Utopia Talk / Politics / Tesla gone Wirecard?

Seb Member	Thu Mar 20 07:29:47 Interesting article on the FT today pointing out a huge gap in Tesla accounts and how strange it is taking on more debt while also reporting large cash flows. It's obviously carefully layered, but the similarity to how the Wirecard fraud broke and the similar pattern is raising eyebrows. Of course, you may recall the Wirecard fraud resulted in uncovering the COO of the firm as a Russian spy...
murder Member	Thu Mar 20 09:58:58 I don't even remember Wirecard. I'm not sure that made news in the US.
murder Member	Thu Mar 20 10:08:47 Based on the fact that all of Elon's businesses are built on fraud and bullshit, I'd say there's a better than even chance that he's been cooking the books for years.
murder Member	Thu Mar 20 10:15:21 Tesla is a dead car company. In western nations Elon has become toxic and more and more of his target market doesn't want to buy his cars. And everywhere else he can't compete with the much cheaper Chinese EVs. He knows it, and that's why he turned to his humanoid robot bullshit. Elon's best sellers are hopium and vaporware. -
Rugian Member	Thu Mar 20 10:40:50 Tesla stock went on a tear after the election and was frankly way overvalued. It's now undergoing a necessary correction. Plus the entire stock market is down anyway. Leftists: LOL TeSlA iS dOoMeD $225 AnD fALlInG
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 20 11:41:55 "Based on the fact that all of Elon's businesses are built on fraud and bullshit" Wait he only invented EVs, leads the world in EVs, and his rocket just rescued 2 astronauts. I know hes kindof crazy but this is just butthurt nonsense on the part of murder.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 20 11:44:35 "the much cheaper Chinese EVs." Who in their right mind would buy a chinese car? Sure maybe in 10 years after a few chinese companies prove reliable... but after seeing the flood of chinese junk filling amazon markets... thats a huge risk.
murder Member	Thu Mar 20 11:47:35 "Wait he only invented EVs" You are obviously trolling. "leads the world in EVs" Not anymore he doesn't. "and his rocket just rescued 2 astronauts." Congratulations on doing what the US, the Russian, and the Chinese, have been doing routinely for decades. Or did Elon invent rockets too? -
murder Member	Thu Mar 20 11:50:19 "Who in their right mind would buy a chinese car?" http://www.google.com/search?q=byd+vs+tesla+quality
murder Member	Thu Mar 20 11:52:15 If BYD has had a recall because panels are falling off their cars, I haven't heard about it.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 20 13:54:10 Lmfao. Go ahead and get a chinese car then. Lets see how that works for you.
Forwyn Member	Thu Mar 20 15:09:20 "US, the Russian, and the Chinese, have been doing routinely for decades." AKA a small private company has replicated what three global superpowers have done. Something that the UK, France, Germany, India, Australia, South Africa, Brazil, etc etc etc have not been able to do. lol
murder Member	Thu Mar 20 15:25:04 "AKA a small private company has replicated what ..." Other companies have been doing for decades. The US government didn't manufacture the rockets that put men on the moon.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 20 16:33:36 Forwyn: What do you mean? You never heard of Arianne?
jergul large member	Thu Mar 20 16:54:46 JP Morgan guidance is Tesla at 125 at the end of the year. Tesla will be in serious trouble if its car sales do not increase almost exponentially. Sammy Chinese industrial tolerance standards are very good.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 20 17:43:36 Lol the chinese stuff i see says otherwise. "You never heard of Arianne?" Has that ever carried a human ever?
Seb Member	Thu Mar 20 17:54:42 Sam: They scrapped these manned space plane back in the 1990s, no point in it. They've been various suggestions, but fundamentally the business case isn't there. It's not that it can't be done, it's that it's not really that sensible when the strategic utility of space is remote monitoring. Just like how the US never built a supersonic passenger plane. Though of course I don't think Boeing could pull that off these days.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 20 22:12:36 Ahhhh so you couldnt do what spacex did. The rest is just excuses.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 20 22:19:42 And speaking of maintaining basic competence in aviation... hows heathrow looking today? Lulz. Brilliant time to bring that up seb.
obaminated Member	Thu Mar 20 22:49:26 Remember a year ago, prior to musk endorsing trump, when the left loved tesla. Remember when the left actively lobbied to force EV onto people over "climate change"? I guess it was all shit they didn't really believe in because now they want to destroy tesla and have us all drive gas cars again. Rofl. You guys are so fucking see through.
obaminated Member	Thu Mar 20 22:50:40 Schumer said it best on the view when he mocked Americans for wanting to keep their money and not pay taxes. Yeah dude. I want low taxes and I want to keep the money I work for. You guys are so out of touch.
murder Member	Fri Mar 21 00:23:52 "I guess it was all shit they didn't really believe in because now they want to destroy tesla and have us all drive gas cars again. Rofl. You guys are so fucking see through." You'll be happy to know that Teslas aren't the only EVs available for sale. Which is great news because Teslas are garbage. -
murder Member	Fri Mar 21 00:25:34 It's funny watching right wingers get emotional because some rich guy is losing money.
obaminated Member	Fri Mar 21 01:10:47 No one is in tears over it. You just played yourselves and we all see it.
TheChildren Member	Fri Mar 21 02:12:04 there aint no hypaloops comin, kids. there aint no spaceship 2 mars neither, sebs rofl did u just figure this out. me and my homies been sayin this 4 years HAHAHA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6itLTHfJXdw BUHAHAHAA holy shit, did u peoples just figure this out. tesla is a fraud since 2014, there aint no humanoids, ai or other bs mindcontrol devices comin holy shit u people r dumb hahaha
TheChildren Member	Fri Mar 21 02:12:45 Chinese cars btw, are fuckin SUPERIOR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QOa__xaCPs deal with it, sam foolams
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 02:16:20 Sam: "Can't" and "won't" are two different things.
TheChildren Member	Fri Mar 21 02:20:57 ya prolly also think he is runnin all his 7 (or 9 or 11? i lost count) of his giant companies as ceo while he also plays runecraft in da nights holy shit u peoples r dumb BUHAHAH he aint runnin shit. he is just da front face of da giant ponzi scheme of an entire criminal entaprise runs it and everytime his con is runnin out, he opens a new "company" with grand fantasies about future techs which of course will never come coz by da time idiot public is askin questions, he moves on 2 da next con company
TheChildren Member	Fri Mar 21 02:22:48 and fatherin 14 kids on da side... holy moly how gullible r u peoples BUHHAHAAAA
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 02:28:20 Also the Heathrow thing is a 10 storey fire at a major electrical substation. Some suggestions of sabotage. Not entirely sure it's in the same class of forgetting to put rivets into your aircraft.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 21 02:36:25 Yah, sammy, get it right. UK grid management sucks, not its aircraft management.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 21 06:13:55 So heathrow, perhaps the most important piece of real estate in your entire country, has no backup generators? A single substation for the entire airport? Ok i could see a real airport axing some of the semi-domestic little flights to the EU and what not to help a little but turning around all those heavies mid-flight is retards work. Hilarious tracks through(theres a 100 of these): http://www...story/20250320/2335Z/KLAX/KLAX
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 06:21:21 The backup generator was also "affected". And there appears to be a problem with the redundant backup generator. The phrases being used (given substations erupting into 10 storey high infernos isn't something that has tended to happen) is that "the causes and circumstances are highly unusual". I wouldn't be so quick to speculate Sam, that the causes are mismanagement.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 06:22:11 "Speaking later on Good Morning Britain, he said the National Grid told him they had not seen "anything like the scale" of what happened with the fire.""
jergul large member	Fri Mar 21 06:25:38 There you go. At least talking about the right thing. Heathrow uses 3.5 GW/h, or slightly more than Nigeria's total electricity production. Can you link me up with a 3.5 GW/h generator? The problem is grid redundancy. The US is way worse of course. You have completely rediculous grid issues including lack of connectivity between electricity regions.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 06:26:31 One might wonder why the counter terrorism police were onsite.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 21 06:28:15 Seb Heathrow does not have generator capacity to carry it through a power outage. Emergency lighting was prolly working ok along with communications and a couple radars so air controllers could avoid unfortunate collisions and get aircraft in holding positions before redirecting to other airports.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 21 06:34:34 Work on your units jergul. Oh, seb, your backup generators were nonfunctional? So nonfunctional they couldnt be fixed in a day? Not even just a little power to keep international arrivals open? Lmfao.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 06:41:35 Jergul: They aren't talking about ity bitty little back up diesel generators. That 3.5GW isn't all critical operations (is effectively a huge retail park, cold storage etc etc). But yes, backups aren't going to sustain full operations, but let you manage disruption better. More than just "emergency lighting". Theres a primary backup close to the substation that was damaged, and a secondary backup near another substation. There's othee connections but switching isn't trivial especially when you've lost an entire 33kv circuit powering not just the airport. The airport probably doesn't have a dedicated connection to the grid. That's the complexity, you are handling a large shift in load to not just the airport but a fairly large chunk of London both residential/commercial and industrial. Takes a few hours. If there was no redundancy in the grid, Heathrow would be out for months, not hours.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 06:42:09 Sam: You are asking the wrong questions :-)
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 06:48:15 And yes that figure isn't right. 420GWH per year electrical is what it consumes. I leave it to someone else to work out what that means in terms of electrical power.
williamthebastard Member	Fri Mar 21 07:25:26 The FT article was written by the same guy who exposed Wirecard and he's now digging into Tesla. He seems pretty convinced somethings going on here
Forwyn Member	Fri Mar 21 09:28:46 "It's not that it can't be done, it's that it's not really that sensible when the strategic utility of space is remote monitoring." Yeah this is like saying Bezos could have done it because the Glenn reached orbit. Maybe with five years' dedicated effort, but abandoned is abandoned.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 21 10:54:01 "That's the complexity, you are handling a large shift in load to not just the airport but a fairly large chunk of London both residential/commercial and industrial. Takes a few hours." Rofl. It actually takes milliseconds. In a first world country, an entire 1 GW power plant could trip offline or a 200MW mainline could go down with the surge of a lightning strike and the grid responds so fast that you barely notice a voltage drop even with a sensitive monitor. Somewhere in the grid you should have enough capacitor storage to cover a few milliseconds till the batteries come on, enough batteries to tide you over till the thermal plants pick up or peakers come online. Heathrow and its 50MW should barely register to a proper grid.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 10:55:10 I think people are confusing what a substation means in this context. This is the 275kv substation managing distribution from the grid to the region, not 33 or 11kv local distribution. Heathrow probably has redundancy for those (as in connects to several local distribution networks). The distribution network can connect to another 275kv substation but true switching and load balancing takes time. Forwyn: Ok, but would you agree with the statement "The US can't build a large supersonic passenger jet"? It *hasn't*, but that is not the same as "can't".
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 11:01:21 Sam: "It actually takes milliseconds" Lol no. Not unless you want to blow shit up. Clearly you skipped the transmission lines modules in E&M. "1 GW power plant could trip offline or a 200MW mainline could go down with the surge of a lightning strike and the grid responds so fast that you barely notice a voltage drop even with a sensitive monitor." On what scale? A 1 GW plant getting disconnected from your 400kv transmissions isn't the same as commissioning a new line from scratch. "Heathrow and its 50MW should barely register to a proper grid." You are kinda missing the point. You think Heathrow's 11kv substation blew up. Heathrow probably has several of those connected to multiple distribution loops. It's the next level up that's blown up, and it's not just Heathrow impacted. It's only Heathrow that is on the international news.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 11:14:27 T1,3,5 have power
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 11:21:54 Just flip a switch and connect an entire regional distribution and associated substations that are currently isolated to the 400kv transmission network in a millisecond. What could go wrong?!
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 21 12:21:40 ""It actually takes milliseconds" Lol no. Not unless you want to blow shit up. " "What could go wrong?!" Nothing goes wrong if you do it right. Ive been in the grid control room when gigawatt plants dissipear instantly. I remember when some seb-level iq took down an entire 5 core CC plant for repairs at once rather than the 1 core at a time we were expecting. Frequency on the west coast shifted from 60hz to 59.5 for a few cycles and grid ops was PISSED. Back in my energy trading days. Ive seen this all happen with my own eyes. The machines react and have everything calmed down before we humans even know theres a problem. Third world countries like iran and cuban and apperently the UK, might not be able to make this work but the US grids ive worked with stay nearly perfectly stable when you just took a gigawatt hit or a lightning strike. Its called grid for a reason seb. Everything is wired in parallel and thus everything is backed up, except mountain towns where simple geography dictates a single line... not applicable at all to london. Even if you did incompetently knock heathrow off the grid, there should be enough backup diesels to operate. The fact that you failed both is hilarious.
TheChildren Member	Fri Mar 21 12:34:09 this GEM just popped up on freakit http://www...nvestors_to_hold_their_shares/ is he speakin in africanese, da fuck is he sayin
Rugian Member	Fri Mar 21 12:35:20 HOLD DA LINE
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 12:36:57 Sam: "Ive been in the grid control room when gigawatt plants dissipear instantly" So have I. But power dropping off the grid is not the same thing as pushing it into a previously offline ring or radial. The two things are not equivalent. It's a really good way to blow up the step down transformers on your distribution ring.
Rugian Member	Fri Mar 21 12:38:35 Tesla Inc TSLA:NASDAQ 247.13 up +10.87 (+4.60%) ----- Rofl. The line holds!
jergul large member	Fri Mar 21 12:40:41 Ruggy You really think so? The fundamentals are not there and Musk has destroyed his hype advantage. Sammy You are using an example of how a GW power unit goes poof to argue how great the US electric system is? GG.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 12:41:16 Wait ... You don't think a substation means a power station do you?
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 21 12:42:41 It is amazing how stable you can make a modern grid... seperated by 1000s of miles, mountains, through howling winds earthquakes wildfires equipment failures and lighting strikes... and its still so stable that less than a single hz freq shift is considered a major infraction. At least to competent nations that is :)
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 21 12:45:16 "So have I." Aha. That explains heathrow. Lol.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 21 12:52:34 "You are using an example of how a GW power unit goes poof to argue how great the US electric system is?" Ya. Its called redundancy. Power plants trip offline. Especially when you live in a place with lightning. Make a system that can handle errors. Trees fall on substations. Eagles try to nest on transformers. Lightning hits all over everywhere. All manner of sebs and jerguls run backhoes into towers. Rednecks sometimes shoot lines for fun. The loss of a single substation should never be close to knocking out your countries only major airport for a day.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 12:55:24 Oh my god you really don't understand the difference between a generator going off line and a substation going off line. Oh Jesus just stop. It's embarrassing.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 21 13:09:19 Seb i was giving you an example of a bad case scenario that a good grid handles with ease. Compared with the loss of a major power plant, heathrow's little substation is trivial. And you cant even handle that. "So have I." And now we know why :)
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 13:14:52 "Trees fall on substations" How the fuck does that happen? A 275 kv substation is the size of a fucking out of town shopping centre carpark and filled with multiple transformers and high voltage switches. This is what they look like. http://www...ses-275kv-substation-in-alyth/ If you are letting trees grow close enough to the boundary that they fall onto part of it, you done fucked up bad. The substation handles the step down from the 275kv lines of the national grid to the regional distribution ring, off of which hang 33kv and 11kv local distribution rings. If you lose an entire 275kv substation which is incredibly rare (why do you think the counter terrorist police are all over it Sam? It's so unusual the first assumption is it's the Russians doing what they've been doing in Europe for a bit) then you are in effect breaking that ring and turning it into two radial distribution networks instead. It's not at all the same as losing some generation capacity: the national grid evens that out trivially. For the rest of the grid, sure a bunch of load disappeared. No Biggie. But for the distribution rings hanging off the 257kv ring that just got broken, those get de-energised. What you are dealing with then is pushing a bunch of oscillating high voltage into a bunch of inductive and capacitive load currently at static 0 volts; not simply disconnecting load or generating capacity from the system. To bring the broken ring back up as two radials takes a while. You need a switching sequence on the previous and next substation on the 275kv ring, and there's the normal testing you need to do for the de-energised 11kv and 33kv distribution networks you are bringing up. You fuck it up, and you blow a bunch of step-down transformers in the distribution networks you are trying to re-energise. They'll probably do it tonight to minimise disruption to the rest of the region.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 13:16:32 Sam probably thinks we are talking about one of these: https://rjpowergroup.co.uk/case/new-11kv-substation-upgrade/ Lol
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 13:16:44 http://rjpowergroup.co.uk/case/new-11kv-substation-upgrade/
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 21 13:33:19 "How the fuck does that happen?" Incompetence, laziness, environmental regulations, doug firs(really really big trees that you don't have), very high winds. Usually a mix of some of those. Yes obviously we should cut every tree within striking distance but we dont. If you saw a 300 foot tall doug fir you wouldnt touch it either. That trees too badass to cut. "It's not at all the same as losing some generation capacity" Ya its much easier to replace a substation than a big power plant. Even if you couldnt where are the diesel backups that heathrow should have. Fail and fail some more seb.
williamthebastard Member	Fri Mar 21 14:11:42 Elon needs to fire more air traffic controllers https://www.reuters.com/world/us/southwest-flight-cancels-takeoff-after-crew-mistook-orlando-taxiway-runway-2025-03-20/?link_source=ta_first_comment&taid=67dd9d738bc5a000011f5d97&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook
williamthebastard Member	Fri Mar 21 14:12:13 http://www...ndo-taxiway-runway-2025-03-20/
Rugian Member	Fri Mar 21 14:19:35 WTB That just happens every so often. A famous example from 2017: http://m.y...YXZpYXRpb24gc2ZvIHRheGl3YXk%3D
Seb Member	Fri Mar 21 16:16:57 Yeah, I'm just sure you build a giant fucking switching yard next to a stand of Douglas firs. "Ya its much easier to replace a substation than a big power plant." No, not at all. A power station going down is just reducing the voltage source into the grid. A substation going down is fucking up the actual grid topology. It's like comparing a water tower running dry with a burst water main. Two very different things. And you are also - from your control room analogy - confusing impact to the rest of the grid (minimal) with the loop that's directly impacted. "Even if you couldnt where are the diesel backups that heathrow should have." Heathrow uses the same amount of power as a mid sized city. It's got lots of backups, but: 1. The main ones are huge gas generators that are colocated with the distribution grid because it's a small power station and needs to be connected to a distribution loop. You still need to distribute that kind of power, and the issue is with distribution. 2. The secondary backup seems to have had unspecified issues, possibly just that are busy reconfiguring the grid having lost an entire regional distribution loop. 3. Diesel generators can give you continuity for a while, not full operation for a day. Again this isn't a brown out, or interruption of supply, this is an entire regional distribution loop going out. It's nothing like a power station having an emergency shut down which is fine because all the power stations are on the 400kv grid and that's a small %age of total power. It's more that a major limb of the grid blew up and rerouting that much power without causing issues for the rest of the system is tricky. It took them about 15 hours all in. Similar incidents in the US have taken days to fix, so no idea what Sam thinks he's talking about.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 21 19:26:38 "Heathrow uses the same amount of power as a mid sized city." No it doesnt. you just posted it draws 50MW yearly averaged. Roughly equivalent to a town of 50k people. A backup generator in that class is the size of a large house and uses 3000 gallons of fuel per hour. You could power the airport for an entire day with the fuel in just one long range heavy flight. IE it would have been trivial to run the airport. But you are incompetent. You can see the incompetence on full display with al your stupid excuses. A competent person would have said "that was a stupid mistake... we will fix it and be better next time".
williamthebastard Member	Sat Mar 22 00:47:59 "Who in their right mind would buy a chinese car?" Lol...half of teslas cars are made in China, Pyscho Sam
Seb Member	Sat Mar 22 15:10:45 Ah Sam doesn't understand averages.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 22 15:15:26 Peterborough is a mid sized city, consumes about 300Gwh a year.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 22 15:25:45 I forgot to pick it up earlier, but I love how Sam seems unaware that parts of England used to be covered in 50+ meter oak trees that were felled by neolithic peoples, but apparently a 100m fir tree is too scary for smol bean Americans with industrial equipment.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 22 21:09:34 Its about respect for nature you filthy savage. Go import some more migrants to shit in your streets and leave the national forest management to properly civilized folks.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 22 21:17:45 We dont cut down the few old growth oaks left either. In fact theres one in the runway safety zone at this airport i like to fly into that technically shouldnt be there but its so old and majestic that no one is fool enough to fuck with it. Once a tree reaches a certain size you have to treat it with a certain respect. Or at least you would if you were civilized.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 23 09:25:34 Sam: Don't build your high voltage substations next to 100m teree.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 23 09:36:04 I would never have though Sam was a tree hugger.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Mar 23 09:41:42 This just goes to show how fake and shallow your so called environmentalism is. You never cared about... or understood... global warming. You just wanted to follow the other left wing sheep.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 23 10:52:15 Sam: The idea that you might want to cut down 100m trees within 100m of the perimeter of a high voltage substation (or not build the substation there) is hardly a repudiation of all conservationism.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Mar 24 13:45:18 Ya, its the fact that you didnt understand any of this that shows your faux environmentalism.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 24 17:37:17 Sam is properly having a break down.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 24 17:37:40 Literally run out of things to say.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Mar 25 10:07:03 Ive said everything that needs to be said. 1 Brits are kindof retarded. 2 Heathrow is poorly managed in a dozen ways partly because of 1 3 everyone knows this and i dont need to waste my time repeating myself to mid-iq brit.
Seb Member	Tue Mar 25 11:09:10 In the space of a single thread you've confused a substation with a power station, 275kv substation with an 11kv substation, source/load with transmission, misunderstood average Vs peak power, got confused about power consumption of a mid sized city, and the purpose of backup power. And to top it all off you tried to back out of it by pretending it's acceptable practice to build critical grid infrastructure next to obvious hazards because 100m trees are too difficult to cut down when stone age Brits were doing it.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Mar 25 11:41:17 Everything you just said is made up and entirely disconnected from basic english language comprehension. Theres not a single thing that you claim i said that i actually said. You are either retarded and unable to understand or lieing on purpose because you are so used to lieing in politics. Either way your inability to communicate precludes any meaningful discussion with you.
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