Utopia Talk - Politics - Vp debate:I told you so

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Vp debate:I told you so

habebe
Member Thu Oct 02 23:45:20
All Palin had to do is hold her own to win the debate, and she did

I'd even say on an even playing ground she slighlty won the debate, she did an excellent job at poining out the seperation of obama and Biden several times, (Biden claimed obama wasn't ready for the whitehouse, and that his vote against funding the troops was soley "political") Biden also attempted to link McCain/Palin to Bush, it failed miserably

What made it an overwhelming Palin victory though was that people expected less from her, and more from Biden, which I said time and time again

I told you so!!! will this sway dem votes? no, will this take away the fear in independants that she is a bumbling moron? yes

yankeessuck123
Member Thu Oct 02 23:48:46
Your problem here: You are acting like it's a generally accepted conclusion that Palin won. The poll I saw had Biden with 51% and Palin with 36%. Sounds like Biden won.

Nimatzo
Member Thu Oct 02 23:50:30
You have to be kidding. She looked like a news reporter reading off a tele prompter. There was no freaking debate, she didn't answer one question, she was looking down at her notes all the time.
What are you talking about "she won", it was never even a contest. I feel sorry for you having so inept politicians and such a worthless political system that this constitutes a victory.

habebe
Member Thu Oct 02 23:51:04
On top of all that, she took a play directly from the Nixon playbook with the "straight up" talk "dawgonnit", yes she may have added her twist to it with the lingo,but it's Nixonian all the way, love him or hate him, the man discovered how to win a campaign in the US, and it's "down to earth" talk to "joe six-pack"

roland
Member Thu Oct 02 23:51:33
Mission accomplished!!!!

habebe
Member Thu Oct 02 23:52:44
yankees, What poll?

roland
Member Thu Oct 02 23:53:13
I still don't see how she won, do explain.

habebe
Member Thu Oct 02 23:53:16
yankees, What poll?

habebe
Member Thu Oct 02 23:53:16
yankees, What poll?

yankeessuck123
Member Thu Oct 02 23:54:01
Stop spamming you bum. It's on CNN's site.

yankeessuck123
Member Thu Oct 02 23:55:17
http://www...S/10/03/debate.poll/index.html

"The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. said 51 percent of those polled thought Biden did the best job, while 36 percent thought Palin did the best job."

Real Fred
Member Thu Oct 02 23:55:37
Sarah Palin did better tonight then I expected. But during the course of the debate it started to gnaw at me how she was answering the questions. There was nothing but sweeping generalizations, pre-set talking points with buzz words, and deliberative folksiness designed to make her seem more likable; when all it really did was make her seem more plastic. She brazenly stated at the beginning that she would not adhere to the format of the debate and answer the questions the moderator wanted answered. Can you imagine that? And she followed through on her threat all night long. When faced with a question she preferred not to draw an answer out on, she simply gave a one-word response and went back to a previous talking point. She was even asked once what her Achilles heal was as a candidate and she went on a two minute rant about all of her positive attributes! It was almost bizarre in the way that she ignored the majority of the questions and stuck with her script and the format did not allow for correction.

One of the arrogant and moronic talking points Palin kept drubbing was this notion that the Obama campaign keeps “looking back” because they are talking about the disaster the past eight years have been. I understand that the McCain campaign doesn’t want to have the American people vote based on the last eight years but this notion that we should not consider what has happened for the past eight years is beyond stupid. Now in the post debate coverage, this is the chief talking point from the GOP minions. Beware America; this will be their ploy moving forward. Don’t fall for it. John McBush stands for four more years of the last eight years. THAT is why their new tactic will be to not talk about the last eight years and to brand the Obama campaign as “looking back.”

While we are at it, enough with the pre-packaged sound bites. John McCain is not a maverick. It is almost as if their hope is if they say it enough, people will somehow believe it. He has voted with Bush 90% of the time over the last 8 years. His economic plan is the same as Bush. His war plans are worse than Bush. He is McBush and it doesn’t matter how much Sarah Palin smiles at me; that remains the truth. John McCain is not a reformer. He has been the greatest proponent for the deregulation that has crippled our economy. You can wink at me all you like; it doesn’t change reality.

This was a tough assignment for Joe Biden. Clearly the strategy was for Biden to attack McCain and stay away from engaging Palin. I understand the strategy because if he had attacked Palin directly, it would have been spun as picking on the woman. Considering the McCain campaign’s propensity for casting Palin as the victim, this was probably a wise move.

So, Sarah Palin did survive. She did so however by being completely dismissive of the rules and format of the debate and brazenly boasting about it. She also then threw the gauntlet down toward the end by stating that she would not deal with the “media filter” anymore. Keep an eye on this America. If she refuses to speak with the media, as she basically has since being announced, then she is clearly hiding something. It is time that people stand up and remind the candidates who makes the decisions in this country. If she refuses to answer simple questions then she should be dismissed from any serious consideration, period.

Muslim
Member Thu Oct 02 23:58:04
@ yankeesuck

"Your problem here: You are acting like it's a generally accepted conclusion that Palin won. The poll I saw had Biden with 51% and Palin with 36%. Sounds like Biden won. "

Incorrect.

The unbiased Fox News poll clearly had Palin at 98%.

habebe
Member Thu Oct 02 23:58:21
Roland, This debate was all about her, all she had to do was show she wasn't inept, she did that

What put it over the top was showing how Biden himself disagrees with obama on key issues, with him never even defending it, his best points were claiming McCain would be a Bush continuance, he failed to mak that case

Chen
Member Fri Oct 03 00:01:13
Excellent post Fred.

Alarmed
Member Fri Oct 03 00:01:30
Expectations were very low for her. I don't think she won it, but she didn't fuck it up either. If she did well enough to silence some conservatives wanting her thrown off the ticket, then it was a victory for her.

Alarmed
Member Fri Oct 03 00:03:58
That 'folksy' pandering I found pretty hideous, but then some people love that shit, apparently...

Alarmed
Member Fri Oct 03 00:06:01
Biden at his best when he's hammering home the points about McCain being wrong on Iraq, voting with Bush and adopting the same old policies. Palin at her best when talking about Biden agreeing with McCain or criticising Obama.

roland
Member Fri Oct 03 00:11:30
"This debate was all about her, all she had to do was show she wasn't inept, she did that "

I thought the debate is about who is a better candidate or team, or less worst than the other. Feel free to change the goalpost when it doesn't suit you.

habebe
Member Fri Oct 03 00:11:45
"That 'folksy' pandering I found pretty hideous, but then some people love that shit, apparently... "

I'm not personally a fan of it either, but like I said, Nixon proved it could trump even "the economy stupid"

Yankees, "But respondents said the folksy Palin was more likable, scoring 54 percent to Biden's 36 percent. Seventy percent said Biden was more of a typical politician.

Both candidates exceeded expectations -- 84 percent of the people polled said Palin did a better job than they expected, while 64 percent said Biden also exceeded expectations."

Like I said, all she had to do to win was not fumble

ALthough considering it's CNN, I'd like to see how the poll was conducted, like with the last debate poll they did questioning more democrats then anyone else, let me see a SCIENTIFIC poll, from say gallup?

Real Fred
Member Fri Oct 03 00:12:00
I do not want to have a beer with my president. I want them to be smart not folksy. I want them to be better than I am; elite…if you will. We have had eight years of a “regular” president and we cannot afford another four years of McSame.

The GOP will try hard to spin this as a slam dunk for Palin. Nonsense. She was relatively vacuous in her answers; smiling and winking instead of reflecting and answering. She had relatively little grasp on facts, even getting the name of the General in charge of Afghanistan wrong. She was completely dismissive of the rules and simply went back to her pre-packaged talking points when confronted with something she couldn’t answer. What we needed, what America needed desperately tonight, was a follow up question. That was what the difference between this debate and her failed media interviews. It is also why she stated in the debate she would not go through those “filters” anymore. I do not blame her because there is no substance behind the flash. There is no depth behind the wink.

yankeessuck123
Member Fri Oct 03 00:12:22
So what if she was seen as 'more likable', the poll had Biden winning by a 15% margin.

habebe
Member Fri Oct 03 00:14:55
"I thought the debate is about who is a better candidate or team, or less worst than the other. Feel free to change the goalpost when it doesn't suit you. "

In a perfect world, maybe, but lets be realistic, how many people tuned in to watch JOe Biden?

Chen
Member Fri Oct 03 00:16:50
Those winks really drove me batshit. It's such a stupid, simple ploy that will only attract the retard vote. Unfortunately for me, the retard vote makes up a good chunk of the country.

All of her "I'm a small town Washington outsider" crap was way over the top as well. I don't want some random ass small town hick a breath away from President. They might as well put some random UP poster in that position.

yankeessuck123
Member Fri Oct 03 00:17:53
At least most UPers are fairly well informed on the issues.

roland
Member Fri Oct 03 00:19:58
"In a perfect world, maybe, but lets be realistic, how many people tuned in to watch JOe Biden? "

I thought the question in hand is how did she won the debate. And you know in order to do that, you got to do better than the other guy, she didn't. So how did she win?

I don't care who watch the debate, like it or not, she is in a race competing with someone, and not just in a glass house on her own.

habebe
Member Fri Oct 03 00:20:06
"So what if she was seen as 'more likable', the poll had Biden winning by a 15% margin. "

An, opinion poll that wasn't scientific, I could poll my family, ut that would not accuratley poll America now would it, like I said, last time CNN did a poll their were something like 40% more dems then there were reps, well duh, of course they would think obama beat McCain

And even this probably bias poll (like the previus one) she exceeded expectations by a 20% margin, which in this case happened to be all she really had to do

habebe
Member Fri Oct 03 00:20:06
"So what if she was seen as 'more likable', the poll had Biden winning by a 15% margin. "

An, opinion poll that wasn't scientific, I could poll my family, ut that would not accuratley poll America now would it, like I said, last time CNN did a poll their were something like 40% more dems then there were reps, well duh, of course they would think obama beat McCain

And even this probably bias poll (like the previus one) she exceeded expectations by a 20% margin, which in this case happened to be all she really had to do

Master Bates
Member Fri Oct 03 00:20:55

Omg. The Reps finally did it. Picked a Fox anchor as their leader.

Alarmed
Member Fri Oct 03 00:21:03
It was a victory for Palin in so much as it will have settled doubts. But I doubt many people are going to change their votes after the debate.

habebe
Member Fri Oct 03 00:24:33
"Those winks really drove me batshit. It's such a stupid, simple ploy that will only attract the retard vote. Unfortunately for me, the retard vote makes up a good chunk of the country. "

Lie I said me personally? I'm not a fan, but it works, the Republicans know it works, NIxon figured out that it works, and lets face it, the "retard vote" will not be swayed by real issues anyway

habebe
Member Fri Oct 03 00:29:16
Oh well, it's 1:30 damn near over here, so G'night, and I'll see you tomorrow when we know some better numbers to crunch

Alarmed
Member Fri Oct 03 00:40:13
A lot of people have this idea that politics isn't all that complicated, and if only a decent, honest, everyday-type person, someone who sees the simple truth behind things (someone like *them*) could get into office, they'd sort things out quick-snap. A good chunk of Palin's appeal rests on this view. This view that the results of the Bush presidency really should've annihilated by now.

Canadian
Member Fri Oct 03 00:42:34
"All Palin had to do is hold her own to win the debate, and she did"

- According to you, losing is a victory? Alrighty then.

"I'd even say on an even playing ground she slighlty won the debate, she did an excellent job at poining out the seperation of obama and Biden several times, (Biden claimed obama wasn't ready for the whitehouse..."

- Yeah, that was one of her only good hits, but no way she won. She didn't even debate, just talked to the camera and ignored everything that didn't fit into her script.

"Biden also attempted to link McCain to Bush, it failed miserably"

- Again, according again to you. Unfortunately for you, he did link them somewhat, though the effect probably will be minimal because of his "choking up" and Palin not totally sucking (again, because she just stuck to the script).

"What made it an overwhelming Palin victory though was that people expected less from her, and more from Biden, which I said time and time again
I told you so!!!"

- So because she didn't get annihilated she won? Alright, whatever you say there. I just hope you're never in a position to command anything in your life.

Alarmed
Member Fri Oct 03 00:53:41
Canadian:
I think habebe meant that she won on a tactical level in terms of the campaign, not that she won the debate on its own terms or whatever.

Though I may be wrong about this.

Dukhat
Member Fri Oct 03 01:25:53
Bush's chickens are coming home to roost.

4 years ago, on balance Palin would've won votes. Nowadays people are more skeptical.

People who have never seen Carter are half the electorate and the Carter years which made republican talking points the assumptions of most AMmericans have been hammered away by the bias of the mainstream media.

Alarmed
Member Fri Oct 03 01:31:38
Anyone notice how she spent much of the time attacking Biden, while Biden sensibly went after McCain...

Stone
Member Fri Oct 03 02:35:06
ROFL Palin is such an idiot, on climate:

"We have got to clean up this planet. We have got to encourage other nations also to come along with us with the impacts of climate change, what we can do about that.
...
Also as we rely more and more on other countries that don't care as much about the climate as we do, we're allowing them to produce and to emit and even pollute more than America would ever stand for."

ROFL!!!!!

It were the other nations that had to force the USA to accept that there IS a climate change.

Nekran
Member Fri Oct 03 05:05:12
Palin did do better than expected... sure she didn't answer a lot of questions and kept repeating a lot of buzz words and empty slogans. But at least she learnt to do it in a somewhat believable way and not just start babbling nonsense.

However what I wonder about these debates... why is there no fact-checking by the moderator? How can it be allowed that both candidates can make exact opposite claims about facts? Why don't some people quickly look it up and tell the moderator the facts? Leaving out the actual facts makes these debates rather worthless for a great part.

Hot Rod
Moderator Fri Oct 03 05:39:02

When she shook hands with Biden and said, "can I call you Joe?"

She removed all doubts. She established herself as a player and the rest of the debate proved it.

aspire
Member Fri Oct 03 06:26:30
"So, Sarah Palin did survive. She did so however by being completely dismissive of the rules and format of the debate and brazenly boasting about it. She also then threw the gauntlet down toward the end by stating that she would not deal with the “media filter” anymore. Keep an eye on this America. If she refuses to speak with the media, as she basically has since being announced, then she is clearly hiding something. It is time that people stand up and remind the candidates who makes the decisions in this country. If she refuses to answer simple questions then she should be dismissed from any serious consideration, period. "

I have to say that she has a point here. She gave them a chance and then they edit the broadcast of her words so that only parts of her responses are aired. At least if she speaks straight and unedited to the American people she might get a fair shot at getting everything she said in a sentance boradcast.

Hot Rod
Moderator Fri Oct 03 06:31:20

aspire, but the left does not want her to have a fair shot at having The American People hear her message.

If she is allowed to speak directly, they cannot spin their lies.

Alarmed
Member Fri Oct 03 07:21:10
Seems like it's the McCain camp that doesn't want TAP hearing her message.

Stone
Member Fri Oct 03 07:40:52
"When she shook hands with Biden and said, "can I call you Joe?"

She removed all doubts. She established herself as a player and the rest of the debate proved it. "

ROFL!!!!

licker
Sports Mod Fri Oct 03 08:42:48
I didn't watch it because I really didn't give a shit and know that VP debates are completely meaningless.

However, Fred thinks Bush is a 'regular' guy?

roflmao...

Oh sure, he likes to portray himself as a regular guy, but come on, even Fred isn't that stupid to think that GWB isn't an even bigger elitist than McCain or Obama right?

Yeah, the son of a president who went to only private schools and was CEO of companies and ran a fucking baseball team is a 'regular' guy.

To the point that he's stupid... well he very well might be, but I've yet to be impressed by the 'intelligence' of these elitists running for the office.

No, what we need is a smart regular guy, not another stupid elitist.

Palin is the closest to 'regular gal' we have running, but unfortunately she is also very stupid. Obama is perhaps the furthest from 'regular guy' (since its not just about money...) and even if he is the most intelligent of the bunch he's still a fucking retard politician who isn't going to change a damn thing.

I know Fred is voting Nader, and to that I say, excellent choice, I'm probably also going to vote for him if they don't strip him from the ballot like they are trying to do.

roland
Member Fri Oct 03 08:49:52
I think he is the "regular" guy in term of the image he tries to present.

licker
Sports Mod Fri Oct 03 08:55:58
Didn't I already say that?!?!?!?

Its still not true by any stretch of the imagination though.

Still Well
Member Fri Oct 03 08:58:08
I flipped over to the debate every now ans then but it seemed boring to me. I much preferred the Canadian debate last night.

Farkeld
Member Fri Oct 03 15:10:35
"When she shook hands with Biden and said, "can I call you Joe?"

She removed all doubts. She established herself as a player and the rest of the debate proved it."

Do you ever choke on all that bullshit?

roland
Member Fri Oct 03 22:39:30
What the hell is that?

show deleted posts

habebe Member	Thu Oct 02 23:45:20 All Palin had to do is hold her own to win the debate, and she did I'd even say on an even playing ground she slighlty won the debate, she did an excellent job at poining out the seperation of obama and Biden several times, (Biden claimed obama wasn't ready for the whitehouse, and that his vote against funding the troops was soley "political") Biden also attempted to link McCain/Palin to Bush, it failed miserably What made it an overwhelming Palin victory though was that people expected less from her, and more from Biden, which I said time and time again I told you so!!! will this sway dem votes? no, will this take away the fear in independants that she is a bumbling moron? yes
yankeessuck123 Member	Thu Oct 02 23:48:46 Your problem here: You are acting like it's a generally accepted conclusion that Palin won. The poll I saw had Biden with 51% and Palin with 36%. Sounds like Biden won.
Nimatzo Member	Thu Oct 02 23:50:30 You have to be kidding. She looked like a news reporter reading off a tele prompter. There was no freaking debate, she didn't answer one question, she was looking down at her notes all the time. What are you talking about "she won", it was never even a contest. I feel sorry for you having so inept politicians and such a worthless political system that this constitutes a victory.
habebe Member	Thu Oct 02 23:51:04 On top of all that, she took a play directly from the Nixon playbook with the "straight up" talk "dawgonnit", yes she may have added her twist to it with the lingo,but it's Nixonian all the way, love him or hate him, the man discovered how to win a campaign in the US, and it's "down to earth" talk to "joe six-pack"
roland Member	Thu Oct 02 23:51:33 Mission accomplished!!!!
habebe Member	Thu Oct 02 23:52:44 yankees, What poll?
roland Member	Thu Oct 02 23:53:13 I still don't see how she won, do explain.
habebe Member	Thu Oct 02 23:53:16 yankees, What poll?
habebe Member	Thu Oct 02 23:53:16 yankees, What poll?
yankeessuck123 Member	Thu Oct 02 23:54:01 Stop spamming you bum. It's on CNN's site.
yankeessuck123 Member	Thu Oct 02 23:55:17 http://www...S/10/03/debate.poll/index.html "The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. said 51 percent of those polled thought Biden did the best job, while 36 percent thought Palin did the best job."
Real Fred Member	Thu Oct 02 23:55:37 Sarah Palin did better tonight then I expected. But during the course of the debate it started to gnaw at me how she was answering the questions. There was nothing but sweeping generalizations, pre-set talking points with buzz words, and deliberative folksiness designed to make her seem more likable; when all it really did was make her seem more plastic. She brazenly stated at the beginning that she would not adhere to the format of the debate and answer the questions the moderator wanted answered. Can you imagine that? And she followed through on her threat all night long. When faced with a question she preferred not to draw an answer out on, she simply gave a one-word response and went back to a previous talking point. She was even asked once what her Achilles heal was as a candidate and she went on a two minute rant about all of her positive attributes! It was almost bizarre in the way that she ignored the majority of the questions and stuck with her script and the format did not allow for correction. One of the arrogant and moronic talking points Palin kept drubbing was this notion that the Obama campaign keeps “looking back” because they are talking about the disaster the past eight years have been. I understand that the McCain campaign doesn’t want to have the American people vote based on the last eight years but this notion that we should not consider what has happened for the past eight years is beyond stupid. Now in the post debate coverage, this is the chief talking point from the GOP minions. Beware America; this will be their ploy moving forward. Don’t fall for it. John McBush stands for four more years of the last eight years. THAT is why their new tactic will be to not talk about the last eight years and to brand the Obama campaign as “looking back.” While we are at it, enough with the pre-packaged sound bites. John McCain is not a maverick. It is almost as if their hope is if they say it enough, people will somehow believe it. He has voted with Bush 90% of the time over the last 8 years. His economic plan is the same as Bush. His war plans are worse than Bush. He is McBush and it doesn’t matter how much Sarah Palin smiles at me; that remains the truth. John McCain is not a reformer. He has been the greatest proponent for the deregulation that has crippled our economy. You can wink at me all you like; it doesn’t change reality. This was a tough assignment for Joe Biden. Clearly the strategy was for Biden to attack McCain and stay away from engaging Palin. I understand the strategy because if he had attacked Palin directly, it would have been spun as picking on the woman. Considering the McCain campaign’s propensity for casting Palin as the victim, this was probably a wise move. So, Sarah Palin did survive. She did so however by being completely dismissive of the rules and format of the debate and brazenly boasting about it. She also then threw the gauntlet down toward the end by stating that she would not deal with the “media filter” anymore. Keep an eye on this America. If she refuses to speak with the media, as she basically has since being announced, then she is clearly hiding something. It is time that people stand up and remind the candidates who makes the decisions in this country. If she refuses to answer simple questions then she should be dismissed from any serious consideration, period.
Muslim Member	Thu Oct 02 23:58:04 @ yankeesuck "Your problem here: You are acting like it's a generally accepted conclusion that Palin won. The poll I saw had Biden with 51% and Palin with 36%. Sounds like Biden won. " Incorrect. The unbiased Fox News poll clearly had Palin at 98%.
habebe Member	Thu Oct 02 23:58:21 Roland, This debate was all about her, all she had to do was show she wasn't inept, she did that What put it over the top was showing how Biden himself disagrees with obama on key issues, with him never even defending it, his best points were claiming McCain would be a Bush continuance, he failed to mak that case
Chen Member	Fri Oct 03 00:01:13 Excellent post Fred.
Alarmed Member	Fri Oct 03 00:01:30 Expectations were very low for her. I don't think she won it, but she didn't fuck it up either. If she did well enough to silence some conservatives wanting her thrown off the ticket, then it was a victory for her.
Alarmed Member	Fri Oct 03 00:03:58 That 'folksy' pandering I found pretty hideous, but then some people love that shit, apparently...
Alarmed Member	Fri Oct 03 00:06:01 Biden at his best when he's hammering home the points about McCain being wrong on Iraq, voting with Bush and adopting the same old policies. Palin at her best when talking about Biden agreeing with McCain or criticising Obama.
roland Member	Fri Oct 03 00:11:30 "This debate was all about her, all she had to do was show she wasn't inept, she did that " I thought the debate is about who is a better candidate or team, or less worst than the other. Feel free to change the goalpost when it doesn't suit you.
habebe Member	Fri Oct 03 00:11:45 "That 'folksy' pandering I found pretty hideous, but then some people love that shit, apparently... " I'm not personally a fan of it either, but like I said, Nixon proved it could trump even "the economy stupid" Yankees, "But respondents said the folksy Palin was more likable, scoring 54 percent to Biden's 36 percent. Seventy percent said Biden was more of a typical politician. Both candidates exceeded expectations -- 84 percent of the people polled said Palin did a better job than they expected, while 64 percent said Biden also exceeded expectations." Like I said, all she had to do to win was not fumble ALthough considering it's CNN, I'd like to see how the poll was conducted, like with the last debate poll they did questioning more democrats then anyone else, let me see a SCIENTIFIC poll, from say gallup?
Real Fred Member	Fri Oct 03 00:12:00 I do not want to have a beer with my president. I want them to be smart not folksy. I want them to be better than I am; elite…if you will. We have had eight years of a “regular” president and we cannot afford another four years of McSame. The GOP will try hard to spin this as a slam dunk for Palin. Nonsense. She was relatively vacuous in her answers; smiling and winking instead of reflecting and answering. She had relatively little grasp on facts, even getting the name of the General in charge of Afghanistan wrong. She was completely dismissive of the rules and simply went back to her pre-packaged talking points when confronted with something she couldn’t answer. What we needed, what America needed desperately tonight, was a follow up question. That was what the difference between this debate and her failed media interviews. It is also why she stated in the debate she would not go through those “filters” anymore. I do not blame her because there is no substance behind the flash. There is no depth behind the wink.
yankeessuck123 Member	Fri Oct 03 00:12:22 So what if she was seen as 'more likable', the poll had Biden winning by a 15% margin.
habebe Member	Fri Oct 03 00:14:55 "I thought the debate is about who is a better candidate or team, or less worst than the other. Feel free to change the goalpost when it doesn't suit you. " In a perfect world, maybe, but lets be realistic, how many people tuned in to watch JOe Biden?
Chen Member	Fri Oct 03 00:16:50 Those winks really drove me batshit. It's such a stupid, simple ploy that will only attract the retard vote. Unfortunately for me, the retard vote makes up a good chunk of the country. All of her "I'm a small town Washington outsider" crap was way over the top as well. I don't want some random ass small town hick a breath away from President. They might as well put some random UP poster in that position.
yankeessuck123 Member	Fri Oct 03 00:17:53 At least most UPers are fairly well informed on the issues.
roland Member	Fri Oct 03 00:19:58 "In a perfect world, maybe, but lets be realistic, how many people tuned in to watch JOe Biden? " I thought the question in hand is how did she won the debate. And you know in order to do that, you got to do better than the other guy, she didn't. So how did she win? I don't care who watch the debate, like it or not, she is in a race competing with someone, and not just in a glass house on her own.
habebe Member	Fri Oct 03 00:20:06 "So what if she was seen as 'more likable', the poll had Biden winning by a 15% margin. " An, opinion poll that wasn't scientific, I could poll my family, ut that would not accuratley poll America now would it, like I said, last time CNN did a poll their were something like 40% more dems then there were reps, well duh, of course they would think obama beat McCain And even this probably bias poll (like the previus one) she exceeded expectations by a 20% margin, which in this case happened to be all she really had to do
habebe Member	Fri Oct 03 00:20:06 "So what if she was seen as 'more likable', the poll had Biden winning by a 15% margin. " An, opinion poll that wasn't scientific, I could poll my family, ut that would not accuratley poll America now would it, like I said, last time CNN did a poll their were something like 40% more dems then there were reps, well duh, of course they would think obama beat McCain And even this probably bias poll (like the previus one) she exceeded expectations by a 20% margin, which in this case happened to be all she really had to do
Master Bates Member	Fri Oct 03 00:20:55 Omg. The Reps finally did it. Picked a Fox anchor as their leader.
Alarmed Member	Fri Oct 03 00:21:03 It was a victory for Palin in so much as it will have settled doubts. But I doubt many people are going to change their votes after the debate.
habebe Member	Fri Oct 03 00:24:33 "Those winks really drove me batshit. It's such a stupid, simple ploy that will only attract the retard vote. Unfortunately for me, the retard vote makes up a good chunk of the country. " Lie I said me personally? I'm not a fan, but it works, the Republicans know it works, NIxon figured out that it works, and lets face it, the "retard vote" will not be swayed by real issues anyway
habebe Member	Fri Oct 03 00:29:16 Oh well, it's 1:30 damn near over here, so G'night, and I'll see you tomorrow when we know some better numbers to crunch
Alarmed Member	Fri Oct 03 00:40:13 A lot of people have this idea that politics isn't all that complicated, and if only a decent, honest, everyday-type person, someone who sees the simple truth behind things (someone like them) could get into office, they'd sort things out quick-snap. A good chunk of Palin's appeal rests on this view. This view that the results of the Bush presidency really should've annihilated by now.
Canadian Member	Fri Oct 03 00:42:34 "All Palin had to do is hold her own to win the debate, and she did" - According to you, losing is a victory? Alrighty then. "I'd even say on an even playing ground she slighlty won the debate, she did an excellent job at poining out the seperation of obama and Biden several times, (Biden claimed obama wasn't ready for the whitehouse..." - Yeah, that was one of her only good hits, but no way she won. She didn't even debate, just talked to the camera and ignored everything that didn't fit into her script. "Biden also attempted to link McCain to Bush, it failed miserably" - Again, according again to you. Unfortunately for you, he did link them somewhat, though the effect probably will be minimal because of his "choking up" and Palin not totally sucking (again, because she just stuck to the script). "What made it an overwhelming Palin victory though was that people expected less from her, and more from Biden, which I said time and time again I told you so!!!" - So because she didn't get annihilated she won? Alright, whatever you say there. I just hope you're never in a position to command anything in your life.
Alarmed Member	Fri Oct 03 00:53:41 Canadian: I think habebe meant that she won on a tactical level in terms of the campaign, not that she won the debate on its own terms or whatever. Though I may be wrong about this.
Dukhat Member	Fri Oct 03 01:25:53 Bush's chickens are coming home to roost. 4 years ago, on balance Palin would've won votes. Nowadays people are more skeptical. People who have never seen Carter are half the electorate and the Carter years which made republican talking points the assumptions of most AMmericans have been hammered away by the bias of the mainstream media.
Alarmed Member	Fri Oct 03 01:31:38 Anyone notice how she spent much of the time attacking Biden, while Biden sensibly went after McCain...
Stone Member	Fri Oct 03 02:35:06 ROFL Palin is such an idiot, on climate: "We have got to clean up this planet. We have got to encourage other nations also to come along with us with the impacts of climate change, what we can do about that. ... Also as we rely more and more on other countries that don't care as much about the climate as we do, we're allowing them to produce and to emit and even pollute more than America would ever stand for." ROFL!!!!! It were the other nations that had to force the USA to accept that there IS a climate change.
Nekran Member	Fri Oct 03 05:05:12 Palin did do better than expected... sure she didn't answer a lot of questions and kept repeating a lot of buzz words and empty slogans. But at least she learnt to do it in a somewhat believable way and not just start babbling nonsense. However what I wonder about these debates... why is there no fact-checking by the moderator? How can it be allowed that both candidates can make exact opposite claims about facts? Why don't some people quickly look it up and tell the moderator the facts? Leaving out the actual facts makes these debates rather worthless for a great part.
Hot Rod Moderator	Fri Oct 03 05:39:02 When she shook hands with Biden and said, "can I call you Joe?" She removed all doubts. She established herself as a player and the rest of the debate proved it.
aspire Member	Fri Oct 03 06:26:30 "So, Sarah Palin did survive. She did so however by being completely dismissive of the rules and format of the debate and brazenly boasting about it. She also then threw the gauntlet down toward the end by stating that she would not deal with the “media filter” anymore. Keep an eye on this America. If she refuses to speak with the media, as she basically has since being announced, then she is clearly hiding something. It is time that people stand up and remind the candidates who makes the decisions in this country. If she refuses to answer simple questions then she should be dismissed from any serious consideration, period. " I have to say that she has a point here. She gave them a chance and then they edit the broadcast of her words so that only parts of her responses are aired. At least if she speaks straight and unedited to the American people she might get a fair shot at getting everything she said in a sentance boradcast.
Hot Rod Moderator	Fri Oct 03 06:31:20 aspire, but the left does not want her to have a fair shot at having The American People hear her message. If she is allowed to speak directly, they cannot spin their lies.
Alarmed Member	Fri Oct 03 07:21:10 Seems like it's the McCain camp that doesn't want TAP hearing her message.
Stone Member	Fri Oct 03 07:40:52 "When she shook hands with Biden and said, "can I call you Joe?" She removed all doubts. She established herself as a player and the rest of the debate proved it. " ROFL!!!!
licker Sports Mod	Fri Oct 03 08:42:48 I didn't watch it because I really didn't give a shit and know that VP debates are completely meaningless. However, Fred thinks Bush is a 'regular' guy? roflmao... Oh sure, he likes to portray himself as a regular guy, but come on, even Fred isn't that stupid to think that GWB isn't an even bigger elitist than McCain or Obama right? Yeah, the son of a president who went to only private schools and was CEO of companies and ran a fucking baseball team is a 'regular' guy. To the point that he's stupid... well he very well might be, but I've yet to be impressed by the 'intelligence' of these elitists running for the office. No, what we need is a smart regular guy, not another stupid elitist. Palin is the closest to 'regular gal' we have running, but unfortunately she is also very stupid. Obama is perhaps the furthest from 'regular guy' (since its not just about money...) and even if he is the most intelligent of the bunch he's still a fucking retard politician who isn't going to change a damn thing. I know Fred is voting Nader, and to that I say, excellent choice, I'm probably also going to vote for him if they don't strip him from the ballot like they are trying to do.
roland Member	Fri Oct 03 08:49:52 I think he is the "regular" guy in term of the image he tries to present.
licker Sports Mod	Fri Oct 03 08:55:58 Didn't I already say that?!?!?!? Its still not true by any stretch of the imagination though.
Still Well Member	Fri Oct 03 08:58:08 I flipped over to the debate every now ans then but it seemed boring to me. I much preferred the Canadian debate last night.
Farkeld Member	Fri Oct 03 15:10:35 "When she shook hands with Biden and said, "can I call you Joe?" She removed all doubts. She established herself as a player and the rest of the debate proved it." Do you ever choke on all that bullshit?
roland Member	Fri Oct 03 22:39:30 What the hell is that?
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