Utopia Talk / Politics / EU not discussing Russia sanctions

murder Moderator	Mon Aug 25 06:09:23 Kouchner says EU not discussing Russia sanctions AP - French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner says the European Union does not envision sanctions against Russia after Russia's short but intense war with Georgia. Kouchner says that though "problems remain, we are not talking about sanctions" against Russia. He spoke Monday on France Inter radio. France currently holds the European Union's rotating presidency. French President Nicolas Sarkozy has called a Sept. 1 EU meeting in Brussels to focus on what steps the 27-member bloc will take in terms of aid to Georgia and future relations with Russia. Fighting broke out Aug. 7 when Georgia tried to retake its separatist republic of South Ossetia, which has close ties to Russia. Western nations have complained that Russia is not obeying an EU-brokered cease-fire agreement to pull all its forces out of Georgia. www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/25/europe/EU-Georgia.php
murder Moderator	Mon Aug 25 06:10:21 Shocking huh? ;o)
BushIsDaBestPresid Member	Mon Aug 25 06:15:10 eros wil alweys b pusis
redblooded Member	Mon Aug 25 11:06:56 politics and war are means to further economic interests. It's in Europe's interest to ditch NATO, reject US leadership, improve relations with Russia and found a new military treaty organisation with the US, Russia and China - and minor partners like Brasil, RSA, India, Australia, Egypt and Iran to sign a non-aggression pact, to hold joint excersizes and to protect the trade-routes in their area.
crownroyal Member	Mon Aug 25 11:27:12 Germany warns Russia West has other energy options(AFP) 25 August 2008 BERLIN - Germany on Monday warned Russia to respect its pledge to pull its troops out of Georgia, stressing that the West also had leverage in its dealings with Moscow as an energy partner. Deputy government spokesman Thomas Steg told reporters that Berlin expected Russian troops to withdrawal from western Georgia in line with a six-point, French-brokered ceasefire plan to end the conflict. When asked what measures could be undertaken to bring pressure to bear on Moscow, Steg noted that Russia was also reliant on Western cooperation in overhauling its infrastructure. "Without EU cooperation, this modernisation will not succeed," he said at a regular government news conference. Steg added that Germany had made progress in recent years in diversifying its energy supply, reducing its reliance on Russian gas. "We of course have an interest in secure, regular, reliable deliveries of Russian gas," Steg said. "(But) it must be remembered that we are not only dependent on Russia even if it is an important supplier." Steg said economic ties must rest on a "certain understanding of common values" which Germany would not abandon. "We won't see this issue in a different light this winter," when demand for gas for heating soars, Steg said. The European Union has signalled growing impatience with Russia by announcing a special European summit on the Georgia crisis on September 1. German Chancellor Angela Merkel said late Sunday in a television interview that she trusted Russian President Dmitry Medvedev to comply with the ceasefire plan he signed this month. But she acknowledged that the troop withdrawal to date has fallen short of the plan's terms. "We could be looking at a breach if things remain as they are," she said in reference to Russian checkpoints in areas such as the Black Sea port of Poti, which lie beyond the boundaries of a so-called buffer zone. She began a tour of Sweden and the Baltic states Monday, hoping to mend damaging differences in Europe's response to the Georgia crisis and over future relations with Moscow. http://www.khaleejtimes.com/ DisplayArticleNew.asp?col=§ion=theworld&xfile=data/ theworld/2008/August/theworld_August1516.xml
jergul Member	Mon Aug 25 11:36:00 The thing people need to understand is that Russia requires a enduring territorial dispute at this juncture.
Standard of Reason Member	Mon Aug 25 11:49:07 I love how these articles talk about the war as if it is over. There may not be any regular "combat," but the conflict is by no means over. More like on hiatus for a few moments.
Dakyron Member	Mon Aug 25 12:04:20 EU continues to lack balls.
JNH Member	Mon Aug 25 14:36:35 Dakyron, are you suggesting that the EU should be able to force feed its vision of foreign policy on sovereign member states?
Dakyron Member	Mon Aug 25 14:37:36 No. Im suggesting the EU is spineless.
shannon Member	Mon Aug 25 21:41:25 Yet another demonstration of the pointless EU unable to deal with the real world...
crownroyal Member	Mon Aug 25 21:48:41 Let's say you are the EU president, shannon. Lets also say that all EU buerocrats, scared by Russia, support your action whatever they might be. What is your next move, out of couriosity?
shannon Member	Tue Aug 26 00:49:28 If I was President of the EU my first move would be to dissolve the EU...and return to sovereign national govts. CR, yours is an inane question. There can be no unity of purpose within the EU as there exists no unity of national interest. Whats Germany may support for its own sake will not be supported by others, eg Poland or the UK.
Turtle Crawler Admin	Tue Aug 26 00:51:50 The EU gets a lot of their natural gas from Russia. They are pretty dependant and its not like they have real militaries anymore anyway.
Standard of Reason Member	Tue Aug 26 00:57:43 So it's ok for the EU to bend over backwards for cheap resources from a despotic country, but when the United States does it, we're accused of being hypocrites and told to tighten our belts and develop new technology? What a joke.
JNH Member	Tue Aug 26 03:53:06 shannon, "Yet another demonstration of the pointless EU unable to deal with the real world..." EU can't do anything because it doesn't have a mandate to do so. It's nothing new though that you contradict yourself. You criticize the EU for not doing X and at the same time you don't want the EU to be able to do anything about X, a textbook example of hypocrisy. Standard of Reason, "So it's ok for the EU to bend over backwards for cheap resources from a despotic country, but when the United States does it, we're accused of being hypocrites and told to tighten our belts and develop new technology?" Huh? For how many years have EU countries been criticized for bending over backwards to get cheap oil, Oil for Food etc..?
JNH Member	Tue Aug 26 04:02:20 Dakyron, "No. Im suggesting the EU is spineless." Of course, because then you can avoid the issue of federalism in the EU area, one of favorite points of criticism when discusssing EU matters.
shannon Member	Tue Aug 26 04:03:30 'EU can't do anything because it doesn't have a mandate to do so.' and wont ever get one. ie the EU is again demonstrably pointless. 'You criticize the EU for not doing X' no simpleton jnh, I oppose the EU for existing at all...not because it doesnt pursue any particular course of action. No hypocrisy there at all. It is instructive to know that Gerhard Schroeder a former German Chancellor and as such a member of the EU Council, is now in the employ of a Russian state controlled gas company!
redblooded Member	Tue Aug 26 13:17:05 The EU threatens the position of the US, thereby threatening the position of USophile Brits who delight in their country's position of the US most favourite pet.
JNH Member	Tue Aug 26 17:41:52 "'EU can't do anything because it doesn't have a mandate to do so.' and wont ever get one. ie the EU is again demonstrably pointless." Why do you think the EU should be a solution to all problems? "'You criticize the EU for not doing X' no simpleton jnh, I oppose the EU for existing at all...not because it doesnt pursue any particular course of action. No hypocrisy there at all." Poof, your hypocrisy is gone just because you said so. Wow, magic.
crownroyal Member	Tue Aug 26 18:15:20 "CR, yours is an inane question" Hypothetical, not inane. Your answer was inane. You could have humoured me with equally hypothetical answer, even with your humourless nature.
shannon Member	Wed Aug 27 10:09:05 The EU is a train wreck. The sooner you eurotwats wake up the better.
JNH Member	Wed Aug 27 17:15:47 I suppose the dream will go on for a while when we help our dear anglospherian friends. http://tinyurl.com/6as3jc "The ECB's money-market system is also attracting demand from outside the euro region. The Frankfurt-based central bank said in June it will accept asset-backed bonds sold by Macquarie Group Ltd., Australia's biggest securities firm, and backed by Australian consumer loans as collateral. U.K. mortgage lender Nationwide Building Society said Aug. 18 it's planning to expand into Ireland, a member of the euro region, to take advantage of ``funding opportunities.'' " Of course not forgetting the 50 billion USD ECB offers to the US markets. http://tinyurl.com/5au7ag "The ECB will conduct bi-weekly operations, alternating between operations of USD 20 billion of 28-days maturity and operations of USD 10 billion of 84-days maturity. This means that, following a transition period, there will be three outstanding 84-day operations and one outstanding 28-day operation for a total unchanged outstanding amount of USD 50 billion."
shannon Member	Thu Aug 28 10:46:41 lol oh dont get me started on the euro. ECB slammed by Nobel economist as European slump deepens Daily Telegraph London Almost the entire region of Western Europe, Scandinavia and the Baltics is on the cusp of fully fledged recession, raising fresh fears about the health of Europes banking system. Germanys IFO confidence index of future business crashed in July to levels last seen in the post-unification bust of the early 1990s. Over the past three months the index has suffered the steepest decline since the 1973 oil shock. "Everything is coming to a head at the same time," said Julian Callow, Europe economist at Barclays Capital. "The euros surge over the past two years has caught up. Weve seen a hollowing out of the euro area's industrial sector, an oil shock, and tightening credit conditions, made worse by the European Central Bank's decision to raise rates in June," he said. Nobel economist Robert Solow said the ECB had made a bad mistake and was now moving far too slowly to stop the downturn engulfing the region. http://www.../money/2008/08/27/ccecb127.xml
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