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Utopia Talk / Movie Talk / The Walking Dead (Cont. 10)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Dec 10 22:46:08
show night! [spoiler talk]

...once again i'm annoyed :p

why didn't Maggie's group scatter into the woods at the first sign of trouble

why didn't Rick stay & shoot Negan through the window

why are the power shifts so dramatic?... have to assume it's going to go the other way next episode

why are both sides working so hard to keep their enemies alive?

are we going to learn what Eugene did? and unless Dwight sold out the lookouts, not sure how they can explain the loss of them (& not sure why you'd tell Dwight about them anyway)
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Dec 12 14:19:05
Previous Thread:
http://www...hread=78846&time=1512534162734

..
@S8E08: "How It's Gotta Be"

Aww :'( .. poor [character hidden for spoiler purposes since this comment is still pretty close to the top of the thread]. I thought that he must have been bitten during that fight when he was helping transport the new guy, but that scene ended with him being relieved, so they hid that pretty well... it explains why he was willing to die via Negan, and he probably *was* being honest during that wall conversation even though he knew that his plan was going forward... That ending scene was sad :'( .. and I'm sure his note to Rick will be emotional too.
..And more chiaroscuro in that ending tunnel scene; it looked like a Rembrandt painting. Not sure if they had any specific reference in mind, but Judith's outline sort of seemed like the little girl from "The Night Watch" ( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/The_Nightwatch_by_Rembrandt.jpg ).

Good job to Enid for firing without looking :| .. not out of character or anything, but it was still a stupid move. Our post-apocalyptic hellscape survivors need better training! ;p

..
"why didn't Maggie's group scatter into the woods at the first sign of trouble"

Yeah that was dumb. That was supposed to be an "element of surprise" situation where they were so caught off guard by the Saviors having escaped that they didn't know what to do, but for that to make sense the Saviors should have swarmed from both sides of the road, not just from behind them. When Jesus handed over his weapon I was like, "Really?? No fight here?" Still, I guess it can be justified because it may also have been some more regression from feeling hopeless at a big tide change moment (a repeat of their first meeting with Negan in the woods). Maggie was the one who should have given orders to attack, but she froze, maybe because she was reminded of how powerless she felt watching Glenn die. She's still trying to rise above that trauma... so I'd sort of give it to the show writers on that one. Maggie needs to be the type of person who won't freeze anymore, but she's not there yet. Killing that Savior (re-living her trauma and taking control of it) means that she will get there.

..
"why didn't Rick stay & shoot Negan through the window"

True! Negan only had Lucille, so Rick could have fired off a few rounds there. It would have been a risk running out of ammo and being left unarmed though.. hmm..

..
"why are both sides working so hard to keep their enemies alive?"

It makes sense from a punishment perspective! The whole thing they've driven in here has been the idea of traumatizing people into obeying by offering public spectacles of brutal punishment. Negan even had that speech about killing "the right people at the right time." It's about theatrics and visibility, not just killing enemies. They can't just kill the King or Rick and be done with him, they need to kill him in front of his people so that they shatter his image (make him just meat and kill any exulted idea of him).

Pretty sure I mentioned this before, but I think these writers have been sampling directly from Foucault's "Discipline/Surveil and Punish" — lots of emphasis on making examples of just a few deaths in order to control the masses. And on the other side, Rick wants to kill Negan himself but maybe only to overcome the spectacle trauma that Negan gave him (Rick refusing to be controlled by brutality). Maggie sort of understood that to overcome Negan's hold that she'd have to execute Negan peeps, but she probably made it too quick by simply shooting that prisoner (maybe not brutal enough?), though that death was at least surprising enough for the remaining prisoners that they may fall in line. It seems like the only way out of Negan's control is by making people unafraid of brutality and horror (e.g., Rick's speech on top of that car about how they're trying to build a better world than Negan's 'control via trauma' one). That was starting to appear with the Kingdom peeps refusing to cooperate and also with that Savior Lieutenant being reluctant in his duties (again). The Kingdom peeps hate the executioner more than they fear the punishment, so the public spectacle has already started losing its power.

Aside about that Kingdom scene: I get that they're showing that Muslim woman ("Nabila") to really push how diverse post-apocalyptic survivors can be (they keep focusing on her in the Kingdom scenes — not just in this episode either), and whatever, that hasn't broken the story at all.. but.. I take issue with her being so fat ;D .. cardio is a key survivor ingredient, and I doubt that she has it. It was also pretty unbelievable that she was able to punch a Savior in the chest and disarm him. She doesn't look like a fat but strong person, just a fat person. Tara's weight was already an issue, but Nabila is pushing it to the limits. Maybe outside the protection of the Kingdom walls she'll finally get run down by zombies ;p .. and apparently Alanna Masterson (Tara) has defended herself against "body shaming", but I'm not talking about IRL shaming of celebrities and public figures for being fat. Like sure, I understand that many people get fat when having children. What I'm saying is that within the show physics those fat people shouldn't somehow be given capabilities beyond their body types. Anyways..

..
"are we going to learn what Eugene did?"

You mean to get the Saviors the upper hand? They revealed that he manufactured a bunch of bullets so that the Saviors could go full-auto on the zombies (that was his scene last episode where he was listening to gunfire while crying because he knew the consequences for Rick's group), and we also know that he led the rest of the zombies away with an air horn contraption (another RC plane?), so I'm not sure how much else there is to know.

..
"unless Dwight sold out the lookouts, not sure how they can explain the loss of them (& not sure why you'd tell Dwight about them anyway"

You mean the lookouts from the first episode of the season? Dwight would simply know about them because he's involved with security.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Dec 12 15:28:02
i may have misunderstood some of Eugene's part... he said he needed his machines so i assumed he would be doing the bullet making -after- they got rid of the zombies, also i don't recall air horns at all (but my memory is bad & i'm not always paying attention :)

by 'lookouts': it sounded like they had been monitoring the saviour building from all sides (Rick radio'd to north,south,east,west for reports, and no one there) and no one reported them escaping their situation

i think Maggie killed the guy to stuff him in the box as warning to the invaders coming (rather than to get those people in line necessarily)

as to the preservation of life... trying to keep everyone around isn't working :p i'm a bit concerned about Rick deciding to make nice w/ Negan or something to honor Coral... there needs to be mass death!
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Dec 12 19:33:14
Negan *has* been showing that he's got a soft side, so some kind of alliance wouldn't be totally out of the question. I would prefer the mass death too, though :(

..
"also i don't recall air horns at all"
Oh that was during one of the scenes where Maggie was talking to that Negan lieutenant. Loud music starts playing in the distance, and he talks about how Saviors have been leading the herd away. I thought the phrase "air horns" was used, but I might have to re-watch the episode for that :D

..
"i think Maggie killed the guy to stuff him in the box as warning to the invaders coming (rather than to get those people in line necessarily)"
Same difference! ;) .. either way she's using execution as an example/warning.

..
"by 'lookouts': it sounded like they had been monitoring the saviour building from all sides (Rick radio'd to north,south,east,west for reports, and no one there) and no one reported them escaping their situation"

Oh yeah! That was weird. You'd think there would be some info on that... I guess they figure that once the Saviors finished killing the walkers that they were able to unload on the lookouts with no problem. I think Morgan was one of the lookouts, and he was pictured maybe about to help the King, so at least he got away..
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Dec 12 19:41:12
yeah I recall the music playing or something, but seems like they need something to explain how it worked specifically... and how it foiled the surveillance

they certainly had a lot of faith in the lookouts given how easily their own home bases fell
The Children
Member
Mon Dec 25 13:46:23
when is last episode so i can finally watch this shit again
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 25 22:35:08

***** new episode was tonight *****


SPOILER: carl slowly dies for 85 mins (not as entertaining as it sounds)... and Morgan executes his new signature move
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Feb 26 21:40:55
@S8E09: "Honor"

:'(
Much crying for this episode.. lots of emotional Carl scenes :'( .. a full hour for his death was a nice send-off too, like him soaking in his last living moments, making sure that the new guy wouldn't get blamed, passing the torch to Judith and.. to everyone, really. And more of that Renaissance-inspired cinematography in the church scene. Also jarring at first how they mixed his death scenes with Morgan's ultraviolence, but that of course started to smooth into their point about Morgan himself needing to see a future beyond all the killing. I wonder if Carl wrote him a letter or if Morgan was too distant.. looks like there will be more Carl via all of his messages. Enid's will probably be sad :(
Always morbid to compose your own death will, but it's one of the realest of the reals for moments: crushing illusions.

A nice sort of twist that the visions of the future were Carl's (or originated with him anyways), though the editing in the previous episodes now just means that he successfully passed on those visions to Rick.. and the reveal of Rick being shot as the explanation for the red-eyed foreshadowing/flash-forward scenes might mean that Negan won't get to be part of that utopia after all ;p (assuming that Rick tried to meet with Negan to stop the conflict, was shot (maybe even by Negan himself? Negan usually prefers hand weapons, so maybe not), and if Rick recovers then peeps will have to start dying again ;p

So now I'm just interested in the pacing! Like it would be cool if Rick were shot next episode (or the episode after, since I think they're going to Enid and Aaron's story next episode) so that there would be time left in the season for fallout, but maybe instead it'll be the season finale and he'll be recovered by season 9...

Good episode, I thought! Glad it's back in season :D
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Feb 27 21:31:21
i fast-forwarded through Carl :p
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Mar 06 00:38:11
"i fast-forwarded through Carl :p"

But he wrote you a letter! ;D

..
@@S8E10: "The Lost and the Plunderers"

Poor Michonne, trying to keep Carl's memory alive :(

Loving Simon's impatience and deterioration :D

Poor Jadin :( .. good rapid development for her there. She started using personal pronouns again and everything :) ... Looked like "Another Brick In The Wall" Pink Floyd reference too (all of her people walking into a meat grinder). The simple metaphor was probably just that her peeps' decision to follow her meant that they were just bricks in her plan, and her plan just got them all killed; their willingness to have their behavior codified (like Floyd's brainwashed students) meant dying by that same system/behavior. Becoming walkers and marching into the grinder just made that reality more clear and depressing, as metaphors do.. and for her on a personal level she got to see that metaphor first hand — a big summation of her leadership failures for her to reflect upon before taking vengeance. And the gore splashing on her painting was nice too.. like she was "painting" her own version of utopia with the lives of others.

Nice speech by Negan at the end. That reflects well off of the grinder walk too, since Rick's leadership really has gotten a lot of people killed. It's a pretty convincing argument except that people may live unsafely under Rick, but of course there's less fear and work-slavery with him than there is with Negan. Ending the episode like that could at least mean that Rick will mull things over and consider peace after all. Looks like he was wearing a grey shirt in that talk scene, and the flash-forward where he's been shot had him wearing a blue shirt, so it may be an episode or two before they discuss peace plans?
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Mar 06 00:40:22
"like she was "painting" her own version of utopia with the lives of others."
(her attempted utopia becoming a dystopia or just becoming macabre when it was brought back to reality. The gore splashing and her using personal pronouns both being her facing that reality)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Mar 06 22:38:38
i was disgusted by another 'you gotta give us all your weapons again'... 'okie dokie'

luckily Simon broke w/ Negan's plans and mixed it up... was starting to feel like i was in a repeating hell :p

and i too was confused as to why trash woman spoke English fine now

i hope Rick keeps it real... Negan's speech was ok except the part where he says keeping everyone safe is why he had to kill Rick's friends or something, didn't quite flow
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Mar 06 23:16:46
i mean i guess we're supposed to assume the speech thing was some coping mechanism or something... but perhaps the actress just forgot
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Mar 12 15:59:14
"i was disgusted by another 'you gotta give us all your weapons again'... 'okie dokie'"

That did at least make sense for the junkyard peeps. They're total push-overs, so it wasn't a surprise that they'd surrender even while fully armed.

..
"i mean i guess we're supposed to assume the speech thing was some coping mechanism or something... but perhaps the actress just forgot"

I think that would fall squarely on the writers as a decision to have her character finally drop pretenses — doubtful that the actress would have just winged it there and that the director allowed a mistake to be filmed that way. Jadin thought that she'd made a new society that would be immune to the world, but she just found out otherwise.

..
@S8E11: "Dead or Alive or"

lol. All of Gabriel's annoying religious tones were worth it when the doctor got shot in front of him :D

Enid's reaction to Carl.. :'(

And yay! Time for some chemical warfare ;D
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Mar 12 22:36:14
i was mostly joking about trash woman's speech, but yeah, it'd be the writers who forgot :p

Gabriel missed opportunities to mockingly tell the doc he should've had more faith (bear trap, dying)

i assume they aren't going to claim getting guts on you turns you since they wipe that stuff on themselves all the time... what are you guessing Negan is planning?
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Mar 13 04:30:59
Yeah while the doc screamed in pain in the bear trap they should have shown Gabriel putting his hand on the doctor's head in a priestly way and saying something like, "God is all around us" or "God has shown you the path" XD

"what are you guessing Negan is planning?"
Since it sounds like Negan wants to infect peeps as a weapon, and Eugene suggested that they use trébuchets while the Saviors get their ammo replenished.. maybe spike balls covered in zombie gore will be launched over the Hilltop walls? Or maybe they wrap zombie heads in barb wire and launch *those*?? :D :D
That might be it for real. Have zombie heads trying to bite people while they roll around. Barb wire giving people little cuts and infecting them. Should be a fun siege :D
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Mar 13 11:35:05
i dunno seems like these mechanisms need more clearly defined :p ... i don't recall people worrying about sores or scratches when smearing themselves in stuff

& everyone's infected already so it's inside already... biting has been required so far, right? (to trigger early)

i suppose we can wait to see what they actually do :p
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Mar 13 15:07:30
"i don't recall people worrying about sores or scratches when smearing themselves in stuff ... biting has been required so far, right?"

I don't remember if anyone at all has turned from just being scratched by a zombie's hands, but that might be why Negan was getting total coverage on his bat: he rubbed it on the zombie's chest and teeth, so some of that gore would have to do some zombie-fication to a living person (he was making that gore in effect the same thing as a bite). But his bat leads to why I think they'll need to use barb wire on their projectiles.. with the bite-to-turn situation they can't just get people covered in zombie blood, they'll probably need something that will break the skin too. So zombie blood + barbed projectiles = infected Hilltoppers ;D

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Mar 20 00:04:27
-- new episode talk --

i'm still discontent over this blood-dipped weapon thing :p ...i demand more caution used by Depp in the other show now

seems they are working on changing the villain from Negan to the mustache guy so i guess that means Negan may become part of the team as Coral wanted... which would be weird so hopefully not...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Mar 20 00:11:42

...also, hopefully that's the last Rick/Negan combat w/ both escaping... a lot of weird behavior in that exchange, but at least the flaming bat & zombies was nice :p
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Mar 20 03:51:52
@S9E12: "The Key"

"...i demand more caution used by Depp in the other show now"

I guess Depp didn't have any large open wounds :p

..
"seems they are working on changing the villain from Negan to the mustache guy"

I was surprised that Simon (mustache guy) survived this episode, so you may be right about him becoming something much bigger. Like I thought he'd get called out by an arriving Negan right in the middle of his speech.. definitely unexpected for me that Jadin somehow managed to be at the right place and abduct Negan, which stopped Simon's bashing for the moment. And Dwight was caught off guard by Simon's language switch (the "move on" thing turning out to be "[wipe them out and] move on" — that truck ride with Dwight and Simon was really enjoyable, btw.. Dwight not knowing the subtext of Simon having just killed all the trash peeps.. and Simon evolving into this belligerent killer ready to stand up to Negan).

..But I wonder if Simon will last even without Negan around. Dwight seemed to realize that he was personally responsible for making the Hilltop's situation even worse by replacing Negan with Simon, so Dwight killing Simon before the battle could make sense... but Simon already gave an agreeable order to the rest of the Saviors, so killing Simon might make no sense for Dwight (the attack would still happen).. in which case Simon lives longer.. except that the attack can't be successful because the Hilltop can't just get wiped out right now... that would be easy to write away if the Saviors return to base for a weapons switch, but it looks like they'll just continue to hilltop without interruption.. shit.. no idea! Next episode should be fun :D

That lady who wanted records and food was immediately annoying, and I hope that she dies really fucking soon. Her little side-kicks were also annoying, and I hope they die even sooner. Not sure who they think they're fooling with the intentionally deepened voices and the dumb sunglasses.

Also, Katelyn Nacon (Enid) really flopped in that scene with Michonne and Maggie in the Hilltop house.. terrible acting, yet they gave her a long take (long takes usually get reserved for better actors, which is why Emma Stone was poison to 2014's "Birdman"). Her steps forward, her breath before lines.. just bad. They were trying to communicate that Enid was getting aggressive enough with her want to kill/rob the new lady that Michonne felt that it was necessary to disarm Enid, but Nacon just couldn't get that scene to work. Really disappointing because after Carl her character had the most reason to be passionate right now.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Mar 20 03:53:58
"...also, hopefully that's the last Rick/Negan combat w/ both escaping..."

Oh yeah! Totes :D .. especially because Negan once again made a window exit ;D
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Mar 20 17:50:58
will be quite hard to explain Jadin finding Negan, not sure if they'll try :p Rick did make a lot of noise w/ his wild shooting and then there was the burning car... but still coming across an uneaten yet unconscious Negan is a stretch... especially since Rick couldn't even find him when talking to him :p
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Mar 20 20:28:36
It looks like she must have surprised Negan when he jumped out of the window and was trying to get to ground level, so she'd have to be watching them and waiting.. but yeah.. don't think they'll show what happened.. they may have made Negan too strong so they had to just hand wave to put him in a captivity situation :/
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Mar 26 22:10:28

-- new episode talk --

my complaining: seems like the zombies made a curious bee-line from the hospital area to the town hall or whatever that was... also one falling down a flight of stairs seems like it would have awoken people... and why must we have a new annoying kid right after losing the other one

and i sense you're not on board w/ my weapon-dipping complaints :p... but what about (what i think is a thing) that people who stabby stab others frequently cut themselves (or at least i know i've seen that on more than one crime type show)... so this phenomenon should have been known imo from all the zombie stabbing
Cherub Cow
Member
Wed Mar 28 01:22:23
@S9E13: "Do Not Send Us Astray"

@[lights getting knocked out moment] and Simon walking out in the open with his peeps:
Are you kidding? D: .. *spacing* people!
..not a particularly well-directed fight. Simon explained his thinking with his "they've run *before*" line, but you still can't line up your people without cover and just approach a defensive position... the only positive there was that the Saviors didn't get completely wiped out for being so stupid.

"seems like the zombies made a curious bee-line from the hospital area to the town hall"
I'd forgive them because it may have just been editing (so it seemed like a direct route) and also because after the attack it looked like everyone alive was huddled together in the house (as opposed to sleeping in the outdoor tents and such), so the walkers were probably attracted by people snoring and doing their sleep coughs ;)
..doesn't explain the bad sentries, though! An alarm should have been sounded well before people started screaming, but it looked like only one guard was on duty (though that guard *was* someone who had been infected)

"also one falling down a flight of stairs seems like it would have awoken people.."
+1
That should have been the moment when everyone woke up.. and if not at that moment then certainly when multiple walkers were walking in snarling.. very strange that a lot of the show crew probably looked at that scene while they were making it yet no one thought that was inconsistent? What?

"and why must we have a new annoying kid right after losing the other one"
+1
..and not even a good actor. Just an annoying idiot. Maybe he'll be Sophia-ed soon to make up for it ;p ... I expected that the really nice Savior/prisoner would say that *he* killed annoying kid's brother so that only he would die rather than the kid executing people for answers, but they avoided that altogether

..
"people who stabby stab others frequently cut themselves"

That could be explained with the depth of the cuts. Deeper cuts (like those caused by the Saviors trying to kill peeps) would mean a higher risk of infection, but cuts on the hands from stabbing walkers and slipping onto one's own blade might be a lower risk of infection. I don't think the show would go realistic enough for people to be cutting themselves though. If they did, maybe only Carol would be safe since she's had a trench knife for so long :D

..
Bummer about Tara! The obvious setup was that Dwight would kill Simon there (and luckily they didn't do that), but I was hoping that Simon would kill Tara and that Dwight would fail at stopping Simon — exposing his duplicity in the process — and have to stay at Hilltop. Instead it looks like they'll explain his actions there by him missing another shot (his target being Simon and the bow kicking like it did when he accidentally killed Tara's GF). Tara seems worried about infection, but it also seems apparent that Dwight would not have infected his arrows, so she'd be safe.. and she would have turned already anyways, so she should know that...

I liked that ending ("the cost" [camera switches to larger graveyard than before]) :D .. super depressing :D :D ..

..Looking at Morgan's "You know what it is"/"*you* were supposed to" hallucinations/conscience moments... From the story so far it's probably that Morgan feels like *he* has to be the one doing all the dirty work so that others won't become as twisted and haunted as himself, and he feels like he's failed annoying kid by that kid killing the Savior and starting himself on a road of Morgan-becoming.. but how long will annoying kid last anyways? ;D
Cherub Cow
Member
Wed Mar 28 01:35:49
Actually.. at my "Instead it looks like they'll explain his actions there by him missing another shot" ..they could also have it be that Simon aimed to only wound Tara slightly.. but that's a terrible idea on his part unless he's an amazing shot.. so I hope they don't go that route.

Also: kind of stupid that they introduced some pro-doctor with whom the new doctor could interact. That's thin writing, since it's basically just an excuse to give new doctor a development scene that could get him past his timid demeanor; they've been desperate for doctors, yet they materialized one just for that scene, having her die almost immediately..
Cherub Cow
Member
Wed Mar 28 01:42:44
..sorry to Seb-spam with multi-posts. Last one, I promise ;D
Looking again at the Simon/Tara/Dwight scene.. it looks like Dwight was aiming directly at Tara (not at Simon), so I guess they'll say that Dwight was trying to wound her so that Simon couldn't kill/infect her with the axe. Maybe he thought it was too risky to kill Simon in front of the other Saviors? hmm..
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 28 10:51:21
yeah, my assessment was Dwight wounding her to alert her to Simon coming but also be convincing to Simon that he wasn't just trying to alert her or something

and yeah, i forgot to add to my complaining how ineffective these guns are :p the whole group packed together in an open field fired on from an elevated position... and seemed like most ran away ok :p

maybe Morgan will assume the hallucinations mean he has to kill the kid :p
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Mar 30 19:16:54
"maybe Morgan will assume the hallucinations mean he has to kill the kid :p"

That would be a fun outcome :D
..I actually haven't really thought much about where Morgan is going. He's clearly struggling with his old insane self and his more controlled self, but I wonder if that means that he'll just do something suicidal and crazy (like start killing Saviors even after a pact is reached with Negan), or if, yeah, he'll kill the kid or some other Hilltop/Kingdom character...

..
"and yeah, i forgot to add to my complaining how ineffective these guns are :p the whole group packed together in an open field fired on from an elevated position... and seemed like most ran away ok :p "

That wasn't too consistent on writing aim either! It's okay that they've shown that only a few people on the show can aim effectively at distances greater than maybe 50 feet (e.g., Abraham, Rick, and Sasha), but close-up like that with multiple shooters... there should have been heavy casualties for sure. I wonder if they lost show writers on this episode or something..
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Apr 02 18:48:03
@S8E14: "Still Gotta Mean Something"

(btw, just realized that I labeled episodes 11 and 12 "S9" not season 8.. oops :p )

"Because my son was there".. good line :) .. and Rick looking in the mirror like Carl wouldn't approve :p

Lots of good treatment of trying to satisfy blood rage vs. trying to heal.. Rick really loving the "killing spree" stage of grieving.. and also a good flip to see him deliver his same "my word" line, but where he was sincere before (in S8E03) he obviously didn't care this time. Time for Rick to go back on Carl's road now that Rick has gone down his own road a little and has seen how it makes him look. Nice dramatic irony in him reading Carl's letter knowing that Carl's method gets Rick shot in the chest ;D

Time for Dwight and Simon's comeuppance! :D
Negan's mystery pickup would have to have been Negan's "Laura" soldier (had to look up her name) who escaped Dwight's double cross ambush. So should be fun to see how Negan arranges his surprise party for Dwight, Simon, and Simon's kill crew. More burning? More bashing? Burnings for some, bashings for others? ;D Negan is all about theatrical execution, so this next one should be really good :D
..maybe they'll do a "Last of the Mohicans"/"Game of Thrones: [Mance Rayder burning]" where Daryl will see Dwight being tortured to death and will intervene by speeding Dwight's death with a kill shot... so Daryl will get to kill Dwight after all, but it will hurt him to do so. Probably that decision (or others like it) will also stop their plan to kill Eugene for the moment. So many options :D
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Apr 03 22:16:26
Morgan & Rick saved the series, stay on that path! :p

with that weird music, i held some hope Morgan was going to kill the kid at their reunion :p

i agree the person picked up was probably the Dwight escapee

not sure why trash lady was living in trash when apparently she has helicopter people connections
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Apr 09 16:28:12
@S8E15: "Worth"

Eugene throwing up was fun :D ... like a horned lizard shooting blood out of its eye to escape or something ;p
They made it seem like he just went fully Negan now that he knows that the Hilltop would treat him worse than Negan has, and of course he ran back to redouble his efforts.. but Eugene is so duplicitous and his actor (Josh McDermitt) so noncommittal to the role that it could equally be a scheme to make Negan lose the battle via malfunctioning ammunition. Getting Gabriel involved again would facilitate the ammo failures, but personally I think it would be shallow writing if Negan doesn't test samples of the ammunition for function before going on an operation like this — i.e., "Inspect what you expect"

Difficult to care about Aaron's work with the Amazons, but it looks like the Amazons will show up in time to help (so Rick's group walks into the ambush, then the Amazon's flank). If Eugene *does* decide to sabotage samples of the ammo (maybe even calculating how much he can slip by to hurt the Saviors while still passing quality checks?), then the firearm-less Amazons could be pretty effective. After a few fatal backfires in the Savior weapons, the Saviors would lose confidence in the ammo and be forced to go hand-to-hand..

The last pieces coming together on Rick's gun shot wound! Rick fully vulnerable but Negan fully in war mode. Guess Rick should have read Carl's letter sooner; Rick already screwed up the possibility of peace with that basement fight, so Negan heard Carl's letter too late and is over the teen emotion thing. Glad that they squashed that "let's all listen to this deep teen" trope before it got too Wesley Crusher in the show ;p

Kind of cool how Negan flushed out Simon's kill crew. Even if the reality of just hiding behind a dumpster seems ordinary, it was clever to recruit Dwight before letting Dwight know that his game was over too :)
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Apr 09 16:32:20
"not sure why trash lady was living in trash when apparently she has helicopter people connections"

Maybe she's a Trustafarian :D .. so she had a wealthy backer who could save her at any time, but she chose to pretend to be this communist ideal in a self-sustaining and minimalist trash heap. Her nicely-arranged living space makes it seem that way. She knows how to live well and organized but has just been wearing that trash person mask. Then daddy shows up in his helo (Mercedes) and she doesn't rush out in time to get saved ;p
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Apr 10 22:18:59
i think Eugene is full evil now... he went from Eugene the White to Eugene the Dark Greyish
(was wearing white before hiding in the ash)

Negan wanting to go full murder seemed odd to me, not clear to me what caused the change for him from just wiping out leaders or whatever
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Apr 11 01:25:32
...although i don't really recall his exchange with Rick that much :p

i mostly remember thinking why can't these two people find each other w/ the constant talking...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Apr 15 21:47:02

== show night, Spoilery ==

note Eugene wearing black again thus proving me right!

that ending was terrible :p

some serious precision knife work by Rick knowing it would not be fatal... as usual, i'm w/ team Daryl (not clear to me why Jesus is on that team though)
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Apr 16 21:06:57
@S8E16: "Wrath"

"that ending was terrible :p"

Yeah :/ .. I hate a happy ending. And when the Saviors' weapons failed on the first volley, I was very disappointed :/ :/ — it's back to "inspect what you expect".. Negan (obviously) shouldn't have just fired one handgun and then trusted that Eugene had turned full Savior.. he still should have verified randomly-selected ammo samples. Statistics, Negan! Statistics!! ;p

..
"(not clear to me why Jesus is on that team though)"

Very unclear to me too. Seems Jesus would 100% be Team Rick because it's the peaceful, "let live" route, but he was nodding and smiling at Maggie's "bide our time" plan... just makes me wonder: have I somehow forgotten lots of "must kill Negan no matter the cost" Jesus dialogue or something? Why was he even in the room? Hmm...

I think the only positive of the episode for me was on the hillside when Maggie was super pissed at Rick for making the call to save Negan. That brought up all the trauma of Glenn's death again. So I'm on board too! Team Maggie/Daryl gives me hope for next season.

So yeah.. a pretty bad episode for me. Saviors didn't even get to kill Eugene for his betrayal. I can only hope that the writers have been fattening up the cast for a slaughter. All of those moments where Negan decided not to bash someone's head in may come back next season as Maggie begins killing all the people that she doesn't like, probably starting with Negan's former lieutenants (mainly just Laura, I guess).

Also, that new doctor, "Siddiq" (Avi Nash), is a horrible actor. I thought maybe he just needed to warm up to the show, but he's still doing his awkward "I'm saying deep stuff too artificially/self-consciously" thing.. so he's on my "hope they kill [this character]" list.

Bleh. Maybe they did a bad episode for a finale so that
Fear the Walking Dead"'s premiere wouldn't have too much pressure to be any good...
...oh shit.. just Googled.. that was yesterday too?.... not sure if I'll watch it... maybe? :/
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Apr 16 22:19:00
yeah, they were back to back episodes

it will be kind of weird if it's Rick vs Maggie next season, seems like that would anger their audience :p
McKobb
Member
Wed Apr 18 23:34:12
Team Maggster!
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