Utopia Talk / Politics / Dr. Wakefield vindicated

river of blood Member	Thu Jan 27 06:52:06 http://www...d_British_Medical_Journal.html But of course we knew this was nothing but a witch hunt the whole time.
saiko Member	Thu Jan 27 07:08:18 BMJ > blog
river of blood Member	Thu Jan 27 07:14:10 BMJ caught lying = BMJ needs to address this
Camaban The Overseer	Thu Jan 27 07:14:19 I will make a prediction here and now: you will run away from this thread or its successor. I'll also point out that it only focuses on one part of the scandal. More weil come when it's not past 11b and I'm but song this from a phone in bed.
saiko Member	Thu Jan 27 07:18:48 Rob, Could you specify what it was that BMJ lied about? Is it your contention that Wakefield did not commit scientific fraud?
saiko Member	Thu Jan 27 07:20:46 Before we go off on a tangent here, I should point out that this is *not* a question of whether there is a link between vaccines and autism. It is perfectly possible to falsify data even if the fraudulent conclusion later turns out to be true after all. Not that it is, of course, but that's a different topic.
river of blood Member	Thu Jan 27 07:31:32 "More weil come when it's not past 11b and I'm but song this from a phone in bed." LOL.
river of blood Member	Thu Jan 27 07:32:52 11b and you'll butt song this from a phone in bed? Right. Gotcha.
Camaban The Overseer	Thu Jan 27 07:32:53 This was actually worth getting up for, just to show the honesty of RoB's sources: "Brian Deer caught as a liar It has also been revealed that journalist Brian Deer, the author of the BMJ article condemning Dr Wakefield as a fraud, is himself a liar. In attempting to gather evidence for his article in the BMJ, he lied about his identity and entered the home of one of the parents of the autism children. ***Specifically, he claimed he was working for The Sunday Times even though he was never a Sunday Times employee.***" Guess no-one ever told the Times this. http://www...tyle/health/article5683643.ece Hidden records show MMR truth A Sunday Times investigation has found that altered data was behind the decade-long scare over vaccination Brian Deer RoB: Does it bother you that your sources outright lie so frequently? This and "95% of people with lung cancer don't smoke and have never smoked" are only the most recent things. And this was just what jumped out of me when I had a quick look at this on Wiki.
Camaban The Overseer	Thu Jan 27 07:34:00 And yeah, Swype's great, but there's room for improvement.
Camaban The Overseer	Thu Jan 27 07:43:51 Well, which is it? Is this blog you're referring us to outright lying about Brian Deer's employment history? Or is the Times outright lying about Brian Deer's employment history (Y'know... When they put his name on one of their articles)? It's one or the other.
Camaban The Overseer	Thu Jan 27 07:46:32 If the blog you referred to us is outright lying about this thing that took all of five minutes to check up on, what does that say about the rest of the article? Keeping in mind that they're obviously not attempting to be accurate or verify basic facts. If the blog you referred us to is the one lying, that is... The Times might have been lying and merely pretending he's working for them.
Camaban The Overseer	Thu Jan 27 07:46:56 You've gone awfully quiet, BTW. Anyhow, back in about eight hours. G'night.
river of blood Member	Thu Jan 27 07:48:36 You have to be am employee of a publication in order to get an article published in it? Maybe you're just a dumbass. Could that be what's going on here?
river of blood Member	Thu Jan 27 07:49:20 Cameltoe? Hello? Where'd he go?
saiko Member	Thu Jan 27 07:56:54 "You have to be am employee of a publication in order to get an article published in it?" You also don't need to be an employee to work for someone. LAWYERT11two Is it your contention that Wakefield did not commit scientific fraud?
river of blood Member	Thu Jan 27 08:18:09 I'm inclined to believe that Wakefield did not commit scientific fraud but was the victim of a with hunt of sorts motivated by the threat of losing huge amounts of money.
saiko Member	Thu Jan 27 08:32:38 Well, Wakefield isn't exactly going to die in the poorhouse either. But then I take it you're not going to take anything the mainstream media, scientific journals, or private persons doing investigative journalism at face value unless they claim to support your preconceptions?
saiko Member	Thu Jan 27 08:33:08 Because, well... who COULDN'T big pharma have bought, right?
Seb Member	Thu Jan 27 08:48:48 Hmm, taking at face value, Wakefield is not only guilty of fraud then, but also plaigerism.
ehcks Member	Thu Jan 27 10:39:57 "Professor Walker-Smith and Dr Amar Dhillon -- independently documented the same problems in these children, including symptoms of autism." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9500320 Amar Dhillon and Walker-Smith's findings were from 2004, and were retracted from the Lancet last February for being *wrong*.
Madc0w Member	Thu Jan 27 12:47:45 Natural News, ROFL. Has RoB ever used a reliable source here?
Camaban The Overseer	Thu Jan 27 16:45:28 >>You have to be am employee of a publication in order to get an article published in it? Maybe you're just a dumbass. Could that be what's going on here? << 1. They claimed he was lying when he said he worked for them. He had and was (unless his article about this only showed up in that paper by coincidence) 2. http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/brian-deer/stories/ "He joined The Times, then The Sunday Times, where his awards have included a British Press Award for his investigations" Got any more squirming?
Camaban The Overseer	Thu Jan 27 16:46:09 >>Natural News, ROFL. Has RoB ever used a reliable source here? << Natural News's source is a series of e-mails between Wakefield and someone else. They shouldn't have used sources in the plural, because they only have one.
Camaban The Overseer	Fri Jan 28 15:39:53 "I will make a prediction here and now: you will run away from this thread or its successor." Wow. I must be a psychic. Or at least, someone who can spot clearly obvious long-term trends.
Hellfire Member	Fri Jan 28 15:45:05 so much for 'vindicated'.
Camaban The Overseer	Fri Jan 28 15:48:36 THIS is vindicated http://www...7/jan/06/broadcasting.channel4 "Doctor in MMR controversy drops Channel 4 libel action"
Camaban The Overseer	Mon Jan 31 19:42:44 Now that this is one thread away from dropping off, I'd like to say that RoB has definitely run away and is utterly owned. Again
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