Utopia Talk / Politics / Canada's potential next leader

Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 06:08:33 "Canada should seek nuclear protection against US – ex-FM France and the UK would make great allies against a “predatory” Trump, Chrystia Freeland has said Former Canadian deputy PM and foreign minister, Chrystia Freeland, has called on Ottawa to turn to European nuclear powers for deterrence against a “predatory” United States. Freeland made the suggestion on Wednesday during debates for the leadership of the country's Liberal Party. ”What is different about this unleashed and empowered President Trump is he is clearly threatening our sovereignty and we need to respond,” she said. “The US is turning predator, and so what Canada needs to do is work closely with our democratic allies, our military allies.” ”I would start with our Nordic partners, specifically Denmark which is also being threatened, and our European NATO allies,” she told the debate, referring to Trump’s controversial offer to purchase Greenland. ”I would be sure that France and Britain were there who possess nuclear weapons, and I would be working urgently with those partners to build a closer security relationship that guarantees our security in a time when the United States can be a threat,” Freeland explained." http://www...ada-nuclear-umbrella-freeland/
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 06:10:47 A couple of harmless 51st state memes and these asshats are talking about treating the US as a full-blown enemy. Amazing. Bitch, if the US ever did decide to invade Canada, we would win that shit in a matter of days. The fact that your country exists at all is because the US is *not* the type of country that expands at the expense of its neighbors. You would have *no* defensive capabilities against us if we were.
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 06:19:20 Population US: 340,110,988 Canada: 41,465,298 Active military personnel US: 1,328,000 Canada: 68,000 GDP (millions) US: $30,337,162 Canada: $2,330,308 Military budget (billions) US: $968.1 Canada: $27.2 Complying with NATO defense spending requirements? US: Yes, actually exceeding them by a significant amount Canada: No, and projected to remain under the minimum until at least 2032 A US-Canada war wouldn't even be a contest. It'd be an even faster affair than the invasion of Iraq.
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 06:25:00 Nuclear warheads US: 5,044 Canada: 0
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 06:28:24 Fighter/interceptor aircraft US: 1,790 Canada: 66
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 06:31:48 Warships US: 484 Canada: 61 Aircraft carriers US: 11 Canada: 0 Submarines US: 64 Canada: 4
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 06:33:05 Tanks: 4,657 Canada: 74
MojoCujo Member	Sun Mar 02 06:54:41 With your list you are arguing in favour of Canada acquiring nuclear weapons.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 07:04:42 I'm up for that - a nuclear umbrella over Canada that is.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 07:07:15 Rugian: I think you are a bit fucking stupid to be honest. You want to meme and denigrate others to feel powerful. But at the same time you don't want them to be taken seriously. We think your leaders are serious, even if you don't. So you would act accordingly. Either none of this matters, or your laughing a long in a mob that may see you die in an atomic fireball. Pick a side and stick with it. Nobodies interested in your ridiculous clown routine.
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 07:11:07 Seb You are totally unhinged from reality. Trump has never once threatened to invade Canada, yet on multiple occasions you have accused him of doing exactly that. I don't begrudge Canada for taking offense at Trump's tweets or booing our anthem in response. But to act like the US is an *actual* threat to Canadian sovereignty is just ridiculous. Your side makes up this shit about Trump and runs with it - that doesn't mean it's true.
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 07:14:24 Anyone with half a brain would recognize that Trump is half joking, and half probing to see what Canada's interest would be in entering some sort of union. To equate that to him threatening to glass Ontario if they don't bend the knee is beyond the pale. You should know better.
patom Member	Sun Mar 02 07:16:09 Currently many retailers in Canada are removing any products made in the USA from their shelves. As much as some of my Canadian relatives bitch and moan about their Health Care system, not a one of them is willing to give it up and pay the prices we pay for health care. Does your boy Trump still have a concept of a health care plan?
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 07:16:53 Patom He'll be rolling it out in a few weeks.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Mar 02 07:21:22 Rugian Clearly Trump has failed both in reading the room and delivering his jokes, if he has set up nuclear proliferation?
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 02 07:26:18 nimatzo This has sort of been the dynamic between Trump and his opponents for a decade now though. Trump says or does something offensive. Leftists blow it wildly out of proportion and treat Trump as an existential threat to human civilization. Both sides end up looking bad as a result - but because leftists exist in their own media echo chamber, they don't realize that they also look silly.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 07:30:58 Rugian: No. You are. There's a war in Europe and the US is trying to impose capitulation in a way that would divide Ukraine along the lines of the Molotov- Ribbentrop pact and leave Russia poised to attack Europe. The US VP came to Europe and told the assembled leaders he considered core EU values a threat to the US. Our intelligence services see deliberate interference in our elections from political agents working for you ruling party of the same type, sophistication and scale as Russia's intelligence services, using platforms run by a guy whose running the US domestic agenda in all but name. The political outriders around the maga movement believe very much in a world of spheres of influence. Putin's aggression in Ukraine and other countries, plus the naked attempts to influence UK, German and French elections, and exacerbate tensions during events like the riots in the UK with fake AI footage show exactly how this would go down. Find a group of "patriots", little green men, false narratives and an intervention "to stabilise" the situation after "invitation" from "oppressed groups". Yes, we take this all seriously. We take it very seriously. The fact that you do not (or at least purport not to, I can't work out if you are dumb or just mendacious) take this seriously is your own stupidity. You've memed and brain rotted yourself into making an enemy of the rest of the free world. the US is gathering forces to launch an attack on Mexico
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 07:36:04 Oh yes, forgot that part, the US is also gathering forces on the southern border to attack Mexico. Sure it's the drug dealers. It's still an attack across the border, and the point is to establish the precedent and acceptance in the US citizens minds that such attacks are acceptable. So that when you go in to "stabilise" the oppression of "freedom loving unionists" from "Canadian oppression" you'll have been used to such operations. Ditto with Greenland. And of course the threat helps push people into acquiescence peacefully. We all see what's going on. You do not. Because you are a weak man, revelling in role playing your weak idea of what strength looks like, while not actually believing it. And that's just sad. So, my advice, pick a side. Say these things and support them being said if you mean it. If you don't, oppose it. Because other countries don't think this is unserious and it's already done huge damage to the US, yet to be felt at home, but it will be.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 07:43:37 You should look, rugian, at what Thiel and all have written, and what those he has funded, have written about the ideal form of govt. Trump is a great salesman for this, but this isn't really about Trump. It's about the where the folks behind him are going, whether most of them know it or not. And the fact you can't disentangle your stupid and vapid domestic politics with global politics is a problem for you.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 07:49:33 "Hahaha we are going to speak and act by exactly like a threat to you hahaha it's such a joke" Really? What's funny about it? Who is laughing? States don't play "pranks" on each other, that's not a thing. It's serious, it had consequences, and if you elect people who don't take it seriously. Best case scenario, turns out the US is full of shit and says stuff it doesn't mean. That's bad for the US, less likely to be taken seriously in future; but in the mean time American business and financial interests will be damaged as everyone hedges against that. Worst case, there's a fucking world war because China and Russia misread it for a genuine US retreat from commitment to global security.
murder Member	Sun Mar 02 11:31:41 "I'm up for that - a nuclear umbrella over Canada that is." Canada needs to develop it's own nukes. No one is going to believe that the UK and France are going to get London and Paris nuked to save Ottawa.
murder Member	Sun Mar 02 11:41:19 "Anyone with half a brain would recognize that Trump is half joking ..." Anyone with half a brain would take the threat seriously and prepare to defend themselves with deadly force. This like claiming you're half joking about raping a woman and then acting upset when she threatens to stab you in the neck.
murder Member	Sun Mar 02 12:20:49 "The fact that you do not (or at least purport not to, I can't work out if you are dumb or just mendacious) take this seriously is your own stupidity." Rugian hasn't reached the "Are we the baddies?" stage yet. It still hasn't dawned on him that his side has webbed feet, are covered in feathers, and are quacking up a storm.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 12:45:58 Murder: How little you know us. But in practice the way it would work if the way it will for Germany and the Baltics. ALCMs deployed in Canada to be carried by Canadian aircraft.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Mar 02 13:10:11 Lol trump derangement syndrome is a real thing. Trump is a retard, but this canadian and seb are worse. Lol nuclear war in the west because trump? Very sane people we are working with here. So enlightened and modern.
TheChildren Member	Sun Mar 02 13:28:20 they need 2 cut ties with u asap
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 13:45:19 Sam: The idea is there won't be a nuclear war (we know that from how Russia deterred the US). The point is to prevent an American invasion of Greenland or Canada. The US has launched many invasions in its hemisphere, and you have the means, motive and opportunity. To date nobody thought you had the criminal inclination to do so entirely unprovoked. But we've just all seen you try an extort Ukraine weigh the kind of psychological bullying reminiscent of when Hitler bullied the Czech president into signing over his country. So yeah, nobody is up for taking risks anymore.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 13:47:13 The only trump derangement syndrome are the folks that look at Trump and what he and his folks are doing and see it as in like with knock-a-bout democratic politics; rather than full on Orbanisation.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Mar 02 14:13:20 "A couple of harmless 51st state memes and these asshats are talking about treating the US as a full-blown enemy. Amazing" he has stated using tariffs to break them & make them surrender (please give a legit reason he's pushing for the tariffs... the fentanyl claim is beyond idiotic & backed by nothing)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Mar 02 14:19:33 also fuckhead recently 'gave permission' for Wayne Gretzky to have a problem w/ his taking Canada plans there'd be a 'whoa whoa whoa, i was just joking' if he was kidding the fucked up shit he says that your side decides must be jokes to comprehend it are not jokes... he's just fucked up
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 14:50:49 Tumbleweed: Yeah that's how it goes: try and cause the Canadian economy to tank, normalise US "just over the border" interventions and occupations in Mexico, then have something like the Trucker thing where a load of Maga outriders go stage provocations in Canada pretending to be Canadians "rebelling" against the Canadian govts "failed state" and provoke a police response, all while friendly media and outright psyops on social media platform rolls out the FUD, that then gets used to justify "stabilisation" intervention.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Mar 02 14:56:43 "The point is to prevent an American invasion of Greenland or Canada." Lol TDS is going to do way more damage than trump himself. Your completely batshit.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 15:02:09 Sam: Maybe don't elect lunatics for Lols and conduct international diplomacy as trolls. Absolutely Canada should come under a European nuclear umbrella. Who could dispute that? And if you think it's crazy that the US would ever cause it to be launched, sleep easy knowing that peace will reign as a few megatons of instant sunshine are out there, with you cities locked in, allowing you to indulge in the spectator sport you've created to replace governance knowing nobody would be by stupid enough to take the risk.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Mar 02 15:27:30 i doubt the focus of her comments was about nuclear weapons (Rugian going w/ a Russian news outlet for that headline... i don't even see a Canadian article mentioning her comments so probably was nothing weird on the whole) i would guess their main efforts will be to find new trading partners (as will other countries around the world) harming us for decades however, fuckhead decided on a whim that "For purposes of National Security and Freedom throughout the World, the United States of America feels that the ownership and control of Greenland is an absolute necessity." (& people like obaminated immediately on board) so there is reason to take precautions against anything... including everyone needing to count us out against any threats by others
murder Member	Sun Mar 02 15:43:24 "Trump is a retard, but this canadian and seb are worse. Lol nuclear war in the west because trump?" Canadians have a right to carry too.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Mar 02 15:56:11 "Maybe don't elect lunatics" Says the lunatic from the other side. Your craziness was a necessary precursor to electing trump.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 02 16:22:37 Sam, that's hilarious. No. You voted for this guy because you were mad a black man was president. It has fuck all to do with anyone outside the US.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Mar 02 23:30:28 Sebs gain power, discriminate against whites and men, jack up taxes, import a bunch of criminals, stops punishing crime. Then wonders why people might vote against him, no matter who? Lol
williamthebastard Member	Mon Mar 03 00:06:19 Half of europe is now discussing nuclear umbrellas to protect themselves against a predatory USA. The West is arming itself against the USA. Nice work, USA.
williamthebastard Member	Mon Mar 03 00:09:20 And either south korea or japan, cant remember which, is also discussing being part of a western nuclear umbrella against the USA. The USA is no longer a part of the western world and is in fact ranked as possibly the main security threat to the west.
williamthebastard Member	Mon Mar 03 00:12:13 I said months ago that if Trump wins, one of the first things to happen will that countries like Germany would go nuclear, and Germany is now discussing access to French nukes
williamthebastard Member	Mon Mar 03 00:14:40 Europe will also be ending purchases of american weapons as soon as Trump has his next outburst of aggression.
williamthebastard Member	Mon Mar 03 00:18:06 Just last week Trump fucked up an agreement to sell 10 Swedish Jas aircraft to Colombia by threatening Colombia
williamthebastard Member	Mon Mar 03 00:31:18 MAGA voters immediately caused a nuclear arms race. Every maga voter also has blood on their hands, because the only reason Putin didnt come to the table earlier for a deal is because he was banking on Maga voters electing his fawning and obedient buddy, and now that they have elected him he feels empowered to do whatever he wants in Ukraine
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Mar 03 00:44:39 Rugian You sow the wind, you reap the wirlwind.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 03 01:27:24 Sam: That's so pathetic. "You made us do stupid shit, we couldn't help it. We are toddlers and had a tantrum when you told us to eat our vegetables."
Seb Member	Mon Mar 03 01:45:10 Like I said, so mad about having to treat black people as equal, you set fire to your system of government.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 03 01:50:13 Lol, and now I read your "government" is going to try and cook the books by lying about GDP figures. Like Argentina or Russia. That's going to do wonders for the economy. It will be interesting to see the financial interaction of a tidal wave of central bank backed Euro denominated warbonds with the US treasuries under the circumstances of an entirely self induced recession, decline in transparency, and concern about whether the US might deliberately default on debts as part of a Musky Trump genius plan. But hey, as long as you get rid of the DEI. Wouldn't want completely incompetent people being put in charge because of their skin colour.
williamthebastard Member	Mon Mar 03 01:51:14 The united states of america is about to be taught a serious lesson by the united democracies of the world about unprovokedly stabbing your friends in the back
murder Member	Mon Mar 03 07:28:07 "Sebs gain power, discriminate against whites and men, jack up taxes, import a bunch of criminals, stops punishing crime." You voted for a felon. You voted for a rapist. You voted for a guy who doesn't pay taxes, which leaves people like you owing more money. Quit dancing around it. Crime, discrimination, and taxes have nothing to do with anything.
murder Member	Mon Mar 03 07:29:01 You voted for a Russian asset.
murder Member	Mon Mar 03 07:30:44 "Half of europe is now discussing nuclear umbrellas to protect themselves against a predatory USA. The West is arming itself against the USA. Nice work, USA." No, the west is not arming itself against the US or Russia. They are talking about doing it. Unfortunately Europe tends to talk a lot and then not follow through.
murder Member	Mon Mar 03 07:34:15 "But hey, as long as you get rid of the DEI. Wouldn't want completely incompetent people being put in charge because of their skin colour." Unless that color is white.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Mar 03 11:36:16 "Crime, discrimination, and taxes have nothing to do with anything." Lolwut?
Seb Member	Mon Mar 03 11:39:17 Murder: Yes that was my point: they appointed a bunch of incompetent people because their skin was white.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Mar 03 11:41:42 Seb if you enact retarded policies you have to expect pushback against them. In this case it regrettably lead to the election of a retard. You seriously helped that retard get elected though. Unfortunately trumps retardation is leading you to go even more ballistically stupid in response it seems. Its like a retard arms race, with the sebs and the magas trying to see who can be more retarded.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Mar 03 11:43:27 "they appointed a bunch of incompetent people because their skin was white." Lol ok there kamala.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 03 11:49:57 Sam: "I hate black people, and I'm so mad about it in dousing myself in petrol and setting light to it! Look, see what you make me do, it's all your fault!"
Seb Member	Mon Mar 03 11:51:26 "Unfortunately trumps retardation is leading you to go even more ballistically stupid in response it seems." Cool, so what act of self-harm will you do next? I'll make some pop corn.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 03 11:53:58 "it's an arms race", says the trump supporter as he supports the destruction of his country, "there's a Brit who I think is wrong on the internet and it's making me so mad I'm going to let this crook fuck me over and undermine my country. And every time he points that out, I'm going to support the crook some more. That will show his limey ass!"
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