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Utopia Talk / Movie Talk / Justice League: Snyder's Cut (2021)
| Thu Mar 18 09:32:23
UP Thread for reference:
| Thu Mar 18 10:02:56
(No spoilers by me here)
At four hours, I didn't necessarily *plan* to watch the entire thing all at once.. but I had no problem doing so :D
I did *just* watch it, so it's all still fresh, and I may be over-selling it below. So to keep it a little real, I should at least warn about the 4:3 aspect ratio. HBO had a notification about it at the beginning, but 15 minutes in I had to Google to find out the story. The short version is that Snyder felt that the 4:3 aspect ratio made sense for the way that IMAX can show the material. I think that's a fair assessment, given that IMAX fills the field of vision even at 4:3. Once I knew that it would be for the entire movie, it was easy to adjust. Of course.. that just makes me want to see it in IMAX now .. stupid sexy marketing ;p
(no theater release slated yet, btw — HBO only for now)
No time for a full review at the moment, so just some quick thoughts:
Snyder completely changed the dynamic in the best possible way. They edited out a lot of the dumb jokes and put the new (small) jokes into a much less artificial light. They also vastly improved the thematic material, particularly the importance of the group coming together and the importance of each person in the group. This was simply not done in the Whedon cut. In the Whedon cut, characters were mismanaged — given tasks to complete which were pointless to the central theme.. like putting the Flash on a distraction trip in the final fight or having Superman doing flashy damage control for fan service (the building-lifting scene comes to mind). This version was much more unified and logical. It not only added a lot of material (which was expected) but removed so so so many of the mistakes.
Of course, the extended length definitely helps the ideas breath. It was much more possible to do individual characterizations and character-building. Each character's story was really engaged and emotional. Even minor characters had much more understanding gazes by the camera — much more meaningful connections with their motivations. And there was much more comfortable pacing to make it more than just back-to-back action scenes. Nearly every event had real weight to it.
Snyder really poured his soul into this. Really amazing. It's pretty great that movies like this can still be made. It was like a renewal of optimism in that way. Like, wow.
| Thu Mar 18 15:28:47
i'm 13 hrs in, my nitpicks so far:
wonder woman w/ her celerity could've easily gotten to that last guy when he was reloading instead of using bracelets on that guy blowing out the whole wall... unnecessary massive property damage! (not sure if that part was different than original version)
aquaman still smashes the bottle! bottle smashing is so obnoxious :p at least the music less peppy for it
| Thu Mar 18 16:56:44
(more SPOILERS... technically)
i did like the Flash saving the pretty girl in car to establish him i guess more than the drawing on guy's face (& presumably that actress glad to be off the cutting room floor)
however, i think they cut the 'just save one' batman encouragement scene. it does seem reasonable he'd be nervous about his first combating the forces of darkness event... plus instead they had a weird zipping up & down stairs thing, him saying 'hurry up' & 'this way' without him actually helping any it seemed... (at least i think that was new)
i noticed they removed him falling on top of wonder woman... which in Jenny Nicholson's review of the original she noted that scene & assumed Whedon wrote it as "that dumb hack used the exact same joke in Age of Ultron" :p so perhaps she was right... & other stuff she complained about changed too so maybe Zack reviewed her video :p
| Thu Mar 18 19:00:17
...i was ready to say 'so who the fuck was the red-eyed alien Ma Kent?' but i guess they explained in the last 30 seconds sorta
anyways, one part that annoyed me most in first version was how superman totally dominated steppenwolf then instead of taking 5 secs to finish him off goes to fly that building away (plus demonstrate he's 100% better than the Flash in all ways :p)... so he's still super dominating but at least he stays there and finishes things & they don't overdo it as much
| Fri Mar 19 00:20:17
so to summarize ( SPOILERy sorta, unless you saw first movie then not really)
the gripes i remember having were the bottle thing, Superman leaving for the building (if he had returned & any heroes dead, boy would his face be red), & the whole movie seeming just like a vehicle to bring back Superman (superman dies, then hey, now here's a new guy w/ magic boxes that bring things to life! what luck)
so, they didn't fix the bottle... but fixed the final battle & fleshed out steppenwolf's story more so didn't seem as forced
so... 'it was better' is my final review to quote on the DVD box
| Fri Mar 19 05:44:53
"wonder woman w/ her celerity could've easily gotten to that last guy when he was reloading instead of using bracelets on that guy blowing out the whole wall...
She was being super careful to protect the crowd and to reduce property damage up until that point. A quick punch would have done the trick.. They may have just wanted an excuse to show how powerful the bracelet discharge can be against a normal person. It usually just gets used against cosmic enemies and stuff.
"bottle smashing is so obnoxious :p"
I gave him a pass because the sea can reclaim glass into sand ;D
"i did like the Flash saving the pretty girl in car to establish him i guess more than the drawing on guy's face (& presumably that actress glad to be off the cutting room floor)"
That was a good moment for him for sure. Much better reveal since it shows that he does want to help people despite having the ability to do a lot of damage. And I kind of figured that that scene was entirely new. A lot of it was that way.. like.. some they could just re-CGI, but my understanding was that a lot was completely re-filmed.
"i think they cut the 'just save one' batman encouragement scene. it does seem reasonable he'd be nervous about his first combating the forces of darkness event... plus instead they had a weird zipping up & down stairs thing, him saying 'hurry up' & 'this way' without him actually helping any it seemed... (at least i think that was new)"
I was kind of glad that they cut the "just save one" scene since that scene didn't quite make sense for someone that powerful. He has clearly saved people before, so the Whedon cut pretending that it was his first time was a little weird.. even with the enemies around, since, if anything, he could just escape them if it got rough. And I wonder if the reason they didn't want to have him manually bringing everyone up the stairs was that they don't want him to be able to bring people into his high-friction world unless they have the physical strength to endure the speed (a realism/balance issue). I noticed with the girl he saved in the car crash that he didn't just pick her up and move her.. he had to be very very careful. So that could be the direction they took..
"which in Jenny Nicholson's review of the original she noted that scene & assumed Whedon wrote it as "that dumb hack used the exact same joke in Age of Ultron" :p so perhaps she was right... & other stuff she complained about changed too so maybe Zack reviewed her video :p"
lol, awesome. That was a good cut. And Whedon totally *would* reuse a joke like that :p
"...i was ready to say 'so who the fuck was the red-eyed alien Ma Kent?' but i guess they explained in the last 30 seconds sorta "
lulz.. I am sadly aware of Martian Manhunter mainly from watching the current Melissa Benoist "Supergirl" series (which is awful, btw; I think I finished season 2 or 3 before giving up on the Arrowverse altogether). They develop the character pretty significantly, but I was never too interested in that plotline.
In Justice League, revealing him to be the General was neat, though, and I think Snyder could do a much better treatment of his character than the hack writers in charge of the Arrowverse. Plus, Harry Lennix could act the shit out of that role. Martian Manhunter's character has dealt with the genocide of his race, and Lennix could give that some great gravity.
"so he's still super dominating but at least he stays there and finishes things & they don't overdo it as much"
Definitely! That was key!! :D .. In Whedon's cut, Superman shows up, saves everything, and that's all that needs to happen. It's the pointless get-out-of-jail-free card. But Snyder let more important things take place: it wasn't enough for Superman to be there. Even with total control over Steppenwolf, Steppenwolf was still surviving and Darkseid was still peering in, waiting for the Unity. Wonder Woman and Aquaman had to make cuts with their edged weapons, Cyborg still had to stop the Unity, Batman was running interference, and Flash had to power the Unity-separation. And showing the consequence if Flash failed was just too cool. I was even a little shocked by the story change and wondered if that was a big surprise: that they would totally lose right then and the Darkseid future was really going to happen. And the effects when the Flash was running towards the Unity were super impressive to me. I usually don't care about that sort of thing ;p
"so... 'it was better' is my final review to quote on the DVD box"
"It was better" — Peter Rosenthal, Head Film Critic at the Onion
| Fri Mar 19 15:52:34
yeah the Flash change is ok i guess, depending how you want him to view him... it seemed like a concerted effort to remove 'weakness' elements from his character that were in original (like there was also an old scene of Flash getting hung up on Aquaman saying they'd all die or something), but not necessarily wrong (i'm no Flash expert :p)
sorta a reverse of how Aragorn's character seemed totally changed between the release version & the extended editions of LotR, there seemed a vast removal of his joking and non-king-like behaviors & showing weakness stuff in the original movie versions that is only seen in extended version
they definitely beefed Flash up & not just in bravery... like adding the reverse time stuff & didn't make him just completely inferior to Superman in every way like the first :p (which was certainly a positive change)
...although just occurred to me superman has reversed time too... but still! the point is he seemed to have unique usefulness in this version :p
| Fri Mar 19 15:54:44
oops... add "SPOILERy" up there :p
...but hopefully if reading this far you're aware of possible spoilers
| Sat Mar 20 06:31:33
the movie was ripped on rotten and meta.
| Sat Mar 20 11:46:27
ok i watched it. i admit this movie is way better than that turd version. But yea u got 300 million more and 3 more years and already knowin what and which sequences fans absolutely hated and shit...
its no surprise it would be better.
its immediately obvious right from da first action sequence...its way better and less comical than da first. wonder woman being a superhero, she shuldnt struggle so much against humans. now she moves fast and quick just like before.
movie is better fleshed out as well as characters, now we see more of cyborg, flash even aquaman.
before the old version made no sense, they all followed batman like he was da leader when he hasnt got a single superpower.
now they do there own thing, they just go with him on transport and shit.
like before, it made no sense with batman attackin first and headon. like why. he flies that shit but lol u tellin me da others need 2 wait 4 him first.
now, its more fleshed out and now we know why he goes in there first. its still balooney how he flew in 2 destroy da pillar, like as if wonder woman culdnt just go in there and do her bracelet thingie. but at least is more fleshed out now.
like before, cyborg kinda sucked. now we see him hackin and controllin and shit. like how was he suckin so much before. well coz he was a token character, thats why. amazing when a character is suddenly no more token, what they can do.
shits still dumb. like why does wonder woman need 2 stop some crazies at a bank. why do they go into da bank in da first place. like why do they need the schoolchildren 2 do there own thing. makes no sense.
he had a briefcase which supposed takes out 4 blocks...then she throws it up in da air and a small cgi plosion lol. now she at least flies up high. before was complete dogshit.
like why do amazones ride horses when some of them can jump 20 feet. lmao its complete bullshit. why do they hide da motherboxes inside a small building.
which supposedly was gonna be sealed off but in da beginnin we culd see a hole on top da building so lol??? its still da case in this version. but smaller mistakes dont add up as much no more.
like for example in da tunnel with da river, why was they shootin missiles at him and then he grabs one and uses it 2 flood da tunnel. like how stupid is da story. but these shitty things add up.
like in da original it begins with batman and one of those flies. what a shitty scene, and im glad its removed.
like how was darkseid defeated in da flashback. how stupid is that. wasnt he supposed 2 be one of da strongest superbeings. gettin bested by zeus like wtf?
overall its a better story, better movie. is still bad at some parts. but its definitely watchable now.
6.8 out of 10
| Sat Mar 20 12:39:18
why were da crazies singin and chantin after aquaman went back 2 da sea and that crazy was smellin his clothes like some crazed fanatics.
go smell his sweat. smell it. thats pretty crazy lol.
and why he takin off his clothes everytime he goes into da sea.
like so da women can chant his name and shit...like some groupies.
| Sat Mar 20 16:04:55
aquaman would seem like a god to them... & the better question is where does he gets his clothes when he comes back up
Batman went in first in the original version as he was trying to create a distraction (& seemed like he wants out of the job & trying to kill himself :p)... they kinda had left over bits in this one, like i -think- he said 'thats why i brought -you- together' not 'us' when leaving the 4 standing outside before he went in (or maybe i'm misremembering :p) & he still was hoping the demons would follow him in the car, although this time they dumped the distraction purpose & just made that seem like part of the plan (which i'm not sure makes complete sense...)
| Sun Mar 21 12:07:25
so its normal 2 see 4 women sing like crazy groupies while he jumps back in2 da ocean and they grab his clothes and smell it like crazy groupies?
"although this time they dumped the distraction purpose & just made that seem like part of the plan"
seeing how 3 of them can fly and 1 of them can run faster than anyone of those flies, im pretty sure batman is da weakest link when it comes 2 either offense or distraction...
what sucks is how much stronger superman is now when steppenwolf cant even hurt him with his axe...btw how does he even know this that he doesnt even try 2 dodge...hmm.
or how in da original its so stupid that his mom had 2 drive back 2 da farm 2 see him instead of him flyin 2 his mom which takes all but 2 seconds....
at least they corrected that shit in snyderscut.
why does civilians shoot bullets at superman...like wtf does that gonna do. or how does he recognize batman when he is supposed confused...
so they cut the stupid shit with civilians near da reactor livin and being locked inside by flies. yea that shit made total zero sense in da first movie. lmao it actually looked frikkin stupid.
| Sun Mar 21 12:28:39
"so its normal 2 see 4 women sing like crazy groupies while he jumps back in2 da ocean and they grab his clothes and smell it like crazy groupies"
yes... they may even have just been Jason Momoa groupies, & the cameraman filmed them (& still would be normal female behavior)... add on that he's a magical man from the sea who saves their lives then makes even more sense
| Mon Mar 22 11:53:45
well yes, why aint u singin. ur his groupie.
go sing. go sing.
so how did he 4get which planet da life equation is. like how do u 4get ur first loss and defeat.
and even if u magically 4got it somehow, how does he not piece it 2gether once he knows da motherboxes r there.
and why is superman buried but not dissected or at least studied like vision was. u think ur government is gonna bury someone properly...
like why was da spacecraft in a civilian tech lab...
still it was enjoyable 2 watch. better than da first movie thats 4 sure. but thats what 300 mill plus 3 more years gets u.
| Tue Mar 30 14:34:23
Sum1 shuld shit in Weedons mouth 4 ruinin justise legue
buffie wuz gay as hell and he shuldint b put in da charge of imporeent filmz
| Wed Jun 09 20:31:56
to be fair to whedon, WB saw snyder's version and was like "man people disliked BvS, but loved avengers, get Whedon in here to do the same thing with Avengers" whedon goes "let me do a batgirl film and I will do whatever you want"
| Wed Jun 09 23:54:31
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