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Utopia Talk / Movie Talk / star wars tfa part 2
The Children
Member
Mon Dec 28 14:08:09
palem u stupid brick

"2. There isn't anything indicates it's look who is contacting Rey? How about the fact that she see's Luke in her visions? How about the fact that she dreams every night about the exact location where Luke is? "

>> what the fck does this gotta do with anything. so she sees luke in her vision and that automatically means it was luke who called her. u dumbass, she also saw kylo ren in the vision. so accordin 2 ur dumbass it mustve been kylo who called her. owned

"3. I didn't say Luke was in contact with everyone. I said he was guiding Rey through the force. Something completely plausible in the Star Wars universe. It's not like it's a phone call:
"Yes....Rey? Yes......Can you hear me? This is Luke! I SAID THIS IS LUKE! Ok good, You need to help that BB8 unit....great. Talk to you later." "

>> no it is not possible, brick. not in the way it was shown. extremely poor execution if that was the case. if anything, it was not poor execution coz they did not meant 2 say that luke guided her. get over it.

"Good question, but with plenty of possible answers:
1. She's Luke's daughter/family
2. She's Anakin Skywalker reborn
3. Luke created her through the force
4. Obi-Wan raped Anikan's mother before she died and started another line of hyper-force-sensitive "Skywalkers"

Or any other number of bat-shit, but still completely possible answers."

>> u stupid brick! noone gives a shit what her roots r. u gotta be completely dumb if u actually think she is not related 2 someone important somehow. that was never the discussion.

brick, i knew she was related just watchin her scavenge the star destroyer waaaaayyyyyy before u even seen the movie.

the discussion was never about this. the discussion, my brick, is that even being related or not, u wuld not have visions about something by touchin something u have never seen before. it wuld only make sense, if it was the lightsaber that wanted her 2 see the images. story wise, she touched the lightsaber and it gave her the visions somehow. point being it was the frikkin LIGHTSABER that gave her the visions and it was the frikkin LIGHTSABER that called her.

NOT FRIKKIN ALZHEIMER LUKE that gave her the visions. that was the point, dried fish.

"That's literally the entire point of the movie. You sat there for 2 hours to find out where the hell Luke was lol "

>> no u stupid fck. the point of the DISCUSSION not the movie, is that luke is not the one callin 2 rey and that his whereabouts is therefore fkin irrelevant. u stupid brick.
The Children
Member
Mon Dec 28 14:12:01
dried fish palem, if u werent so dumb and fanboyie u wuldve realized the way leia and han treated rey in the movie as in they knew exactly who she was. the movie hinted many times, but han just never spoke outright 2 her about her past.

it takes a fkin dried fish 2 actually connect rey and the old cast a week after watchin it and thinkin that noone else saw the connection that was heavily hinted at many many many fkin many times in the movie.

ur brain got fried from the dryin in the sun.
The Children
Member
Mon Dec 28 14:17:05
u read 2 fkn much in2 jedis and the force. jedis r glorified policemen. nottin more. they arent gods that can communicate through 1000 miles of lightyears yea. if that was the case they wuldnt have needed any type of communications device.

the emperor wuldnt need holograph stuff whatever 2 communicate with darth vader. they wuldnt have 2 open channels 2 on xwings 2 speak 2 each other.

they r fkin glorified space policemen with special force like powers. 80% of them died without even knowin how they got tricked and killed by shitty stormtrooper clones. they got fkin wiped out, ok.

they cant fkin telepathically talk and speak 2 whoever the fck they want.

The Children
Member
Mon Dec 28 14:24:33
in fact u gotta take that "sensin" with a grain of salt. like luke and vader were shown 2 be able 2 sense eachother NEARBY, not lightyears away.

kylo culd sense Han solo around somewhere but apparently culdnt sense han solo hidin behind him (another shitty plothole).

the only real time we actually saw them communicate with eachother was durin ghost form. obi wan talked 2 luke in a new hope at the very end.

luke taLKED 2 LEIA at the end of empire. but that was shown very clearly how he closed his shitty eyes and called leia leia!

in fact george lucas himself cut a scene from return of the jedi where vader called 2 luke. like luke, luke, join me or whatever. it was a shitty scene that made no sense and he himself cut it out. but more importantly, it was portrayed and shown PERFECTLY that vader was callin luke. with his voice and all.

nowhere in the scene with rey did we the audience get 2 see luke closin his eyes and callin 2 rey. was it even his voice. no. so if it was him callin, it was a shitty poorly portrayed executed just one big fck up of a scene. period. b movie quality. no, fkin c movie quality.

in fact, u r readin 2 fkin much in2 that shitty scene filled with plotholes. it was just that stupid lightsaber callin him. think about it. that was anakins lightsaber. owned by obi wan who never used it. luke used it 4 maybe a year or 2? just time wise between a new hope and untill the end of empire strikes back.

what fkin significance culd u possibly give a piece of rusty ol metal at least 70 years old with no software updates and something that hasnt been used in 35 years. no fkin significance. thats what. its a fkin joke of a scene.

she fkin touched the lightsaber. she didnt touched luke skywalker and got visions. she touched the lightsaber and got visions, dried fish.
The Children
Member
Mon Dec 28 14:26:44
now movin on from that shitty shitstain of a scene 2 real important matter.

snoke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05dT34hGRdg

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Dec 28 14:36:54
maybe some skin flakes from his hand were still on the lightsaber
Palem
Person.
Mon Dec 28 15:42:12
I think I struck a nerve lol
Hood
Member
Mon Dec 28 17:48:47
Saw the movie just before xmas.


---------- spoilers (duh?) -----------

@palem

I don't think Luke was guiding Rey. The force certainly guided her to Luke, but whether it was a natural fate, or a different entity not yet named doing the guiding, no idea. It just did not seem like Luke was very happy or expectant when Rey happened upon him at the end.

@anyone

Was it just me, or did the movie feel incredibly compressed, as if every single planet the movie visited was within the same solar system? I know it surely cannot be, as they had the star map showing luke's trail across half the galaxy. There was never any real travel time. Things happened almost instantly. I can't tell how much time might have passed at all. It doesn't seem unreasonable for this to have all happened in under a week. Literally.

also the star killer was just straight up retarded and OP. Killing 5-6 planets in one shot? Somehow devouring a sun with each fire (yet the sun reignites for a second shot? it didn't look like that planet had any propulsion to it). It was just straight up shit.
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Dec 28 19:52:23
"did the movie feel incredibly compressed, as if every single planet the movie visited was within the same solar system?"

I think they just teleport meow, with the landing crafts just being for dramatic effect ;)
McKobb
Member
Mon Dec 28 19:56:32
They had to cut the transit scenes in the New Zealand mountains :(
Damian DB
Moderator
Mon Dec 28 19:57:10
Hood, that was my main problem with the movie, everything seemed to be right next to each other, but the prequels had the same problem, where travel between planets seemed pretty much instant. the original star wars at least seemed like there was some time spent on space travel.

TC, how you type is more from cell phone short hand than from the internet. I generally just skip reading your posts so as long as I keep doing that I guess we can both deal :)
Hood
Member
Mon Dec 28 20:12:55
"Hood, that was my main problem with the movie, everything seemed to be right next to each other"

Made even worse by the super-hyperspace-laser-death-beam being visible from the rebel planet. Made atrociously awful by the planets visibly exploding from the rebel planet. Like, what the actual shit, star wars?

"the prequels had the same problem, where travel between planets seemed pretty much instant"

Idk, the prequels seemed to at least have a modicum of transportation time to them. They certainly didn't show you the time spent in transit, but I think they accurately conveyed that it took time to get places. With this movie, it seriously seemed like everyone had a Stargate wormhole drive from the final episode of SGA (the instant teleport CC joked about).

And btw, the only reason I say "under a week" is because Rey tried to sell scrap 2 different times and the opening scene was night. Otherwise I'd have said it could have all been in 1 day. And while I would believe Finn/Rey building up a bit of an attachment based on the events of the movie, it definitely didn't seem like they had the time to build it.
earthpig
GTFO HOer
Mon Dec 28 20:48:42
Fair point about travel time, methinks.

Question:

I re-watched IV the other day. Previously when Vader says that Leia was "resistant to the mind probe," I had thought he meant the floating spherical robot with the needle that was zoomed in on. Like it had a mind probe gizmo or something not shown on screen.

Now, in light of VII, I think that Leia was resistant to Vader's personal force mind probe (like Ren has).

Anyone else have that original interpretation, now altered by VII?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Dec 28 21:17:18
that was an IT-O droid and yes, that's a good observation
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Dec 28 21:19:02
Wookieepedia doesn't really have a definite answer..:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mind_probe
They make it sound like it was an interrogation droid thing, but it's only referenced from Episode IV and some random extended universe thing (Old Republic video game).. so.. enough doubt exists that Vader def could have been talking about a force ability.
Damian DB
Moderator
Mon Dec 28 21:20:59
"Idk, the prequels seemed to at least have a modicum of transportation time to them. They certainly didn't show you the time spent in transit, but I think they accurately conveyed that it took time to get place"

re-watch the end of episode 3. Anakin is sent to kill the trade federation leadership, he does so, then it shows obi-wan confront Padme about her relationship with anakin to find him, Anakin finishes killing leadership, Padme goes to find Anakin with obi-wan stowing away on her ship, she arrives on the planet with Anakin still on it, who has no reason to be there. Anakin and Obi-wan fight at the same time Yoda and the emperor fight, both fights end at around the same time, the emperor sends people to get Anakin after he nearly dies in the fight.

but yeah, it was very bad in episodes VII. I think they tried to explain away the starkiller fire by calling it a hyper-lightspeed weapon, but that still doesn't explain why it could be seen. Granted Star Wars has always been more Fantasy than Sci-Fi, it's still needs some laws of physics to be adhered to.
Hood
Member
Mon Dec 28 21:53:05
"re-watch the end of episode 3"

Oh, you might be right in that instance. But they certainly had time passing in other instances (think end of ep2 with the start of the clone wars where obi/ani/padme are in the gladiator arena).

"I think they tried to explain away the starkiller fire by calling it a hyper-lightspeed weapon"

They did. It was still bullshit, which you seem to agree with.
Palem
Person.
Tue Dec 29 11:01:07
@Hood - I could happily accept that Luke isn't the one guiding her. It could most certainly be someone else, or just the force in general (although I'm gonna stick with Luke until either VIII comes out or I get a rock solid explanation of how it's someone else). What I wasn't going to happily accept was "ZOMG TEH SABRE HAS FEELS!"

and I agree they didn't do a very good job of making it feel like these people were traveling across the universe, but I think that was mostly because all of the characters were together for the most part, so it was a little hard to cut away from them for an extended time to get that feeling of being gone for awhile. I think now that the characters have separated a bit, it should get a little better.
The Children
Member
Tue Dec 29 13:00:41
shits extremeley small scaled. think of the locations. how r they different than original planets.

tatooine 2.
endor 2
even the ice planet was a hoth 2.

shits the same coz they ran out of ideas.
they go 2 maz and the rebels and empire r soon on there heels. hmm oke.

the shitty thing about the prequels is how shit the planets r. all the tech r so advanced. and all the planets r so shit. like coruscant they have this mega planet filled with flyin cars and shit and the jedi r patrollin like space cops and they go 2 this bar "jedi business ppl, move along"

jebus. and ofc before that he jumped out the window in2 air, grabbed a frikkin drone, flew through the air littered with flyin cars, let go and landed on shitty obi wan mcgregors car.

now thats some messed up shit right there.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Dec 29 13:06:31
i think they went with the original trilogy to ensure it felt like the original trilogy, and away from the prequels... maybe just did it a bit more than needed :p

too much greenery would've felt like Naboo... and desert & ice worlds just look cool & Star Warzy
The Children
Member
Tue Dec 29 13:12:07
"i think they went with the original trilogy to ensure it felt like the original trilogy, and away from the prequels... maybe just did it a bit more than needed :p "

>> yea and thats why it felt so...boring.

coz basically its a rehash of the first movie with a few of the 3rd movie. shit uve seen 3000 times before.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Dec 29 13:18:15
i enjoyed it over-all :p quit over-analyzing, they put things back on the rails

great to see the Falcon flying again, and Chewbacca got to shoot the main villain :p
The Children
Member
Tue Dec 29 13:19:35
and leia walked sytraight passed through chewie.

they dunt see eye 2 eye, boy. thats the reality. someone fcked up majorly there. quit coverin up 4 these assholes makin billions right now.

they fcked up bad throughout the movie.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Dec 29 13:38:58
she got him killed with her emotional mother crap :p

& Chewie just needed time alone like a real male / wookiee
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Dec 29 21:35:54
"and leia walked sytraight passed through chewie."

Didn't she hug him when they were first reunited? They didn't after Solo died, but time alone makes sense for him, def.
Damian DB
Moderator
Wed Dec 30 00:26:08
"think end of ep2 with the start of the clone wars where obi/ani/padme are in the gladiator arena"

also a bad example, cause you have Mace windu and Yoda on Coruscant, yoda says he's going to talk to the cloners and mace is taking some Jedi after Obi-wan, Yoda arrives with the army of clones within minutes of the Jedi arriving on that planet for the big battle.
Hood
Member
Wed Dec 30 00:52:14
http://editorial.designtaxi.com/news-starwars0702/big.jpg

Damian, that's actually completely realistic based on this star chart. The extra distance by making a pit stop at Kamino is unlikely to take too much. The only stretch would be that the clone troopers would have had to be aboard transports when yoda arrived and ready for takeoff almost immediately.

Then again, a simple phone ahead would give those clones enough time to board ships.
Cherub Cow
Member
Wed Dec 30 19:36:32
"Then again, a simple phone ahead would give those clones enough time to board ships."

Hmm, not sure about that. Yoda might call, but the person on the receiving end might not want to remove the stormtroopers from their original packaging, because they'd depreciate in value almost immediately .. would probably delay things to decide whether it's worth it :/
hood
Member
Thu Dec 31 08:42:19
They were clone troopers, not stormtroopers! Clone troopers have a fairly consistent value due to how easy they are to replace.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 31 14:11:21
some info on deleted scenes and abandoned ideas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYLZhDTITr0
Cherub Cow
Member
Thu Dec 31 22:06:54
"George Lucas' ideas, that Disney actually bought ... which included that the new leads were in their early teens"

Oh no! D: .. it could have been so much worse D: D: D:

..
"They were clone troopers, not stormtroopers!"

Oops! My error!
Yeah they overproduced those so they'll be worth about as much as beanie babies. No delay, then! ;D
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 01 00:29:52
How Solo sees Chewy:
http://i.imgur.com/yDRON95.jpg
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jan 01 18:13:22
you wouldn't want to watch annoying children outwitting the enemy?
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 01 20:25:20
For some reason I think that that would change the movie for the worse ;D
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 01 23:01:15
..almost starting to be convinced by the "Rey is Obi-Wan's granddaughter" theory..
(video tw posted; "Rey Kenobi Theory"):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjFfdrTJrQ

Similar article on the subject that cites the video and makes some more arguments:
http://medium.com/@benostrower/rey-is-a-kenobi-362b5af09849#.ef0lqzz2g

TLDR version of the theory:
- Rey, like Obi-Wan, seems really good with and preferential towards the Jedi mind trick (may be an inherited trait)
- Rey sneaking around the [new death star] just like Obi-Wan in Episode IV, wearing similar clothes and such
- Rey lived as a hermit, just like Obi-Wan
- Anakin's lightsaber was possessed primarily by Obi-Wan, so Obi-Wan may have called to Rey through it (Luke held it only a while, losing it in Episode V)..
- "Narrative symmetry"; Obi-Wan sort of teaches Luke, now Luke would [sort of?] teach a Kenobi
- Rey/Ren duel meant as a repeat of Obi-Wan/Vader, this time with "Obi-Wan" (Rey) beating "Vader" (Ren)

..
It seems like a sentiment in the links is that Abrams has indeed copy/pasted the original trilogy but will just make informational variations to the original dramatic arc. So right meow audiences should think that Rey is Luke's daughter (though it was never expressly stated), but the "omgs, Darth Vader is Luke's father" moment in Episode VIII would have to unsettle that, which could be done with "Obi-Wan was your grandfather" logic of some kind ... but I'm almost wondering if it's enough to be Obi-Wan's granddaughter... and would they even take the time to explain a twice-removed lineage? They'd have to explain Obi-Wan's affairs and explain his child's affairs, and Abrams is avoiding complexity..

One thing I read in a comment from the written article above was that maybe they'll go for Obi-Wan being reincarnated as Rey. That comment didn't elaborate, but if that were the case, Rey wasn't called through the lightsaber by Luke or Obi-Wan but may have *remembered* the lightsaber, provoking the visions. That remembering could be why Rey heard all of those voices instead of one clear voice like Luke's (remembering many moments, as opposed to having one person specifically call to her). Reincarnation would also be why Rey seems characteristically similar to Obi-Wan and why she was able to wield the force so quickly. Seeking out Luke could also be to further remember that she is Obi-Wan. This could be like fulfillment of "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" .. though that line could be said about lots of random things.

Anyhow, resurrection of Obi-Wan sounds nice but I'm not even totally convinced of it. It might be more convincing that Rey is a resurrected Anakin, because Anakin would get a kind of second chance to balance the force... though that itself would be very very similar to "The Matrix" "one" logic, and might undermine the Obi-Wan similarities. So maybe it's a combined resurrection? Multiple spirits in one body?
Hmm.. might be getting silly, but Abrams was addicted to reading fan comments when he was doing Lost, and the show changed as a direct result of him trying to "fake out" the viewer predictions (personally I think he was just stealing his favorites), so all of the major fan theories could evaporate anyways.
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 01 23:07:50
Oh, under the Obi-Wan resurrection model, the "omgs, Darth Vader is Luke's father" moment in Episode VIII might be "omgs, Luke! You, Yoda, Anakin, and Obi-Wan all imprinted memories of the force onto my poor brain?? I was a person with an identity and you *made* me this resurrected tool to fight Snoke??"
(like maybe they had to steal a body like Professor X in order to resurrect Obi-Wan, or else Rey would just resist the idea of her mind being someone else's)
Hood
Member
Sat Jan 02 02:48:33
Maybe Luke and Obi Wan got it goin on during their time on the falcon and Rey is a male-male birth made possible by the force.

And somehow was born many years after obi wan died... A hibernation birth.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sat Jan 02 19:26:00
I would totes not be surprised by some transsexualism being inserted into the franchise :D .. already it looks like Finn and Poe were supposed to have a little chemistry, so Disney/Abrams may be trying to bring gender topics to a mainstream movie
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Jan 02 21:19:12
i think just Obi-wan's granddaughter :p nothing complicated
The Children
Member
Sun Jan 03 02:24:42
granddaughter seem more plausible then daughter imo. obi wan was like 70 years ol in a new hope. and that was like 35 years ago. seem kinda perverty if it was his daughter.

imo my own theory, she is not related 2 any of them. she is created like anakin was.
Palem
Person.
Sun Jan 03 09:53:49
@CC - It's a Disney movie. No.

@TC - You mean by the force? That's bullshit and you're stupid. Shimi Skywalker got drunk one night and got raped and that's how she got pregnant because that's how biology works. What is this force bullshit you're talking about? Name me one time before Episode 1 that the force was used to create a person? Yea, fuck you and your force nonsense bullshit.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Jan 03 19:04:18
"It's a Disney movie. No."

So instead will they just hide penises in the background of every shot? ;D
Palem
Person.
Sun Jan 03 22:00:27
Yes. See it in 3D. Nothing but dicks lol
The Children
Member
Mon Jan 04 07:55:26
"@TC - You mean by the force? That's bullshit and you're stupid. Shimi Skywalker got drunk one night and got raped and that's how she got pregnant because that's how biology works. What is this force bullshit you're talking about? Name me one time before Episode 1 that the force was used to create a person? Yea, fuck you and your force nonsense bullshit. "

>> mitochlondria or whatever gathered 2gether and thats how anakin skywalker was born.


mitochlondria bullshit is superior 2 ur "luke called rey like a telepathic god from 20000 lightyears away and guided her" theory.

Palem
Person.
Mon Jan 04 09:31:43
I still don't understand how communicating from beyond the grave is somehow more believable than communicating across distance. Must be that 7 year old mentality you've got *shrugs*
The Children
Member
Mon Jan 04 09:52:33
thats coz ur a dried fish

Palem
Person.
Mon Jan 04 12:44:44
Leave to TC to talk about fish in a thread about Star Wars.
hood
Member
Mon Jan 04 13:31:10
"I still don't understand how communicating from beyond the grave is somehow more believable than communicating across distance."

They're both equally believable in star wars. Obi wan talked to Luke after death. Luke called out to Leia at the end of empire. So yeah, one isn't more or less believable than the other, they are both quite valid.
Palem
Person.
Mon Jan 04 21:56:34
Don't tell TC that.
Hood
Member
Mon Jan 04 22:01:25
I generally don't bother with him.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Jan 05 00:33:54
"Obi wan talked to Luke after death"

I wonder if we can get some Lucas midichlorian explanation for this though ;D
..like, remember at the end of Episode VI where Luke saw the Anakin/Obi-Wan/Yoda ghosts, then Leia walks up and doesn't see them? Should we think that Anakin/Obi-Wan/Yoda piggy-back on Luke's brain? Like they only exist in his mind? Because yes, they may be ghosts, but *do* they have range? *Could* they move across the galaxy by themselves, or does Luke have to bring them with him in his own psychotic mind? In the episodic canon, has anyone but Luke seen a force ghost? And Rey, *did* she communicate with Luke across the galaxy?.. or was she imprinted with Luke's psychosis off-screen and that's why she's having these delusions or memories? Is the *house* haunted, or do people bring the haunting **with them**?? D:

And sort of how Lucas called force enablers "midi-chlorian" after the real-life mitochondria organelles, maybe we can call peeps with Luke's condition schidi-phrenians after schizophrenics ;p

(for reals though, I know that seeing/hearing the ghosts probably has more to do with being force sensitive or the ghosts having enough force power to will someone to see them and that the force has been said in Episode IV to connect everyone across the galaxy with its magic magics)
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Jan 05 02:16:53
Star Wars lol from the Onion :D

"Man Who Saw ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ 6 Times Over Holidays Thought It Was Pretty Good"
[Onion News in Brief]
http://www...e-awakens-6-times-over-h-52110
"CHICAGO—Stressing that the movie “definitely had some cool moments,” local man Jeff Feitel, who saw Star Wars: The Force Awakens six times over the holidays, told reporters Monday that he thought it was pretty good. “I had a few issues with some stuff, but overall I thought it was a fun movie,” said Feitel, who over the past two weeks has cumulatively spent 14 hours and $87 attending screenings of the film, including multiple 3D viewings, a midnight showing, and an IMAX screening at 8:50 a.m. “I honestly thought the lightsaber battles were just so-so, but the reliance on practical effects was kind of awesome. And it lays out a pretty compelling mythology for the next couple movies, too.” At press time, Feitel was reportedly purchasing a ticket to see The Force Awakens again that evening."
hood
Member
Tue Jan 05 09:05:29
Re force ghosts:

I believe they were a thing in the animated series, clone wars.

Also, with that show being canon, all sorts of wonky shit is fair game in the star wars verse.
Palem
Person.
Tue Jan 05 14:09:20
I'm not sure about a force ghost, but Qui-Gon most definitely communicated with Yoda from beyond the grave, and I believe he communicated with Obi-Wan as well (unless Yoda taught him some stuff before they parted ways and then finished the training communicating from Dagobah, but that seems risky since they were trying to stay completely hidden)
hood
Member
Tue Jan 05 14:20:23
Well qui-Gon talking to yoda was in ep3. For sure. But I do think force ghosts were in the second half of the clone wars cartoon.
Palem
Person.
Tue Jan 05 14:38:13
I don't know anything about the cartoons other than my buddy Nick made me watch one of the movies and it was just god awful and we made fun of him for making us do that for the rest of the day.


Actually, I do something else about the cartoon. Apparently Darth Maul was alive, which is dog shit.
hood
Member
Tue Jan 05 14:58:38
Yeah, maul being alive was a bit excessive. And that movie he probably made you watch is indeed awful. But the series is a nice, light hearted star wars adventure. And it definitely paints anikans fall much better than the movies ever did. You actually get to see how his motivations to do good slowly become darker and darker. And by episode 3, you aren't terribly surprised that he's willing to kill younglings.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Jan 05 18:48:41
Stupid Clone series ruining a perfectly good theory! ;D
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 08 01:18:17
Oh no! New fan theory! D:
http://imgur.com/gallery/LgXmT
hood
Member
Fri Jan 08 09:05:29
So I had a thought (cower in fear!).

The motivation behind kylo was Vader. Or more appropriately, Vader's helmet. And with the way it was portrayed, the helmet itself almost seemed to give off an aura of evil. Like the artifact itself was somehow exerting a dark side force influence by proxy.

The motivation behind rey is Luke. Or more appropriately, Luke's light saber. (However, didn't he lose that saber when his hand was cut off? I mean, he had a GREEN saber in return, and Vader specifically comments about constructing a new saber. How did his blue one come reappear? Or is this a 3rd saber? But it realistically shouldn't be a 3rd one, they showed the battle on cloud city with Vader from Empire.)

But this leaves us at a disparity. Vader is dead and kylo must look to a different master to teach him. Luke is alive to teach rey. It doesn't make sense for Rey's inspiration to be alive and well when kylo has to work with a proxy. That's an improper balance. In favor of the light. And the entire premise of star wars is that the dark side is overpowering and that the light must fight back to achieve balance.

Thus, to make a true test, a true balance of force, obi wan (or maybe someone else, someone not Luke) would have to be Rey's motivation, making Luke the proxy.
Paramount
Member
Fri Jan 08 12:01:45
I went to see Star Wars today, in 3D at an IMAX theater. Damn, let's just say I was not disappointed. I was quite impressed actually. It was a good movie. Didn't expect it to be this good.

I'm not gonna (over)analyze it or anything like that. I leave that to the pros. I just enjoyed a really good movie. It feels like Star Wars is back on track now.

It isn't easy to say this, being a man, but I almost started to cry three times. First time was when they were fighting at Takodana and when they said: "The Resistance is coming" and then all the X-Wing fighters sweeps in. Dayum... that was beautiful. It was like being back to the New Hope again.

The second time I almost cried was when that jedi girl, Rey, was fighting Kylo and when their lightsabers were in a lockdown. But then you could see that the force is strong in her and she fought back and defeated him. Dayum... what a girl. I almost started to cry because she was so good.

The third time was when the the jedi girl reached out the lightsaber to Luke Skywalker at the end. Damn. It was an emotional strong scene.

Overall a beautiful and well done movie. I definitely need to see it again. Rey was best.

Plus points goes to Finn for telling Kylo to "Come and get it" when Kylo says that the lightsaber belongs to him.

Han Solo. I think he (and Leia) had rather weak roles, and their lines and acting were not that good. Let's hope Luke is better. Not sure what I think of that they killed off Han Solo. Maybe Harrison Ford demanded it to make sure that he didn't need to play in the other two movies.

But I think it was wrong to kill Han Solo. What about Chewie? Chewie is supposed to be together with Han Solo. It would have been better if Han Solo just ran away and disappeared, hiding from bounty hunters. Because then we would at least know that he was still alive somewhere in the universe.
Palem
Person.
Fri Jan 08 12:17:33
@hood - It's the same lightsaber that Luke loses when his hand is cut off. They made mention of questioning how Kaz even got the lightsaber, so I'm pretty sure it will be addressed in one of the next two movies.

@Paramount - They are much more invested in Kylo Ren moving forward than Han. Han (and Leia) are expendable characters used as a device to further Kylo's story. In that sense killing Han off makes sense.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jan 08 18:30:15
'Vader' means father, 'Rey' means king... so she could be a transgender female king of somewhere
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 08 20:35:35
Yay! Support for the transgender character! ;D
Transgender Obi-Wan would be hilarious, I think :D

..
[Palem]: "They made mention of questioning how Kaz even got the lightsaber, so I'm pretty sure it will be addressed in one of the next two movies."

Exortly. I've read that it was recovered by service droids in some extended story.. but beyond that, in the canon they can say that anyone in Cloud City recovered it from the droids — and maybe not even anyone special, so long as it was sold to Maz eventually.

..
[Paramount]: "I almost started to cry three times."

Glad that none of the three times were at Han's death! :D

..
[hood]: "the helmet itself almost seemed to give off an aura of evil. Like the artifact itself was somehow exerting a dark side force influence by proxy."

Hmm.. Maybe, but would it depend on how Vader's helmet was recovered? Like, if it was simply recovered and Ren bought it versus if Snoke or someone purposefully force-imbued it and gave it to Ren?.. because as is, would the helmet still be evil, given Vader's change in Episode VI?

Actually.. just read up on Sith Alchemy:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_alchemy
..and it looks possible that Vader's helmet (and maybe Ren's too) could have been made as dark force items (like they channel the dark side). Wonder if Abrams/Disney would sample from those ideas.. if so it might explain the lightsaber too, because it would have been created by a light-side Anakin or something, and so would channel light-side influences..
Hood
Member
Fri Jan 08 22:47:28
"because as is, would the helmet still be evil, given Vader's change in Episode VI?"

With the amount of evil he did during his time wearing it? Absolutely. It's certainly canon that objects can have dark or light ... tendencies? I wouldn't be surprised if the aura of vader, if you will, still resonated within the helmet. It would partially explain why kylo talked to it almost as if it were his real master.
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 08 23:02:05
Sounds legit! I mean, Vader was only good for like, 10 minutes, so :D
Hood
Member
Sat Jan 09 00:44:14
In fact, I recall a scene where kylo says that the light side is so tempting within him, and it's through vader's promise or example or whatever that he believes the dark side to be more powerful. As if it is vader's influence, potentially via the helmet, that keeps him corrupt.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sat Jan 09 01:00:18
If Abrams/Disney is using even a few of these ideas then 8 and 9 should be good :D
Palem
Person.
Sun Jan 10 14:28:24
Abrams isn't directing 8.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Jan 10 17:45:16
Oh kewl! So it'll be just like how George Lucas directed the most mediocre of the Star Wars original trilogy before giving it to better directors (potentially)! :D

Rian Johnson hasn't done much, but Looper was well-directed, so at least no cause for concern..
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 22 16:40:07
Saw Episode 7 a second time, except this time went for IMAX 3D... that made it more entertaining in the random action scenes, but otherwise its bad moments were still very noticeable.. especially the end. I get that they threw Mark Hamill into the end as fan service ("we demand that all of the original cast be present!"), but they really should have just ended the movie with Rey leaving the rebel base to go look for Luke. That ending scene on the cliff was just far too cheesy (very, *very* poorly directed with the cut backs and the pan-around shot where no one was moving) and did not add anything to the story...

Also, I paid more attention to Rey's vision this time, and my interpretation changed a little (or to TLDR: probably didn't learn anything new ;D ..). The first voice that Rey heard while above the stairs sounded like it could have been her own as a child (a small girl's voice). They show visuals of Kylo Ren's betrayal of Luke (Ren standing in the circle of angry trainees), Luke going to R2 (presumably to give R2 the map), and then a ship leaving [Jakku?], with [junkyard dealer Unkar Plutt?] holding a little girl's arm (probably Rey's, of course)...

Put together it looks like Rey herself witnessed all of these events, so she may have been with Luke while he trained Ren. The age difference works, because Daisy Ridley (Rey) was born 1992, and Adam Driver (Ren) was born 1983.. so Ren wouldn't recognize her outright (she would have been very small) and Rey would probably not remember much of their meeting.

Still! Even if all that's true, I'm not sure that Rey's simply being there undermines any of the other theories. Like, she could have just been one of many peeps brought to train under Luke and was not necessarily his daughter. And connections to the lightsaber can be read in a number of ways, so... whatever

..
Also paid attention to Kylo Ren talking to Darth Vader's helmet! He specifically says something like, "show me again [some darkside stuff]," so both Ren and Rey do seem to be drawing some kind of force alchemy energy from their respective artifacts... blerg. None of this was new, sorry ;D
Hood
Member
Fri Jan 22 17:01:26
It's confirmation though. And since it's still in theaters, can't just go forward and backward to verify everything (legally, at least!).
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 22 17:39:08
Truthies! I think a lot will be clarified once they release it on DVD/Streaming.. for me that would be especially because of subtitles.. I couldn't even hear/understand some of the lines, like they were mumbled or details were covered really quickly..

And don't think I'll see it a third time in theater! :D .. too much other stuff out right meow. Have you seen it again?
Hood
Member
Fri Jan 22 18:05:42
I have not. Once the local cheap theater picks it up, though, I'm sure it'll be worth $2.50 to see a second time.

Also, ep8 got delayed from summer '17 to december '17.
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 22 18:08:49
...that's too far away! :(
Yeah that IMAX ticket was like almost $17 so I'm definitely not paying into this game anymore! ;p
Hood
Member
Tue Jan 26 17:05:46
I had another thought on the Ren vs Rey thing.

The artifact that Ren worships, that he draws his motivation from, is the helmet of Vader. While the artifact that Rey draws motivation from is Luke's light saber. The saber that Obi Wan held on to for years. But also Anakin Skywalker's saber.

So it's possible that Ren and Rey represent the internal struggle of Anakin/Vader himself, both with the motivation of a different side of the force, but through the same general conduit. And with Vader being the ultimate force user, the chosen one and the single most powerful force being in the galaxy, this influence would certainly make a pair of powerful and intertwined disciples.

Ren, representing the dark side, the side with all of the "power", has a significant head start on Rey. This makes sense, as the entire premise of the setting is that the dark side always manages to have the upper hand. In e4-6, it was obvious. The massive, powerful Empire controls the entire galaxy and are on the verge of wiping out the rebellion. In e1-3 (and the clone wars series), the dark side again has the upper hand, through the maneuvering of the galactic senate and creating strife via civil war. The dark side controlled both sides of this conflict and ultimately won.

So now, when the struggle of the force, now channeled through the chosen one, Anakin/Vader, (via proxy of his light and dark artifacts), the dark side again has the overwhelming power. And the light side must scrounge up as much defense as it can to bring back balance. Rey has to begin from scratch, learn on the fly. And through this context, it could almost explain why Rey was so proficient with the force without training. Just like Vader eventually recognized the light within him and killed off the emperor, so too has the good in his echo ignited in Rey, giving her a surprising amount of "dumb luck" proficiency.

Or, you know, they backed themselves into a corner, so Rey just magically became good. And because Ren had a saber (and what's star wars without a light saber duel!?), they needed a cop out to put a saber in the hands of Rey.
Cherub Cow
Member
Wed Feb 03 20:23:06
I like the idea of Anakin having dark and light artifacts affecting both sides... kind of wonder if Ren could melt that helmet into a saber or something... really hoping for some fun dark/light combination stuff

"A Force Awakens speedrun"
http://i.imgur.com/Ttg8P67.gifv
Palem
Person.
Thu Feb 04 10:31:28
^accurate
The Children
Member
Fri Feb 05 06:08:30
a good stargate sg1 episode > star war fa
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