Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump shot II

murder Member	Sun Jul 14 08:55:28 cont ... not again :oP The Secret Service really shit the bed on this one
Paramount Member	Sun Jul 14 09:01:30 This thread didn’t exist when I started to type my thread :p
Average Ameriacn Member	Sun Jul 14 09:41:11 We should use this thread as paramount is a foreigner and started the other thread with a troll video although this is very serious and if Biden had balls he would raise the defcon level.
murder Member	Sun Jul 14 10:02:00 A mod can "delete" this thread since the other one is getting all the action. :oP
Habebe Member	Sun Jul 14 10:20:36 Can we just edit the title to III?
Habebe Member	Sun Jul 14 10:53:43 Trump made a statement today as he plans to hold a rally in wisconsin. "I've decided to bring in a ringer, this young man is a real winner, to be my personal body guard , unlike the failed loser of an assassin (what a loser and a bad shot) who tried to kill (but failed, bigly) the greatest president this great country has ever seen" http://en....ttenhouse_Kenosha_shooting.jpg This is the only image of the new bodyguard so far released.
patom Member	Sun Jul 14 11:25:15 I'm amazed that in less that a day they identified the shooter from DNA. No mention of him having a criminal record. They said he wasn't carrying any ID, so where did the get a match from? http://www...hooting-suspect-111144437.html
Average Ameriacn Member	Sun Jul 14 11:25:18 Now we find out who are our real allies!!! Nigel should be the next British King!!!! http://www...pport-trump-in-desperate-hour/ I’m flying to America to support Trump in this desperate hour He’s had a narrow miss. It’s a miracle. I implore the Left to think very carefully about how they seek to play politics Nigel Farage 14 July 2024 It’s only a comment. It’s only a joke. It’s only a milkshake. So the Left squawk each time someone drenches me with a drink, or a so-called comedian suggests people should throw battery acid at me on the BBC. It’s just a joke. If you’re a politician, it’s part of the job description, right? Well, that is not true. The words deployed by the Left are, I believe, encouraging people. Rocks were thrown at me during the election campaign, and last night President Trump was shot. The favourite to be the next President mere millimetres away from death. The ‘be kind’ brigade must now realise that their language has an impact. It has become commonplace amongst the media elite to view Trump as an authoritarian fascist – it is now so normal to hear that those of us on the right, who care about our countries, are somehow authoritarian dictators. Take the last week – Biden has declared that Trump should be “in a bullseye” and that he is a “dictator”. It’s not just in the States. David Aaronovitch, the former Times Columnist, once tweeted – then deleted – that if he were Biden he’d “have Trump murdered”. He has since claimed that it was “clearly satirical but deliberately misinterpreted.” Yet the rot that it is somehow acceptable to demonise and marginalise elected figures, even in jest, in such inflammatory terms has become our normal – these aren’t words spoken by lonely men in their mother’s basement but by people in serious jobs, working in national institutions. We don’t know the motives of the 20 year-old shooter. But we do know that as our political discourse becomes more febrile; and as the Left become more desperate to attack those of us who stand up for what we believe, the more violent it becomes. It shouldn’t be normal to throw cement, rocks or drinks at me. And yet, for many on the Left, the language of violence has become their last resort. And we’re now seeing the consequences. Which is why, next week, I will be travelling to Milwaukee to the Republican Convention. I do so to support my friend, Donald Trump, as we head into the later stages of an era-defining election. He is the favourite to win – and after today’s heinous acts he will win – and I am determined to do all I can to ensure the UK’s special relationship with the US is as strong as it can be. But I do so for something bigger. To stand shoulder to shoulder with President Trump and the US to stand up for democracy. To say, loud and clear, that we can disagree vehemently, that we can debate, that we can thrash out of views But that resorting to violence is entirely unacceptable, regardless of your views. President Trump had a very, very narrow miss. It is a miracle. I implore all of those on the Left to think very carefully about how they seek to play politics. Next time, it could be very, very different.
murder Member	Sun Jul 14 12:08:04 "I'm amazed that in less that a day they identified the shooter from DNA. No mention of him having a criminal record. They said he wasn't carrying any ID, so where did the get a match from?" Facial recognition, prints, dental records ... or someone just called up and said, hey my son is missing.
murder Member	Sun Jul 14 12:08:45 And great, now we have dueling Trump shot II threads. Why are you people so chaotic?
Forwyn Member	Sun Jul 14 12:47:43 Director of the Secret Service, Kimberly Cheatle Wonderful diversity hire
TheChildren Member	Sun Jul 14 12:50:35 i just learned that scum of da earth nypost initially blamed this on a chinaman... imagine da scummyness, da pure patheticness of this. then after realizin it was anotha whitey, they quietly corrected da article.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jul 14 13:55:25 'chinaman' is offensive to you
murder Member	Sun Jul 14 14:40:14 "I'm amazed that in less that a day they identified the shooter from DNA. No mention of him having a criminal record. They said he wasn't carrying any ID, so where did the get a match from?" Turns out they traced the firearm to his father.
murder Member	Sun Jul 14 14:46:09 What we know about the Trump rally gunman so far http://www...-thomas-crooks-invs/index.html
Average Ameriacn Member	Sun Jul 14 14:54:36 "Crooks worked at Bethel Park Skilled Nursing and Rehab" So he was a fag.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jul 14 16:22:00 " ... Crooks previously sought to join his High School rifle club but was rejected and asked not to return, two students who were members of the team at the time told ABC News. Both students said Crooks was a "bad shot," with one adding he wasn't the right "fit." "He didn't just not make the team, he was asked not to come back because how bad of a shot he was, it was considered like, dangerous," said Jameson Myers to ABC News of his former classmate, Thomas Crooks. ... " http://abc...egistered-republican/15058563/ i guess he showed them... sorta... most likely isn't going to be a trained antifa communist marxist yadda yadda that the nutbags want... just some outcast (murder's link seems to dispel the made-up claim going around that he only registered R to corruptly vote in the primary... as registered years ago right when first eligible & apparently didn't even vote in the primary...)
williamthebastard Member	Sun Jul 14 16:54:33 "Facial recognition, prints, dental records ... or someone just called up and said, hey my son is missing." They traced the owner of the gun to his father.
Rugian Member	Sun Jul 14 17:15:30 Biden is giving an address tonight (8 PM EST) Apparently his handlers are confident that he's having a period of lucidity right now (good thing for the country that this didn't happen 2-4 weeks from now when his senility might flare back up)
Rugian Member	Sun Jul 14 17:31:11 Also kudos to Biden for holding the speech after his new self-imposed bedtime. My guess is he'll take no questions from the press though. Let's face it, Biden's morally bankrupt handlers are leaping on this as an opportunity to show the Democratic Party that Biden can come across as a non-idiot, at least when he's reading a pre-prepared speech in the most tightly controlled of situations. Biden and his people are such pieces of shit.
Hrothgar Member	Sun Jul 14 18:49:16 It can't be stated enough how "game over" this election already is for Dems. Propping up a geezer keeping his true condition secret until too late, a debate to make it obvious, and now an attempted assassination on the opponent to galvanize anyone even slightly under Trumps spell. I despise the Trumpster, but any hopes of him losing are gone within this last month.
Forwyn Member	Sun Jul 14 19:02:23
Rugian Member	Sun Jul 14 19:27:28 Biden's speech was short He only made one obvious flub...he meant to say "former President Trump" but instead said "former Trump." He tried to tie the assassination attempt to January 6 and the attack on Paul Pelosi...no mention of the BLM/Antifa riots or the Steve Scalise shooting, of course. The general gist of the speech was an exhortation for a calming of the political rhetoric and for each side to respect the other. The problem of course is that this sentiment runs counter to Biden's entire claimed reason for running. If he truly believes that Trump winning would end democracy as we know it in the United States, then how could his side possibly tolerate a Trump victory? It's bullshit of course, as Biden himself has previously admitted...he doesn't believe that Trump will end democracy, he's just in this race for his own ego. But that's the line he's been using with the party faithful for years now. Trump will utterly destroy our system of government...but guys, you should totally respect the ability of Republicans to support him! His handlers haven't yet figured out how to fit that square peg in a round hole.
Osamaisdaworstpresid Member	Sun Jul 14 19:39:14 "he meant to say "former President Trump" but instead said "former Trump."" Mebe Biden thinkz trumps ded u never no wit da dementia
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Jul 14 21:25:42 [Rugian]: "he tried to tie the assassination attempt to January 6 and the attack on Paul Pelosi" That's such a scumbag thing for Biden to do. That was a major talking point in the left-wing psychopath echo chambers yesterday. E.g., • thread 1 • https://imgur.com/gallery/this-5pwAEDJ • https://imgur.com/gallery/list-OwwUT5e Even when making a speech where he's supposedly calling for unity across the aisle, he does the same thing he did at the inauguration speech, which is to feed into left-wing psychopath memes of division and political violence. And many people have been rightly pointing out for years that this is basically Schrödinger's Hitler: Trump is simultaneously • literally Hitler and wants to destroy democracy to create a fascist American state which means that no act or fraud is too immoral to stop Hitler 2.0 (including lawfare, voter fraud, and a55a55ination) AND • the Democrats do not want political violence and this should be solved at the ballot box (hence Trump is not actually Hitler 2.0, you can all calm down, it's all just propaganda, why are you taking it so seriously, bro? 46 threads, you say?). -=-= Anyway, people have now confirmed through primary sources that it is indeed the same Crooks who voted for a Progressive political organization following Biden's inauguration. https://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/fecimg/?202102049425405473 This is a voting-records search which connects the same Crooks to the Progressive-fund donation: https://www.pavoterservices.pa.gov/Pages/voterregistrationstatus.aspx DOB: September 20th, 2003 Name: Thomas Crooks Addy: 2506 Milford Drive County: Allegheny County Both links imaged for posterity: http://imgur.com/a/8xnRKXc You'll notice that the murder-link that tumblefag cites does *not* dispel the primary-ballot poisoning scheme. The article mentions that Crooks has only voted in the 2022 midterm election, and it can only speculate on how he voted given his progressive-fund donation and the fact that his district voted slightly in favor of Biden. If he is a leftist, he was probably too jacked up on SSRIs to remember to poison the April 2024 GOP primaries in Pennsylvania. That's why Democrats tend to want mandatory voting and automatic voting; they need their over-medicated and worthless bio-weapons to vote even from their drug-induced comas.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jul 14 21:41:06 what has been Trump's message against political violence? (now or ever) him joking about the bodyslammed reporter... him joking about Pelosi attack... him wistfully noting a time when protesters could be taken out on a stretcher... him posting video of his cultists running red lights & indiscriminately bear-spraying pedestrians... him NEVER decrying the death threats that always occur after he purposely names foes on twitter (reported on numerous times, & he watches all coverage of himself, he KNOWS it happens, he WANTS it to)... him resisting all urging by staff/family/Faux hosts to tell J6 rioters to stop... (& Trump DID factually try to end democracy... his plan indeed was to disregard the vote & get appointed leader... it's not debatable, that -was- the plan (including later wanting to terminate all rules including the constitution to still achieve it)... plus his favorite leaders around the world are all autocrats, w/ a new love for Viktor Orban who will show him how to ruin democracy as he's doing... plus his plan to take out tens of thousands of gov't employees to replace w/ loyalists... loyalists being recruited by Project 2025 people, Trump claiming he knows nothing about it doesn't mean he isn't going to hire them all, where else will he find them? he's not doing his own work...ever)
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Jul 14 22:16:21 [tumblefag (TDS bot; death cultist)]: "what has been Trump's message against political violence? (now or ever)" Time for tumblefag to ignore the global totalitarian pedophile party that he directly and openly supports (he is a pedophile supporter and likely pedophile) and which has been openly referring to Trump as Hitler as a standardized talking point in order to provoke a55a55ination attempts against him (which they successfully accomplished). ...and instead attempt to derail with a bunch of slant-lies about the God Emperor Trump, who will purge the tumblefag-snakes from the West under a mandate from Heaven. Tumblefag's adoption of all of the propaganda thought-terminating clichés and memes is merely him showing us that we are, indeed, "talking to the TV" when we talk to tumblefag. This is why you cannot convince him that he is in a cult despite him so obviously being in a cult: we are not talking to tumblefag, we are talking to the TV, and the TV does not talk back. It is simple: • The Regime media's lies about Trump trying to end "our democracy", their lies about January 6th, their lies about the election Have been completely undermined and made small and bitch-like by • the fact that there was a direct attempt to a55a55inate a president and the Regime's primary opposition January 6th? Some bullshit about "hang Trump" and a fake gallows? Some bullshit about stochastic terrorism? All bullshit. The DNC tried to get Trump a55a55inated and almost succeeded. They no longer have a voice. It is time for them to be completely disenfranchised, disempowered, absolutely defeated now and forever — rightfully subjugated and brought back to the margins. If it is their destiny to be slaves (as they have proudly proclaimed of themselves by supporting the pedophile totalitarian puppet Biden), then let them be slaves not to their ugly vices and apocalyptic vision for society but to the virtuous and the Great Visions that the noble have for this West that the noble fight for and love.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Jul 14 22:17:26 *"Some bullshit about "hang [Pence]""
Dukhat Member	Sun Jul 14 23:07:22 Dude was a conservative and registered republican. There was an old man in Pennsylvania who donated to ActBlue who had the same name. They are different people. No it wasn't a chinese man as some right-wing bullshit sources said. And it wasn't that Antifa guy that kept showing up in right-wing media. Thank god it was a white dude with a right-wing background though. The fucking trump maniacs would have a field day trying to get revenge. Many will still try to as the first wave of disinformation are considered facts to some of these bozos.
TheChildren Member	Sun Jul 14 23:49:08 i can say chinaman, u cannot. same way a nigga can say nigga and a jew can say jew.
Dukhat Member	Mon Jul 15 00:32:20 Turns out the donation looks like it was from the same dude. It was like 15 bucks on the day Biden got inaugurated. Dude lost a bet with a friend for sure and paid up.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Jul 15 01:13:16 Loving that Dukhat came in here and said some false bullshit with a superior tone, then corrected himself less than 2 hours later. Imagine if he'd bothered reading in the first place.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Jul 15 01:20:23 not to feed the troll/nutbag... but on: "January 6th? Some bullshit about "hang Trump" and a fake gallows? Some bullshit about stochastic terrorism? All bullshit" it's just so embarrassing... & concerning... i've specifically noted to this particular nutbag that i'm NOT talking about the riot, the riot has nothing to do w/ it (& not what the J6 criminal charges on Trump are about, btw) --- Trump was still trying to 'win' up to & on that day, but NO, not by the riot (though he was liking it & hoping it would help), & not by any lawful means (states don't have laws where they just decide to ignore the vote & pick the winner as he was asking him to do... & no Pence had no legal power to do ANY of the various plans Trump wanted him to do) & i realize our resident nutbag not grasping this concept is meaningless, but it's the whole fucking R side... nobody seems capable of recognizing what Trump was doing w/ his Pence plan or all the efforts w/ the DOJ & on the state legislatures w/ all of it factually proven, tons of witness testimony, tons of documents, tons of it being done PUBLICLY are they pretending not to understand as just indefensible (possibly true for the leaders)? or some mental trauma block preventing being to absorb what he was clearly doing?... so fucking weird (& no, saying 'but they made covid changes!!!' doesn't mean 'well, Trump wins then'... may as well not have had the election, the changes were before it & somehow it means Trump auto-wins... totally makes sense... but NO, Trump was not even going by that stupid argument, his was worse, just pretending mass fraud found, w/ claims debunked by his own people, or completely & obviously making up shit like the 10,000 dead/out-of-state/underage voters with NO EVIDENCE of it... NO LIST of ANY names, so where did the figures come from??... COMPLETELY OBVIOUSLY MADE UP... how is that acceptable????) so fucking bizarre (sorry if this provokes another nutbag post)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Jul 15 01:29:38 anyway, if any Trump supporter wants to admit the factual truth that he was trying to be appointed winner up to and including on J6 with absolutely no intent of ever proving he actually won, you get 10 respect points... for acknowledging obvious factual truth (and feel free to notice that’s not democracy) he was doing so even long after, that’s when his ‘terminate the constitution’ post happened, and he was still asking states to decertify and put in the ‘rightful winner’ he is not lawful and has no concern for democracy... he just wants whatever benefits him
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Jul 15 03:30:31 tumblefag saying more retarded shit. Same DNC psychosis talking points that he spews every time he wants to change the subject. Delusional nutbag faggot bitchboy has fallen for so many hoaxes that it's outright pathetic. He'll say anything to distract from the fact that his totalitarian pedophile death cult just caused an MK Ultra useful idiot to attempt to a55a55inate a U.S. president — invalidating all of his little bitchboy weakling arguments about "[muh insurrection]" "[muh overturning]" "[muh show trials]". He hasn't got a leg to stand on and will be rightly destroyed in the manner that is fitting for the depth of his treasons. .. Regarding Schrödinger's Hitler (above meme), AOC put two Tweets right next to each other that perfectly illustrate the concept: Tweet 1: (Trump is not Hitler; political violence is never necessary; solve this at the ballot box) ------------- [July 13th, 2024, 2012 CST] http://x.com/AOC/status/1812294071261487603 "There is no place for political violence, including the horrific incident we just witnessed in Pennsylvania. It is absolutely unacceptable and must be denounced in the strongest terms. My heart goes out to all the victims and I wish the former President a speedy recovery." ------------- Tweet 2: (Trump is literally Hitler doing a fascism; all acts are justified to defeat Hitler 2.0, including election fraud, lawfare, and a55a55ination) ------------- [July 14th, 2024, 1900 CST] "If you’re a “senior Democrat” that feels this way, you should absolutely retire and make space for true leadership that refuses to resign themselves to fascism. This kind of leadership is functionally useless to the American people. Retire." ------------- In Orwellian doublethink, cultists can keep both thoughts in their head at once. Trump is "literally Hitler" who did an "insurrection" and a "fascism" and tried to "overturn 'our democracy'". Simultaneously, no Democrat would commit election fraud, no Democrat would use lawfare (it's just normal court processes bro!), and no one wants political violence (except all the leftists in this forum!).
murder Member	Mon Jul 15 07:48:04 "Both students said Crooks was a "bad shot," with one adding he wasn't the right "fit."" In other words he was a nerd and they didn't want him around. If someone is a bad shot, you don't tell him to go away and not come back, you tell him to practice, get better, and try again.
murder Member	Mon Jul 15 07:51:05 Every time you think Cherub Cow has gone off the deep end, she finds a deeper end to go off of. :o)
murder Member	Mon Jul 15 08:02:33 People are a fucking clown show. Morons running around saying "There is no place for political violence" as if Donald Trump wasn't responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans, if not hundreds of thousands. As if he hadn't tried to overthrow the government and to make himself dictator. As if he hadn't stripped people of their rights and was coming around for a second pass of the same. You can't kill baby Hitler because he hasn't murdered millions of people yet, and apparently you can't kill adult Hitler because political violence is wrong. Biden and the rest of these morons would have prosecuted the Germans who tried to murder Hitler. Taking out the garbage is always acceptable.
Average Ameriacn Member	Mon Jul 15 10:27:57 Vice MTG! http://x.com/mtgreenee/status/1812551674705195066 Marjorie Taylor Greene We are in a battle between GOOD and EVIL The Democrats are the party of pedophiles, murdering the innocent unborn, violence, and bloody, meaningless, endless wars. They want to lock up their political opponents, and terrorize innocent Americans who would tell the truth about it. The Democrat party is flat out evil, and yesterday they tried to murder President Trump.
Paramount Member	Mon Jul 15 10:54:18 ” Taking out the garbage is always acceptable.” Yes and you should start with your current administration.
murder Member	Mon Jul 15 10:57:43 If we do, Sweden and the rest of NATO is going to be fighting Russia without the US, and possibly with the US helping Russia. I hope you've been cleaning your rifle. :o)
Paramount Member	Mon Jul 15 11:06:37 Nah, if you do, the risk of a war between Nato and Russia will diminish or disappear.
Seb Member	Mon Jul 15 11:24:33 Murder: No European govt is seriously expecting anything useful defence wise from the US. It's clear you are far too fallen to decadence to be a reliable security partner. Even from a supply chain perspective, the limits you place on Ukraine regarding use of kit is seen as a vulnerability akin to china being in the military supply chain.
murder Member	Mon Jul 15 16:14:19 "No European govt is seriously expecting anything useful defence wise from the US. It's clear you are far too fallen to decadence to be a reliable security partner. Even from a supply chain perspective, the limits you place on Ukraine regarding use of kit is seen as a vulnerability akin to china being in the military supply chain." Nor should you expect anything. But Europe isn't close to ready to fight on it's own. Things would go from bad to worse in a hurry for Paramount if Trump won.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jul 15 17:08:53 "No European govt is seriously expecting anything useful defence wise from the US." Editors note, the US is acually the backbone of european defense.
Seb Member	Mon Jul 15 17:56:02 Murder: Europe can kick Russia's arse - only thing that matters is supply chain and Europe's reshoring that. It will be a while before the US figures out what European strategic autonomy implies for trade, IP and finance globally; but it ain't going to be pretty. Sam: Nope. It's seen in European capitals as a crippling dependency. They can see the US doesn't have the spine to oppose Russia, will sabotage European defense for fear of escalation, and that half your population would happily sell us down the river because that's what the memes say is good. Basically that the French were right all along. Things are moving quickly now. Whatever capabilities the US has on paper, they are unreliable because the US is full of Sams, Rugian, CCs and Habebes and the sensible people won't stand up to them.
Seb Member	Tue Jul 16 06:14:48 I mean seriously, what do you think is going on in UK strategic defence planning when the likely future US VP says the current UK govt are Islamists? Big red lights: reduce critical acute vulnerabilities on supply chain where US could prevent UK action, and strengthen military and strategic relationships with other allies. The UK both as a member and then afterwards, under labour, coalition and conservatives, has historically been opposed to any European defence structures outside NATO. Now we are actively seeking to create one. Even the last conservative govt was. Sure we are hedging our bets and trying to ride AUKUS to get the best of both worlds in terms of tech transfers, but fundamentally the UK under both the last govt and this one do not think the US is a reliable security partner when it comes to our actual defence. Everyone, even your closest allies, are moving away from you.
Rugian Member	Tue Jul 16 06:23:24 Seb Your heartfelt concern for our once and future president is truly touching. Only you and jergul could turn an assassination attempt thread into a topic about European defensive capabilities lol.
Seb Member	Tue Jul 16 06:43:41 Americans gonna be American, is my view on this. Difficult to feel a lot of sympathy for Trump given his repeated calls for violence, being shot at by a republican voter, using the archetypal gun that republicans have bent of backwards to ensure is easily available to nuts. This isn't the country you and he live in, this is the country you and he advocated for and staunchly defended. You don't want sympathy, surely it should be congratulations: this is just your American Dream realised. Trump has also made very clear where his sympathies lie on what for me is the cornerstone issue: the war in Ukraine. So from my perspective, that's far more important than being predictably shot at by a crazy guy. I'm sorry you are disappointed that I'm not crying crocodile tears personally for Trump - I think it's bad that he got shot in principle (and worse if he had died) - but his politics is shit and his presidency will be a disaster for the US and the West. For the things that matter he's not an ally, he wants to break the historic alliance between the UK and the US, and to the extent he's a victim of political violence, he's a proponent of a more violent approach to politics. What do you and he think was going to happen?
Seb Member	Tue Jul 16 06:44:20 Also, jergul isn't even in the thread.
Rugian Member	Tue Jul 16 07:49:15 Seb Fair enough. No sympathy is due to politicians that have different political opinions from your own. The part about the rhetoric is just hilarious, given that the American left is significantly worse on that front. Republicans are fascists that want to destroy democracy, put black people back in chains, and oppress women; they are deplorables whose political opinions should not be considered acceptable in modern society; half of what they spew is misinformation that should be censored. They are stupid, ignorant, racist, and a danger to our country. You're okay with all of that discourse apparently...just not Trump's. Okay. Jergul hasn't posted here, but if he had he would absolutely have done the same derailing as you (maybe more along the lines about how Trump getting shot at is somehow to Russia's benefit, but you get the drift). You two are, uh, single-minded in your political foci.
Seb Member	Tue Jul 16 09:26:01 Rugian: "Different political opinions" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. I have different political opinions from George W Bush and I'd be quite sympathetic if he got shot. Also Cheney or Rumsfeld. Trump doesn't have "different political opinions" to me. Trump represents an active threat to my countries security. And yeah, he got shot - maybe don't use violent rhetoric, encourage violence, rile your supporters up, and do everything you can to get guns. It's like how I can dig up relatively little sympathy for a drunk guy that gets into his car after a 12 hour binging session and crashes it. Again, not so much his opinion as the inevitable consequences of serial self indulgence.
Seb Member	Tue Jul 16 09:26:32 "given that the American left is significantly worse on that front." Hahahaha no.
Seb Member	Tue Jul 16 09:33:04 "Republicans are fascists that want to destroy democracy" You do, are and there's evidence trump has attempted to destroy democracy. "put black people back in chains," Dude, I can see social media, and all the nutty folks pushing that. " and oppress women;" You've literally prevented women who need abortion accessing it until they are on the middle of critical life threatening episodes. "They are deplorables whose political opinions should not be considered acceptable in modern society;" I completely agree with that. What they haven't done is repeatedly suggested politician, judges, officials, journalists should be subject to violence. Republicans run fucking political adds with candidates in camo and guns "hunting" their opponents. Republicans have violent marches to storm government buildings to disrupt the electoral process. Republicans run torchlit marches with fascist regalia chanting Jews will not replace us, where counter protesters are killed. That's rather fucking different. The right is scarily violent, and it's no coincidence that this guy was very clearly of the right.
Seb Member	Tue Jul 16 09:35:49 So, basically, yeah very limited sympathy. This is your dream, not mine. In my country, this violent rhetoric would be crossing the line into criminal behaviour, and such rifles are banned. You are the guy that stands up and says all of this is perfectly good and then gets surprised when people act on these freedoms you view as untouchable and act on this idea that politicians you disagree with should be taken out by violent means.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Jul 16 13:25:05 Youve been mooching off US military spending since world war 2 seb. About time you do a little bit of work yourselves, but you probably won't.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Jul 16 13:32:20 "In my country, this violent rhetoric would be crossing the line into criminal behaviour" Editors note, sebs country allows muslims and leftists to scream for the murder of jews nonstop.
obaminated Member	Tue Jul 16 14:20:15 Seb walked right into that chasm of hypocrisy and bullshit and was blissfully ignorant of it.
obaminated Member	Tue Jul 16 16:26:30 http://www...ories-trump-assassination.html Haha, hey look TW, there are people just like you shamelessly promoting conspiracy theories because they just can't believe that trump could be shot and then immediately get up and shake his fist in the air and yell fight. Trump just made different. No wonder women let him grab em by the pussy.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Jul 16 16:46:56 where am i promoting any conspiracy theory? why do you people keep applying things to me i never say...
Seb Member	Tue Jul 16 17:30:42 Sam: What is the logic of continuing to allow US missile defense and early warning radars, along with logistics bases, satellite tracking and control etc. if the US can't be relied upon to defend Europe. They are all eventually going to go. "sebs country allows muslims and leftists to scream for the murder of jews nonstop." I literally posted multiple accounts of the individuals that called for violence in far less direct terms than republicans do being hunted down by the police, arrested, tried and sentenced; and pointing out that when this happens to white people in the UK you call it "being locked up for hurtful words".
Habebe Member	Tue Jul 16 17:37:48 Why should the US defend Europe if Europe does not pay? Vassal states pay tribute.
Seb Member	Tue Jul 16 18:54:24 Habebe: China banned Google, and in a decade produced five tech giants of equivalent scale and technical capability. All the LLMs are built of transformers. That was the IP of a British based company bought by Google. Why did we allow us capital to buy that up? Ask yourself why Europe allows US companies into its market space at all. Recall how they US industrialised by massive copyright theft and patent infringement. Why does Europe allow the US firms such access to European markets? Strategic Autonomy is about taking *all* of that away and off the table. The thinking in Europe is that it cannot allow technology and critical supply chains to be a matter of comparative advantage within a trade relationship if the US isn't a reliable partner as they may be used as leverage against Europes critical interests. They need to be onshored. This means, essentially, cutting out US suppliers and creating protected market spaces for domestic firms. That's your tribute, that's what you are losing. EU based revenues from tech and increased competition for market share in the rest of the world. The process is pretty much irreversible now, but will unfold over the next decade. The next question becomes: why do we host US radars, satellite stations, logistics hubs, naval bases, air bases if we aren't in a strategic defence relationship? I mean sure, we turn of Thule and Fylingdales and suddenly the US notice from a Chinese or Russian first strike goes down to 2 minutes. But that's... not our problem really?
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Jul 16 19:37:38 [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "People are a fucking clown show. Morons running around saying "There is no place for political violence" as if Donald Trump wasn't responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans, if not hundreds of thousands. As if he hadn't tried to overthrow the government and to make himself dictator. As if he hadn't stripped people of their rights and was coming around for a second pass of the same." What the fuck is this faggot even talking about? • Thousands of Americans? Is this that propaganda where CNN was running the COVID death count 24 hours a day and insinuating that it was Trump's fault — and then promptly removing the counter after Biden's inauguration even though far more died under Biden than Trump? And remember how the DNC called Trump "xenophobic" for wanting to close flights from China — effectively resulting in more flights from China and faster early spread? Yeah, probably you don't. Get another booster to cope, coward. • Overthrow the government? lol. "Overthrow" hoax. • "dictator". lol. "Dictator" hoax • "stripped people of their rights"? lol. Pure delusion. Is this that "[emergaderz, the Supreme Court sent abortion back to the states. Literally Handmaid's Tale]" meme? Fucking idiot. [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "Taking out the garbage is always acceptable." Like I correctly stated in the last thread, when you are talking to murder or tumblefag [and apparently seb as well — surprise surprise!], you are talking to the ideological clone of the would-be a55a55in. These people are evil. They are politically unhinged psychopaths. They are our absolute enemies. [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "I hope you've been cleaning your rifle. :o)" We'll just put the leftists on the front lines. You traitors are so willing to kill White people in proxy wars to clear space for non-European migrants that I'm sure you'll have no issue with finally getting off your asses to take responsibility for your unearned authority. [seb (fucking retard)]: "No European govt is seriously expecting anything useful defence wise from the US." [Sam Adams]: "Editors note, the US is acually the backbone of european defense." Yup. seb is, as usual, a fucking delusional liar. Whatever bullshit red herring he's floating right now about "[hur hur, blame Sam, Rugian, and CC for opposing policies that the Regime is fully instating regardless of Sam/Rugian/CC opinions]" is totally undermined by the fact that the U.S. has — in fact — been the primary supporter of Ukraine by a huge fucking margin. http://www...ary-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/ This is more of sebtard's ridiculous pretense that the right has been in power all along (his absolute lie that the Tories were "right-wing") — even as Trump has just appointed a VP who isn't even remotely close to my political alignment. Who the fuck does sebtard think supports my policies in office right now? I basically only agree with Rep. Massie. Meanwhile, the only limit our government has put on Ukraine spending is that they'll make a half-assed attempt to audit where some of the money has gone, and sebfag's fear-mongering about a Trump presidency is completely misplaced since Trump's intent would be to *stop* the war *not* ignore it. Or does he fear that Europa will have to actually do something positive for the West in exchange for their external security? Oh! You want free health care for migrants but you don't want to pay for proxy wars? Get rekt. sebtard is probably the biggest fucking retard I've ever interacted with. [seb (fucking retard)]: • "Difficult to feel a lot of sympathy for Trump given his repeated calls for violence," What calls for violence, you fucking liar? Did he use the full weight of Regime media to call Biden a Chinese agent? Oh wait! Trump doesn't own Regime media! Oops! • "being shot at by a republican voter," Low-information fucking idiot. There is still no proof of his voting history beyond him *registering* as Republican and him *donating* to a *Progressive* political group. • "using the archetypal gun that republicans have bent of backwards to ensure is easily available to nuts" Suddenly sebfag is willing to admit that he's anti-gun after pretending in a previous thread that I was mis-stating that he's a commie gun-grabber (as if I didn't remember a previous discussion we'd had where he was trying to convince me to oppose gun rights). Fucking totalitarian liar faggot. • "this is the country you and he advocated for and staunchly defended." Again with this lie. sebfag once again pretending that our politics are in charge. Leftists are *exclusively* in control of nearly all institutions, and in their tremendous delusions they still pretend that the right are in power and that *that's* why their lies are not selling. These people are subversives who must be deported or punished in accordance with their level of treason. Seb would be happiest in Madagascar, would he not? [Rugian]: "The part about the rhetoric is just hilarious, given that the American left is significantly worse on that front." Absolutely and irrefutably. • Who committed the 2020 BLM/Antifa insurrection in which police were executed, civilians terrorized, and billions in property damage caused? The left (DNC). • Who stormed the White House and was such a threat to then President Trump's safety that the Secret Service evacuated Trump to the presidential bunker? The left. • Who attempted to murder a sitting Supreme Court justice? The left — multiple times. • Who executed Trump supporter Aaron Danielson in cold blood? The left. • Who murdered Ashli Babbitt? The left. • Who pardoned Ashli Babbitt's murderer? The left. • Who held January 6th political prisoners for months on misdemeanor trespassing charges? The left. • Who actively encourages the freeing of criminals from prison, the under-charging of criminal offenders, and "equity" in criminal justice (i.e., letting criminals go if the numbers don't look good for certain minorities)? The left. • Who murdered Samantha Woll, a Jewish woman, in Detroit? The left. • Who beats up Asian people for sport and who dropped the story when it was clear who was doing it? The left. • Who wants a White genocide and has been using political policy to effect it? The left. • Who has been encouraging political violence against Trump since 2016 with lies about him being a "fascist" "Nazi" "Dictator" "Hitler 2.0" "threat to our democracy", precipitating an MK Ultra useful idiot to attempt an a55a55ination? The left. [seb (fucking retard)]: "Trump doesn't have "different political opinions" to me. Trump represents an active threat to my countries security." Sounds like your country has faggots in power. Why is your country so insecure? Isn't Labour in charge now? Oh! I get it. You're against re-engaging colonialism? You don't want Britain to have an empire? You want to be little bitches but still get handouts from an economically enslaved United States? Get rekt, bitchboy. If your security depends on these United States, maybe you shouldn't be trying to subvert the West and destroy its people. *Maybe* the White people that you want to genocide *might* just be your friends if you didn't... you know... try to genocide them? Oh! I get it! You want to genocide White people *and* somehow survive as an enslaved economic hub. You want Globalism-Assisted-Suicide (GAS) but to *not* die from the suicide? Weird. Maybe try importing a few hundred thousand Bengalis? Diversity is your strength! A massive load of Indians will defend you from Russia! Zimbabwe will go "total war" for Britain! Give Zimbabe's child soldiers passports and they will be just as British as anyone! Surely the foreigners you imported will fight for you! [seb (fucking retard)]: "In my country, this violent rhetoric would be crossing the line into criminal behaviour" [Sam Adams]: "Editors note, sebs country allows muslims and leftists to scream for the murder of jews nonstop. " Yep. And sebfag shamelessly showing — once again — that he is a totalitarian psychopath. Funny how when he has a meltdown his solution is to make your very speech illegal. It's just like when I embarrassed jergfag and he tried to retaliate by getting the underdog threads deleted for spam, or how patom was such a tyrant mod in the Swirve forums that he'd be deleting music links from the music threads, killing what little activity those forums had. I, meanwhile, would love to continue having sebfag post and speak. It is only that *after* the Troubles ahead end — should the left fail in their global slave revolt — that sebfag, like so many other leftists, should be charged for his treasons against the West and be punished appropriately. That is a long ways away from policing his speech. And maybe the left will win! [obaminated]: "Haha, hey look TW, there are people just like you shamelessly promoting conspiracy theories" [tumblefag]: "where am i promoting any conspiracy theory?" You see how fucking illiterate tumblefag is? He said people **like you**, you fucking idiot. TLDR: sebfag attempted to hijack the thread, but the truth is simple: The left are such violent psychopaths and yellow journalists that they have been stoking the flames of division for years, culminating in an MK Ultra useful idiot attempting to a55a55inate a former president to stop him from running (and just before the Republican Convention would have allowed Regime favorite Nimarata Randhawa to slip in!). Desperate as they are, they want you to see *anything* aside from the fact that they *very* much want Trump dead and that that is their **explicit goal** — simultaneously, they totally don't want political violence (wink wink) and it's *your* fault somehow for them wanting to murder Trump anyways! Once again, all of this makes sense if you realize that people such as sebtard, murder, and tumblefag have the exact ideology of the shooter. Their psychosis cannot be satisfied unless they have sex with Trump, kill him, or see him killed by someone with the same mental failings as them. They want this because they are traitors to the West and want to see the West destroyed.
murder Member	Tue Jul 16 20:17:02 "Editors note, sebs country allows muslims and leftists to scream for the murder of jews nonstop." But not for the jewing of murder. I just wanted to make that clear.
TheChildren Member	Wed Jul 17 01:06:14 "China banned Google, and in a decade produced five tech giants of equivalent scale and technical capability. All the LLMs are built of transformers. That was the IP of a British based company bought by Google. Why did we allow us capital to buy that up? Ask yourself why Europe allows US companies into its market space at all. Recall how they US industrialised by massive copyright theft and patent infringement. " >> so it took 30 years 2 finally wake up from vassal status? lmao
TheChildren Member	Wed Jul 17 01:10:48 also seems like everyone flip floppin stances in murica land now.
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 17 03:16:24 "China banned Google, and in a decade produced five tech giants of equivalent scale and technical capability." Hahahahaha What chinese companies are on par with US companies? By what standards? I thought China was supposed to have far surpassed the US by now in all major super power standards, what happened? China is Japan circa 1990. Remember Japan was going to over take the US? People confuse 3rd world nations playing catch up with competing with the US. Why was Britain so impoverished that they had to sell their IP to companies who can afford it? PS. Dick cheney is invincible, he eats bullets and spits them back out. The man *****literally ****** Hasn't had a heart best for like what, a decade? (Idk the exact time, but it's been years)
Seb Member	Wed Jul 17 03:31:59 The children: Not vassal - the way Europe saw it was a common joint venture: an open, integrated Atlantic then global economy of mutual dependency. The US has areas of economic comparative advantage and Europe has it's, underpinned by an American led security regime. Once the security regime goes (plus the US increasingly 'cheating' on free market rules by allowing monopolies to develop to conquer global industrial segments) the logic collapses. Europe must look to its own security, it must remove US dependencies both in direct military capability (which is pretty easy) but also in supply chain; which means reshoring whole industries like tech which they've been largely content to let the US dominate as an acceptable consequence of a largely free extended common market across the Atlantic. What American citizens don't realise it's that the US, like Britain before it, has been benefitting from the perks of a trade empire, but you can't 'give up' the empire while expecting to maintain the economic strengths that come with it. Empire is something you are, not something you posses. Over time, the US population will feel the effect of this, but will not be able to pinpoint the cause. They'll probably blame mean selfish European protectionism but yeah, Europe isn't going to just randomly let all it's wealth and jobs flow to the US without benefit.
TheChildren Member	Wed Jul 17 05:28:44 "Not vassal - the way Europe saw it was a common joint venture: an open, integrated Atlantic then global economy of mutual dependency. The US has areas of economic comparative advantage and Europe has it's, underpinned by an American led security regime. " >> then u was delusional 2 begin with. almost everyone outside of ur europe saw it 4 wut it was. ___________________________ "What chinese companies are on par with US companies? By what standards? " >> china doesnt do ol tech. China has NEW TECH. all of them vastly superior 2 ur companies and they scared shitless, son. idk wut u been smokin. china has da best new unicorns. u got smoke and mirrors called spacex and tesla. not real. snakesoils.
TheChildren Member	Wed Jul 17 05:31:41 temu is destroyin amazon, kiddo. hence all da propaganda bout temu all a sudden. ur amazon had fake walk-in stores where they hired indians 2 watch u on cctv and charge u and pretended 2 be supa advanced. smokes and mirrors. spacex hasnt done anything remotely significant mars or moon. neva accomplished jackdiddlysquat. theres no hypaloop. they lied 2 u man. how long does ur foolz live in alicewonderland.
Seb Member	Wed Jul 17 06:53:24 Habebe: "By what standards" Number of transactions, quality and price etc. You are having to resort to trying to get the rest of the world to ban their 5G tech and social media apps. They have the compute scale to. A lot of this is invisible to you because it's in Chinese. But the point wasn't "wow China amazing", it's that building and operating AWS/Google scale infrastructure is pretty easy - to grow similar businesses what you need to do is to progressively exclude the US service providers to create the market share needed to get going. That's all. Very doable.
Seb Member	Wed Jul 17 06:57:01 Basically, just as the US is seeking to de-globalise and disentangle itself from China because it doesn't trust China's intentions; Europe has decided to do the same from the US.
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 17 10:28:07 Watch seb avoid answering questions.... Europe planned on basically doing Elon does now by what? 2030? For 50x the cost? When europenre a lly sets it's mind to things, it can achieve in the future less than US companies do in the past. You can be salty all you want, but for the foreseeable future, the US is still the only real super power. China peaked, like Japan in 1990 and Europe cant get their shit together. Im sure the re-emergence of communism will really help you be competitive though. Im not saying it's impossible for Europe to get it's sbit together, time can flow backwards, it's possible, I've just not seen any evidence to suggest it WILL happen. Europe has great engineers, but the fact of the matter is they have not demonstrated an ability make use of such great minds and ve competitive in the global market. All Wozniak and no Jobs.
Seb Member	Wed Jul 17 11:55:47 Habebe: Twitter ain't a significant thing industry wise. Thinking more Amazon/AWS - and yeah, pretty easy to do if the will is there. It will play out over a couple of decades. "it can achieve in the future less than US companies do in the past." Well yeah, but that's like pointing out that US firms are still playing catch-up on some of the tech that the EU and China provide in 5G. You'll catch up in that. The point is *right now* the US is benefitting hugely from having not only access to markets they won't in future, but dominance in them, but it won't on the future because the EU literally cannot afford a supply chain dependency on a country that's pursuing America First and will cut deals with our enemies at our expense. Whether you think your tech sector will be better than the European one is neither here nor there, the point is you won't get the money. So that's your tribute you are getting now, and the money you are leaving on the table thanks to "America First". Honestly it's quite amazing that you are trading global economic hegemony for the accounting benefit of keeping a bunch of weapons stocks on your books as assets which you will never be able to liquidate, that will have no book value at all in 5-10 years and will then cost to destroy. Real looney tune stuff. But hey ho, the fact you think this is a sensible thing to do is precisely why it's necessary to cut dependency on the US to begin with. "the US is still the only real super power." The US stopped being a super power when it stopped being a credible security guarantor. Now you've just got a really big military, but far less influence because like, who cares? You've signalled nobody can rely on the US coming to their aide, they can't even rely on using American kit they purchased, so if the US wants something, unless they are prepared to go to war for it, why should anyone care? You can also threaten economic sanctions, but then, why would the EU or any of the other big economic blocks go along with it, given the strategic logic of the "west" no longer exists...
Seb Member	Wed Jul 17 12:01:59 "Im sure the re-emergence of communism will really help you be competitive though" Not communism, any more than you guys raising trade barriers to foreign production is communism. Capitalism and free markets, just excluding the US suppliers or forcing relocation/ locally controlled subsidiaries with tech transfer.
Seb Member	Wed Jul 17 12:13:55 BTW, when it comes to comparing EU Vs US capitalism, you could equally say Airbus Vs Boeing. I remember 20 years ago this board used to have conversations on how Airbus was inferior European knock off that would never catch on. So yeah, nothing will change overnight, but the tectonic plates are moving and what you will see is progressive measures to carve out market space from US incumbents to grow sovereign competitors, and it will be progressively moving up the supply chain until decoupling is achieved. Priority will be on critical acute capabilities i.e. where the US might be able to 'turn off ' bits of the economy or military capabilities via direct (because it's delivered as a service by US controlled entities) or indirect (license conditions) means - think e.g. how the US was able to stop Britain and France over Suez. But the logic goes to full decoupling she the US as a competitor not partner. The EU overall wants a nuanced engagement with China, not a full out trade war the US is pushing for, especially hard under trump. It would probably align with the US if the feeling was we were a unified block, but republican discourse on Europe and Ukraine has convinced everyone that's too big a risk to take. The UK meanwhile will try to ride both horses as long as it can (mistake in my view, geography ties us to Europe through trade and economy in a way that we just can't with the US, and eventually we will need to choose to be prosperous post off the EU core, a middle income satellite of the EU or a low income periphery of the US block.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Jul 17 13:13:04 "if the US can't be relied upon to defend Europe." Lol. Whos going to defend europe instead? Europe? Bahahaha gtfo.
Paramount Member	Wed Jul 17 16:03:33 It doesn’t add up at all http://youtu.be/tKmrlBBT0_Q Some interesting points. I wonder what got him to do it. Did someone trick him, set him up? The guy was practically invited up on the roof where he had a free line of sight of Trump.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 17 16:49:37 apparently the shooter had photos of both Biden & Trump on his phone* (which i'm sure the Faux/cult will interpret as him loving Biden but hating Trump)... but seems far more likely he was just trying to go out w/ a bang & making a mark on history & not about political views at all (given nothing really being found about that on social media or from acquaintances, that i've heard) *per briefing to congress
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 17 16:49:47 "Thinking more Amazon/AWS - and yeah, pretty easy to do if the will is there. It will play out over a couple of decades." Easy things are done, so where are these companies? It's funny you complain about US trade barriers, . Europe loves protectionism when they do it, but whine it's undair when we respond in kind. And their will be tarriffs, Trump literally put out a warning to Europe to "Brace for tarriffs"
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 17 16:51:38 I'll give tou credit that Boeing has fallen off. They grew lazy have become a shittier company than they once we were.
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 17 16:53:09 I'm not saying US companies are oerfect Plenty of shittyness to go around. China has peaked. I actually hope the EU steps up to the plate, Im just not holding my breath.
murder Member	Wed Jul 17 20:43:21 "They grew lazy have become a shittier company than they once we were." Boeing didn't grow lazy. This is the natural consequence of US style capitalism where short term profits trump everything. The constant pressure to beat the last quarter and the last year eventually leads to cost cutting and cutting corners.
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 17 23:28:10 Boeing, like Airbus is uniquely tied to government expenditure much more so than other sectors.
Seb Member	Thu Jul 18 07:48:16 Habebe: "Easy things are done, so where are these companies?" Bought up by the American firms when they are still scaling because the US firms are able to scale faster and have much better access to the EU markets than the EU firms have to the US market, and the US has no effective anti-trust/competition regime. Hence the first step for onshoring is to progressively close off access to the EU markets to US firms in particular segments to create the customer base for re-onshoring these industries. "It's funny you complain about US trade barriers, ." Why is it funny? "Europe loves protectionism when they do it," Such as? I mean the whole point here is there's no real protection regime for tech at the moment. "but whine it's undair when we respond in kind." You aren't responding in kind, you have some of the strongest non-tarrif barriers in key industries and no effective anti-trust regime. "And their will be tarriffs, Trump literally put out a warning to Europe to "Brace for tarriff" Indeed, and all that does is just confirm to Europe that a trade war is priced in so the marginal cost of using a mix of regulatory and tarrif barriers to create the space for domestic industry is low. In for a penny, in for a pound. Not only is it strategically necessary, the costs are baked in whether they do it or not. Long term, all that means it's reduced market share and earnings for US firms in Europe and globally as nascent European industries compete in third party markers. It's a spectacular own goal, but again, this kind of irrational zero sum thinking it's precisely what makes it necessary. And the "fortress Europe" types have been having this argument for years can't believe their luck that the US just killed the neo-liberal factions in the EC's best arguments for maintaining unilateral open markets. Unbelievable self-pwnage for the US here, I'm confident the history books will look back at the post Obama era and wonder what was in the water that the US just decided to retire from hegemony and the wealth it brought.
Seb Member	Thu Jul 18 07:50:14 Habebe: "They grew lazy have become a shittier company than they once we were." No, they got taken over by HBS types they (like trump) are purely focused on one off transactions and prices, not sustainable businesses and value creation. Boeing isn't a one-off. Boeing is a case study in the decline of American strategic thinking in business and politics.
Jesse Malcolm barack Member	Thu Jul 18 21:39:00 http://www...rs-to-show-support-in-pictures Some people plastered over ears at Republic national convention, in solidarity with Trump
obaminated Member	Thu Jul 18 22:05:09 If trump loses there will be a civil war because it'll be obvious the left cheated with their mail in ballots (again).
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Jul 19 00:07:23 you'd make a good ad for Dems
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Jul 19 00:15:41 ...also to Rugian or anyone not understanding how Trump is a threat to democracy, see obaminated's post
Habebe Member	Fri Jul 19 01:20:57 Seb, what non tarriff barriers are you specifically talking about? Because, and now you can argue many things are not meant for protectionism reasons, but that the end result is the same, Europe kneecaps US industry in their market routinely. US Food and guns are basically banned for example. But I am curious on which you mean are reversed. As for the tarriff war, honestly, I don't remember the details off the top of my head, Id have to go refresh my memory. We actually agree on the US needing to have an anti trust regime again.
Seb Member	Fri Jul 19 10:03:50 E.g. you safety standards for cars which are deliberately different to everyone else's to protect your domestic industry. "US Food" only insofar as you have very lax safety standards generally and companies in the US that produce food for us consumption fail to meet the standards the EU requires of its *own* producers. Those US firms that *do* have no problem.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Jul 19 12:08:49 "you safety standards for cars which are deliberately different to everyone else's to protect your domestic industry." Oh well then there must be 0 foreign cars in the US? Lol seb you retard.
Seb Member	Sat Jul 20 04:32:14 Sam: Great understanding of economics and commerce there Sam. Of course making needles market specific changes would in all and any cases completely prevent foreign cars from entering the market, and not simply increase the cost base for foreign cars resulting in reduced market share. Everyone give Sam a big round of applause. He's doing VERY well.
Habebe Member	Sat Jul 20 17:05:22 Ok Seb, but you realize you find our car standards impede EU companies from selling here. But you find excuses as to why US food and firearms cant be easily sold in the EU. Again, I completely understand that is not the primary intent of such regulations. But that doesn't change the outcome. There are still more EU cars in the US than the reverse as well. You don't see many Ford and Chevy cars in Germany. Me peraonally? I don't like US cars, or German, I think they are mostly shit, with the exception of US trucks, because non US.companies dont really make trucks suitable for the US. I prefer Swedish and Japanese cars, they are just better. It's a shame Sweden isn't making g reat cars anymore I'll be a volvo and Saab guy till the day I die. I guess I'll have to grt a Tesla eventually.
Seb Member	Sat Jul 20 17:43:23 Habebe: You realise "EU" cars are modified designs to meet the odd US standards (while pretty much the rest of the world has converged on common ones). If the US didn't have those barriers, many more US car manufacturers would have gone bust by now and been bought out by Japanese and European (still manufactured locally though). That's the reason you don't see Chevy's Europe. Fords are pretty common though.
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