Utopia Talk / Politics / Election Results

tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Nov 04 23:22:46 Dixville Notch -------------- 6 voters in town (4 Rs, 2 I's) Harris: 3 Trump: 3 so: minimally 25% of R's are going for Harris presumably 100% of I's are going for Harris landslide
jergul large member	Tue Nov 05 01:20:10 The data is clear. Only massive fraud can steal the election from Harris now. I hope she fights the fraud in all ways if Trump tries to steal the election helped by the shallow state.
Habebe Member	Tue Nov 05 03:07:14 Jergul is correct, or would be....however, die to the flagrant abuse and election interference of NBC, 25% of the harris votes are deemed null and void. Meaning Trump is in a commanding lead 3 votes, to 2.25 votes. Me, I'm still voting Anakin Skywalker as a right in, and if the country gets too bad , I'll move to Uganda.
Habebe Member	Tue Nov 05 03:07:14 Jergul is correct, or would be....however, die to the flagrant abuse and election interference of NBC, 25% of the harris votes are deemed null and void. Meaning Trump is in a commanding lead 3 votes, to 2.25 votes. Me, I'm still voting Anakin Skywalker as a right in, and if the country gets too bad , I'll move to Uganda.
murder Member	Tue Nov 05 05:31:31 I'm going to post this again here. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/early-vote Part of the reason that the US is fucked up is because younger people don't vote. 2/3 of the mail-in and early voting ballots cast were people 50 years old and older. Or in other words, 2/3 of voters are people in the last 1/3 of their lives.
Rugian Member	Tue Nov 05 11:27:29 What tumbleweed failed to mention in his OP (since he's a dishonest liar) is that Trump has increased his voting share in Dixwell Notch to the highest it's been out of any of his three election campaigns. Based on this I'm predicting that Trump wins 49 out of 50 states, plus DC...and if he doesn't, it's clear evidence of voter fraud.
obaminated Member	Tue Nov 05 12:49:37 We need to hold the line boys.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Nov 05 17:33:53 exit polls show Biden approval underwater & country on 'wrong track' though they also show Trump is hated more than Kamala & don't cover the 75 million early voters so basically not very helpful info...
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Nov 05 17:44:29 DUKAKIS WINS IT! OH. MY. GOD. DUKAKIS WINS IT!!! EVERY. SINGLE. ELECTOR! DUKAKIS WINS IT!!!! \:D/
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Nov 05 17:46:37 According to this chart from October, there are a lot of faggots: http://x.com/leonardaisfunE/status/1853910178120273983
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Nov 05 18:57:33 "Fox News can project that North Carolina's Democratic Attorney General Josh Stein will defeat Republican LT. Governor Mark Robinson" Robinson being the guy Trump called MLK on steroids... (but being a self-described 'black nazi' & porn addict may have caused problems)
obaminated Member	Tue Nov 05 20:18:24 http://www...?ico=article_preview_xp_mobile Do you smell that Ike? Smells like somebody died.
Forwyn Member	Tue Nov 05 21:06:26 NYT now projects a 73% chance of a Trump victory, with an estimate of 288.
Dukhat Member	Tue Nov 05 21:15:41 If Biden hadn't gotten old, Democrats probably would've held the blue wall IMO. Kamala helped in the sunbelt a little bit but not enough to win anything and white union dudes found it difficult to vote for her.
Dukhat Member	Tue Nov 05 21:16:18 Trump gets to take credit for another great economy a democrat saved from Republicans crashing it into the ground.
obaminated Member	Tue Nov 05 21:18:50 Trump is gonna have a pretty resounding victory. It'll be a hard day for liberals tomorrow. They will have to understand just how out of touch they became post covid. Honestly that was the turning point. When being a tranny was considered normal and not a serious mental health issue.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 05 21:28:02 Trump 2 to 1 fav at this point? 3 to 1?
obaminated Member	Tue Nov 05 21:44:40 http://www...?ico=article_preview_xp_mobile Female Rican voting trump despite that whole garbage shit? Yeah, sorry kamala, you got fucked harder than the time you had a threesome with Montel.
obaminated Member	Tue Nov 05 22:07:08 Where is tw?
murder Member	Tue Nov 05 22:07:52 Where's tumbleweed at?
superdude Member	Tue Nov 05 22:07:59 He killed himself.
murder Member	Tue Nov 05 22:08:29 no, he's not getting off that easy.
superdude Member	Tue Nov 05 22:17:02 Republicans will flip Ohio, Wisc and Minn Senate seats.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 05 22:25:51 Trump 5:1 Gop sweep probable
Earthpig GTFO HOer	Tue Nov 05 22:40:28 Robinhood 9:1 Trump, bitcoin about to hit $75k, more conservative mortgage giant $RKT rocketing up in after hours trading while #BLM messaging mortgage giant $UWMC flounders. Trump wins, election over.
obaminated Member	Tue Nov 05 22:43:22 http://youtu.be/3ZgAPY2nz7U?si=o1zQJ-yD_dKLJ994
obaminated Member	Tue Nov 05 22:43:55 Provably shouldn't have had Haitians eating dogs and cats.
Earthpig GTFO HOer	Tue Nov 05 22:52:49 North Carolina went Trump *and* for AG it elected democrat tiktok personality Jeff Jackson. Buuut NC also went dem for the other statewide offices, while Trump for potus. That's a clear condemnation of Harris as a candidate. Dems gotta chill and pick a vanilla candidate in 2028.
Earthpig GTFO HOer	Tue Nov 05 23:01:38 Open secrets says Harris raised $1.6b, Trump $1.1b. Dems gotta pander more to middle country voters, less to coastal donors, I think. The "$ controls elections" narrative, for now, is dead.
Habebe Member	Tue Nov 05 23:01:44 Allentown ,88% vote in, and Trump is up like 3% Is PAtom still around?
Habebe Member	Tue Nov 05 23:01:45 Allentown ,88% vote in, and Trump is up like 3% Is PAtom still around?
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 05 23:14:24 "Dems gotta chill and pick a vanilla candidate in 2028." Dems didnt pick kamala. They kindof got shafted into it when dementia biden melted down.
Pillz Member	Tue Nov 05 23:15:50 Sure they did
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 05 23:20:14 They did a little but not entirely. Like she was about their 8th choice in the original primary.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 05 23:28:24 Ukraine and iran might be fucked
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 05 23:31:04 Seb and wtb guess you are going have to man up and fund your own defense for once. Although jergul thinks you should all just surrender to russia.
jergul large member	Tue Nov 05 23:32:19 "Dems didnt pick kamala. They kindof got shafted into it when dementia biden melted down." Biden's poison pill. He chose an seemingly unelectable running mate in 2020 because age made him vulnerable to a VP challenge in 2024, so that needed to be smoothered from the go. And what is less electable that a woman of colour frankly?
Average Ameriacn Member	Tue Nov 05 23:33:42 MAGA!
Dukhat Member	Tue Nov 05 23:36:46 Democrats need to co-opt Trump's messaging more. Noone is for open borders. Nothing they could do about inflation though. That was the nail in the coffin. If Inflation had only been high a year and Biden had a 45% approval rating, she probably would've won due to all of Trump's issues. The GOP would've won like 5 more senate seats and 400 electoral votes if they had nominated Nikki Haley but they'll still win a couple of seats and win the presidency anyways. And they'll gladly take it.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 05 23:37:22 You know whats going to be funny... if biden dies/retires in a month and kamala is president for a month before being forced to turn it over to trump.
Dukhat Member	Tue Nov 05 23:37:51 But yeah, Kamala gender was a bigger issue than her race. Dems already win women. She didn't juice up there turnout anymore than the Dobbs decision would've. They needed to hold down their losses with black and hispanic men and Kamala didn't do shit for that.
jergul large member	Tue Nov 05 23:39:03 Sammy I definately think Europe collectively should fund our own independent defence with a CoC disconnected from Nato. And sure, we can put all kinds of stuff in order books for delivery in 2030-34. The problem for Ukraine is not funding, it is the actual hardware. Thinking that Ukraine is inevitably going to lose does not mean we can stop asking producers to build stuff when they eventually have the time and capacity. How long Ukraine wants to fight is up to that country collectively. When it wants to stop, it will collectively stop. So, wrong. I just called the inevitable outcome way before you saw it. Dont be bitter, little man :).
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 05 23:57:46 Hispanic men favoring trump is hilarious. Dems lost the hispanic vote. Amazing fumble.
Habebe Member	Tue Nov 05 23:59:18 When Trump wins the popular vote.... They will have nothing. It has nothing to do with her sex. Point blank, ahe just isn't likeable. JD vance is wierd? How did that work out. Tampon timmy however, walz is cold wierdo. Honestly, a Shapiro or Tom wolf would have been good picks.
Habebe Member	Wed Nov 06 00:00:44 Sam, Arabs and Muslims are voting Trump. The Amish are voting for a man who owns multiple gold elevators....let that sink in.
Habebe Member	Wed Nov 06 00:00:44 Sam, Arabs and Muslims are voting Trump. The Amish are voting for a man who owns multiple gold elevators....let that sink in.
Habebe Member	Wed Nov 06 00:00:44 Sam, Arabs and Muslims are voting Trump. The Amish are voting for a man who owns multiple gold elevators....let that sink in.
Habebe Member	Wed Nov 06 00:00:44 Sam, Arabs and Muslims are voting Trump. The Amish are voting for a man who owns multiple gold elevators....let that sink in.
Pillz Member	Wed Nov 06 00:02:57 Georgia for Trump. Nevada final reporting in. Leaning Trump, no results from Vegas yet. It's all over
jergul large member	Wed Nov 06 00:04:56 hababe You do not know much about your country if you think gender was not a factor, though to your credit, you do name the dog whistle "not likable". Biden's poison pill worked as intended, though she was never intended to run. Blame/credit Biden's staff and planners back in 2020 for Trump's victory today in a narrow sense.
Habebe Member	Wed Nov 06 00:04:56 The electoral map looks like a blood bath.
jergul large member	Wed Nov 06 00:05:49 Get a better cellphone. This is rediculous (delets multiple duplicate posts).
Average Ameriacn Member	Wed Nov 06 00:07:08 Should we meet at the border today and start the defense as a group?
Seb Member	Wed Nov 06 00:29:59 Sam. It's like you haven't been paying attention to anything I've said. Writing the US off as a defense partner a while back. We're all Gaulists now, the only question is when Europe kicks out the US bases, turns off your early warning radars.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Nov 06 00:40:21 You won't defend yourself seb. Why should we pay to defend you? "turns off your early warning radars." Its ok we have like 90% of the worlds rocket capacity by mass and climbing. We'll just put them in space. But you wont. You will be desperate to cling to the last shred of big brothers protection.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Nov 06 00:41:27 Stock market jumps. Partly on avoiding kamala partly on the win being clear enough to avoid any doubt.
Habebe Member	Wed Nov 06 00:49:18 This is an unrestrained Trump, and he has the Senate, likley the house , and likley the pop vote, which just boosts the mandate. He self funded organizing a team to go in with already. We need that Iralian Mecha Trump to roll down Pennsylvania ave in a Parade.
jergul large member	Wed Nov 06 01:16:04 Seb Sadly, I do not think we will internalize what the outcome actually means. Trump as a symbol of extravert isolationalism. I think we will hope this blows over and not actually do the Gaulist thing.
Pillz Member	Wed Nov 06 01:24:31 Kamala refuses to concede. Claims there is a path to victory!
Pillz Member	Wed Nov 06 01:25:08 Refuses is not the right word, she refuses to speak. Her campaign says there's a path to victory and sent everyone home.
Paramount Member	Wed Nov 06 01:29:24 She shouldn’t have been aiding and abetting genocide. The Democrat’s deserve to lose everything. And the Americans deserve Mr Trump.
Pillz Member	Wed Nov 06 01:31:50 PA called for trump
Rugian Member	Wed Nov 06 04:44:05 CNN called Wisconsin for Trump. It's over.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 06 05:18:30 [SA]: "But you wont. You will be desperate to cling to the last shred of big brothers protection." But Seb's free stuff? :'( :( :'( But NHS funding for migrant invasions? :'( :( :'( But BlackRock infrastructure projects in Ukraine and Africa? :'( :( :'( It's hilarious to see UP's leftists pretending that this is just about outreach and campaign spending with "middle country voters" or that inflation was just a force of nature that was out of their hands (lol). Sorry not sorry, but yellow journalism has a cost. You cannot just lie to people's faces and expect them to fall in line if you simply spend a few more million lying to them. A low-information leftist can just emerge every few months, turn on CNN, and pretend that the propaganda is still working, but that is the same "seen" vs. "unseen" error that Hillary made in 2016. I.e., many people are no longer even watching CNN. They don't believe ABC's lies or debate interference. You can't look as Psaki or KJP with their maliciously evil or dumbfounded lying and think that people trust them when they say that Biden is competent or that Harris isn't a fucking wine-aunt mess. All the handlers in the world can't wipe lipstick off of those teeth. The simple reality is that leftists pushed the slave revolt too hard too fast. Their only strategy going forward is to import even more foreigners as per their Great Replacement strategy and hope that they can drown out all the people they lied to by using mercenary hordes who don't care about the lies so long as they get their bribes. That is the Democrat strategy, that is what they do, and so that's all that leftists are allowed to believe in. If Democrats do not have a strategy for fraud going forward in the next month, then they'll simply focus on pushing more a55a55ination rhetoric, investing more in propaganda about how difficult and meany-head-poo-poo it would be to kick out foreign invaders, sabotage re-migration policies via their control of the bureaucracies, and drop some false flags to manufacture consent for foreign intervention. If you think they'll just do some soul-searching and wonder if replacing a population to get the votes that they want for their globalist projects is a bad thing, actually, then you already forgot 2016.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 05:26:52 Where's tumbleweed at?
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 05:30:03 I suppose it's unfair to put this all on him since he had no power to influence anything and is just a random dumbass on the internet the same as I am ... but being the only dumbass I know that actually thought it was a good idea to toss Biden overboard, he's going to hear about it now.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 06 05:35:54 Yeah, be sure to tell him that tossing Biden was a bad idea because "[muh racists]" in your bad circular logic rather than.. you know.. Harris being a pile of shit and Democrat policies being fucked no matter what puppet they paraded.
Rugian Member	Wed Nov 06 05:38:58 If the Democrats had held an open primary and selected a moderate and reasonably intelligent and charismatic candidate, replacing Biden would have made sense. Instead, the party forced Kamala Harris down everyones' throats. A political lightweight who had never won a single primary vote in her lifetime, was largely perceived as an ineffective politician and vice president, amd whose California-style politics translated poorly to the rest of the country. A person who only held her position because Biden explicitly wanted a black woman, as well as an insurance policy because it was absolutely laughable that the party would ever support a bid from her to replace him. The party crowned *that* person and then accused everyone who wasn't comfortable with her of being a fascist. And you wonder how you lost.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 05:41:27 I want all the dumbass Democrats that were sure that Biden was a drag on the ticket and in House and Senate races all over the map to come out and explain their brilliant strategy to me like I'm a 5 year old. I want them to take full credit for their strategy, and to point to me on a map where this strategy paid off. I want them to tell me again how voters were sick of the two old candidates and wanted a younger candidate. I want them to explain to me again how they thought Kamala Harris was going to win over undecided voters that were still considering voting for Donald Trump in the year of our Lord 2024. I want all these people to take a bow. I want to hear from Nancy Pelosi and George Clooney. But first I want to hear from tumbleweed.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 06 05:48:59 [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "I want all the dumbass Democrats that were sure that Biden was a drag on the ticket and in House and Senate races all over the map to come out and explain their brilliant strategy to me like I'm a 5 year old." Are they allowed to tell you that Biden very obviously had dementia/Parkinson's and that they couldn't hide it anymore? Are they allowed to tell you that Biden even being alive right now is merely science's mockery of the natural order? Or do you just want tumbletard to agree with your "[muh racism]" claim and ignore all other data?
Rugian Member	Wed Nov 06 05:56:43 Biden right now: http://www...ads/2024/11/biden_maga_hat.jpg Somehow, he can credibly maintain his claim that he's the only Democrat capable of beating Donald Trump. Good for you sir.
Habebe Member	Wed Nov 06 06:09:30 Murder, We agree, Harris os a terrible candidate. So was Tampon timmy, Shapiro or wolf would have been better choices. Vance, was actually a better choice than I thought at first. But, its more than that, pushing the wierd tranny shit on ppl is unpopular. And the democrats are inneffective. Rember that rural internet initiative? 3 years later, not one person has internet, 39 billion spent. Overly throwing up red tape is more harmful than good.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 06:12:45 If you're a rando that spends all her time on the internet trying to impress people and let everyone know that she went to college with every stupid rambling post you make, that doesn't actually impress anybody, I don't have time for you right now. I'll get back to you when I'm done with my meltdown.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 06:17:17 "Murder, We agree, Harris os a terrible candidate." There could be no other candidate. As I explained at the time, tossing Biden overboard was walking into a box canyon. Attempting to bypass Kamala would have set off a civil war inside the party. The black caucus and black voters would have revolted. If she had been bypassed for a man, women would have revolted. Once the move the replace Biden was initiated, there was no possible choice but Kamala.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 06 06:28:02 [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "I'll get back to you when I'm done with my meltdown." lol This was funny too though: [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "If you're a rando that spends all her time on the internet trying to impress people and let everyone know that she went to college with every stupid rambling post you make, that doesn't actually impress anybody, I don't have time for you right now." This does not describe me at all, but murder thinks it does. And I'm not "admitting" to its accuracy by picking up on his innuendo; he made a similar comment here and was very direct about it: http://uto...hread=93393&time=1729479531164 He seems to think that I brag about college? Nope. I don't. That's williamthecoward. It is the left that insists on using credentialism to win arguments. sebfag does it often. earthfaggot does it too when he wants to just say, "Marine," and get people to roll over. I use arguments. If my ability to organize thoughts is itself considered by murder to be some "ermagerdz, college" argument, then murder is just admitting that he's a retard (again). But proceed with the meltdown. Keep waiting for tumblefag to listen to you blame "[muh racists]" :)
Rugian Member	Wed Nov 06 06:30:38 And no one wanted Harris. Clearly. And no one wanted Biden either. You're talking about keeping a clearly demented person at the head of the ticket because you lack the imagination to figure out how a decent candidate could have replaced him. There are more important things than party unity. Trump definitely didn't have unity in his 2016 run, yet he won anyway because party activists and kingmakers are not the same thing as the general electorate. It was possible. But the Dems opted for the easy path instead.
Rugian Member	Wed Nov 06 06:30:38 And no one wanted Harris. Clearly. And no one wanted Biden either. You're talking about keeping a clearly demented person at the head of the ticket because you lack the imagination to figure out how a decent candidate could have replaced him. There are more important things than party unity. Trump definitely didn't have unity in his 2016 run, yet he won anyway because party activists and kingmakers are not the same thing as the general electorate. It was possible. But the Dems opted for the easy path instead.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 06:37:48 My favorite part of all this will be people telling me that I was wrong ... despite it playing out exactly like I said it would. All the swing voters that Biden pulled away from Trump in 2020 went right back to Trump in 2024 ... because of course they did.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 06:38:50 "This does not describe me at all ..." And yet somehow your foot ended up in the glass slipper.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 06:40:47 "You're talking about keeping a clearly demented person at the head of the ticket because you lack the imagination to figure out how a decent candidate could have replaced him." Clearly being old and clearly demented didn't deter voters. Just like I predicted it wouldn't.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 06 06:46:51 [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "And yet somehow your foot ended up in the glass slipper." As I pointed out — since I knew you would be a little bitch coward by pretending that you just laid bait and that it was totally a proof-of-concept that I realized that you were talking about me — you had already given up the game on those descriptions in another thread where you directly name me and make the exact same argument. You cannot pretend that you merely dropped a glass slipper for me. You're a pathetic liar and transparently desperate. :) [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "My favorite part of all this will be people telling me that I was wrong ... despite it playing out exactly like I said it would." What you're experiencing is gambler's fallacy. Many fucking idiots like yourself had a bunch of fucking stupid ideas about how Trump might win. Since Trump appears to have won, you're now telling yourself that your reasons for how he might win were correct. This is a fallacy because you were talking about an election with only two outcomes and your reasons are completely disconnected from the realities of what affected the outcome. Here in reality, your "[muh racism]" argument is transparently garbage. The plain truth is that Harris is a piece of shit leftist who couldn't get enthusiasm even if she gave out a million free hand jobs.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 06:55:05 "As I pointed out — since I knew you would be a little bitch coward by pretending that you just laid bait ..." Bait? That was a mirror. I guess I didn't have to explain how, huh? You knew what I meant because you recognized yourself, like I knew you would. Did you bookmark the thread so you could find it later? Or ...
Rugian Member	Wed Nov 06 06:59:23 "Clearly being old and clearly demented didn't deter voters." I think you and I remember July very differently. Biden was down in the polls and down-ballot candidates were avoiding him like the plague. Granted, his senility was only part of the problem, policy questions like his handling of the economy and border were also weighing him down. But again, Harris wasn't an improvement on those issues and voters knew it. If the party had been honest with Biden's defincies from the beginning, they would never have let him run uncontested during the primary season. The failure here is really one of groupthink and existing in a cable news/social media bubble that had them convinced that Biden was doing awesome and that Trump was unelectable post-January 6. I would like to see the Democrats learn a lesson here, tell the radical leftists to fuck off and pivot back to being a party of relative moderates. I don't want to find it impossible to vote for Democrats every election, that's unhealthy for our two-party system. Based on their post-2016 moves though, I think they're just going to double down again on the stupidity. And that's a shame.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 06 07:03:40 [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "I guess I didn't have to explain how, huh? You knew what I meant because you recognized yourself, like I knew you would." lol. • murder: thinks he's cleverly disguised who he's talking about by not specifically naming who he's talking about but just leaving a disembodied description • CC: points out that murder used those exact words to describe CC — by name —, links to the exact words, points out that murder will pretend that CC couldn't have known and that recognizing the description is itself an admission, points out that murder is so retarded that he will do exactly this • murder: does exactly that, pretending that CC couldn't have known and fell into a masterly trap lol, you really are a fucking retard, aren't you? :D No wonder you're a leftist, no wonder you're having a meltdown, and no wonder you think people didn't vote for Harris because "[muh racism]" XD
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 07:08:25 "murder: thinks he's cleverly disguised who he's talking about by not specifically naming who he's talking about but just leaving a disembodied description" ... "I have to admit that I was waiting for CC to post in this thread. The tension has got to be killing her." I very specifically did mention you.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 07:09:36 And you knew why I said it without need for explanation.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 07:09:55 Because the glass slipper fit.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 07:10:21 You can't hide all day, tumbleweed!
Seb Member	Wed Nov 06 07:12:16 Sam: "Why should we pay to defend you?" Cause we paid a fortune to defend you. "We'll just put them in space." Might work. Costs more than just shipping the stuff you were going to blow up anyway to Ukraine. But up to you. " You will be desperate to cling to the last shred of big brothers protection." Not thinking the right way around. You are taking this as an "or we will..". Nobody trusts the US anymore. So we will pay for our own defense. And the "find out" stage will come later.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 06 07:53:47 [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "I very specifically did mention you." That's what I fucking said. You. Fucking. Retard. And the *fact* that you mentioned me in that thread means that your pretense of laying a trap here without mention is an obvious lie on your part, you fucking retard. Fucking krikies the absolute illiteracy among leftists. Even when I explain and re-explain and minimize to bullet points.. murder is still too fucking stupid to understand the simplest fucking argument. Absolute dysgenics.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 08:08:06 There was no trap except in your head. Just a mirror. And you recognized yourself without any explanation from me or anyone else.
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 08:09:22 "Nobody trusts the US anymore." Nor should you. Cut the US loose. This Confederate nation is a lost cause.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 06 08:10:43 [murder (left-wing dogma bot)]: "There was no trap except in your head. Just a mirror. And you recognized yourself without any explanation from me or anyone else." XD you're literally too retarded to breath XD You deserve this day so much :D ---------- "Has anyone offered as a reason for Trump's win that he is the most persuasive politician of our lifetime and he was running against a moron? We might be overthinking it." http://x.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1854145373583052991
murder Member	Wed Nov 06 08:36:06 I don't have time for you. I looking for that little tumbleweed weasel who was here but has now disappeared. Besides, I don't need to talk to you. You're a women and therefore worth less than a slave.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 06 08:52:57 Murder: It's happening already, but I think this will have killed off the Atlantacists who were convinced Trump was an aberration. But it's a journey not a great casting off. There's no need to get emotional about it, it starts with a fundamental re-evaluation of assumptions, an then you work from there. The US won't see much (obviously it's in our interests to talk up NATO even as we work to replace it and the US). The US won't notice much until Europe is fucking around pursuing economic, trade and foreign policy goals counter to the US interests around the world in a decade or so time, and demanding US base closures or steep fees for continued access rights.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 06 08:55:14 What I think you won't see: a sudden scramble to do "deals" with trump to preserve NATO. Yes European defence spending will rise, and they don't care if Trump calls that a win, but little of that will flow to US arms firms. The interesting partners in defence are Australia, Japan, South Korea etc.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 06 08:57:50 Trade and supply chain stuff for strategic autonomy will follow next. I would expect: *Capital controls or some variant by another means *Establishing key elements of supply chain including chip fabs *Industrial policy designed to reinforce those supply chain industry (e.g. export controls on fab technology)
Forwyn Member	Wed Nov 06 09:05:51 Currently hosting Italian, Norwegian, Danish, and Dutch F-35 pilots in Arizona. Just cut the ribbon on an Arkansas base expansion to host Polish, Finnish, Swiss, and Singaporean pilots. US arms funds aren't drying up anytime soon.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 06 09:13:28 Forwyn: F-35 is a sunk cost, but people have seen how the US service contracts and backend services have hobbled the UK/France on Stormshaddow and this was a huge issue in the F-35 program (software licensing etc.) I don't think people will want to buy their next plane from the US if they aren't sure the US can't hobble t and prevent them from using it to defend themselves because Russia threatens the US if it doesn't. UK is partnering with Japan and others for the Typhoon replacement, and will probably seek a navalised version of the autonomous variant rather than increasing orders of F-35. Meanwhile the defence *increases* for new orders will go to EU based firms.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 06 09:17:31 Obviously, Brexit is looking terrible for the UK here: it's outside the big EU progs on supply chain, and also key capabilities like Galileo and future terrain mapping stuff. But also can't rely on the US (shafted on using terrain maps for Stormshaddow in Ukraine). It will be interesting to see what can be bundled up into the UKUS defence treaty (due for renewal by December, and why Biden was leaning on the UK to resolve Chaos situation). But no, I don't think you'll see a flood of new orders, instead Europeans will want to buy Europeans unless there's full tech transfer and no ongoing dependency. Kinda like china with consumer goods.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 06 09:19:56 Also I wouldn't put it passed EU countries to do to the US what Russia did to China and just quietly reverse engineer purchased US kit.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Nov 06 10:43:12 "So we will pay for our own defense." No you won't. You are letting the ukraine get fucked because you don't want to pay for them to defend themselves. You won't even enforce your own border or keep your own streets safe. "and just quietly reverse engineer purchased US kit." Lol this is indeed what second tier economies do. I am glad you admit, finaly, that you are behind.
jergul large member	Wed Nov 06 10:57:56 Its really a binary choice. Pay for own defence or pay for Ukraine's defence. Paying for Ukraine's has two problems: 1. Hardware has to be produced. That takes time and production will trickle in to be destroyed piecemeal by Russia. 2. It is hard to imagine a scenario less suited to Nato hardware than giving it to Ukraine. We are gifting Russia a chance to destroy it easily instead of with great difficulty when facing the full weight of Nato.
jergul large member	Wed Nov 06 11:00:32 What we will do is give some stuff to Ukraine and hope it gets the picture on what direction this is going.
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