Utopia Talk - Politics - Industrial Desalinization

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Industrial Desalinization

Aeros
Member Tue Jun 23 06:45:59
With the climate starting to change, I do not think relying on just fresh water (especially glacier run off) for the survival of so much farm land and cities is a good idea. In fact, I would have to say its down right suicidal.

Right now, Desalinization technology is cumbersome and inefficient. Instead of blowing so much money on useless projects, we should instead be trying to find a method of efficiently purifying ocean water on a large scale.

habebe
Member Tue Jun 23 06:48:45
Expensive.

hahahaha
Member Tue Jun 23 06:48:52
Shut the fuck up.

hahahaha
Member Tue Jun 23 06:49:05
^directed at the babykiller

habebe
Member Tue Jun 23 06:51:03
http://ncpa.org/pub/ba659

Aeros
Member Tue Jun 23 06:51:34
Expensive but important. Chuckles here hates this idea because it could head off his hoped for collapse of civilization into a Libertarian paradise.

As things stand, much of the Western United States will run out of water within the next 5 decades. The same goes for all that farmland in china that relies on glacier melt from the Himalaya.

Unless an efficient manner of salt water purification is developed, the world could conceivably run out of readily available fresh water.

Hot Rod
Member Tue Jun 23 06:52:05

Use Gatoraid to irrigate the crops instead of water.

Plenty of electrolytes.

habebe
Member Tue Jun 23 06:52:46
" As things stand, much of the Western United States will run out of water within the next 5 decades."

Source?

habebe
Member Tue Jun 23 06:53:10
Thursday, May 14, 2009
by H. Sterling Burnett and Ross Wingo
About 82 percent of Americans receive drinking water via publicly-owned water systems, according to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Many of these municipal and regional systems operate at a loss, meaning users' fees don't cover the cost of treating and delivering the water. Many water authorities are critically behind on maintenance. They lack the capital to update their water purification and wastewater treatment plants, or to secure additional water supplies to meet expected growth in demand.

Experience in other countries shows that privatization could solve these water supply problems.

Problem: Funding Infrastructure. The majority of drinking water supply and treatment facilities and wastewater treatment plants in the United States are owned and operated by the government. According to the EPA, many need to be upgraded or replaced, at an estimated cost of nearly $350 billion over the next two decades.

These projects cannot be funded from monthly municipal water fees, which don't even cover operating expenses. In 2002, the Government Accountability Office found that 29 percent of drinking water and 41 percent of wastewater systems did not raise enough revenue to cover the cost of water distribution, much less the maintenance of capital equipment. Furthermore, it found that nearly 30 percent of all water systems had deferred water infrastructure projects due to a lack of funds. A 2002 EPA report projected a $222 billion shortfall in capital spending for needed drinking and wastewater infrastructure renovation between 2000 and 2019.

Problem: Public Health. The U.S. population is expected to grow to 325 million by 2020. This increase will create new demand for clean water services. Existing water systems must be renovated, and new infrastructure must be built.

In a 2007 congressional hearing, the EPA warned that "numerous treatment facilities that process water and wastewater are in need of upgrading [in order to protect] public health." A National Association of Water Companies (NAWC) survey found that 41 percent of the public water facilities that established public-private partnerships had previously failed to comply with the Federal Safe Drinking Water Act.

Solution: Private Financing. Local governments often contract with private firms to replace infrastructure and provide financing.

For example, a 1993 outbreak of cryptosporidium parasites forced a $90 million overhaul of Milwaukee's water purification system. In response, the city's Metropolitan Sewerage District contracted with United Water to renovate the infrastructure and temporarily operate the wastewater treatment system. United Water's upgrades came in below cost and the city's water supply exceeded all federal, state and local quality standards. As a result, United Water was allowed to take over the system entirely and saved the district about $170 million over 10 years.

Private companies also provided capital financing in Buffalo, N.Y. The city saved $21 million from a public-private agreement. In British Columbia, Canada, private firms partnered with local governments to finance C$5 billion of C$9 billion in water-related construction costs.

Solution: Preserving Public Health. The NAWC also reports that all the noncomplying facilities in its survey complied with the EPA's water quality standards after they partnered with private firms. Also, the AEI-Brookings Joint Center for Regulatory Studies found that the safety records of private water systems are comparable to public systems, and sometimes better.

Abroad, studies have found operating and infrastructure improvements from privatization have improved water quality. For example, a study from the Universidad Torcuato Di Tella in Buenos Aires, Argentina, found that water privatization reduced child mortality by 8 percent.

Solution: Increased Efficiency. According to the Rio Grande Foundation, a research institute in New Mexico, private systems are more efficient than government-run systems:

Operating expenses are 21 percent lower for privately run systems than comparable government-run water systems.
Maintenance costs for privately run water suppliers are on average half that of public water systems.
Private water companies require less than half as many employees as public water systems and spend one-third less of water sales revenue on employee salaries.
The public officials who manage water systems often receive especially large salaries. For example, the superintendent of the Great Neck Water Authority outside New York City earns more money than the governor of New York. The manager of the Jericho, N.Y., water district receives such additional benefits as a car and a residence

Lower Rates. Consumers benefit when private suppliers are allowed to manage water supplies:

Water fees are slightly lower - an average of $14 less per household per year - in counties where water is provided solely by private companies, according to the AEI-Brookings study.
The AEI-Brookings study found ratepayers saved about 10 percent or $33 per year, on average, in counties served by a number of private companies.
The Rio Grande Foundation found even higher savings, an average of 25 percent, on water rates in areas where a number of private companies provide water and sewage treatment.
Solution: Private Water Companies. In contrast to the United States, private companies dominate the market for water delivery and wastewater treatment in Europe. Private water delivery has long existed in France. In 1782, around the time of the first French Revolution, the Perrier brothers' company began providing clean, running tap water in Paris. In London, private water companies operated for more than 200 years until a nationalization movement in 1903. England reprivatized water delivery in 1989.

Today, private companies provide drinking water and wastewater services to more than 70 percent of the people in France, England and Chile. Other countries also depend on private water suppliers to treat and deliver water for large percentages of their populations [see the figure]:

Private companies provide water for residential use for 30 percent to 50 percent of Greeks, Italians and Spaniards.
And 50 percent to 70 percent of the people in the Czech Republic, Argentina, Hong Kong and Malaysia get water from private systems.
Conclusion. In order to ensure safe, sufficient and relatively inexpensive water supplies in the future, the U.S. water delivery system must change. Historically, municipal water authorities have been underfunded and many have been unable to keep water delivery systems operating safely and efficiently. The gap between needed resources and investments could grow due to the recession. Accordingly, the move to private financing and private water suppliers already taking place should be encouraged and expedited.

H. Sterling Burnett is a senior fellow and Ross Wingo is a research assistant with the National Center for Policy Analysis.

Aeros
Member Tue Jun 23 06:55:15
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-103-03/

Halfway down...A 1942 photograph (top) of a reach of the Santa Cruz River south of Tucson, Arizona, shows stands of mesquite and cottonwood trees along the river. A photograph (bottom) of the same site in 1989 shows that the riparian trees have largely disappeared, as a result of lowered ground-water levels. Photos: Robert H. Webb, USGS.

http://ncronline.org/node/664

Water -- why worry? New Jersey is blessed with 40 inches of rain on average each year. Water is everywhere. Yet the stateâ??s magnificent shoreline is receding, its reservoirs are shrinking, salt is leaching into underground water and basements are flooding.

Why worry? Minnesotans count 10,000 lakes and more. But their premier waterways -- Lake Superior and the Mississippi River -- as well as several lesser bodies of water are endangered as a result of pollutants, acid rain and agricultural runoff, threatening the stateâ??s water quality, as well as its fishing and tourism trade. Why worry? Did the rifle and covered wagon win the West or was it the ability of engineers to harness rivers, construct reservoirs and build a reliable water supply? Millions of recent settlers in the arid lands of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming have gambled that the future will be wet enough for them and their progeny.

Every indicator says it will not.

The snowpack in the Rocky and the Sierra Nevada Mountains that supplies most of the fresh water to the regionâ??s rivers is dwindling. Climatologists predict that much of the snowpack will disappear in the second half of this century in the wake of global warming.

The Colorado River, which provides water to 30 million Westerners, has experienced reduced flow this decade compared to the recent past. Two of its principal reservoirs -- Lake Mead and Lake Powell -- stand at 50 percent of capacity.

Lack of rainfall has rendered drought conditions in much of the southeastern United States, in the western Dakotas and parts of Texasâ?? Rio Grande Valley. Los Angeles went five months without measurable rainfall last year and water tables across the nation have been falling due to overuse.

habebe
Member Tue Jun 23 08:27:50
You do realize that where it is needed, this is already being done, it's old news.

Fla. Gets 10% of its drinking water from the ocean as of 03. Cali and parts of Texas have them as well.

What exactly would you propose? the federal gov. come in and blow loads of money to start these all over the place?

Aeros
Member Tue Jun 23 11:20:52
I am thinking something more along the lines of better technology then we have now. Desalinization is very inefficient, so we cannot use ocean water for anything other then immediate municipality drinking water.

If we could instead use ocean water for farming irrigation, we could head off a major food crisis like what will happen in China when the glacial melt runs out, or in the western US when the ground water plays out along with the glacial melt.

Milton Bradley
Member Tue Jun 23 11:23:26
There is no impending major food crisis.

roland
Member Tue Jun 23 11:25:32
"Desalinization is very inefficient, so we cannot use ocean water for anything other then immediate municipality drinking water."

Reverse Osmosis

jergul
Member Tue Jun 23 11:25:46
Aeros
Heating will actually increase the amount for freshwater overall.

Reverse osmoses and thermal desalination are both great but the scale the scale...

One thing to toss out there....hydrogen production.

Deadly expensive in terms of energy use, but if you use thermal waste heat for thermal desalination and recall that hydrogen will revert to water (without salt) once you burn it, then it might be interesting...

Use the right catalysts and you might even be able to take gold out of the seawater too.

Aeros
Member Tue Jun 23 11:32:27
MB, There is no impending food crisis "yet".

We have to keep in mind how much farmland around the world is directly reliant on the current weather patterns and runoff from mountain glaciers. The worlds major Deserts are expanding and exponential rates. Part of this is due to poor water management, and part of it is due to global warming. Egypt used to be the largest grain producer in the Mediterranean world before they dammed the Nile as a glaring example.

China will also lose millions of metric tons of grain production when the mountain run off stops coming due to the winters getting shorter. They will not be able to sustain agriculture during the dry months, and the Gobi and Taklamakan will claim massive amounts of farmland. How then do you propose feeding 1.6 billion people.

Similar problems will occur in the central United States. The Rio Grande no longer flows into the Gulf of Mexico, Las Vegas, Tuscon and Phoenix may have to be abandoned within the next century, and the Imperial Valley in California may suffer the same fate as the farmland in China, even as that country desperately starts buying grain anywhere it can. Food prices will skyrocket.

Aeros
Member Tue Jun 23 11:36:56
Here is a picture of the Rio Grande.

TODAY

http://www...%20Grande%20&%20bridge%201.jpg

jergul
Member Tue Jun 23 11:41:02
Aeros
Rain patterns simply change. There will be more rain as the atmosphere heats up. The drought in Sudan and Ethiopia is over, Sahara is getting a lot more humid. Things like that.

No reason to believe overall food production will decrease and if it does, then we will just have to eat less meat to balance things.

But certainly, food for the US consumer is going to become a lot more expensive. The same is not true for the chinese worker of course.

eds
Member Tue Jun 23 11:48:33
"As things stand, much of the Western United States will run out of water within the next 5 decades. The same goes for all that farmland in china that relies on glacier melt from the Himalaya."

you'll be fine. when your water runs out canada will sell you some.

we'll start selling you fresh water right about the time we stop selling you oil. we're like a drug dealer.. alway skeeping you hooked on something.

habebe
Member Tue Jun 23 12:11:48
Look into how Saudi Arabia does it, something like 3/4 of their waer is ocean water.

RiverofAmericanBlood
Member Tue Jun 23 12:13:02
I'll just have fun living in the Country that has the majority of the worlds fresh water, and laugh as you all die from lack of dehyrdration pills

river of blood
Member Tue Jun 23 12:18:46
"As things stand, much of the Western United States will run out of water within the next 5 decades"

Good. Maybe we shouldn't use so much. Has that thought ever occured to anyone?

yankeessuck123
Member Tue Jun 23 12:21:40
Seems to me that as time progresses desalinization will become more and more widespread. More people, more water being used, and there's so much water out there to be had.

Viral hemorrhagic fever
Member Tue Jun 23 12:22:27
If the water situation is really that bad, why not kill all the Jews and extract the water they hoard in their bodies?

river of blood
Member Tue Jun 23 12:43:26
Humans = fucking parasites

We carelessly use up a resource then figure out some other shit to exploit until we fuck that up too somehow. Just watch, desalinization will end up causing some horrible fucking disaster.

HOer
Member Tue Jun 23 12:49:46
First you tell us to fucking drink more water, now you're calling us parasites for drinking too much? Wtf?

Viral hemorrhagic fever
Member Tue Jun 23 12:55:30
RoB is still practicing for his first stint in office. I think he's almost ready

habebe
Member Tue Jun 23 13:09:04
" Seems to me that as time progresses desalinization will become more and more widespread. More people, more water being used, and there's so much water out there to be had."

You are right, and actually it is what is already happening.

rOb, Last I checked Americans are actually using water much more efficiently than the past.

On a side note many new alternatively fueled cars use up a lot of water.

river of blood
Member Tue Jun 23 13:20:32
"First you tell us to fucking drink more water, now you're calling us parasites for drinking too much?"

People drinking water is not fucking causing water shortages.

show deleted posts

Aeros Member	Tue Jun 23 06:45:59 With the climate starting to change, I do not think relying on just fresh water (especially glacier run off) for the survival of so much farm land and cities is a good idea. In fact, I would have to say its down right suicidal. Right now, Desalinization technology is cumbersome and inefficient. Instead of blowing so much money on useless projects, we should instead be trying to find a method of efficiently purifying ocean water on a large scale.
habebe Member	Tue Jun 23 06:48:45 Expensive.
hahahaha Member	Tue Jun 23 06:48:52 Shut the fuck up.
hahahaha Member	Tue Jun 23 06:49:05 ^directed at the babykiller
habebe Member	Tue Jun 23 06:51:03 http://ncpa.org/pub/ba659
Aeros Member	Tue Jun 23 06:51:34 Expensive but important. Chuckles here hates this idea because it could head off his hoped for collapse of civilization into a Libertarian paradise. As things stand, much of the Western United States will run out of water within the next 5 decades. The same goes for all that farmland in china that relies on glacier melt from the Himalaya. Unless an efficient manner of salt water purification is developed, the world could conceivably run out of readily available fresh water.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Jun 23 06:52:05 Use Gatoraid to irrigate the crops instead of water. Plenty of electrolytes.
habebe Member	Tue Jun 23 06:52:46 " As things stand, much of the Western United States will run out of water within the next 5 decades." Source?
habebe Member	Tue Jun 23 06:53:10 Thursday, May 14, 2009 by H. Sterling Burnett and Ross Wingo About 82 percent of Americans receive drinking water via publicly-owned water systems, according to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Many of these municipal and regional systems operate at a loss, meaning users' fees don't cover the cost of treating and delivering the water. Many water authorities are critically behind on maintenance. They lack the capital to update their water purification and wastewater treatment plants, or to secure additional water supplies to meet expected growth in demand. Experience in other countries shows that privatization could solve these water supply problems. Problem: Funding Infrastructure. The majority of drinking water supply and treatment facilities and wastewater treatment plants in the United States are owned and operated by the government. According to the EPA, many need to be upgraded or replaced, at an estimated cost of nearly $350 billion over the next two decades. These projects cannot be funded from monthly municipal water fees, which don't even cover operating expenses. In 2002, the Government Accountability Office found that 29 percent of drinking water and 41 percent of wastewater systems did not raise enough revenue to cover the cost of water distribution, much less the maintenance of capital equipment. Furthermore, it found that nearly 30 percent of all water systems had deferred water infrastructure projects due to a lack of funds. A 2002 EPA report projected a $222 billion shortfall in capital spending for needed drinking and wastewater infrastructure renovation between 2000 and 2019. Problem: Public Health. The U.S. population is expected to grow to 325 million by 2020. This increase will create new demand for clean water services. Existing water systems must be renovated, and new infrastructure must be built. In a 2007 congressional hearing, the EPA warned that "numerous treatment facilities that process water and wastewater are in need of upgrading [in order to protect] public health." A National Association of Water Companies (NAWC) survey found that 41 percent of the public water facilities that established public-private partnerships had previously failed to comply with the Federal Safe Drinking Water Act. Solution: Private Financing. Local governments often contract with private firms to replace infrastructure and provide financing. For example, a 1993 outbreak of cryptosporidium parasites forced a $90 million overhaul of Milwaukee's water purification system. In response, the city's Metropolitan Sewerage District contracted with United Water to renovate the infrastructure and temporarily operate the wastewater treatment system. United Water's upgrades came in below cost and the city's water supply exceeded all federal, state and local quality standards. As a result, United Water was allowed to take over the system entirely and saved the district about $170 million over 10 years. Private companies also provided capital financing in Buffalo, N.Y. The city saved $21 million from a public-private agreement. In British Columbia, Canada, private firms partnered with local governments to finance C$5 billion of C$9 billion in water-related construction costs. Solution: Preserving Public Health. The NAWC also reports that all the noncomplying facilities in its survey complied with the EPA's water quality standards after they partnered with private firms. Also, the AEI-Brookings Joint Center for Regulatory Studies found that the safety records of private water systems are comparable to public systems, and sometimes better. Abroad, studies have found operating and infrastructure improvements from privatization have improved water quality. For example, a study from the Universidad Torcuato Di Tella in Buenos Aires, Argentina, found that water privatization reduced child mortality by 8 percent. Solution: Increased Efficiency. According to the Rio Grande Foundation, a research institute in New Mexico, private systems are more efficient than government-run systems: Operating expenses are 21 percent lower for privately run systems than comparable government-run water systems. Maintenance costs for privately run water suppliers are on average half that of public water systems. Private water companies require less than half as many employees as public water systems and spend one-third less of water sales revenue on employee salaries. The public officials who manage water systems often receive especially large salaries. For example, the superintendent of the Great Neck Water Authority outside New York City earns more money than the governor of New York. The manager of the Jericho, N.Y., water district receives such additional benefits as a car and a residence Lower Rates. Consumers benefit when private suppliers are allowed to manage water supplies: Water fees are slightly lower - an average of $14 less per household per year - in counties where water is provided solely by private companies, according to the AEI-Brookings study. The AEI-Brookings study found ratepayers saved about 10 percent or $33 per year, on average, in counties served by a number of private companies. The Rio Grande Foundation found even higher savings, an average of 25 percent, on water rates in areas where a number of private companies provide water and sewage treatment. Solution: Private Water Companies. In contrast to the United States, private companies dominate the market for water delivery and wastewater treatment in Europe. Private water delivery has long existed in France. In 1782, around the time of the first French Revolution, the Perrier brothers' company began providing clean, running tap water in Paris. In London, private water companies operated for more than 200 years until a nationalization movement in 1903. England reprivatized water delivery in 1989. Today, private companies provide drinking water and wastewater services to more than 70 percent of the people in France, England and Chile. Other countries also depend on private water suppliers to treat and deliver water for large percentages of their populations [see the figure]: Private companies provide water for residential use for 30 percent to 50 percent of Greeks, Italians and Spaniards. And 50 percent to 70 percent of the people in the Czech Republic, Argentina, Hong Kong and Malaysia get water from private systems. Conclusion. In order to ensure safe, sufficient and relatively inexpensive water supplies in the future, the U.S. water delivery system must change. Historically, municipal water authorities have been underfunded and many have been unable to keep water delivery systems operating safely and efficiently. The gap between needed resources and investments could grow due to the recession. Accordingly, the move to private financing and private water suppliers already taking place should be encouraged and expedited. H. Sterling Burnett is a senior fellow and Ross Wingo is a research assistant with the National Center for Policy Analysis.
Aeros Member	Tue Jun 23 06:55:15 http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-103-03/ Halfway down...A 1942 photograph (top) of a reach of the Santa Cruz River south of Tucson, Arizona, shows stands of mesquite and cottonwood trees along the river. A photograph (bottom) of the same site in 1989 shows that the riparian trees have largely disappeared, as a result of lowered ground-water levels. Photos: Robert H. Webb, USGS. http://ncronline.org/node/664 Water -- why worry? New Jersey is blessed with 40 inches of rain on average each year. Water is everywhere. Yet the stateâ??s magnificent shoreline is receding, its reservoirs are shrinking, salt is leaching into underground water and basements are flooding. Why worry? Minnesotans count 10,000 lakes and more. But their premier waterways -- Lake Superior and the Mississippi River -- as well as several lesser bodies of water are endangered as a result of pollutants, acid rain and agricultural runoff, threatening the stateâ??s water quality, as well as its fishing and tourism trade. Why worry? Did the rifle and covered wagon win the West or was it the ability of engineers to harness rivers, construct reservoirs and build a reliable water supply? Millions of recent settlers in the arid lands of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming have gambled that the future will be wet enough for them and their progeny. Every indicator says it will not. The snowpack in the Rocky and the Sierra Nevada Mountains that supplies most of the fresh water to the regionâ??s rivers is dwindling. Climatologists predict that much of the snowpack will disappear in the second half of this century in the wake of global warming. The Colorado River, which provides water to 30 million Westerners, has experienced reduced flow this decade compared to the recent past. Two of its principal reservoirs -- Lake Mead and Lake Powell -- stand at 50 percent of capacity. Lack of rainfall has rendered drought conditions in much of the southeastern United States, in the western Dakotas and parts of Texasâ?? Rio Grande Valley. Los Angeles went five months without measurable rainfall last year and water tables across the nation have been falling due to overuse.
habebe Member	Tue Jun 23 08:27:50 You do realize that where it is needed, this is already being done, it's old news. Fla. Gets 10% of its drinking water from the ocean as of 03. Cali and parts of Texas have them as well. What exactly would you propose? the federal gov. come in and blow loads of money to start these all over the place?
Aeros Member	Tue Jun 23 11:20:52 I am thinking something more along the lines of better technology then we have now. Desalinization is very inefficient, so we cannot use ocean water for anything other then immediate municipality drinking water. If we could instead use ocean water for farming irrigation, we could head off a major food crisis like what will happen in China when the glacial melt runs out, or in the western US when the ground water plays out along with the glacial melt.
Milton Bradley Member	Tue Jun 23 11:23:26 There is no impending major food crisis.
roland Member	Tue Jun 23 11:25:32 "Desalinization is very inefficient, so we cannot use ocean water for anything other then immediate municipality drinking water." Reverse Osmosis
jergul Member	Tue Jun 23 11:25:46 Aeros Heating will actually increase the amount for freshwater overall. Reverse osmoses and thermal desalination are both great but the scale the scale... One thing to toss out there....hydrogen production. Deadly expensive in terms of energy use, but if you use thermal waste heat for thermal desalination and recall that hydrogen will revert to water (without salt) once you burn it, then it might be interesting... Use the right catalysts and you might even be able to take gold out of the seawater too.
Aeros Member	Tue Jun 23 11:32:27 MB, There is no impending food crisis "yet". We have to keep in mind how much farmland around the world is directly reliant on the current weather patterns and runoff from mountain glaciers. The worlds major Deserts are expanding and exponential rates. Part of this is due to poor water management, and part of it is due to global warming. Egypt used to be the largest grain producer in the Mediterranean world before they dammed the Nile as a glaring example. China will also lose millions of metric tons of grain production when the mountain run off stops coming due to the winters getting shorter. They will not be able to sustain agriculture during the dry months, and the Gobi and Taklamakan will claim massive amounts of farmland. How then do you propose feeding 1.6 billion people. Similar problems will occur in the central United States. The Rio Grande no longer flows into the Gulf of Mexico, Las Vegas, Tuscon and Phoenix may have to be abandoned within the next century, and the Imperial Valley in California may suffer the same fate as the farmland in China, even as that country desperately starts buying grain anywhere it can. Food prices will skyrocket.
Aeros Member	Tue Jun 23 11:36:56 Here is a picture of the Rio Grande. TODAY http://www...%20Grande%20&%20bridge%201.jpg
jergul Member	Tue Jun 23 11:41:02 Aeros Rain patterns simply change. There will be more rain as the atmosphere heats up. The drought in Sudan and Ethiopia is over, Sahara is getting a lot more humid. Things like that. No reason to believe overall food production will decrease and if it does, then we will just have to eat less meat to balance things. But certainly, food for the US consumer is going to become a lot more expensive. The same is not true for the chinese worker of course.
eds Member	Tue Jun 23 11:48:33 "As things stand, much of the Western United States will run out of water within the next 5 decades. The same goes for all that farmland in china that relies on glacier melt from the Himalaya." you'll be fine. when your water runs out canada will sell you some. we'll start selling you fresh water right about the time we stop selling you oil. we're like a drug dealer.. alway skeeping you hooked on something.
habebe Member	Tue Jun 23 12:11:48 Look into how Saudi Arabia does it, something like 3/4 of their waer is ocean water.
RiverofAmericanBlood Member	Tue Jun 23 12:13:02 I'll just have fun living in the Country that has the majority of the worlds fresh water, and laugh as you all die from lack of dehyrdration pills
river of blood Member	Tue Jun 23 12:18:46 "As things stand, much of the Western United States will run out of water within the next 5 decades" Good. Maybe we shouldn't use so much. Has that thought ever occured to anyone?
yankeessuck123 Member	Tue Jun 23 12:21:40 Seems to me that as time progresses desalinization will become more and more widespread. More people, more water being used, and there's so much water out there to be had.
Viral hemorrhagic fever Member	Tue Jun 23 12:22:27 If the water situation is really that bad, why not kill all the Jews and extract the water they hoard in their bodies?
river of blood Member	Tue Jun 23 12:43:26 Humans = fucking parasites We carelessly use up a resource then figure out some other shit to exploit until we fuck that up too somehow. Just watch, desalinization will end up causing some horrible fucking disaster.
HOer Member	Tue Jun 23 12:49:46 First you tell us to fucking drink more water, now you're calling us parasites for drinking too much? Wtf?
Viral hemorrhagic fever Member	Tue Jun 23 12:55:30 RoB is still practicing for his first stint in office. I think he's almost ready
habebe Member	Tue Jun 23 13:09:04 " Seems to me that as time progresses desalinization will become more and more widespread. More people, more water being used, and there's so much water out there to be had." You are right, and actually it is what is already happening. rOb, Last I checked Americans are actually using water much more efficiently than the past. On a side note many new alternatively fueled cars use up a lot of water.
river of blood Member	Tue Jun 23 13:20:32 "First you tell us to fucking drink more water, now you're calling us parasites for drinking too much?" People drinking water is not fucking causing water shortages.
	show deleted posts

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