Utopia Talk / Politics / There are a lot of Sebs in the UK

murder Member	Thu Mar 06 11:47:09 "I have never seen the British Parliament behaving like this. Truly remarkable and historic." http://www...cLXYaNUKEM85oZp4h5iIIqkvUETXFY
Paramount Member	Thu Mar 06 12:16:36 What did they do?
Seb Member	Thu Mar 06 12:29:06 This is a bit out of date
Seb Member	Thu Mar 06 12:29:58 People are far far more pissed off since Vance called the UK a random country that hasn't fought a war in 40 years
Rugian Member	Thu Mar 06 12:35:43 Vance's underlying point was valid though. The UK and France do not have the ability to independently maintain an effective peace in the Ukraine.
murder Member	Thu Mar 06 12:39:32 "... in the Ukraine" subtle
Paramount Member	Thu Mar 06 12:52:58 Trump asked Kid Starver if the UK could take on Russia by itself. Starver replied with a nervous laugh.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 06 14:03:21 Rugian: Largely because, with US encouragement, we've not invested in our own duplicate capabilities like ISTAR and inflight refueling tankers, and relied on US capability instead and focused on kinetic end. So yes, his point is valid, in the sense the US knows dammed well that key capabilities only it can provide are needed because through decades it's lobbied this dependency and is now stabbing us in the back. So fuck the US. We will find a way one way or the other, and then after that, it's time to fuck the US through every means short of war, and make sure this never, every happens again.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 06 15:10:44 Lol seb now you know how israel feels towards you.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 07 04:23:39 Sam: Strange, I recall that the RAF team and still runs spy planes over Gaza for Israel, and intercepted missiles from Iran and the Houthis. Unlike the US which is refusing even to provide warning of Russian launches and disabling intelligence links, and refusing to provide ISTAR and inflight refueling for a European peace keeping force. But Sam, we've always known you live in a disinfo bubble.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 07 04:23:51 https://www.ft.com/content/3046013f-da85-4987-92a5-4a9e3008a9e1
Seb Member	Fri Mar 07 04:26:46 http://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ljpklfbr4c2k
Seb Member	Fri Mar 07 04:27:00 Two sets of interesting poll data.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 07 04:30:02 Fundamentally the take aways here: 1. Trump has fundamentally lost Europe and probably many other countries. 2. The values of the US Right have diverged hugely from the rest of the free world. This divergence seems to be linked to the GWOT and the financial crisis. 3. This is likely to have profound economic and geopolitical consequences for the US.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 07 04:45:35 I think the likely result is that there's no landing ground of a deal that Russia or Ukraine will accept. Emboldened by Trump's support for Russia and pressure on Ukraine, Putin will not be willing to accept any deal Ukraine will accept. The US will use this to first demand Europe pressures Ukraine, but the US is no longer credible as a security guarantor and Europe believes Russian aggression will continue. Ukraine with European support will continue the war than an unstable temporary peace based on huge concessions to Russia; and the US will use the excuse to withdraw.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 07 05:23:30 Hmm and now the US govt has leaned on maxar to cut off commercial grade satellite recon. This is going to be absolutely brilliant for US tech companies. Can you really trust any service coming out of the US to not be subject to govt interference?
murder Member	Fri Mar 07 08:15:41 Not that Trump is a Russian asset or anything.
Forwyn Member	Fri Mar 07 09:27:31 "1. Trump has fundamentally lost Europe and probably many other countries." How'd your summit go? "2. The values of the US Right have diverged hugely from the rest of the free world. This divergence seems to be linked to the GWOT and the financial crisis." Lol
Seb Member	Fri Mar 07 11:29:52 Forwyn: "How'd your summit go?" Lol. Ok, I'm guessing you just watching Fox or something that isn't reporting on the spending packages.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 07 12:23:20 Seb on israel = trump on ukraine. Trying to defend one but not the other is not logical.
obaminated Member	Fri Mar 07 15:11:26 Well trump made it pretty clear that he is with Israel now. Ukraine is a lost cause. It sucks but putin is not going to give up and he doesn't care about death tolls. He is your typical Russian dictator. Make a deal with him. Allow American companies access to Ukrainian natural minerals and we will have a vested interest in that country that will convince putin not to invade again.
murder Member	Fri Mar 07 17:24:05 Why is that? Trump has already made clear that he's scared to death of WWIII, so he's not going to confront Russia if they do invade again. That's the problem with telling the world that you're a pussy.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 08 03:07:14 This kind of lying, Sam, is how you ended up with Trump.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 08 03:12:54 "When the truth offends, we lie and lie until we can no longer remember it is even there, but it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid." A very good and astute line.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 08 07:18:33 http://you...ald-trump-and-national-defence
Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 08 10:40:04 Lol seb of all people coming out with that line? Hilarious.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 08 15:58:39 Sam: I'm not the one pretending that a policy of defending Israel but asking for it to refrain from warcrimes is equivalent to the US's cowardly backstab to cut off Ukrainian early warning and air defense missiles in public so Russia can bomb the shit out of it. I know you think failure to support mass killing of Palestinian kids is, to you, a form of anti-semitism but even given that; the distinction is obvious.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 08 16:00:37 Anyway, ultimately I'm not the one living in a state transitioning into and autocracy, tanking it's economy for no good reason and alienating all of its allies. Good luck Sam, you'll need it.
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