Utopia Talk / Politics / Who here is aginst drug legalization?

habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 01:45:03 I Highly doubt there are many FOR making drugs illegal, but just curious Personally I see drugs doing more damage to our society as illegal than treating pot like alcohol (state stores, and licensed pot bars) and treating heavier narcotics like prescriptions, regulated by doctors, but is anyone here opposed to that, and if so why?
cardinal JAC Member	Thu Sep 11 01:50:24 if it grows naturally, it should not be illegal
juztav Member	Thu Sep 11 01:53:12 Im all for decriminalisation of possession for personal use, but I dont support full legalisation, and commercialisation of the drug supply. ie: grow your own, smoke your own OK factories churning out packs of wacky tobaccy and selling them over the counter at your local cafe, I dont support. also, if some university chemistry student wips up a batch of LSD, or maybe even MDA, then gets together with a group of buddies to trip the light fantastic, that should also be legal. Im currently working on growing some Mescaline producing cactus myself.
habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 01:55:14 Juztav, Have you ever read PIHKAL or TIHKAL? both by Alexander Shulgin What is wrong with commercialization? similar to that in say the Netherlands
Rugian Member	Thu Sep 11 02:02:13 I'm completely against any legalization. I know a majority of people here are for it, but given the most UPers are utter dumbasses, I think that only works in my favor.
jergul Member	Thu Sep 11 02:11:16 habebe Drugs are actually controlled, not illegal. My personal view is that this is correct and should be expanded to include cigarettes. What I do believe is that distribution restrictions should be relaxed and lesser drugs with addictive qualities should be made available by prescription as part of a treatment program for addiction (by all means an open program with no cut off deadlines). Hard drugs should be treated in the same way through the substitutes like Methadone. Chronic addiction is often a medical issue - in the case of drugs and cigarettes (amazing that we do not consider that a drug) it should be treated as a medical problem.
habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 02:19:33 Jergul, Well, many drugs are controlled, some are illegal, Heroin for Ie. is illegal any shape or form in the US, while Methamphetamine is a controlled substance Financials loss is one of the lesser evils in my arguement for the legalization of ALL narcotics Some may argue that the feds only spend about 7-8 billion dollars a year on the "drug war" but forget that the traffick of illegal narcotics causes much more harm than the drugs themselves could pose, and if regulated by doctors not the cops think of all the lives you would save from "tainted narcotics" to overdoses to rivals in the trafficking bussines killing eachother and innocent bystanders Not to mention these profits often find their way into the hands of leftist guerillas and terrorists...now how much will that cost in lives and cash?
habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 02:20:18 I also beleive that many of the harsh side effects of narcotics can be avoided if under the guidance of a licensed physician
Sam Adams Member	Thu Sep 11 02:20:47 lets give the government more control over our lives. dumbasses
habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 02:29:27 I persoanlly can attest that ciggarettes are similar to drugs, while in a work release detention center I was making 4-5 times the amount you and I would pay for ciggarettes, they initially sold for about 25 cents each, then they decided that there was no smoking allowed on the premises, that price quickly shot up to 2-3 dollars a smoke, and quickly shot down and leveled out to $1 each, but if you pay 40-50 dollars for a carton, you can make alot of money, and quick, we were allowed to go on shopping trips 1-2 times a month, so several us got to gether, and would gather up money, buy the cartons, and then stash them under the newspaper slot at the end of the driveway (at the bus stop for workers) to avoid the pat-down when we returned, then someone else would go and "buy a newspaper" concealing the carton(s) (much easier in the winter/fall months) then profits would vary, paying the people who took the risks a larger inital cut, then it went from there, I made more money selling ciggarettes than I did at my job!
habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 02:36:35 Oh and on weekends the price jumped to 1.50-2.00 as no shopping trips were allowed on the weekends, the punishment if I got caught? max 30 days back in a real jail cell, but it was the same for distr. as it was use, so they filled up quickly and people got released early I spent 9 days out of a two week sentence back in there for claiming I was diabetic in order to get the baggeed lunches which would also sell for $5 ea. (sold seperatley) Then I would also get free food for smuggling it from the snack room/cafeteria (I worked there temporarily) one night we had a late lockdown, and NO-ONE was allowed in the hallways, somehow I managed to comeback with all sorts of shit from the snack room On the plus side, this bought me extra protection, someone who can get you things that you can't in jail, is someone you protect inside our "clique" we all messed with eachother (pranks and whatnot, it gets boring) but no one outside the clique would touch me
habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 02:40:09 Unfortanatley, thoguh two freinds (my barber and his brother) I got free cuts for keeping a look out, and paid, are on trial for trip[le homicide http://www...yn/articlePrint.cfm?id=1587958 Shit! this is a new article, I havn't even read it yet
juztav Member	Thu Sep 11 02:43:23 "What is wrong with commercialization? similar to that in say the Netherlands" that could probably work in some liberal societies, but I certainly dont see how it would work in a country like australia. Im not totaly opposed to the idea, I just see too many pitfalls, and cons against it.
habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 02:43:55 Hmm, it's alot shorter than the origianl two stories, bt I have no idead who sanchez (the shooter) is, it's also now down to only a double homicide, as the chick was POSSIBLY pregnant, apparently that rumor was false
habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 02:55:20 Juz, Well, to be honest I know very little about Australia politics and society, but I do know a great deal about the US
Nekran Member	Thu Sep 11 04:15:53 "I persoanlly can attest that ciggarettes are similar to drugs" They are in fact hard-drugs. On a related note US teens relatively smoke more pot than dutch ones (41% to 28%)... so yeah criminalization doesn't work.
habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 04:35:01 nEKRAM, I know atleast for me and my friends in HS, it was generally alot harder to get large quantities of booze than pot, so we smoked more, a dealer doesn't require ID, now many of us had older siblings and whatnot, so we could get booze, but it was much rarer for us to hang out and drink than smoke
Nekran Member	Thu Sep 11 04:42:05 Here in Belgium it's generally rather easy to access both. Holland is right nextdoor and our legal booze-age is 16, but nobody really cares about it anyways. Especially not nightshops, where a kindergartener could walk out with a bottle of wodka if he can pay for it. Incidentally I think it's probably better for HS kids to be smoking pot than to be boozing.
habebe Member	Thu Sep 11 04:47:46 Oh I agree, to be honest I drank more in HS though than I do now, except that now I drink more frequently, but I drink less usually 2-3 beers every couple of days, I also drink beer that I actually enjoy now as well, occasionally a bottle of Gewurtz (white wine) but that is maybe twice a year, I would have smoked today but it's dry down here and I know few people Actually though for HS students it may be moreso important to have them rather smoke than drink, but even on the whole I'd rather deal with a smoker than a drinker, how many people get stoned and start a fight? or smack up a car while high
patom Member	Thu Sep 11 05:55:26 Legalize it all. I'll repeat my only rule. Anyone caught supplying drugs not prescribed by a physician, to anyone under the age of 21, in any way shape or form, be sent to prison for 30 years, no parole, no good time, no early release program, no nothing, 30 years! Stop the rampant trend in our schools that are turning our children into drug dependant zombies. If you can leave kids alone long enough without them getting into drugs, the odds are much greater they won't get into them. If, AFTER the age of 21, someone makes the decision to experiment with what ever drug they wish, all they need do is sign a contract with their local licensed suplier, who will give them controlled amounts and clean methods of ingesting their drug of choice. They will of course have to report their clients to their employers in order for their employer to make the decision, if they wish to have a drug user operating their equipment, or performing other delicate functions.
Nekran Member	Thu Sep 11 06:45:42 "They will of course have to report their clients to their employers in order for their employer to make the decision, if they wish to have a drug user operating their equipment, or performing other delicate functions." They all do now.
Master Bates Member	Thu Sep 11 06:55:22 habebe, your site gave me a trojan warning and my browser won't let me open it...
Master Bates Member	Thu Sep 11 06:56:32 For once, I think Patom has a bad idea.
Asgard Member	Thu Sep 11 06:59:19 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3835263878054483779
MrBBonz Member	Thu Sep 11 07:45:22 Make it legal for 21 and up, but if you get caught dui, or giving to a minor, you have to face very very severe punishments. Personal liberty is great and all, until it bothers other people.
river of blood Member	Thu Sep 11 07:53:19 I am completely against the legalization of drugs. Drugs need to be decriminalized not LEGALIZED. If they are legalized then we are acknowledging that our right to take them is a creation of law i.e. a right we receive from government. My right to put whatever I want to into my own body comes from the fact that my body belongs to ME and no one else, not from the benevolence of government.
yankeessuck123 Member	Thu Sep 11 11:18:31 I am strongly in favor of drugs being legal.
jergul Member	Thu Sep 11 11:23:40 hahabe "In the United States, heroin is a schedule I drug according to the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, making it illegal to possess without a DEA license. Possession of more than 100 grams of heroin or a mixture containing heroin is punishable with a minimum mandatory sentence of 5 years of imprisonment in a federal prison." Same as any controlled substance.
oddity Member	Thu Sep 11 11:29:26 against
yankeessuck123 Member	Thu Sep 11 11:30:57 Explain.
Standard of Reason Member	Thu Sep 11 11:33:18 Restricting drugs for personal use is a misuse of government authority. What you do is your business. That is, until it infringes upon others. Driving under the influence of any drug that would impair one's ability to do so safely should be illegal. Any drug that at least moderately impairs one's abilities to make decisions should be controlled, with varying degrees of severity and strictness. The bottom line is: when there is the potential to do harm, there must be control. People are capable of anything under the influence of certain drugs--we need to be extremely careful about making them legal (or decriminalized or whatever, I don't really care.)
oddity Member	Thu Sep 11 11:57:12 Too many people are prone to addiction who would become irresponsible drains on responsible individuals. There are far too many of them in the world currently.
patom Member	Thu Sep 11 11:58:58 S of R, one of the drugs that has the worst influence on people is alcahol. It is legal in most states.
Dakyron Member	Thu Sep 11 12:02:42 I am strongly against making drugs legal.
patom Member	Thu Sep 11 13:43:48 oddity, if they were left alone until they reached 21, the numbers would come down dratiacally.
oddity Member	Thu Sep 11 13:57:30 Anything can be said patom now provide a guarantee of proof.
Standard of Reason Member	Thu Sep 11 14:48:58 "S of R, one of the drugs that has the worst influence on people is alcahol. It is legal in most states." Yes it is, and we see how many people die from alcohol related deaths in driving accidents etc. If it can't be regulated well enough, and people can't be responsible with it, then safety trumps liberty.
yankeessuck123 Member	Thu Sep 11 15:58:24 Prohibition failed. Hard. Banning other drugs is failing hard as well.
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