Utopia Talk - Politics - It seems that Putin now

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Utopia Talk / Politics / It seems that Putin now

patom
Member Mon Mar 03 04:30:29
has control of the Pentagon as Hegseth orders all cyber security to stop against Russia. Wow I feel so much safer now.
I can safely go back to reading that great Russian romance novel. "The Mad a Pashionit Russian" by E. Nauder Tittsoff.

Rugian
Member Mon Mar 03 05:10:03
You don't take security measures against allies.

Seb
Member Mon Mar 03 05:16:48
Aw bless. You think Russia is your ally.

Seb
Member Mon Mar 03 05:17:16
You aren't even going to get a reach around.

murder
Member Mon Mar 03 07:23:42

"It's always RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!"

Funny how that works out.

murder
Member Mon Mar 03 08:59:20

France has ‘trouble understanding’ US halt on cyber operations against Russia

French foreign minister said Russia is a clear cyber threat to European countries.

PARIS — French Foreign Affairs Minister Jean-Noël Barrot voiced his confusion over reports that the United States' Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered a halt of offensive cyber operations against Russia.

"I have a bit of trouble understanding [Hegseth's decision]," Barrot told public radio France Inter Monday. The French minister said European Union countries "are constantly the targets" of Russian cyberattacks.

Cybersecurity publication The Record on Friday reported that Hegseth had ordered U.S. Cyber Command to stand down from planning offensive cyber operations against Russia. The report was confirmed by other publications shortly after. Cyber Command is the U.S. Department of Defense's section conducting cyberattacks and cyberdefensive operations.

Hegseth's move raised eyebrows in Europe, where Russia is seen as a main threat in cyberspace together with China.

Both French diplomatic officials and President Emmanuel Macron have repeatedly accused Russia of engaging in hybrid warfare against France through cyberattacks. "Russia is attacking us on information, cyber," Macron said last month, claiming that Moscow was seeking to "destabilize our democracies."

A report published on Feb. 24 by Viginum, the French digital interference service, said France was "the subject of a particularly aggressive and persistent targeting by Russian information threat actors."

http://www...ber-operations-against-russia/

murder
Member Mon Mar 03 09:07:49

Europe is just stuck on stupid. Donald Trump could go to Europe drop his pants on TV and expose the "Property of Vladimir Putin" tattoo on his ass, and they will still be confused about why he's behaving this way instead defending the alliance.

This is why I roll my eyes at Seb and wtb and anyone else who claims that Europe is going to break away and build their own defense alliance and pursue their own foreign policy.

Europe doesn't see because they don't want to see. They don't want to see because seeing means having to take action, and taking action is the one thing they desperately want to avoid.

Europe will continue trying to "repair" the alliance with the US by sucking up to Trump even after Russian troops invade the Baltic states.

-

williamthebastard
Member Mon Mar 03 09:33:37
What are you talking about. France is using diplomatic language. The French govt certainly doesnt use words like "confused" when discussing this internally. Youre stuck in Trumps/the USA's perspective that youre the only tough guys around

Cherub Cow
Member Mon Mar 03 10:02:02
time for the shitlibs to go right back to "Russia, Russia, Russia" / "Russian asset" retard-posting

Seb
Member Mon Mar 03 11:36:00
Murder:

You understand that they are *not* confused, and do *not* have trouble understanding it, right?

murder
Member Mon Mar 03 16:17:28

No, I don't. There's literally no reason to say so if it wasn't the case. What would be the point?

williamthebastard
Member Mon Mar 03 16:19:31
Its political sepak, for gods sake. Its like when cops apprehend someone with a knife in his hand, blood all over his face, crouched over a corpse and calling him a "suspect." I dont believe you actually think theyre "confused."

williamthebastard
Member Mon Mar 03 16:31:42
I promise you the French use much stronger language about Trump in private meetings

murder
Member Mon Mar 03 17:14:51

"I dont believe you actually think theyre "confused.""

Yes I do. I also believe that they are trying to repair the relationship between Ukraine and the US and get the rape of Ukraine deal back on track.

I believe it because I'm looking at the evidence.

-

jergul
large member Mon Mar 03 20:31:22
Murder
Not that you nailed it, but you are expecting things to turn on a dime. It will take time. More than 4 years. But, yes, fundamentally, something has changed.

Seb
Member Tue Mar 04 00:25:12
Murder:

Buying time. Which you do also while pivoting.

jergul
large member Tue Mar 04 02:55:24
Seb
A bit unsophisticated of you in the other thread. A peace deal now has not and cannot deal with Ukrainian revanchist drives.

Russia is unlikely to provoke a new conflict under a security blanket. Ukraine definitely is.

Hence the caution on providing any such thing to Ukraine.

Hell, you could give one now if you trusted the Ukrainians. Any step beyond Dnipro will be regarded as an attack on Nato. For example.

Seb
Member Tue Mar 04 03:38:26
Jergul:

"Russia is unlikely to provoke a new conflict under a security blanket"

I'm sorry but I think this is completely wrong.

Russia's objective is to restructure Europe, further conflict is necessary to that end.

I'm sorry, but you are seeing patterns in the clouds and protecting a far higher level of sophistication onto both the present US govt and Russia.

"Any step beyond Dnipro will be regarded as an attack on Nato. For example."

The weak point is whether that would survive cruise missiles blowing up power stations in the UK, and whether Russia will test that.

Presently, Europe can't rely on the US to act as deterrence and Russia may not consider NATO minus the US to be a credible deterrent.

Nobody is rushing to war. Though I happen to think that the best way for Europe to establish credibility to deter Russia would be to intervene in Ukraine, rather than make ultimatums and then dare Russia to attack.

Seb
Member Tue Mar 04 03:42:15
Nim:

I've been arguing with Jergul on defence issues and Russia since before I was aware you existed!

Yes, I think you are a fifth column. You know full well my views on the necessity of military confrontation to stabilise Europe's border.

However you are increasingly aligned with the world view that has compromised the US. And that's the biggest problem for Europe, the group that focuses on internal division.

murder
Member Tue Mar 04 07:27:13

Nimatzo isn't in this thread.

murder
Member Tue Mar 04 07:31:26

"Hell, you could give one now if you trusted the Ukrainians. Any step beyond Dnipro will be regarded as an attack on Nato. For example."

Red lines are pointless when everyone knows you won't step up to defend them. Literally the only way to secure Europe from further Russian aggression is nuclear proliferation.

And I'm not talking about loaners. I mean that at the very least every European nation on or near a border with Russia or Belarus needs to have their own nuclear stockpile.

-

Seb
Member Tue Mar 04 07:54:44
Other one is full so figured the conversation would continue here.

Seb
Member Tue Mar 04 07:57:08
Murder:

That would be preferable but also much slower.

Not a lot of spare weapons grade Pu sitting around: any warheads will have to be loans in the short term. Even discounting npt etc. just no way to do it in only a few years.

And you have issues like "where is Estonia going to test a nuclear bomb?"

Seb
Member Tue Mar 04 07:59:11
Realistically, loans is the only option for the Baltics.

Poland and Germany have other options, but loan is the only one you can measure in months rather than years.

murder
Member Tue Mar 04 08:30:38

"And you have issues like "where is Estonia going to test a nuclear bomb?""

Moscow? Leningrad?

Or if those aren't good, there's always the ocean.

patom
Member Wed Mar 05 07:51:11
So far Russia has made it pretty clear that their army sucks. They way outnumber the Ukrainians. Yet they seem to have piss poor logistics and profound inability to march through Ukraine, like I and many others predicted. All Europe has to do is reinforce the Ukraine military just like Putin has had to begging N. Korea for troops.

He does have his buttboy Trump doing his utmost to destroy Americas credibility and any capability to conduct war.

murder
Member Wed Mar 05 08:38:24

"All Europe has to do is reinforce the Ukraine military just like Putin has had to begging N. Korea for troops."

No. It would be better to apply pressure elsewhere. My choice would be helping Finland regain the territory that the Soviets stole from them, retaking Kaliningrad, destroying Russia's troops in Moldova and Georgia, and targeting the Russian Navy and Air Force assets anywhere they can reach them.

Russia's strength is their human mass. You want to stretch them out and engage only where you have an advantage.

murder
Member Wed Mar 05 09:22:39

And they should target Belarus of course.

-

patom
Member Thu Mar 06 04:26:51
Their human mass hasn't really done all that well in sweeping through Ukraine.

murder
Member Thu Mar 06 07:20:39

But it keeps coming.

show deleted posts

patom Member	Mon Mar 03 04:30:29 has control of the Pentagon as Hegseth orders all cyber security to stop against Russia. Wow I feel so much safer now. I can safely go back to reading that great Russian romance novel. "The Mad a Pashionit Russian" by E. Nauder Tittsoff.
Rugian Member	Mon Mar 03 05:10:03 You don't take security measures against allies.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 03 05:16:48 Aw bless. You think Russia is your ally.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 03 05:17:16 You aren't even going to get a reach around.
murder Member	Mon Mar 03 07:23:42 "It's always RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!" Funny how that works out.
murder Member	Mon Mar 03 08:59:20 France has ‘trouble understanding’ US halt on cyber operations against Russia French foreign minister said Russia is a clear cyber threat to European countries. PARIS — French Foreign Affairs Minister Jean-Noël Barrot voiced his confusion over reports that the United States' Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered a halt of offensive cyber operations against Russia. "I have a bit of trouble understanding [Hegseth's decision]," Barrot told public radio France Inter Monday. The French minister said European Union countries "are constantly the targets" of Russian cyberattacks. Cybersecurity publication The Record on Friday reported that Hegseth had ordered U.S. Cyber Command to stand down from planning offensive cyber operations against Russia. The report was confirmed by other publications shortly after. Cyber Command is the U.S. Department of Defense's section conducting cyberattacks and cyberdefensive operations. Hegseth's move raised eyebrows in Europe, where Russia is seen as a main threat in cyberspace together with China. Both French diplomatic officials and President Emmanuel Macron have repeatedly accused Russia of engaging in hybrid warfare against France through cyberattacks. "Russia is attacking us on information, cyber," Macron said last month, claiming that Moscow was seeking to "destabilize our democracies." A report published on Feb. 24 by Viginum, the French digital interference service, said France was "the subject of a particularly aggressive and persistent targeting by Russian information threat actors." http://www...ber-operations-against-russia/
murder Member	Mon Mar 03 09:07:49 Europe is just stuck on stupid. Donald Trump could go to Europe drop his pants on TV and expose the "Property of Vladimir Putin" tattoo on his ass, and they will still be confused about why he's behaving this way instead defending the alliance. This is why I roll my eyes at Seb and wtb and anyone else who claims that Europe is going to break away and build their own defense alliance and pursue their own foreign policy. Europe doesn't see because they don't want to see. They don't want to see because seeing means having to take action, and taking action is the one thing they desperately want to avoid. Europe will continue trying to "repair" the alliance with the US by sucking up to Trump even after Russian troops invade the Baltic states. -
williamthebastard Member	Mon Mar 03 09:33:37 What are you talking about. France is using diplomatic language. The French govt certainly doesnt use words like "confused" when discussing this internally. Youre stuck in Trumps/the USA's perspective that youre the only tough guys around
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Mar 03 10:02:02 time for the shitlibs to go right back to "Russia, Russia, Russia" / "Russian asset" retard-posting
Seb Member	Mon Mar 03 11:36:00 Murder: You understand that they are not confused, and do not have trouble understanding it, right?
murder Member	Mon Mar 03 16:17:28 No, I don't. There's literally no reason to say so if it wasn't the case. What would be the point?
williamthebastard Member	Mon Mar 03 16:19:31 Its political sepak, for gods sake. Its like when cops apprehend someone with a knife in his hand, blood all over his face, crouched over a corpse and calling him a "suspect." I dont believe you actually think theyre "confused."
williamthebastard Member	Mon Mar 03 16:31:42 I promise you the French use much stronger language about Trump in private meetings
murder Member	Mon Mar 03 17:14:51 "I dont believe you actually think theyre "confused."" Yes I do. I also believe that they are trying to repair the relationship between Ukraine and the US and get the rape of Ukraine deal back on track. I believe it because I'm looking at the evidence. -
jergul large member	Mon Mar 03 20:31:22 Murder Not that you nailed it, but you are expecting things to turn on a dime. It will take time. More than 4 years. But, yes, fundamentally, something has changed.
Seb Member	Tue Mar 04 00:25:12 Murder: Buying time. Which you do also while pivoting.
jergul large member	Tue Mar 04 02:55:24 Seb A bit unsophisticated of you in the other thread. A peace deal now has not and cannot deal with Ukrainian revanchist drives. Russia is unlikely to provoke a new conflict under a security blanket. Ukraine definitely is. Hence the caution on providing any such thing to Ukraine. Hell, you could give one now if you trusted the Ukrainians. Any step beyond Dnipro will be regarded as an attack on Nato. For example.
Seb Member	Tue Mar 04 03:38:26 Jergul: "Russia is unlikely to provoke a new conflict under a security blanket" I'm sorry but I think this is completely wrong. Russia's objective is to restructure Europe, further conflict is necessary to that end. I'm sorry, but you are seeing patterns in the clouds and protecting a far higher level of sophistication onto both the present US govt and Russia. "Any step beyond Dnipro will be regarded as an attack on Nato. For example." The weak point is whether that would survive cruise missiles blowing up power stations in the UK, and whether Russia will test that. Presently, Europe can't rely on the US to act as deterrence and Russia may not consider NATO minus the US to be a credible deterrent. Nobody is rushing to war. Though I happen to think that the best way for Europe to establish credibility to deter Russia would be to intervene in Ukraine, rather than make ultimatums and then dare Russia to attack.
Seb Member	Tue Mar 04 03:42:15 Nim: I've been arguing with Jergul on defence issues and Russia since before I was aware you existed! Yes, I think you are a fifth column. You know full well my views on the necessity of military confrontation to stabilise Europe's border. However you are increasingly aligned with the world view that has compromised the US. And that's the biggest problem for Europe, the group that focuses on internal division.
murder Member	Tue Mar 04 07:27:13 Nimatzo isn't in this thread.
murder Member	Tue Mar 04 07:31:26 "Hell, you could give one now if you trusted the Ukrainians. Any step beyond Dnipro will be regarded as an attack on Nato. For example." Red lines are pointless when everyone knows you won't step up to defend them. Literally the only way to secure Europe from further Russian aggression is nuclear proliferation. And I'm not talking about loaners. I mean that at the very least every European nation on or near a border with Russia or Belarus needs to have their own nuclear stockpile. -
Seb Member	Tue Mar 04 07:54:44 Other one is full so figured the conversation would continue here.
Seb Member	Tue Mar 04 07:57:08 Murder: That would be preferable but also much slower. Not a lot of spare weapons grade Pu sitting around: any warheads will have to be loans in the short term. Even discounting npt etc. just no way to do it in only a few years. And you have issues like "where is Estonia going to test a nuclear bomb?"
Seb Member	Tue Mar 04 07:59:11 Realistically, loans is the only option for the Baltics. Poland and Germany have other options, but loan is the only one you can measure in months rather than years.
murder Member	Tue Mar 04 08:30:38 "And you have issues like "where is Estonia going to test a nuclear bomb?"" Moscow? Leningrad? Or if those aren't good, there's always the ocean.
patom Member	Wed Mar 05 07:51:11 So far Russia has made it pretty clear that their army sucks. They way outnumber the Ukrainians. Yet they seem to have piss poor logistics and profound inability to march through Ukraine, like I and many others predicted. All Europe has to do is reinforce the Ukraine military just like Putin has had to begging N. Korea for troops. He does have his buttboy Trump doing his utmost to destroy Americas credibility and any capability to conduct war.
murder Member	Wed Mar 05 08:38:24 "All Europe has to do is reinforce the Ukraine military just like Putin has had to begging N. Korea for troops." No. It would be better to apply pressure elsewhere. My choice would be helping Finland regain the territory that the Soviets stole from them, retaking Kaliningrad, destroying Russia's troops in Moldova and Georgia, and targeting the Russian Navy and Air Force assets anywhere they can reach them. Russia's strength is their human mass. You want to stretch them out and engage only where you have an advantage.
murder Member	Wed Mar 05 09:22:39 And they should target Belarus of course. -
patom Member	Thu Mar 06 04:26:51 Their human mass hasn't really done all that well in sweeping through Ukraine.
murder Member	Thu Mar 06 07:20:39 But it keeps coming.
	show deleted posts

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