Utopia Talk / Politics / Vaccines

river of blood Member	Sun Jan 30 19:10:33 God damn, look at all these fucking nutjobs that say vaccines are dangerous, bad, inneffective, etc. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxYSQr0nJ6c As if they had any credentials to confidently comment on this subject. Oh wait....
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Sun Jan 30 19:11:41 Total percentage of the population deaths due to the diseases targetted before vaccines, then total death due to diseases targetted after vaccines, including any complications due to vaccines, and I doubt you will find that vaccination is worse than not vaccinating.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Jan 30 19:12:20 river, you are fucking retarded
Camaban The Overseer	Sun Jan 30 19:15:05 You might have wanted to at least wait until this had dropped off the board before making more threads like this. http://www...hread=42177&time=1296251316359 And yes: By now, you have well and truly run away from it.
river of blood Member	Sun Jan 30 19:17:21 "river, you are fucking retarded" How so? All I've done is quoted a bunch of doctors, NIH, WHO, etc. Shoot the messenger much?
Pissflaps McGee Member	Sun Jan 30 19:22:31 "Total percentage of the population deaths due to the diseases targetted before vaccines, then total death due to diseases targetted after vaccines, including any complications due to vaccines, and I doubt you will find that vaccination is worse than not vaccinating. " Everyone who has had a vaccination is either now dead or will die. Fact.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Jan 30 19:23:34 yes, "doctors", who spread their findings around not with patents, new inventions, or publications... but by making youtube videos. right.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Jan 30 19:24:42 Its possible that some people who are currently alive transfer their minds to computers... and live forever. you lose fred.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Jan 30 19:25:21 "Everyone who has had a vaccination is either now dead or will die. Fact." completely irrelevant fact. but who would expect more?
Pissflaps McGee Member	Sun Jan 30 19:25:39 It's also possible that pigs will fly.
Aeros Member	Sun Jan 30 19:34:41 "How so? All I've done is quoted a bunch of doctors, NIH, WHO, etc. Shoot the messenger much?" When the message is hyperbole, discredited studies, and statistical errors/lies, then yes. Anyone who brings such a message needs to be shot.
Pissflaps McGee Member	Sun Jan 30 19:38:43 "When the message is hyperbole, discredited studies, and statistical errors/lies, then yes. Anyone who brings such a message needs to be shot." Then go shoot Bush.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Jan 30 19:44:13 pigs fly all the fucking time http://cal...-premium-imported-bacon-i89401
Sam Adams Member	Sun Jan 30 19:45:47 http://www...0the%20Police%20helicopter.jpg more flying pigs
Tragically Hip Member	Sun Jan 30 19:46:54 Imported bacon? Well lah-dee-dah.
miltonfriedman Member	Sun Jan 30 19:57:41 count down to river of basement's hit and run in 5...4...3...2...1 He's gone
kargen Member	Sun Jan 30 20:22:00 The video was filled in part with nuts. There are some legitimate Drs on that list, and for those we see half sentences being taken out of context through the creators of the videos efforts to associate those remarks with the remarks the nuts made.
Madc0w Member	Sun Jan 30 22:27:47 I agree with Kargen. It would be interesting to see what context many of those quotes appear in.
river of blood Member	Sun Jan 30 22:33:27 "The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization." Yes, I'm sure what he really meant was that vaccines were nothing to be concerned about and were our best friends.
Camaban The Overseer	Sun Jan 30 22:45:56 And as the former disgraced Dr. Wakefield who has not been vindicated in anything except his own mind shows us, even those who should know better get it wrong. The freak with a minority opinion can be right... But usually isn't.
miltonfriedman Member	Sun Jan 30 22:48:01 Have you been vaccinated, river of basement?
Camaban The Overseer	Sun Jan 30 22:54:26 The person you quoted above also says that a child has a higher chance of being bitten by a cobra than catching diptheria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diptheria "In the 1920s there were an estimated 100,000 to 200,000 cases of diphtheria per year in the United States, causing 13,000 to 15,000 deaths per year.[6] Children represented a large majority of these cases and fatalities. One of the most famous outbreaks of diphtheria was in Nome, Alaska; the 1925 serum run to Nome to deliver diphtheria antitoxin is now celebrated by the "Great Race of Mercy"." The Schick test, invented between 1910 and 1911, is a test used to determine whether or not a person is susceptible to diphtheria. It was named after its inventor, Béla Schick (1877â??1967), a Hungarian-born American pediatrician. A massive five-year campaign was coordinated by Dr. Schick. As a part of the campaign, 85 million pieces of literature were distributed by the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company with an appeal to parents to "Save your child from diphtheria." ***A vaccine was developed in the next decade, and deaths began declining in earnest in 1924.***[10]
river of blood Member	Sun Jan 30 22:55:17 "Have you been vaccinated, river of basement?" With what?
Camaban The Overseer	Sun Jan 30 22:55:40 "After the breakup of the former Soviet Union in the late 1980s, vaccination rates in its constituent countries fell so low that there was an explosion of diphtheria cases. In 1991 there were 2,000 cases of diphtheria in the USSR. By 1998, according to Red Cross estimates, there were as many as 200,000 cases in the Commonwealth of Independent States, with 5,000 deaths" From the above.
river of blood Member	Sun Jan 30 22:56:25 "The person you quoted above also says that a child has a higher chance of being bitten by a cobra than catching diptheria." Uh....and? What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
Sam Adams Member	Sun Jan 30 23:03:24 river how fucking owned are you. seriously? vaccines are bad? how can you beleive such blatant bullshit.
miltonfriedman Member	Sun Jan 30 23:03:52 "With what?" With syringes. Really, were you ever vaccinated for anything?
Camaban The Overseer	Sun Jan 30 23:06:06 >>Uh....and? What the fuck does that have to do with anything? << Combined with this: "The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization.....There is no convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease."--Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D. In particular areas, yes there are. This is almost one of them. But isn't it strange. This can be seen consistently. Vaccination rates go down. Rates of infectious diseases such as Measles and diptheria go up. But of a coincidence isn't it?
river of blood Member	Sun Jan 30 23:06:43 Yes, I was. You have some sort of point?
Sam Adams Member	Sun Jan 30 23:07:48 seriously, the world used to be fucking disease ridden all over the fucking place. Now its not. Normal adults and children past a few years don't ever die of common infections anymore. People don't even catch most of them anymore. So what changed? Antibiotics and vaccinations. But since no one even catches the old plagues anymore, we can rule out antibiotics, which is reactive. Thus, the thing mostly responsible for the world not being a germ hellhole any more, by unavoidable logic, is vaccination. Try and argue this and I will laugh at you forever.
miltonfriedman Member	Sun Jan 30 23:07:53 "Yes, I was. You have some sort of point?" Do you attribute your current predicament to vaccination?
Aeros Member	Sun Jan 30 23:09:08 I would rather take the 1 in 1000 chance of my kid getting hit with life threatening measles then the 1 in 10000000 chance him being harmed by the vaccine.
Aeros Member	Sun Jan 30 23:09:23 Such is RoB's logic.
river of dumb Member	Sun Jan 30 23:10:28 The MMR gave me seizures and my IQ would be double what it is now if it wasnt for the damage the vaccine caused me.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Jan 30 23:12:52 rob looks at the flu shot and thinks vaccines are useless.
kargen Member	Sun Jan 30 23:26:17 "Yes, I'm sure what he really meant was that vaccines were nothing to be concerned about and were our best friends." That being an example of one of the nuts. You knew that though. Why not grab one of those quotes ending with ... and put that in context?
river of blood Member	Sun Jan 30 23:26:47 No. But the flu shot is definitely a good example of their uselessness.
river of blood Member	Sun Jan 30 23:30:10 "That being an example of one of the nuts. You knew that though. Why not grab one of those quotes ending with ... and put that in context?" Why don't you address the ones that don't end with "..."? Oh wait, you already have. Your logic goes as follows: If the quote appears to dissent against vaccines regardless of context then the DOCTOR who said it must be insane. Great. Next?
river of blood Member	Sun Jan 30 23:31:33 God damn, you fuckers make me feel like I have a 68 inch cock and each of you has your hungry mouth puckered around your own square inch of it.
miltonfriedman Member	Sun Jan 30 23:42:03 Do you attribute your current predicaments to the vaccines you have received, river of basement?
Camaban The Overseer	Sun Jan 30 23:49:58 >>Why don't you address the ones that don't end with "..."? Oh wait, you already have. Your logic goes as follows: If the quote appears to dissent against vaccines regardless of context then the DOCTOR who said it must be insane. Great. Next? << How is this any different to you saying their support of them is due to them being paid off? And why do you only ever emphasise Doctor when they agree with you? It seems to be: If they agree with you, their education is valid, no matter how many batshit crazy claims they make ("95% of people with lung cancer don't smoke and never have smoked") if they disagree with you, they've been bought off by big pharma. And why did you pretend to not know who the disgraced former Dr. Wakefield was when he was outed as the fraud he is? IIRC, you dismissed him as a minor person. You seemed to clearly remember who he was once someone decided that his own personal declaration that he was right and everyone else was wrong was worth writing a blog about though. >>God damn, you fuckers make me feel like I have a 68 inch cock and each of you has your hungry mouth puckered around your own square inch of it. << Did you feel like that here? http://www...hread=42177&time=1296251316359
Nimatzo Member	Mon Jan 31 01:33:25 LOL fucking idiot, gotta love how he emphasizes DOCTOR and SCIENTIST. Hey river of retard, what happens with the titles when they disagree with you?
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 31 01:50:33 godamnit river you fucking moron, you need to learn that one fucking guy on youtube should not be the source of your thoughts.
saiko Member	Mon Jan 31 08:56:59 Vaccines save lives. The balance of evidence does not suggest that vaccines cause autism. </doctor>
saiko Member	Mon Jan 31 08:57:11 Oh, and </scientist>
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 09:46:37 "over the fucking place. Now its not. Normal adults and children past a few years don't ever die of common infections anymore. People don't even catch most of them anymore. So what changed?" Hygiene and Sanitation http://www.haciendapub.com/faria5.html http://www.institut.veolia.org/en/cahiers/sustainable-development-knowledge/education-sustainable/Fineberg.aspx
Dakyron Member	Mon Jan 31 09:49:16 Before vaccines became common, 1/3 people died before age 10. Just saying... even *IF* vaccines cause autism in 1 out of every 100000 people, thats still a trade most people are willing to take.
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 10:01:21 This thread is not about Autism, dakywrong.
Dakyron Member	Mon Jan 31 10:07:12 Good. Good. Glad to see you finally gave up on that line of thinking. The 1,000,000th separate owning must have finally convinced you. We are making progress. Slowly but surely.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 10:51:45 Do you attribute your current predicaments to the vaccines you have received, river of basement? Why are you so afraid of answering this question?
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 11:05:08 What predicaments are you referring too, numbnutz?
Aeros Member	Mon Jan 31 11:20:04 RoB is a text book example of why we should institute live virus "vaccination" programs. Works the same way in teaching the immune system and is 100% natural : )
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 11:28:59 Any predicaments. Do you attribute anything that has happened (is happening) to you to vaccines?
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 11:47:57 Yes.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 11:48:16 such as?
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 12:00:27 I've had needles jabbed into my arm. That was due to vaccines.
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 12:10:55 Is there some point you're trying to make here?
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 12:22:16 Why are you afraid of answering the question, river of basement?
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 12:27:38 I HAVE answered all of yours questions, douchebag. Question: Do you attribute anything that has happened (is happening) to you to vaccines? My answer: Yes Question: Such as? My answer: I've had needles jabbed into my arm. That was due to vaccines.
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 12:29:54 *balls filling up rapidly with semen*
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 12:53:06 "My answer: I've had needles jabbed into my arm. That was due to vaccines." So the only problem you had with vaccines is the fact that you have been jabbed, yes? Is that all?
saiko Member	Mon Jan 31 12:57:45 Vaccines save lives. The balance of evidence does not suggest that vaccines cause autism. Evolution is a fact. The relative proportion of gene alleles in a population changes over time as a result of external influences. The Earth is round. Plate tectonics is real. The Earth's lithosphere consists of a small number of plates which float on the mantle. Deflate already.
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 12:57:58 The only problem that I KNOW of that I've had PERSONALLY and DIRECTLY due to vaccines, yes. Again, what the fuck is your point? What is it that you're hoping to conclude from that?
saiko Member	Mon Jan 31 12:59:17 Oh, and smoking? It gives you cancer. Global climate change is occurring. The global distribution of climate events at all scales has measurably and meaningfully changed over the last decades and will continue to change.
saiko Member	Mon Jan 31 12:59:49 Oh, and 9/11? Outside job.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 13:04:05 "The only problem that I KNOW of that I've had PERSONALLY and DIRECTLY due to vaccines, yes. Again, what the fuck is your point? What is it that you're hoping to conclude from that?" So you have suffered from no other consequences, yes?
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 13:11:25 "Global climate change is occurring" I'm not aware of anyone who refutes that. "Oh, and 9/11? Outside job." Not according to senior military, intelligence, government, and law enforcement officials. Or to 9/11 commission members, or to 9/11 victims' families. Or to thousands of architects and engineers who have looked into the matter. "The Earth is round." Actually, no it is not. It's an oblate spheroid. "Vaccines save lives. The balance of evidence does not suggest that vaccines cause autism." Strawman. No one is saying that no vaccine ever saved anyone's life.
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 13:15:53 "So you have suffered from no other consequences, yes?" Consequences? I don't know. How would I measure the effects on me personally of tens of millions of people being sick from vaccines. I doubt that the impact of that on me has been ZERO since when people are sick it costs all of us money one way or another - just to take an example. So if you insist on a yes or no answer then I'd have to say no.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 13:43:09 What other consequences exist beside the one you have offered?
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 13:57:45 I just gave you an example in the last post. People getting sick (or dying) from vaccinations. ????????
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 14:24:08 Yeah, besides that, I can't think of much else. Maybe also all the wasted money we've spent on vaccinations.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 14:52:47 So you could not name any other effects that have happened to you, correct?
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 15:05:51 That has happened personally to me as a direct effect of vaccines? No, not with any certainty. Didn't we cover this already? We seem to be going in circles now. See above.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 15:08:03 What caused this uncertainty? What symptoms are you currently experiencing that created this uncertainty?
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 15:15:17 What uncertainty? The only uncertainty I mentioned was my uncertainty that I've personally been directly effected by vaccines (other than having to be jabbed with needles). What caused THAT uncertainty? Uncertainty in this case is caused by the huge number of variables that go into determining your health status. "What symptoms are you currently experiencing that created this uncertainty?" I'm not currently experiencing any symptoms that I can say are the source of this uncertainty.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 15:24:01 So your uncertainty over whether the fact that you haven't suffered from any ill effects is not based on anything you have experienced, but instead, it is based on "number of variables," yes?
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 31 15:36:13 so this explains what is wrong with your brain...
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 16:07:53 "So your uncertainty over whether the fact that you haven't suffered from any ill effects is not based on anything you have experienced, but instead, it is based on "number of variables," yes?" That's mostly true, yes. (lol? Milton, I think it's time you started to wrap this up and make a point of some sort)
ehcks Member	Mon Jan 31 18:38:03 "How would I measure the effects on me personally of tens of millions of people being sick from vaccines." More like tens of people. Over the last 200+ years.
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 18:58:36 The new cervical cancer vaccine has injured thousands and that's just ONE vaccine that has been around only two or three years. So "tens of people over 200+ years" is an absolutely absurd figure.
Camaban The Overseer	Mon Jan 31 19:10:31 Here's a direct question for you (I remember you ranting about never being asked them, then running away from a direct one very shortly after) Why is it that when vaccination rates go down, incidents of diseases that the vaccinations are targetted against go up? IE: Measles after the disgraced former Dr. Wakefield spread his potential lawsuit-and-sales-of-"safe"-alternative-funded misinformation.
Camaban The Overseer	Mon Jan 31 19:13:09 And why is it mainly the diseases that have been vaccinated against that have dropped this much? Surely if it's just hygiene advancements, it would have affected them fairly uniformly. For instance, chickenpox isn't vaccinated against like MMR are, and is still a fairly common part of childhood. On the flipside, smallpox has also been eradicated from places where the hygiene levels are crappy at best (India is not a clean country, for example)
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 21:01:16 "That's mostly true, yes." Very good. So whether you have ill effects are depend on "other variables." I am glad that you have reached this conclusion.
river of blood Member	Mon Jan 31 23:18:04 huh? 8==D --- -- ---> o-;
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Jan 31 23:33:30 Yeah, i pwnt you pretty good.
Madc0w Member	Mon Jan 31 23:50:06 RoB chooses to ignore the question from camaban he can't answer
miltonfriedman Member	Tue Feb 01 00:20:53 lulz. another hit and run from river of basement.
Camaban The Overseer	Tue Feb 01 06:09:38 >>RoB chooses to ignore the question from camaban he can't answer<< Not an unusual occurence.
Allahuakbar Member	Tue Feb 01 08:03:34 Western medicine, bah! http://www...ec2c9dab5a47979afd14a401946553 Finland: link between swine flu shot, narcolepsy (AP) â?? 1 hour ago HELSINKI (AP) â?? Finnish health officials say they have found an increased risk of narcolepsy among 4 to 19-year-olds who were given swine flu shots. The National Narcolepsy Task Force says a preliminary study indicates that children vaccinated with Pandemrix "contributed to the observed increase in incidence of narcolepsy" compared to those who were not vaccinated in the same age group. The study published by Finland's National Institute for Health and Welfare Tuesday says that "the most likely explanation is that the increase in narcolepsy is by joint effect of the vaccine and some other factor." In August, the European Medicines Agency said it was investigating a possible link between the swine flu vaccine and narcolepsy, a rare disorder that causes people to suddenly fall asleep.
ehcks Member	Tue Feb 01 10:18:38 Because people from 4 to 19 years old like going to sleep at a predetermined time.
Dakyron Member	Tue Feb 01 13:47:43 Flu shots are stupid. The flu isnt a deadly disease unless you are already feeble...
Camaban The Overseer	Tue Feb 01 14:22:32 Spanish flu as the most famous example. Flu can be a killer.
Dakyron Member	Tue Feb 01 14:23:39 "Flu can be a killer. " If you are feeble. But then, so can a fall.
Camaban The Overseer	Tue Feb 01 14:46:00 Yeah but don't have shots against falls. Plus they're not contagious. Even if one doesn't kill you you're sick and miserable for a week as weil as lose work.
saiko Member	Tue Feb 01 15:44:21 And if you could get vaccinated against falling there's no point in not doing that.
Dakyron Member	Tue Feb 01 17:10:56 Unless the vaccine was ineffective and actually caused a small percentage of people to fall without cause.
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