Utopia Talk / Politics / "The case against Barack Obama"

Eikeys Ghost Sports Mod	Sun Sep 07 22:18:18 'The unlikely rise and unexamined agenda of the media's favorite candidate' by David Freddoso. Bought it today. I look forward to reading it. Hadn't heard about it or anything, just say it advertised at Border's. I also bought 'The Spanish Inquisition' by someone (it's not near enough to look it up) at the Ann Arbor book fair today. That should also be an interesting read. The Book Fair today did make me realize how stupid I really am, and how many books I haven't read/heard of. Now looking back it kinda makes me wish I would have read them in school when they were assigned, rather than just skate by doing the minimal work/scanning. "The true wise man knows he knows nothing." ~ Socrates but oh well...
Chen Member	Sun Sep 07 22:22:20 It's too bad not a single Obama fan would buy that book to at least get the other side.
roland Member	Sun Sep 07 22:24:46 How many of the Obamophobes would get the other side of the story?
Poison Member	Sun Sep 07 22:44:23 Another book by a desperate right-wing wack to further spread smears and lies to the public.
habebe Member	Sun Sep 07 23:00:04 "How many of the Obamophobes would get the other side of the story? " I've read communists manifesto, it's been a while (back in HS) and I still prefer Milton Friedman
Eikeys Ghost Sports Mod	Sun Sep 07 23:05:10 Chen proven correct. I like the quote from the back cover. From a Nov 8 2004 press confrence: REPORTER: Why have you ruled that out, running nationally? BARACK OBAMA: You know, I am a believer in knowing what you're doing when you apply for a job. And I think that if I were to seriously consider running on a national ticket, I would essentially have to start now, before having served a day in the Senate. Now, there are some people who might be comfortable doing that, but I'm not one of those people. What a fucking liar. As for the 'right-wing wack to further spread smears and lies to the public' ... "It took only a couple of years covering Washington and congressional politics for me to learn a sad, simple fact: A disappointingly small number of those who run for office from either party are true reformers. The ones who are reformers usually lose. Obama has crafted himself an image as one of those rare reformers. This is what prompted me to begin work on this book. As it became clear that he was going to win the Democratic Nomination for president, it seemed irresponsible to stand by as so many were offering admiration, piety, and even worship to - of all things- a politician. Because the idea of Barack Obama as a reformer is a great lie."
roland Member	Sun Sep 07 23:08:57 "I've read communists manifesto, it's been a while (back in HS) and I still prefer Milton Friedman" 8/10 Lol, like Obama is a communist.
Poison Member	Sun Sep 07 23:10:26 And you hold his *OPINION* to be the supreme truth to the universe? This book is mostly an OPINION from a right-wing wacko on a liberal (and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out how that'll turn out) backed up by poor researched "facts" and overblown assumption.
Eikeys Ghost Sports Mod	Sun Sep 07 23:16:42 "This book is mostly an OPINION from a right-wing wacko on a liberal (and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out how that'll turn out) backed up by poor researched "facts" and overblown assumption. " Oh you've read it? Or are you just pulling more of your boyfriends jizz out of your ass?
Poison Member	Sun Sep 07 23:18:15 i read the reviews from readers as well as professional critics. another worthless shit.
roland Member	Sun Sep 07 23:19:37 "What a fucking liar." There are small lies and there are big lies. I am not even sure that is a lie to start with.
habebe Member	Sun Sep 07 23:22:12 Roland, Well I was talking in general of reading the side of your political opponets...but obama is rather communist, maybe not 100% with every detail (as with any beleif it varies between beleivers a bit) but I'm not the first person to say this, John Voigt and Alan keyes have, keyes statment was actually that obabma was a "Hardcore marxist" but we could chalk that up to black on black racism, right?
Chen Member	Sun Sep 07 23:23:33 I'm sure it's not just opinion. Any good debater knows that one has to use facts to support their conclusions. If you are really willing to support someone; you should do your duty as an informed citizen to get the other side. Just listening to one side makes you a brainwashed tool.
Chen Member	Sun Sep 07 23:24:06 ^directed at poison
Y2A Member	Sun Sep 07 23:24:25 keynes is a nut. if you take anything that idiot says seriously then you're also a nut.
Y2A Member	Sun Sep 07 23:24:49 *keyes
habebe Member	Sun Sep 07 23:26:06 "keynes is a nut. if you take anything that idiot says seriously then you're also a nut. " Why is he a "nut"? just curious on your reasoning
Eikeys Ghost Sports Mod	Sun Sep 07 23:28:27 "i read the reviews from readers as well as professional critics. another worthless shit. " Funny - I read the same things about the books Obama wrote. I suppose they are right too? idiot.
Poison Member	Sun Sep 07 23:31:30 "Why is he a "nut"? just curious on your reasoning" Keyes thinks gay marriage leads to inbreeding. That alone makes him the most illogical fuktard in politics.
roland Member	Sun Sep 07 23:33:00 "Roland, Well I was talking in general of reading the side of your political opponets" Huh? "but obama is rather communist, maybe not 100% with every detail..." Has he advocate taking everyone's property and divide it amongst everyone? I don't think any of the candidates in the history of both parties ever advocating that. "but we could chalk that up to black on black racism, right?" No, we could get some fact on his policy on the table and discuss it on its merit rather than submitting to some political hack's opinion and take it as gospel.
Y2A Member	Sun Sep 07 23:36:36 the guy ran for the Constitution Party nomination. nuff said
habebe Member	Sun Sep 07 23:40:44 "Has he advocate taking everyone's property and divide it amongst everyone? I don't think any of the candidates in the history of both parties ever advocating that. " He has supported rather drastic re-distrubution of wealth, not as drastic as that "No, we could get some fact on his policy on the table and discuss it on its merit rather than submitting to some political hack's opinion and take it as gospel. " Well, now I've had several threads on this, what would you call him? a socialist? what persay is your arguement? also earlier you had said "How many of the Obamophobes would get the other side of the story? " Implying that both sides rarley read up outside their political beleifs
Poison Member	Sun Sep 07 23:44:15 "Well, now I've had several threads on this, what would you call him? a socialist? what persay is your arguement? " How about a Democrat?
roland Member	Sun Sep 07 23:53:01 "He has supported rather drastic re-distribution of wealth, not as drastic as that " You are exaggerating with this word "drastic". What do you really mean? Is the status quo drastic? "Well, now I've had several threads on this, what would you call him? a socialist? what persay is your argument?" Would a socialist have a policy like that? * Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama believes that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue. * Reverse Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: Obama will protect tax cuts for poor and middle class families, but he will reverse most of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest taxpayers. * Cut Pork Barrel Spending: Obama introduced and passed bipartisan legislation that would require more disclosure and transparency for special-interest earmarks. Obama believes that spending that cannot withstand public scrutiny cannot be justified. Obama will slash earmarks to no greater than year 2001 levels and ensure all spending decisions are open to the public. * Make Government Spending More Accountable and Efficient: Obama will ensure that federal contracts over $25,000 are competitively bid. Obama will also increase the efficiency of government programs through better use of technology, stronger management that demands accountability and by leveraging the government's high-volume purchasing power to get lower prices. * End Wasteful Government Spending: Obama will stop funding wasteful, obsolete federal government programs that make no financial sense. Obama has called for an end to subsidies for oil and gas companies that are enjoying record profits, as well as the elimination of subsidies to the private student loan industry which has repeatedly used unethical business practices. Obama will also tackle wasteful spending in the Medicare program.
Eikeys Ghost Sports Mod	Mon Sep 08 00:02:01 "Cut Pork Barrel Spending: Obama introduced and passed bipartisan legislation that would require more disclosure and transparency for special-interest earmarks." incorrect, obama never introduced and passed any legislation. "Obama will also tackle wasteful spending in the Medicare program. " HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA cut it any more and doctors will be forced to quit.
habebe Member	Mon Sep 08 00:05:14 "You are exaggerating with this word "drastic". What do you really mean? Is the status quo drastic? " I don't consider it an exageration, he has again and again wanted to raise taxes on the wealthy, "bush's tax cuts for the rich" have given us record revenues, so why would he want to repeal them and raise taxes? And to anwser your next question...this one does...alot "Reverse Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: Obama will protect tax cuts for poor and middle class families, but he will reverse most of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest taxpayers. " In other words he is raising taxes, even though as I said before, we now are getting recod high tax-revenues from those tax cuts, he would also raise the taxes on middle-class http://ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=16972 Recently, Sen. Barack Obama declared that he wants to "reform our tax code so that it rewards work and not just wealth." Unfortunately, his proposal would actually raise marginal tax rates for many middle-income taxpayers, a bad move for anyone seeking to promote economic growth, says the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). Obama's tax breaks will undermine economic incentives in two ways. First, whether or not you get those breaks will depend on your income. In Washington, taking away tax breaks as families work harder to make more money is called a "phase-out." Economists have a different name for it -- we call it a tax. Reducing a person\'s tax credit as his income goes up also reduces his incentive to earn more income. Second, Obama would make some credits refundable for families with credits bigger than their tax liability, which would also have the nefarious effect of raising marginal tax rates: For example, consider a worker in the 10 percent bracket with $1,000 of tax liability before credits who claims $1,200 in credits. The tax impact of earning an extra $100 depends on whether the credit is refundable. If it\'s not refundable, there\'s no tax penalty on earning the extra $100 because the worker\'s tax liability stays at zero. But if the credit is refundable, earning the extra money pushes the tax up from negative $200 to negative $190 -- that\'s a 10 percent penalty on earning income. To be sure, Obama's proposals will not tarnish an otherwise pristine tax code, but because phase-outs are so hard to decipher, many Americans may ignore them when making their work and saving decisions. Creating a more confusing tax code certainly does not make for good government, says AEI. Source: Alex Brill and Alan D. Viard, "The Folly of Obama's Tax Plan," The American, August 8, 2008.
habebe Member	Mon Sep 08 00:10:04 His healthcare plan would also much more drastically tax us "Taxing Labor. The Obama plan would impose a "pay-or-play" mandate on all employers ? taxing those who do not provide health insurance for their employees. Following Commonwealth, one can assume this would be an additional tax of 7 percent on payrolls — up to $1.25 per hour per employee — imposed on employers who fail to pay at least 75 percent of their employees' premiums for a minimum benefit package. " That sounds rather socialist/communist to me http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba628/
habebe Member	Mon Sep 08 00:11:56 That is just an excerpt, more can found by following the link
roland Member	Mon Sep 08 00:12:33 "incorrect, obama never introduced and passed any legislation. " Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 * Introduced in the United States Senate as S. 2590 by Tom Coburn and Barack Obama on April 6, 2006 * Passed the Senate on September 7, 2006 (Unanimously approved) * Passed the House on September 13, 2006 (Passed by voice vote) * Signed into law by President Bush on September 26, 2006
Hot Rod Moderator	Mon Sep 08 00:32:23 And John McCain voted for it.
Hellfire Member	Mon Sep 08 00:34:36 a vote John McCain was actually there for? Wow, amazing
earthpig44224 Member	Sun Feb 05 00:54:00 less unit about earth differ enough slow .
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