Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump "trolling" Greenland during SOTU

murder Member	Wed Mar 05 10:53:48 "We need it really for international world security, and I think we're going to get it one way or the other." http://www.youtube.com/shorts/mqIIlZB2cXg
TheChildren Member	Wed Mar 05 10:58:42 everybody needs land 4 intanational securities aint it come join da most succesful empire eva. china. we wuld make lots of moniez 2gther. imagine havin shiny buildings and bridges and actual high speed trains!
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Mar 05 11:00:37 & "world security" makes no sense as he has no interest in protecting anyone plus we already have a military base there & could negotiate more w/o owning the whole thing but it's just so adorable when he lies to all of us, apparently... (& when he repeatedly harms relations w/ our once allies for no gain at all)
www.yeswecansong.com Member	Wed Mar 05 12:22:59 "We strongly support your right to determine your own future" (5 seconds later) "And I think we’re going to get it — one way or the other, we’re going to get it" More demented than Biden.
williamthebastard Member	Sun Mar 09 09:39:04 EU ANNOUNCES €800 BILLION DEFENSE PLAN
williamthebastard Member	Sun Mar 09 09:41:36 Also, I doubt that anyone is going to be interested in the dollar as reserve currency in the near future
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 09 09:47:31 You doubt wrongly. As much as you, Seb, and the EU establishment are melting down over Trump's rhetoric, what he's doing for you is a good thing. Multiple previous US administrations have tried and failed to get Europe to spend more on its own defense. Trump's moves are what finally got you people moving on that front. The end result will be of mutual benefit to the US and Europe. For the latter, they will be able to once again defend their own countries and assist each other in times of need. Once we're past the histrionics, Europe will come to appreciate what Trump did for them.
murder Member	Sun Mar 09 09:54:48 And Americans will curse his name.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 09 10:05:48 Rugian: Good for us, bad for you, but not as good for either of us as a United west would have been. What you don't understand is there will be no return to something like the 90s or 2000's, just with Europe armed to the teeth. The entire basis of the alliance has been broken. If we don't *need* the US for defence, and can't trust the US for services or finance because it can be used as a weapon against us, what *do* we have common cause with the US on? Freedom and democracy? We've all seen Orban and recognise the pattern. Plus you've just fucked over Ukraine. And that comes after Afghanistan. No rugian, if you are imagining that at some point Europe, armed and strong, comes back to your US and says "ah, at last, we are ready to be partners", that's not going to happen. What's going to happen is Europe is going to lead de-dollarisation of trade, and onshore tech services. It's going to feel to Americans like the EU is doing what China is and being terribly unfair and directly attacking the source of your wealth, but that's what deglobalisation and independence means.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 09 10:22:11 When Trump pulls the trigger on tarrifs, citing VAT (which is trade neutral) the EU is going to treat it as trade coercion as it's aimed at forcing a policy change rather than trade dispute. Those measures include the suspension of intellectual property rights for persons in the target country. This was drawn up aimed at China and it's bullying of smaller EU countries, but the EC has already said it will just it at the US. Pause for a second and think what that means: a tidal wave of tech aimed at breaking US firms DRM unleashed onto global markets. That's coming in the midst of a recession triggered by massive US cuts and European rearmament flooding the market with safe sovereign assets (between the EU and Germany we are talking something like a trillion euros of stimulus over 5 years), as an alternative to treasury bonds, and consequent demand for Euros to buy said debt with, meaning plenty of folks happy to take Euros in payment to buy debt. At the same time, the project 2025 guys big idea is that they are going to get US trade partners to accept massive exchanges of short term US debt in exchange for low yield long term US debt (a technical default) under threat of tarrifs and offers of security guarantees. The idea being this boosts us reindustrialisation by devaluing the dollar and while reducing debt servicing costs. But... why would you do this as US trade partner? The US threatens tarrifs repeatedly - so why bother making a concession today when the US will play the same card tomorrow? And what value are US security guarantees or tech based exports if they will be turned off on a whim by withdrawing service contracts? And for Europe, why would you want to finance US reindustrialisation rather than European? The next five years looks potentially brutal for the US. It's not inconceivable the US faces an actual debt crisis due to the confluence of events Trump has unleashed through erosion of the dollar system. If that happens, who bails you out? The IMF? This kind of stupidity is part of the reason why Argentina imploded in the 19th C and was overtaken by the US. It never recovered.
williamthebastard Member	Sun Mar 09 13:52:35 Rugian doesnt even believe himself. But in a perverted way, liberalism will quite possibly thank the USA for being the dying canary in the fascist goldmine that is fueling a liberal counterreaction.
williamthebastard Member	Sun Mar 09 15:14:51 Time for Europe to take over leadership of the free world again, since the US has shown it doesnt have the capacity or competence
Paramount Member	Sun Mar 09 15:47:43 Like Europe has the competence or the capacity. If the Europe is to take over leadership we need a complete new set of leaders. Also. The free world? Who is that? Europe and Canada? So Europe is going to take over leadership of Europe and Canada? :o)
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