Utopia Talk - Politics - Last night in Sweden

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Last night in Sweden

Nimatzo
rank Tue Feb 21 07:32:19 2017
Immigrant gangs rioted and burned down stores and cars. LOL I am serious, the police actually had fire warning shots.

Trump is scary...

Nimatzo
rank Tue Feb 21 07:36:11 2017
http://www...stade-sten-mot-polis-1.4166085

Google translate.

Nimatzo
rank Tue Feb 21 08:03:10 2017
The police actually fired at the rioters.

Aeros
rank Tue Feb 21 08:40:13 2017
This is the thing. Emptying the middle east and transplanting its people in Europe and North America is not the answer.

Take it from Muslims like Nimatzo, who I have observed, also take a dim view about transplanting every camel herder into the west that washes on our shores.

There is a massive difference between respecting the individual right to religious belief, and demanding that the nation structure its laws and culture around tolerance of individual beliefs.

Nimatzo is the product of very deliberate immigration policy by the United States and its proxies in Europe. We do not allow immigration by single military aged males. We do not allow immigration by families with more then one wife. We do not allow immigration by families where the wife is not the legal age of majority. We do not allow immigration if they cannot speak the native language.

In doing this, we insure that the Muslims that enter the west, are the Muslims who would be murdered on sight by the people we want to exclude. The enemies of free thought, expression, and belief.

There has been a weak kneed response among Liberals that we should simply open up the floodgates. Let these people in. And in the process import the problems of the middle east into our own societies. Or in the case Europe, the problems of the Middle East and Africa into our own societies. This drive comes from a fundamentally imperialist and racist belief.

The belief that the societies these people come from are so backwards, dangerous, and vile, it would be a crime to send the people created by these societies back to them, rather then to let them into our own.

The West has built a shining city on the hill where everyone has a place. Even Muslims. But this paradise cannot tolerate beliefs that contradict its mandate. This is something the United States has realized. Its something Australia has Realized. Multiculturalism is a false promise that will only undermine the liberal order, and WILL lead to civil conflict.

Nimatzo
rank Tue Feb 21 09:30:48 2017
I would never refer to myself as a Muslim under any circumstance. Under duress in the hands of Jihadis, yes.

And I am not the product of deliberate immigration policy. I came to Sweden when the immigration policy was even more open and generous. I just happen to come from an educated background with a liberal arts major father who funnily enough studied at UC Berkley of all places.

But the gist of your post is correct. People all over the world do not want the same things, on some very fundamental issues we want things that are diametrically opposed to what other want. The fucking EU is falling apart because cultures much more similar than Swedes and Muslims can't get their shit together. Let's calm the fuck down a little and get our shit together before we hold hands and sing kumbaya. We have gotten a little ahead of ourselves I think.

Nimatzo
rank Tue Feb 21 09:35:19 2017
And if anyone has found a way for the entire world to unite I am the FIRST one in line to buy tickets. But have you? Or are you proposing ramming more of the same down the throats of people who did not buy what you were selling the first dozen times?

Aeros
rank Tue Feb 21 10:10:25 2017
Its a rather ironic situation that the most obvious reactionism to importing the third world into the West would occur in America rather then Europe. Simply because the USA, for all its voicing of being an open and inclusive society, has always been a society that demanded conformity to its cultural norms.

Admittedly, those norms are not so bad. Obedience to the secular law, no religious power over the Government, the right to personal belief, and the protection of personal belief against people who would seek to impose their own.

This is nothing new. For example, the United States has actually waged war against a recalcitrant Religion.

Mormons.

In the mid 19th Centuries, a cult emerged in Western Pennsylvania under the leadership of Joseph Smith. The Cult ultimately established the center of its worship in Nauvoo, Illinois. The locals of that area however reacted strongly against the sudden imposition of an alien religion /culture, and riots started, leading to several Mormons being Lynched.

In response, the Mormons fled Illinois, and established settlements in the Utah Territory, which they proclaimed as their new Zion, and the sovereign domain of their Religion.

They decided to back this belief up with violence, when the Mormon militia murdered a settler convoy on the way to California at Mountain Meadow. In response, the Federal Government dispatched the United States Army with the executive order to Suppress the Mormon Religion by all means necessary. The Mormon Militia was routed after token resistance in the face of the invasion of Thousands of Federal Troops. Brigham Young himself, along with several Bishops of the Mormon Church were detained by the military and charged in Court Martial with Treason.

In the End, President Buchanan ended the suppression of the Mormons after the Church agrees to remove Young from Power, and swear allegiance upon their own religious text to the United States and the Federal Constitution. The site of the Mountain Meadow massacre is now a Federal National Park, and fundamentalist Mormons to this day have not forgiven the Church of Latter Day Saints for its surrender to the authority of the Federal Government, and the Federal Government itself for using the power of the United States Army to compel the submission of the Mormon Church.

And this is the fundamental difference between the USA and Europe. We allow people to hold their religious beliefs. But the moment those beliefs challenge the core fundamentals of our nation, they are suppressed. By force. if necessary.

Aeros
rank Tue Feb 21 10:22:54 2017
For the curious, yes, this was a thing. No, I am not talking out my ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War

Paramount
rank Tue Feb 21 11:07:04 2017
"Immigrant gangs rioted"

Not because they are immigrants though. But because they are criminals. The police are constantly disturbing their drug dealing business and the police arrested one guy last night. That's why the rest of his homeboys rioted.

"The police actually fired at the rioters."

Not the first time they shoot at rioters. They shoot a white swedish dude who rioted some years ago. He almost died.

Paramount
rank Tue Feb 21 11:10:24 2017
"the police actually had fire warning shots."

Nope, not warning shots. The police is saying that one police fired "verkanseld" (don't know the english word for that) but basically one police officer fired a shot in self defense in order to take out his target. Not as a warning.

Paramount
rank Tue Feb 21 11:12:25 2017
It's almost too bad that the police missed, though. Some of these criminals probably deserves a bullet.

delude
rank Tue Feb 21 13:24:15 2017
"Not because they are immigrants though. But because they are criminals. The police are constantly disturbing their drug dealing business and the police arrested one guy last night. That's why the rest of his homeboys rioted."

So criminals there do the same thing criminals do in the US? Shocking.

Paramount
rank Tue Feb 21 14:22:15 2017
Yeah, it probably comes as a shock for many. A lot of people believes that these gangsters riot because of Allah.

werewolf dictator
rank Tue Feb 21 19:12:55 2017
so was they criminals before they came or only after

if they was criminals before they came.. then sweden likes letting in criminal immigrants

if they was criminals after they came.. then sweden turns immigrants into criminals

either way you lose

Paramount
rank Tue Feb 21 19:28:51 2017
Yeah, criminality hurts a society. No secret there.

State Department
rank Tue Feb 21 19:39:01 2017
There is only one Kek, and the Donald is his prophet.

Delude
rank Tue Feb 21 20:05:30 2017
Lol wd's logic.

"Sweden never had criminals before."

werewolf dictator
rank Tue Feb 21 20:08:00 2017
lol deludes logic

"usa should let in terrorists and criminals who want sharia law"

Delude
rank Tue Feb 21 20:15:02 2017
Lol...wd ignores statistics and information showing there has not been a major terrorist attack frome those country listed since 9/11/01 in the states.

Hrothgar
rank Tue Feb 21 20:31:56 2017
Aeros description and gross generalization of 1800s Mormons doesn't apply very well to the presented forcing religious groups to "Be American or else".

After all, long before the group went migrating into Mexico owned Utah territory it had been riot/mobbed/violence out of all the places they tried to live as Americans.

Even during their initial trek across the continent they sent a 500 man battalion to fight for the USA in the war against Mexico.

Add to all of this the fact they petitioned for Statehood in the United States for around 50 years before being let in - and it's hardly the picture of an Anti-American religion at the opposite political spectrum to freedom of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (unlike, say serious Islam which does not tolerate differences in beliefs very well).

werewolf dictator
rank Tue Feb 21 21:06:10 2017
rofl "statistics and information".. delude ignores for example afghan who killed 49 homos in orlando would never be in usa if afghans was banned

why does delude hate usa and want homos killed

Nimatzo
rank Tue Feb 21 21:11:13 2017
"verkanseld"

Fire for effect?

Delude
rank Tue Feb 21 21:11:14 2017
^Lol stupid logic is stupid logic. Was us citizen

It's like saying if the guy was Italian descent that would have never happened if italians were never let in the country years ago.

Or the Irish

OR the Asians

OR the Africans

OR the Germans

OR the English

Lol wd is really stupid.

werewolf dictator
rank Tue Feb 21 21:41:14 2017
lol was member of evil death cult who was son of evil death cult.. delude thinks that is comparable to letting in english

so delude thinks it is cool to let in members of evil death cult who repeatedly kill usa citizens.. and still won't close barn door after attacks by evil death cult with "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on".. because defending selves against evil death cult is "unconstitutional"

Paramount
rank Tue Feb 21 21:43:32 2017
Nimatzo

"verkanseld"

Fire for effect?

--

Yes, that's a good translation.

State Department
rank Tue Feb 21 21:46:54 2017
FIRE FOR EFFECT!!!!

Fixed.

Delude
rank Tue Feb 21 22:10:51 2017
Wd equals hot rod intelligence. Lol

obaminated
rank Wed Feb 22 03:27:12 2017
This is pretty hilarious. Refugee muslims can't help themselves, meanwhile the swede cucks refuse to admit they have a problem. And then they wonder why there is a growing anti immigrant sentiment among the general population. Basically brexit, trump, etc is going to keep happening when ruling liberals refuse to drop their idiot policies.

delude
rank Wed Feb 22 03:37:53 2017
Yeah, amazing that this all started because a criminal got arrested. I mean if they werent immigrants, there would be no crimes.

obaminated
rank Wed Feb 22 04:16:49 2017
That's the dumbest defense of Swedens immigration problem imaginable.

delude
rank Wed Feb 22 04:19:30 2017
I'm just applying the logic that Trump is using. Remove immigrants, no crimes.

Nimatzo
rank Wed Feb 22 07:43:30 2017
Or maybe do take in more immigrants than your society can absorb and take care of? Instead of doing what Sweden has done and create ethnic ghettos full of unemployed people, where segregation is so bad that the police and state can no longer function or do their jobs.

We do not have to swing between the two extremes, border walls or free immigration. Where are all my sane people?

show deleted posts

Nimatzo rank	Tue Feb 21 07:32:19 2017 Immigrant gangs rioted and burned down stores and cars. LOL I am serious, the police actually had fire warning shots. Trump is scary...
Nimatzo rank	Tue Feb 21 07:36:11 2017 http://www...stade-sten-mot-polis-1.4166085 Google translate.
Nimatzo rank	Tue Feb 21 08:03:10 2017 The police actually fired at the rioters.
Aeros rank	Tue Feb 21 08:40:13 2017 This is the thing. Emptying the middle east and transplanting its people in Europe and North America is not the answer. Take it from Muslims like Nimatzo, who I have observed, also take a dim view about transplanting every camel herder into the west that washes on our shores. There is a massive difference between respecting the individual right to religious belief, and demanding that the nation structure its laws and culture around tolerance of individual beliefs. Nimatzo is the product of very deliberate immigration policy by the United States and its proxies in Europe. We do not allow immigration by single military aged males. We do not allow immigration by families with more then one wife. We do not allow immigration by families where the wife is not the legal age of majority. We do not allow immigration if they cannot speak the native language. In doing this, we insure that the Muslims that enter the west, are the Muslims who would be murdered on sight by the people we want to exclude. The enemies of free thought, expression, and belief. There has been a weak kneed response among Liberals that we should simply open up the floodgates. Let these people in. And in the process import the problems of the middle east into our own societies. Or in the case Europe, the problems of the Middle East and Africa into our own societies. This drive comes from a fundamentally imperialist and racist belief. The belief that the societies these people come from are so backwards, dangerous, and vile, it would be a crime to send the people created by these societies back to them, rather then to let them into our own. The West has built a shining city on the hill where everyone has a place. Even Muslims. But this paradise cannot tolerate beliefs that contradict its mandate. This is something the United States has realized. Its something Australia has Realized. Multiculturalism is a false promise that will only undermine the liberal order, and WILL lead to civil conflict.
Nimatzo rank	Tue Feb 21 09:30:48 2017 I would never refer to myself as a Muslim under any circumstance. Under duress in the hands of Jihadis, yes. And I am not the product of deliberate immigration policy. I came to Sweden when the immigration policy was even more open and generous. I just happen to come from an educated background with a liberal arts major father who funnily enough studied at UC Berkley of all places. But the gist of your post is correct. People all over the world do not want the same things, on some very fundamental issues we want things that are diametrically opposed to what other want. The fucking EU is falling apart because cultures much more similar than Swedes and Muslims can't get their shit together. Let's calm the fuck down a little and get our shit together before we hold hands and sing kumbaya. We have gotten a little ahead of ourselves I think.
Nimatzo rank	Tue Feb 21 09:35:19 2017 And if anyone has found a way for the entire world to unite I am the FIRST one in line to buy tickets. But have you? Or are you proposing ramming more of the same down the throats of people who did not buy what you were selling the first dozen times?
Aeros rank	Tue Feb 21 10:10:25 2017 Its a rather ironic situation that the most obvious reactionism to importing the third world into the West would occur in America rather then Europe. Simply because the USA, for all its voicing of being an open and inclusive society, has always been a society that demanded conformity to its cultural norms. Admittedly, those norms are not so bad. Obedience to the secular law, no religious power over the Government, the right to personal belief, and the protection of personal belief against people who would seek to impose their own. This is nothing new. For example, the United States has actually waged war against a recalcitrant Religion. Mormons. In the mid 19th Centuries, a cult emerged in Western Pennsylvania under the leadership of Joseph Smith. The Cult ultimately established the center of its worship in Nauvoo, Illinois. The locals of that area however reacted strongly against the sudden imposition of an alien religion /culture, and riots started, leading to several Mormons being Lynched. In response, the Mormons fled Illinois, and established settlements in the Utah Territory, which they proclaimed as their new Zion, and the sovereign domain of their Religion. They decided to back this belief up with violence, when the Mormon militia murdered a settler convoy on the way to California at Mountain Meadow. In response, the Federal Government dispatched the United States Army with the executive order to Suppress the Mormon Religion by all means necessary. The Mormon Militia was routed after token resistance in the face of the invasion of Thousands of Federal Troops. Brigham Young himself, along with several Bishops of the Mormon Church were detained by the military and charged in Court Martial with Treason. In the End, President Buchanan ended the suppression of the Mormons after the Church agrees to remove Young from Power, and swear allegiance upon their own religious text to the United States and the Federal Constitution. The site of the Mountain Meadow massacre is now a Federal National Park, and fundamentalist Mormons to this day have not forgiven the Church of Latter Day Saints for its surrender to the authority of the Federal Government, and the Federal Government itself for using the power of the United States Army to compel the submission of the Mormon Church. And this is the fundamental difference between the USA and Europe. We allow people to hold their religious beliefs. But the moment those beliefs challenge the core fundamentals of our nation, they are suppressed. By force. if necessary.
Aeros rank	Tue Feb 21 10:22:54 2017 For the curious, yes, this was a thing. No, I am not talking out my ass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War
Paramount rank	Tue Feb 21 11:07:04 2017 "Immigrant gangs rioted" Not because they are immigrants though. But because they are criminals. The police are constantly disturbing their drug dealing business and the police arrested one guy last night. That's why the rest of his homeboys rioted. "The police actually fired at the rioters." Not the first time they shoot at rioters. They shoot a white swedish dude who rioted some years ago. He almost died.
Paramount rank	Tue Feb 21 11:10:24 2017 "the police actually had fire warning shots." Nope, not warning shots. The police is saying that one police fired "verkanseld" (don't know the english word for that) but basically one police officer fired a shot in self defense in order to take out his target. Not as a warning.
Paramount rank	Tue Feb 21 11:12:25 2017 It's almost too bad that the police missed, though. Some of these criminals probably deserves a bullet.
delude rank	Tue Feb 21 13:24:15 2017 "Not because they are immigrants though. But because they are criminals. The police are constantly disturbing their drug dealing business and the police arrested one guy last night. That's why the rest of his homeboys rioted." So criminals there do the same thing criminals do in the US? Shocking.
Paramount rank	Tue Feb 21 14:22:15 2017 Yeah, it probably comes as a shock for many. A lot of people believes that these gangsters riot because of Allah.
werewolf dictator rank	Tue Feb 21 19:12:55 2017 so was they criminals before they came or only after if they was criminals before they came.. then sweden likes letting in criminal immigrants if they was criminals after they came.. then sweden turns immigrants into criminals either way you lose
Paramount rank	Tue Feb 21 19:28:51 2017 Yeah, criminality hurts a society. No secret there.
State Department rank	Tue Feb 21 19:39:01 2017 There is only one Kek, and the Donald is his prophet.
Delude rank	Tue Feb 21 20:05:30 2017 Lol wd's logic. "Sweden never had criminals before."
werewolf dictator rank	Tue Feb 21 20:08:00 2017 lol deludes logic "usa should let in terrorists and criminals who want sharia law"
Delude rank	Tue Feb 21 20:15:02 2017 Lol...wd ignores statistics and information showing there has not been a major terrorist attack frome those country listed since 9/11/01 in the states.
Hrothgar rank	Tue Feb 21 20:31:56 2017 Aeros description and gross generalization of 1800s Mormons doesn't apply very well to the presented forcing religious groups to "Be American or else". After all, long before the group went migrating into Mexico owned Utah territory it had been riot/mobbed/violence out of all the places they tried to live as Americans. Even during their initial trek across the continent they sent a 500 man battalion to fight for the USA in the war against Mexico. Add to all of this the fact they petitioned for Statehood in the United States for around 50 years before being let in - and it's hardly the picture of an Anti-American religion at the opposite political spectrum to freedom of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (unlike, say serious Islam which does not tolerate differences in beliefs very well).
werewolf dictator rank	Tue Feb 21 21:06:10 2017 rofl "statistics and information".. delude ignores for example afghan who killed 49 homos in orlando would never be in usa if afghans was banned why does delude hate usa and want homos killed
Nimatzo rank	Tue Feb 21 21:11:13 2017 "verkanseld" Fire for effect?
Delude rank	Tue Feb 21 21:11:14 2017 ^Lol stupid logic is stupid logic. Was us citizen It's like saying if the guy was Italian descent that would have never happened if italians were never let in the country years ago. Or the Irish OR the Asians OR the Africans OR the Germans OR the English Lol wd is really stupid.
werewolf dictator rank	Tue Feb 21 21:41:14 2017 lol was member of evil death cult who was son of evil death cult.. delude thinks that is comparable to letting in english so delude thinks it is cool to let in members of evil death cult who repeatedly kill usa citizens.. and still won't close barn door after attacks by evil death cult with "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on".. because defending selves against evil death cult is "unconstitutional"
Paramount rank	Tue Feb 21 21:43:32 2017 Nimatzo "verkanseld" Fire for effect? -- Yes, that's a good translation.
State Department rank	Tue Feb 21 21:46:54 2017 FIRE FOR EFFECT!!!! Fixed.
Delude rank	Tue Feb 21 22:10:51 2017 Wd equals hot rod intelligence. Lol
obaminated rank	Wed Feb 22 03:27:12 2017 This is pretty hilarious. Refugee muslims can't help themselves, meanwhile the swede cucks refuse to admit they have a problem. And then they wonder why there is a growing anti immigrant sentiment among the general population. Basically brexit, trump, etc is going to keep happening when ruling liberals refuse to drop their idiot policies.
delude rank	Wed Feb 22 03:37:53 2017 Yeah, amazing that this all started because a criminal got arrested. I mean if they werent immigrants, there would be no crimes.
obaminated rank	Wed Feb 22 04:16:49 2017 That's the dumbest defense of Swedens immigration problem imaginable.
delude rank	Wed Feb 22 04:19:30 2017 I'm just applying the logic that Trump is using. Remove immigrants, no crimes.
Nimatzo rank	Wed Feb 22 07:43:30 2017 Or maybe do take in more immigrants than your society can absorb and take care of? Instead of doing what Sweden has done and create ethnic ghettos full of unemployed people, where segregation is so bad that the police and state can no longer function or do their jobs. We do not have to swing between the two extremes, border walls or free immigration. Where are all my sane people?
	show deleted posts

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