Utopia Talk / Politics / Game of thrones: Beyond da fuckin Wall

Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Sun Aug 20 00:13:49 70 mins of violence, dragon nudity, and continuity porn. King Johnny T and his team go beyond the wall to kidnap a dead dude. Sansa realizes her family is batshit crazy and misses Kings Landing. What is the creepiest thing can Bran see and say? Why doesn't Danny wear Armour when going into battle? Why does Kit Harrington have more sexual chemistry with a CGI dragon then with Emilia Clarke? Real spoilers in the next post.
obaminated Member	Sun Aug 20 21:06:17 Arya is quite a bitch.
hood Member	Sun Aug 20 21:16:40 That went just about how I expected.
Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Sun Aug 20 23:29:08 I expected them to kill off more characters.
obaminated Member	Sun Aug 20 23:32:26 I understand why they didn't. They need to wait til the final season before they start killing off known characters because if they did it now, it's too late to introduce new character the audience will care about. Losing a dragon is, in the words of Joe Biden, a big fucking deal.
hood Member	Sun Aug 20 23:51:21 The ones they did kill off weren't exactly fan favorites or people with lots of screen time. They could have, and should have, let king wildling die. Saving Jon Snow so quickly was anticlimactic. The character they threw away for him was hardly important, especially since we knew he couldn't go south of the wall.
obaminated Member	Mon Aug 21 01:24:57 When uncle benjin saved bran last season he said he did so because the 3 eyed raven had him do it. Presumably Bran, the current 3 eyed raven, did the same. If it is never explained then yeah I'll agree it is lazy writing. But this series has earned the benefit the doubt as it tends to tie everything back together.
obaminated Member	Mon Aug 21 01:32:20 And killing a dragon definitely worked to show how dangerous the nights king really is. It was a solid way to raise the stakes. Dany went 3 dragons vs the undead army to 2 dragons vs the undead plus an undead dragon.
pillz Member	Mon Aug 21 01:59:10 Nights King is so obviously Bran at this point, the nose.
Asgard Member	Mon Aug 21 02:11:21 but we know who the actor is, we saw him getting stabbed by the Children of the Forest last season. He has his own nose.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Aug 21 03:06:59 Very kewl episode! The pacing was just as it should be in the normal, non-accelerated season episodes, though you have to wonder how fast a raven can fly from Eastwatch to Dragonstone (how long were they stuck? A few days?). Slower pacing was nice because the scenery was beautiful in the walking portions of the episode (e.g., random screen grabs http://i.imgur.com/M1ZCrs3.png http://i.imgur.com/iWWw14U.png ).. I think that was mostly Iceland because episode credits only mention the Iceland unit and the arrow mountain looked like Iceland's Kirkjufell Mountain, which they used also in Season 6.. I do agree that Jon's quick save was (somewhat) anticlimactic.. still, he was gone long enough that I was already thinking about the implications of it :p .. back on track, Jon and Danny just got closer to the Leia/Luke situation; if Jon gets back to Winterfell before things get too romantic with Danny, then Bran will tell him his lineage and Jon&Danny can just pretend that their fondness was always purely platonic ;) ..And I was *glad* they didn't kill Tormund!! Fuck you, Hood! ;D .. this episode did a lot of setup for his death (he had a lot of character time on the walk), so there was cause for concern. It looked like he was having flashbacks to his close call in the Battle of the Bastards, which makes me wonder if he's getting too curious about his own death. And while they didn't kill any major/likeable characters, as the Hound pointed out: Thoros does change the game for Beric (and Jon too). Someone/Jon will likely receive that Melisandre save in season 8, but right now "God Mode" has departed. Arya has become a retarded person. Like, okay, I guess we just compare everyone to Lyanna Mormont now and hold children fully accountable by that standard? ;D .. I guess she's what happens when you're basically invincible but too stupid to think. It makes some sense, though; she saw Sansa on the stage looking all happy because Sansa thought that Ned was going to be pardoned, but when Joffrey flipped the script Yoren blocked Arya from seeing the rest. Still, even if Arya maybe didn't see Sansa crying and begging, you'd think that Arya would have *heard* Sansa screaming for Joffrey to stop?.. I guess Arya just has a lot of stupid anger, like she sort of said ;D Littlefinger's plan to turn them against each other seems to be working, but how does that plan evolve once he knows that Arya can steal faces from the people she's killed? Maybe it wouldn't? That is, he had Brienne sent away, so he's not trying to get Arya killed in single combat. Maybe he just needs for the lords to see in public that Arya is a threat to Sansa, which would result in Arya's arrest/execution/exile. If LF finds out about the face-switching, then maybe that only adds some additional caution to the mix and takes "exile" off the table ;p @the ending: I made the mistake of using Imgur after the leak, and people were being Billahs and just saying "[this happens]" in the comments on posts that had nothing to do with GoT. But, it was still cool to see. I am hoping that we'll find out more about what the Night King has been doing in the North. South of the Wall they've had lots of time to move around, but we've only seen that the NK has been collecting as many soldiers as possible. Maybe Samwise Gamgee or Bran will remind peeps that the Wall is protected by spells, and then they'll have to say something about what the NK has been working at to break those spells..
pillz Member	Mon Aug 21 03:38:45 Arya is playing Sansa and Littlefinger both, but she is trying to help Sansa. Sansa asked her two questions in pretty much the entire episode: Where did you get the note and what are the faces. She explained the faces thing, and then handed Sansa Littlefinger's dagger. Plus all of her warnings about Sansa's (lack of) safety from Littlefinger. Sansa, as ever, is the stupid one. I had initially thought she'd learn from all her experiences and the people she'd been pitted against or with, and she has, but shes still stupid. Removing Brienne doesn't really make Arya all that vulnerable, she bested her in single combat and she was a wild card. She threatened Littlefinger and his efforts to get between them without drawing attention to himself. But since Arya can wander around with different faces we can be sure she knows a lot more than they're letting on so far I think.
Asgard Member	Mon Aug 21 04:36:37 Nah man. They dumbed down Sansa and Arya and the audience as well.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Aug 21 04:48:21 [pillz]: "Arya is playing Sansa and Littlefinger both, but she is trying to help Sansa ... handed Sansa Littlefinger's dagger" Maybe, but Arya has had pretty open animosity towards Sansa. Arya has been accusing Sansa of scheming to kill Jon, and in the dagger scene it sounded like if Sansa had played Arya's game then Sansa may have been killed even for revealing that she'd like to be queen. There was no love or protection behind Arya's eyes in these exchanges — mostly just threats and calls for Sansa to admit to being a Cersei clone. Even handing over the dagger wasn't necessarily a nice gesture. Arya turned her back so there was no facial expression to read, but Sansa did not react well to that so there probably was not some hidden sibling reconciliation code there. It seemed more like Arya was toying with Sansa by showing Sansa that she could kill her any time she wants, even stealing any gains that Sansa might make by killing Sansa should she ever be crowned. Incidentally, Arya sort of pulled a Hannibal Lecter with that exchange: [Arya]: "the game of faces didn't turn out so well for the last person who asked me questions" (i.e., Arya killed the Waif) [Starling]: "Are you strong enough to point that high-powered perception at yourself? ..." [Hannibal]: "A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti." .. [pillz]: "Removing Brienne doesn't really make Arya all that vulnerable" I think it makes Arya more vulnerable to plans that Littlefinger can enact via Sansa. LF pointed out that Brienne would prevent any serious conflict between the sisters, so he had Brienne sent away, thus the sisters can now be in open conflict. It also means that neither of them has personal protection. If the lords decide to seize either Sansa or Arya (Arya more likely), the lords won't be impeded. Arya has become one of the top fighters on the show, but put her in a crowded room where she's accused of treason, and there might not be a fight. It might be similar to how LF tricked Ned into thinking that Ned could control the throne room with a fight, but the rug was pulled from under Ned; Littlefinger sending Brienne away means that he doesn't need to beat Arya on Arya's terms. .. "She threatened Littlefinger and his efforts to get between them without drawing attention to himself." Do you mean like the scene where Arya finds the scroll? Littlefinger knew that Arya was following him, and he knew she'd find the scroll, so that was under his control. He's been playing her openly since that scene where she looked up at him after her draw with Brienne. .. "But since Arya can wander around with different faces we can be sure she knows a lot more than they're letting on so far I think." I've wondered about this, but Arya can currently only wear the faces that she brought with her, and those anonymous faces would only get her so close to the action (hence her having to only observe and steal correspondence). If she wore a lord's face in order to get into an inner circle, then she'd have to have committed to killing that lord. That means she'd kill either Royce, Glover, or Littlefinger. I think she'd save that play for later, like if she could evade capture and return to entrap Sansa (like pose as Littlefinger and get Sansa to admit to wanting the crown). TLDR: Arya might be trying to help Sansa via some elaborate plan, but I don't think they've given evidence of that. It seems more like she sees that she's become more powerful than her sister and wants to hold it over Sansa's head, maybe even finding an excuse to kill Sansa.
chuck Member	Mon Aug 21 08:11:27 Littlefinger didn't send Brienne away though, he told Sansa to keep her close as her personal bodyguard. I guess you could read Sansa immediately doing the opposite as Littlefinger having known where he stood with Sansa these days and realizing it was opposite day :-). That could make sense from such a manipulative character. I think that Arya is more or less playing it straight. She's a stone cold killer but she has no experience with palace intrigue where the counterparties are people she knows and has feelings about. She's out of her element and genuinely, childishly lashing out. I'd give Sansa more credit in this department - this is what she has spent her time getting good at. That's why when she does exactly the opposite of what LF advises, I think she's foiling his plan, not falling into it. What was Littlefinger's plan with Brienne? I imagine if Brienne had witnessed something like the exchange in Arya's room she would have been compelled to do *something*. If they fight, one of Brienne or Arya doesn't make it and either outcome is good for LF since that's one less dogooder in his way. If they don't fight, that's one more witness to Arya's dangerous behavior who can help convince the Bannerman she's got to go. He would have preferred to play them off against each other IMO, and Sansa avoids that stratagem by sending her away.
hood Member	Mon Aug 21 08:27:44 CC, I don't know how you remember all these names!?!? Thoros dying may have changed the game for resurrection, but it's not like Beric is an important character so far. He's had what, 4-5 scenes? Maybe it'll become more important in the future, but at the moment it feels like an empty death compared to the other killings the show has given us. Had they left Jon's fate unknown at the end of the episode, one might think "Jon is dead, and FUCK that red priest Thoros isn't around to resurrect him!?!?" whereas without Thoros, it would have been an obvious "Jon dies. The Lord of Light resurrects him." Then you might feel the impact of Jon's near death. Thoros' death would have had a bit more meaning. As it stands, throwing away Benjin Stark was pointless. He was a placeholder early on in the show and showed up the once to save Bran. Meh. No big loss. And while ice dragon is cool, as is the true danger of the night king, color me unimpressed by how that went down. He threw an ice spear. Ok...? Sure it was an impressive throw in theory, but compared to a full on undead attack, kind of a let down. Maybe I'm just being too picky? "And I was *glad* they didn't kill Tormund!! Fuck you, Hood! ;D" I mean, I would have accepted the hound as a blood sacrifice, or Jora (who was wielding a pair of tiny ass daggers? REALLY?). I just wanted blood there. It seems dumb that the only named character to die in all of that was due to an undead bear. In fact, I'd have been fine with all the named characters getting out of the bear fight unscathed and then sacrifice Thoros during the undead swarming. It just doesn't seem realistic to have a pair of flunkies go out, yet nobody named was a casualty. ------------------ What I would have liked to see (but would change the story): Jon "dies" below the water. Bran wargs into him in an attempt to save Jon. The night king senses this and he and Bran start mind dueling. While this happens, Jon is stick within them as they jump around time and different locations. Bran ends up at Jon's birth and rescue by Ned, learns his true heritage. Then Bran attempts to evade the night king by going back to where he was created (a sort of hiding in plain sight type of gambit). But since Jon is there, things go wrong. The night king latches onto Jon. And suddenly the man who was first turned by the children becomes Jon and it is revealed that Jon is actually the night king. Dany now has to take up Jon's own war against her love, Jon, and one of her dragons. Bran realized what he has done, goes slightly insane. Steals one of Dany's dragons and attempts to take out Jon/night king. Dragon goes mia (i.e. Bran escapes while warging, but doesn't leave the dragon). Bran lies seemingly comatose irl.
Pillz Member	Mon Aug 21 15:45:23 K I got it. Sansa knows that Littlefinger gave Bran the dagger. Arya threatened her with it and then handed it to her and turned her back. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I'm pretty sure Arya hasn't been being played by Littlefinger, just like Sansa probably isn't either. I think we're seeing his ladder crumble.
Paramount Member	Mon Aug 21 15:52:24 How do we know that Arya is really Arya? The lights went off when Arya fought The Waif. Maybe The Waif killed Arya, took her face and put her own face in the Hall of Faces? If Arya was alive, wouldn't she have gone to Kings Landing to kill Cersei? But The Waif had no desire to continue with Arya's kill list. The Waif wanted a family and was curious to see how and where Arya lived so she went to Winterfell instead.
State Department Member	Mon Aug 21 16:00:05 :D > That feel when you are the Night King with your white walkers, sticking out like sore thumbs, and none of the 3 dragons try to dracarys you.
obaminated Member	Mon Aug 21 16:50:36 Fyi. Those daggers were obsidian thus being a lot more useful against zombies than his steel sword.
hood Member	Mon Aug 21 17:42:45 I know they were obsidian. It just was a bit ridiculous to have the knight of westeros fighting off a horde of zombies with itty bitty little daggers. The same dude that stood dutifully by Dany's side, knightishly protecting her from harm.
Pillz Member	Mon Aug 21 17:57:34 Ridiculous but pragmatic
Renzo Marquez Member	Mon Aug 21 18:19:29 Gay episode tbh
hood Member	Mon Aug 21 18:22:15 Couldn't he have had an obsidian sword?
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Aug 21 18:51:27 [chuck]: "Littlefinger didn't send Brienne away though, he told Sansa to keep her close as her personal bodyguard." [pillz]: "I think we're seeing [Littlefinger's] ladder crumble." Maybe we read that scene differently.. (my comments in parentheses after the quotations) [Sansa]: "[If Arya reveals the letter], by the time Jon comes back there will be no army left." [Littlefinger]: "Arya is not like [the Northern lords], she's your sister. You may have disagreements, but she would never betray her family." (tone like, "or would she?") [Sansa]: "She would if she thought I was going to betray Jon." [Littlefinger]: "Is that what she thinks?" (i.e., "we need to confirm that before acting.") [Sansa]: "I don't know what she thinks. I don't know her anymore." [Littlefinger]: "Perhaps Lady Brienne could help. She's sworn to protect *both* of Catelyn Stark's girls, is she not?" (leading tone; "we need to find out what Arya is thinking, and Brienne can be used to that end") [Sansa]: "She is." [Littlefinger]: "And if one of you were planning to harm the other in any way, wouldn't she be honor-bound to intercede?" (i.e., "we need to confirm whether or not Arya is a threat, but Arya won't make a fatal move if Brienne is present to protect you from each other.") [Sansa]: "She would." (tone and expression like she understands the strategy) In the tone of this conversation, I think Littlefinger wasn't talking about using Brienne as protection or a physical weapon against Arya — he knows that that could only result in a draw at best (no certainty in the outcome). And Littlefinger has no issue with Brienne; Brienne is extremely predictable, which makes her life very useful to him (vs. Arya the wildcard). To this point he's taught Sansa how to think strategically, so he was leading Sansa to the right conclusions: I think the subtext was that if Sansa wants to lay a trap for Arya then Brienne (an obstacle) needs to be absent. LF did this in the way he's always done: leading questions. By asking the right questions, he gets someone to make the same conclusions that he's already made, but that person thinks that the idea was her own. And it looks like this plan worked. Brienne is gone, and Sansa manufactures a private meeting with Arya. In that chamber scene, Arya admitted that she thinks that Sansa wants the throne for herself, and Arya threatened Sansa in concrete terms (Arya took that to the brink of outright murdering Sansa; a big confirmation of Arya's thought processes), so now Sansa knows that Arya *would* betray her, so Arya has established herself to be a threat. I do think that Sansa will outgrow Littlefinger once she understands fully how to use his process for herself, but she's not there yet, so she's still letting him lead her. .. [hood]: "CC, I don't know how you remember all these names!?!?" I *do* have to look them up sometimes, but after marathoning the series the first time and not being able to keep up with the names and their relevance, I made sure to look up names during a second viewing :D .. [hood]: "Jora (who was wielding a pair of tiny ass daggers? REALLY?)" [obaminated]: "Fyi. Those daggers were obsidian thus being a lot more useful against zombies than his steel sword." Yeah it looked like he had the right idea! :D Even the Hound realized that the giant hammer was useless against undead. He must have noticed that the dragon glass daggers were actually working, so he himself switched to [what looked like] small dragon glass weapons. .. [hood]: "Couldn't he have had an obsidian sword?" Maybe if their blacksmith had decided to make weapons instead of attempting to be a hero! ;p .. I'm guessing that daggers were all that they could make on such short notice. .. [hood]: "What I would have liked to see (but would change the story)" Too much magic too fast? :D I think a positive move the show-writers have taken is to downplay some of Martin's magic plots in order to make the show grittier or more realistic, and they haven't done the groundwork yet to show the full extent of Bran's magic without breaking that in-show continuity. There does need to be some kind of time battle between Bran and the NK, but I think Bran is immune to insanity at this point; he just fulfills his role in the big picture. Bran may turn out to be the original 3-eyed raven and maybe even the builder of the Wall, but I think the NK's identity is fixed (a warg of the first men?). Plus, Jon and Danny haven't even made out, so it would have been too soon for them to have to fight each other like Dido and Aeneas ;D .. [hood]: "Had they left Jon's fate unknown at the end of the episode ... Then you might feel the impact of Jon's near death." True! This might be another case of the 7-episode season killing some of the drama. Ending the episode with Jon falling into the lake might have been too paralleled with Jaime's drowning, but with Jaime it was immediately clear that he'd be okay whereas with Jon the added element of it being freezing water and him having no friends around would have made audiences doubt his chances (though Jon does seem to have plot armor at least until Bran tells Jon his lineage). Plus, peeps could wonder if Jon was resurrected and drawn north in part so that Danny would rush there on his behalf — without him there she wouldn't have saved the rest of the group (including the dead man as evidence) or given a dragon to the NK. She *might* have done it for Jorah, but Jorah wouldn't have sent a raven.
Pillz Member	Mon Aug 21 19:05:36 Houses destroyed so far: Tyrell Martell Tarly (Fatty isn't a valid heir) Bolton Frey On the brink: Greyjoy, Baratheon, Aryn, Clegane, Tully, Targaryan 3 member club: Lannister, Stark Seems in the books the only four houses I remember being destroyed before the war of 5 kings were whoever inhabited Haranhal(sp), Castamere, Gardner, and blackfyre?
Pillz Member	Mon Aug 21 19:07:32 Note: I know Gendry is a bastard but he's obviously bandwagoning the whole bastards can be kings thing for a later reveal. I don't think fatty leaves the nights watch (unless of course they destroy the NK and the nights watch is dissolved)
obaminated Member	Mon Aug 21 20:27:35 Samwell Tarly is going back to serve Jon Snow who is a King now. Jon can declare Samwell lawful heir to Horn Hill because can deliver more fighting men as Lord rather than a claimless guy on the wall. Plus Sam has gilly and her baby, he can't really go back to the nights watch, his life has changed too much.
obaminated Member	Mon Aug 21 20:29:53 Otherwise a pretty accurate statement. You could add Dondarrion as well.
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 00:58:35 not at episode 6 yet, only episode 3. but this is what happens when moniez and greed take over. why is season 7 only 6 episodes and not 14 episode like previous seasons? so we waited a whole fuckin year only to get 6 worthless episodes? coz right fuckin now at episode 3, i can only say this shit is massively disappointin so far!!! boy were those 3 episodes disappointin. what happened 2 the socalled alliance? dorne, greyjoys, tyrels, targarean, unsullied...this shit lasted literally just 1 episode. by next episode they were already dead!!??? killin off keycharacters in just 1 episode ...wtf? and the stark kids cant act 4 shit. and john snow is a horrible actor. he looked like a little boy in front of denerys... "u got work 2 do john snow" and off he goes like a servant. what is he then, servant of the north? rickon stark, good 2 see u sansa. arya stark hey fatboy, good 2 see ya, but i gotta go now. not one of them starks can act 4 shit.
pillz Member	Tue Aug 22 02:04:12 The first Bran used hiss voodoo magic to warg into the the guy that became the Night King, and has been resurrecting himself ever since to try and stop him!
pillz Member	Tue Aug 22 02:05:17 lol @ CC I guess when you break down the conversation that way it does make a lot of sense. And I wonder how many people Cersei kills in the finale?
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 02:40:37 this season has been a major letdown so far. what a shitty season so far...3 episodes left. will i be disappoint. will find out 2day...
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Aug 22 05:14:09 [The Children]: "why is season 7 only 6 episodes and not 14 episode like previous seasons?" Season 1-6 were all 10 episodes each, season 7 will have 7 episodes (finale is this Sunday, slated for 81 minutes), and season 8 has been planned for 6 episodes. Angry book fans think that episode cuts were because the writers don't have enough source material, but that's just blind elitism talking; writers can always stretch plots lines and these writers have plenty that they could stretch, so I think the major reason is cost and scheduling. The show's popularity has increased HBO's revenue, but they've also started hemorrhaging money to keep the current cast on board. Into this season almost all of the primary cast renegotiated to have pay raised from less than $400k to about $2.6million per episode. That's a major incentive to have fewer episodes. A similar situation happened with Star Trek: TNG. Long-running, popular shows tend to get too expensive to maintain. Expectations go up, which means higher production costs (more money into effects, sets, locations, crews, benefits), more expensive casts (the cast knows that fans would complain if they were re-cast, so they can demand more of producers), and more expensive negotiations in general (most everyone, even catering companies, see the show's name and expect to get paid a lot). A more popular cast also means that the cast is looking for other work (big movie deals, show spots, etc.), which means it's more difficult to schedule their time. Basically the show gets more and more expensive and difficult to produce on a seasonal schedule, so the producers want to eject the show before it ends up costing more than they make. I think the trick that producers should adopt is to shamelessly re-cast actors every season by teaching their stunt doubles to act ;D .. [pillz]: "lol @ CC I guess when you break down the conversation that way it does make a lot of sense." I might have over done it, but Arya has been so mean lately that it's difficult to give her any slack ;p
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 06:24:04 its fuckin crazy how much they r earning. wtf 2.6mill per. thats like 20 mill 1 season. :( all the more reason 2 quickly end this bullshit. storywise, i just finished episode 6. what a stupid season. what we supposed 2 believe this magical love between denearies and john snow now. wtf, they cousins man. not 2 mention the fact that they only know eachother for like a few min. and u know the worst crime of this show? the instant teleportations. it started last season when u saw varyss, dorne, tyrels and all them on the same ships. now this season, its just gone ridibeyondridiculous... the instaportations happen everywhere now. 1 moment she is in dragonstone, the next moment, she is roasting the lannister armies. they spend 2 episode travellin beyond the wall, she gets there in 3 seconds. one moment they r in dragonstone, the next they r in kingslanding, and back... its crazy. borderline retarded
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Aug 22 12:16:29 I finally got around to watching the last episode. Hard to believe how dumb this show has become. Remember how he complained about the slow pace and how nothing was happening? I'm almost nostalgic for those times. Nothing was plausible in this episode, culminated by the appearance of the retarded uncle Benjen, they found one more use for him.
Paramount Member	Tue Aug 22 12:31:30 When Martin has finished the books they should remake the the last 2-3 seasons and make them as they are supposed 2 be.
pillz Member	Tue Aug 22 12:47:02 I find it hard to believe that they didn't shoot substantially more footage than this... Also yes, the fact that it took all of what, a single day, for Gendry to run back to the wall, a raven to fly to dragonstone, and then Danny to fly out to the frozen lake. "Everyone has SPEED FORCE - a DC Comics/HBO event"
Forwyn Member	Tue Aug 22 12:51:50 Read a guy's summary of the very general math involved in the refreezing of the lake and the travel times involved, and came out to around 5 days, with a few assumptions - initial trek zig-zagged to find wights, raven travels 28-30mph, and dragon flies 100+. If such is the case, it would have added to the scenes to show how much time had passed, with exhaustion and hunger taking their toll.
hood Member	Tue Aug 22 13:12:49 Yeah the pacing of that scene didn't seem too off. They never made camp on the hike up north, potentially implying it was only a day of travel. Gendry ran straight back. A day of walking might net you anywhere between 10-30 miles, probably skewing towards the lower end due to elements. A decent runner can finish 10 miles in like 80 minutes. Let's spot Gendry 3 hours of run time. Then the Raven flys south to dragonstone. While this is probably going to be like a 1500 mile flight, we can assume it takes 2 days or so. Dragon will cover that in a matter of hours. They did show the gang waking up from sleep, so they certainly implied that time passed. 2 days and some change? Wasn't directly indicated. But it's not that big of a discontinuity.
Paramount Member	Tue Aug 22 13:23:59 Well, what matters is that they got out of there alive and are safe and sound now.
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 13:25:52 " A decent runner can finish 10 miles in like 80 minutes. Let's spot Gendry 3 hours of run time. " >> hahaha i dunt think usain bolt can run 3 hours in the artic...wtf are u smoking. also, how do u explain a small fishin boat with the onion knight and a dwarf reachin kingslanding and back in a day. it took stannis 3 seasons to reach kingslanding... the show has gone 2 hell. the drunk priest died like a bitch. didnt even had a last line. just died overnight. why did they burn him. i thought they wanted a whitewalker as proof, why wasnt he allowed 2 turn. how did a raven fly 2 dragonstone and the dragons fly to the frozen lake in a day. thats bullshit. how did the nightking shoot down a dragon. boy, his arms mustve been the strongest arms in westeros rivalling giant scorpions... u know the hound, priest and that dead guy with 1 eye? they was in a group called rebel without cause, i think that was the name. whatever. anyway, how come there was only 3 of them in the prison...i thought they were a large group of several hundred men. is denearys a hypergamy bitch? how come she luvs mormont in 1 episode, sleeps with the other guy back in mereen, now holds hands with jon snow. told u all, even in fantasy worlds, mgtow is the best fuckin way for any men. bitches today are hypergamy whores.
Paramount Member	Tue Aug 22 13:33:34 U ask too many questions.
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 13:33:45 oh and big bad euron is suddenly the big bad invincible warlord now. weve seen him only in 1 episode, he is killin everyone now. how the fuck does sea bandits like the greyjoys gets surprised in the sea like that... they just killed off allies with huge armies in less than 5 min of screentime. they was droppin like flies. how come arya is acting like a total bitch. even rickon stark...u wuld think they wuld be more happy finally being home and all and with there families, yet they act like as if theyve seen eachother yesterday...just bad acting or bad script or what. how come john snow hates littlefinger. he has never met him before. how could he know he is a scheming manipulative bastard? how come varyss didnt vouch for ned stark. how come dragonstone was never shown in its full glory during stannis the mannis...it was always shown 2 us as a dark place with no joy. now its suddenly this glorious fortress... how come that fortress wasnt manned...stannis went out with his armies which he bought. surely there were maidens, housekeepers, stableboys, farmers etc left. ned stark didnt leave winterfell abandonned? why the fuck wuld stannis then. why they hating on stannis the mannis...
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 13:38:11 how come sansa is scheming with littlefinger now... the fuck? them bitches aint loyal
Paramount Member	Tue Aug 22 13:45:02 What happened to Euron anyway? We haven't seen him since he crushed all those armies and kidnapped those women. He gave two of the women to Cersei but what happened to the third woman, the lesbian warrior? Did he kill her? And where is Euron?
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 13:48:05 clearly he is gonna torture her or set a trap for little theon...he is a sideshow. it just sucks 2 see a new character kill off all the old characters...
hood Member	Tue Aug 22 13:50:24 "hahaha i dunt think usain bolt can run 3 hours in the artic...wtf are u smoking." Dude, I've run 10 miles in less time. In blinding blizzards, in extreme cold. Not in that clothing, but definitely in similar conditions. As I said, giving Gendry 3 hours to run what was likely 10-15 miles isn't at all unreasonable. That's pretty fucking slow. The only thing remotely unreasonable about that scene was how fast the raven flew to dragonstone. It should have taken at least a full day, if not 2. But condensing 2 nights of sitting on a frozen rock in the middle of a lake into just 1 night is not a big deal. Your bitch-whining about other stuff is completely unrelated to the point I made.
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 14:14:44 stfu, u also swam half the world in a day. u can jump 40 feet into the sky and in ur spare time, u dunt walk. u fly. are u a cuck. then why find cuckexcuses for instaportation crap. sitting on a frozen lake for several days with no food, no fire is no big deal? lol if that was real, all 7 of them wuldve frozen to death in just 4 hours. ur delusional lol.
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 14:17:54 i dunt think u understand how fast u wuld die from cold without food, movement and fire. also jon snow fell into a frozen lake. if u fall inside a frozen lake, u die in just 2 min in real life. keyboard warrior lmao. lets say he got out the lake in 1 min, sure hes got a horse but no fire and frozen wet clothes...no more than 5 min and ur dead i think... let alone all the way back to the castle.
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 14:24:25 hmm about the 2 min, might have exaggerated a bit, but u get the idea. "If an average person were to plunge in 0-4°C water unprepared, they would be lucky to survive the first 10 minutes. This is where the 10 minute number you speak of might have originated. The "less than 10 minutes" number is often publicized by many water safety groups to advise people to take care on newly frozen lakes. In the context I just stated, 10 minutes is valid. The death would likely be from drowning, asphyxiation from a Laryngospasm, their inability to handle the human cold shock response, or just plain and simple panic. Make no mistake, the plunge is traumatic. I've felt it first hand. However with a little training, it would be likely 15-20 minutes before you are medically hypothermic and likely conscious for 30 minutes." >> so lets say, they didnt had food for a day, they were outside for 2 days which means they are already extremely cold. now he falls into the lake. lets say thats also a few min, i mean the army of the dead was still there... so now he wuld be in shock. theres no way his horse wuldve carried him back to the castle within 5 min... he shuld be dead. so stop being a cuck and start acceptin the truth. the show sucks now.
hood Member	Tue Aug 22 14:34:51 Tell me, what does the reality of Jon snow surviving a frozen lake have to do with the time frame between telling Gendry to send a Raven and the time that the dragons arrive? Oh, nothing? That's right, go fuck yourself you retarded cunt.
The Children Member	Tue Aug 22 14:42:33 r u as retarded as u sound. so gendry ran 3 hours in cold blizzard assuming that the distance is really just 3 hours way...they was travelling to a fuckin mountain in 2 episodes to the point where the giant wall wasnt even visible anymore in the horizon. are u dumb or did ur brain just shrink several sizes?
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Aug 22 18:48:41 [TC]: "also, how do u explain a small fishin boat with the onion knight and a dwarf reachin kingslanding and back in a day. [/] it took stannis 3 seasons to reach kingslanding..." Dragonstone is *very* close to King's Landing, so that distance was not an issue for Davos and Tyrion. It *was* an issue for Stannis because he had to prepare forces, see which houses would side with him, and stop his brother, whose forces were camped in a strategically competitive location. .. [TC]: "why did they burn him. i thought they wanted a whitewalker as proof, why wasnt he allowed 2 turn." They already had a walker as proof, and that walker was already tied up. I don't imagine that anyone there would have liked to see Thoros turn into a walker just so that they'd have two dead people as proof. A similar argument can be made for why they didn't let the Night's Watch soldiers killed by the bear turn and just bring them back: they probably don't want to see their friends and allies turned. .. [TC]: "how did the nightking shoot down a dragon. boy, his arms mustve been the strongest arms in westeros rivalling giant scorpions..." Not too unbelievable that a white walker who was alive at the time of the first wars between the Children and humans would have acquired some inhuman strength. .. [TC]: "anyway, how come there was only 3 of them in the prison...i thought they were a large group of several hundred men." I think the winter started breaking up the last of the Brotherhood into its core group. They had 100 men when Ed sent Beric to kill the Mountain, but it's been maybe 6 years since then, so their numbers have dwindled. .. [TC]: "is denearys a hypergamy bitch? how come she luvs mormont in 1 episode, sleeps with the other guy back in mereen, now holds hands with jon snow." It all makes sense, really. - Jorah was there with her from the beginning, but he's stuck in the friend zone because of his age. - Daario was more of a sexual object and rebound after Drogo. Never any love there. He did apparently let Danny realize that she's incapable of having children, but that could just be because *he* is infertile? - Jon is the first person of Danny's age that she's met in Westeros, and he's had similar experiences. His (very likely) being Targaryen also means that she sees something familiar in him already (Electra Complex maybe) .. [TC]: "how the fuck does sea bandits like the greyjoys gets surprised in the sea like that..." Complacency and maybe a sense that they had no opponents on the sea. They were going to war, but they had their armor off. .. [TC]: "how come arya is acting like a total bitch. even rickon stark..." Rickon died before the Battle of the Bastards. If you mean Bran, it's because more and more knowledge can increase a person's indifference towards everything. Someone in UP mentioned Dr. Manhattan — that fits. And Arya's only frame of reference is childhood relationships. She hated Sansa's advantages when they were children, but now Arya thinks that she's become better than Sansa and can torment Sansa with that power. .. [TC]: "how come john snow hates littlefinger. he has never met him before. how could he know he is a scheming manipulative bastard?" 5 minutes in a room with Littlefinger is probably enough to know that he's a creeper. LF was already very inappropriately visiting Jon in the family crypt while Jon mourned, then LF quickly changed the topic to marrying Sansa (Jon's only family as far as he knew, whom Jon knows was betrayed previously by LF by her marriage to Ramsay) as a reward for bringing the Vale to Winterfell. LF made it easy for Jon to hate him. .. [TC]: "how come varyss didnt vouch for ned stark." Are you talking about Season 1? Varys was in no position to vouch for Ned. Varys was able to convince Ned to swear fealty to Joffrey, but with Cersei in power it was pointless for him to try to say that Ned was telling the truth. She knows the truth, so it would just be a death sentence. .. [TC]: "how come dragonstone was never shown in its full glory during stannis the mannis.." Budget. For Stannis they only had to pay for one room, but with the increasing budget of the show they were able to afford to show the exteriors. They were also able to afford to show Casterly Rock and Highgarden finally. .. [TC]: "how come that fortress wasnt manned...stannis went out with his armies which he bought. surely there were maidens, housekeepers, stableboys, farmers etc left ... ned stark didnt leave winterfell abandonned? why the fuck wuld stannis then." Dragonstone was not Stannis' ancestral seat; it was just a strategic location for him. Stannis took his entire household and army north of the Wall and then to Winterfell. If any people were left in Dragonstone, they were probably squatters. If they saw a Dothraki and Unsullied army landing, they'd probably want to leave immediately. .. [TC]: "how come sansa is scheming with littlefinger now..." He betrayed her, but he also gave her a chance to recruit the Blackfish and also gave her the Vale. She wouldn't forget the betrayal, but she also knows that he's a powerful advisor. .. [TC]: "sitting on a frozen lake for several days with no food, no fire is no big deal?" All of them were carrying packs, so it's reasonable to conclude that they had food in those packs. They were also huddling for warmth through the night, and the NK couldn't get close enough to just freeze them. .. [TC]: "also jon snow fell into a frozen lake. if u fall inside a frozen lake, u die in just 2 min in real life." Jon also probably has Targaryen blood, which means some hidden warmth. And consider Melisandre, who was walking around in thin clothes and had warm hands even when at Castle Black while watchmen were freezing next to their fire pits. It's not a stretch that the Lord of Light or Jon's Targ blood would save him.
The Children Member	Wed Aug 23 01:57:25 come to think of it, how come the hound never smashed the ice surroundin the rock so that there is always water between them and the dead... how come the nightking didnt throw some of those spears at the humans. they wuldve been sitting ducks. surely if he shoot a dragon out of the frikkin sky, he can make quick work out of some hungry and cold humans... show sucks.
The Children Member	Wed Aug 23 03:58:45 we have seen the whitewalkers freeze shit in previous episodes. how come the nightking didnt freeze the water like he does shuttin down fire... show sucks
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Aug 23 06:07:39 [TC]: "how come the hound never smashed the ice surroundin the rock so that there is always water between them and the dead..." That might be kind of a short-term strategy. They themselves might need to escape and there was talk of charging the NK before they died from the cold, so doing some construction project with the ice might only trap them — it would be a last stand moment, which is how the Hound ended up using it. .. [TC]: "how come the nightking didnt throw some of those spears at the humans. they wuldve been sitting ducks. surely if he shoot a dragon out of the frikkin sky, he can make quick work out of some hungry and cold humans..." The Night King has been shown to have Bran's seer abilities (like how he knew to wait outside the tree in the future so that he could grab Bran's hand), so he could either.. 1) Kill the group with spears from a distance and get nothing out of their deaths except a few more soldiers for his army 2) Not kill them and wait for Danny to commit to a rescue, in which case he gets a free dragon. That is, he did not kill them because he knew that keeping them alive would mean Danny would bring him a dragon. It's also further possible that he needs those particular survivors to do more work for him in the South, like stirring up conflict with Cersei and killing off more living defenses. I still think that the Night King has been secretly turning people against each other through the gods, like maybe messing with Melisandre's visions. .. [TC]: "how come the nightking didnt freeze the water like he does shuttin down fire..." I'm pretty sure that the army was sitting there waiting for the NK to finish doing exactly that. That is, his presence was freezing the water, and they were waiting for the water to freeze so that it would be safe to cross again. Or, if he did *not* accelerate the freezing of the water, it would be again because he knows that he just needs to wait for the dragons to show up. Another, similar question peeps on Imgur asked: "Why didn't the dragons just burn the Night King?" The dragons arrived to protect Jon's crew, not to win a war. But, even if they *had* gone for the NK, that would have been a terrible decision as it turns out. If Bronn can hit a dragon as it flies towards him, then the NK certainly can too.
The Children Member	Wed Aug 23 07:00:13 hmm alot of ifs and buts... i just call it bad script/ writing.
McKobb Member	Wed Aug 23 07:30:23 The main question is why won't GRRM get off his ass and write his books? Nothing much from this season will make it into them as they made the whole frozen lake thing up themselves.
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Aug 23 08:08:55 The whole operation Beyond the Wall is special dumb. They are going to parade a wight in front of Cercei Lannister and ...? Who writes such things? The idea that a sight of a zombie will achieve this outcome is nonsensical. Such lazy, unimaginative writing
The Children Member	Wed Aug 23 08:59:16 "When looking at a map of Blackwater Bay, it doesn't seem like a very far journey. However, when Davos is helping Gendry escape, he tells him it will be at least a full days rowing in order for him to get to Rook's Rest, we get an idea of the size." >> ha! i knew it. so going 2 kingslanding and back wuldve taken a week if not more. i watched the last 2 episodes again. man beyond the wall is crazy. artic winds, icecold temperatures, a man running around in there wuldnt last long. let alone sitting on some rock in the middle of a lake with no shelter. varyss didnt vouch 4 ned stark. targaryan girl was accusin ned stark of sending assassins after her. but varys was there, he knew. ned stark defender her. sir jora mormomt healed overnight aswell... just bugs the shit out of me. shit just aint right u know. a show where it took 5 seasons for dragons 2 grow up...but everyone has instaportation devices now.
hood Member	Wed Aug 23 09:26:36 "man beyond the wall is crazy. artic winds, icecold temperatures, a man running around in there wuldnt last long." All I'm reading is that Londoners are complete fucking pussies. With the number of layers they were all wearing, it would have been chilly but easily manageable to walk around up north. "targaryan girl was accusin ned stark of sending assassins after her." No, she was accusing Robert Baratheon of sending assassins. "sir jora mormomt healed overnight aswell..." Magic exists in westeros. It was explicitly stated that Sam put on a healing salve (referred to as ointment) on the wounds from Sam slicing off the infected skin. There's nothing crazy here. Skin was removed, ointment was applied (and we can assume it's more than just a pain killer, it likely has magic properties), Jora's skin had scabbed over and begin healing. I've taken a bunch of skin off in an injury. Overnight is not unreasonable to start making scabs even without magic ointment. I think you might just be retarded.
chuck Member	Wed Aug 23 11:02:46 Gotta agree with CR and Pillz on this. The timing of rescue was a bit too precious and just-so for me. "Impossibly terrible thing happens. No hope!" "Even more impossibly amazing thing happens. Hooray!" That's weak storytelling. It's stupid to create these crazy high stakes just to sloppily resolve it with an even more improbable event. I really like the show generally but this episode was lame. Dragons vs zombies is cool no doubt but don't burn my six years of investment to give me the fan service!
The Children Member	Wed Aug 23 13:02:00 hood = confirmed a cuck cucks just wanna believe.
Forwyn Member	Wed Aug 23 13:08:44 "The idea that a sight of a zombie will achieve this outcome is nonsensical. Such lazy, unimaginative writing" In what way? How else are you going to convince someone hundreds of miles away that zombies are marching south, other than to show them an actual zombie? My issue is that the Lannister army isn't really needed. They had the right idea with a small strike force; but aim it at the WWs. Obsidian arrows, WW assassins. War over
obaminated Member	Wed Aug 23 13:11:54 The entire thesis of the show has been about human on human conflict while ignoring a universal threat. In this case the universal threat are ice demons who bring back the dead. The point is humanity can only stop this universal threat if they unite together and stop playing the game of thrones amongst each other.
The Children Member	Wed Aug 23 13:16:45 she dunt care even if its real. she is down south, where its warm and a fortress. if the dead r real, its the norths problem. so yea, its bullshit writing.
obaminated Member	Wed Aug 23 13:21:58 I think the reason the night king didn't kill drogon, and thereby everyone on his back, because he knows if he did then humanity would unite against him as Cersie and Jaime would lead the charge. Whereas if they escape Cersie and Dany will continue to plot against each other.
obaminated Member	Wed Aug 23 13:22:21 Because the nights king can see the future like Mel and jojen
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Aug 23 14:35:05 "In what way? How else are you going to convince someone hundreds of miles away that zombies are marching south, other than to show them an actual zombie? " Cercei has a zombie in her employment, no shock value here. But the main issue is her character, there is no way Cercei suspends hostilities towards Starks, Targaryens, etc just because zombies are marching down south. I think she'll try to make a deal with Night King before forming an alliance with Daenerys ffs. It is not like the issue here is Cercei lack of faith in White Walkers being real. Even if she is 100% sure that they are real, it is not even close to being a guarantee that she will help Jon and Daenerys. That's what makes the plan of kidnapping one zombie so retarded
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Aug 23 14:44:12 Put is this way, for all the slow pace during prior seasons, there was cause+effect, there were reasons behind things. Now there are only cool battle scenes. Everything else is lazy implausible trash. Sometimes they use magic to explain the implausible parts, but lately they don't even bother
hood Member	Wed Aug 23 14:57:25 Dany and Jon don't know Cersei. They don't realize she's impervious to reason. Even Tyrion probably doesn't get how far gone she is.
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Aug 23 15:03:35 Even better, they don't know Cercei but still hatch a crazy plan. Going beyond the Wall is suicidal, Jon can easily get killed, and become a zombie. But who cares. You see how easily Daenerys recovered after losing a dragon, her "child".
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Aug 23 15:06:07 She was in almost physical pain when two dragons were chained in that bunker, it was such a tragedy for her. Now, one child dies, speared by that stupid javelin, and Daenerys is fine. A tear, maybe
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Aug 23 15:07:37 And who the fuck was that guy who fell to the zombies and got eaten? Just a wildling?
Rugian Member	Wed Aug 23 15:22:10 I'm with CR here, the whole expedition idea is beyond retarded. Ignoring the insane amount of risk involved, Cersei is an unknown quantity and there's no guarantee that she'd form an alliance against the NK, especially since the Wall is still intact. Also, why is Jon such a micromanaging fuckhead that he needs to personally go? Why do the Brotherhood guys want to participate? Why the fuck does none of this make any sense? I hope GRRM chokes on a chicken wing. His failure to complete the series by this time and forcing those untalented D&D hacks to move forward on their own is unforgivable.
obaminated Member	Wed Aug 23 15:51:35 Cersie doesn't think the mountain is a zombie. And he probably isn't. Qyburn gave him some sort of lobotomy.
Paramount Member	Wed Aug 23 17:21:38 Yeah, Daenerys barely lifted an eyebrow or moved a lip when her "child" died. She didn't scream of sorrow or anger or anything. She was just like, okay, my dragon child died. I don't know if that was bad acting or bad script. Maybe both. The reason why they did the expedition is because the writers wanted to make a zombie bear. All that special effects also cost so much so that's why this season is shorter. They wasted all the moneyes on the zombie bear and shit. And, guess what. That frozen lake was fake! It was concrete floor. The writers also thought it was funny to make Jon, the brotherhood, the hound, Jora and Thormund go on the expedition. They called it The Dirty Dozen. Basically, the writers are only fking around with the story now that the end is near, because "it's funny". Watch this: http://youtu.be/yx9dRL1BCCQ There's no spoilers in that video so don't worry. They only tell about the Frozen Lake scene, the zombie bear, the dragon, and Iceland, etc.
Renzo Marquez Member	Wed Aug 23 18:25:01 Rugian Member Wed Aug 23 15:22:10 "untalented D&D hacks" (((untalented D&D hacks)))
Rugian Member	Wed Aug 23 18:41:35 "Benioff was born David Friedman in New York City, to a Jewish family with roots in Romania, Austria, Poland and Russia.[1] He is the son of Barbara (Benioff) and Stephen Friedman, who is a former head of Goldman Sachs." Of fucking course.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Aug 23 19:30:28 [CrownRoyal]: "The whole operation Beyond the Wall is special dumb. They are going to parade a wight in front of Cercei Lannister and ...? Who writes such things? The idea that a sight of a zombie will achieve this outcome is nonsensical. Such lazy, unimaginative writing" [Forwyn]: "In what way? How else are you going to convince someone hundreds of miles away that zombies are marching south, other than to show them an actual zombie?" [obaminated]: "The entire thesis of the show has been about human on human conflict while ignoring a universal threat. In this case the universal threat are ice demons who bring back the dead. The point is humanity can only stop this universal threat if they unite together and stop playing the game of thrones amongst each other." [CrownRoyal]: "Cercei has a zombie in her employment, no shock value here ... Even if she is 100% sure that they are real, it is not even close to being a guarantee that she will help Jon and Daenerys." A far different kind of zombie. When Jaime told her about the army of the dead she even laughed at the idea, so clearly she does not think that they're the same thing. And like obaminated said, there has been *huge* precedent for this very idea: the idea that a threat exists that no one believes until it is too late. From the very first episode. And the idea has persisted with so many examples throughout the series that it would be a lengthy catalogue of proofs. So if you want to blame the writers for this "unimaginative" portion of the show, put it square on George Martin and stop pretending that this central idea is somehow a departure. Also, bringing a white walker to King's Landing is not *just* about Cersei. If they show a white walker to *court* (an audience of lords, commanders, and the people), then Cersei is not in a position to doubt; if she somehow openly doubts the evidence, then she will secure her own death. If she doubts via her stated policies, her people will probably not follow her, or Jaime will have to kill her — again, an idea that was built from the earliest moments of the series. And it is true that Cersei will probably agree to the armistice while still plotting to secure her throne, but even then she would still have very likely committed troops to the white walker cause, so it's *still* worth it to Jon and Danny to deal with her despite her duplicity. She may even purchase the Golden Army for the white walker war, so it's not like she has nothing to offer. If there's not a massacre at the armistice meeting, then probably Cersei will help them (or pretend to) and then later make some bad move like killing Danny once she thinks that the alliance has run its course. .. [CrownRoyal]: "You see how easily Daenerys recovered after losing a dragon, her "child"." [Paramount]: "Yeah, Daenerys barely lifted an eyebrow or moved a lip when her 'child' died. She didn't scream of sorrow or anger or anything. She was just like, okay, my dragon child died." We are definitely watching a different show. Danny was clearly distraught. She was in shock when it happened (for such a long time that she was putting herself in great danger), and she was breaking into tears when Jon brought it up. That ship scene was also well-directed because while at the end of the conversation she had a moment where she started looking at Jon with passionate eyes, she again brought herself back to the fact that she had just lost her dragon and that it was therefore not an appropriate time to fall in love. Also keep in mind that she's a queen; she may cry privately, but she still has to be strong if she wants to succeed. That is, she probably won't be shown outright sobbing and falling apart, but she is still affected by the loss. .. [Rugian]: "Also, why is Jon such a micromanaging fuckhead that he needs to personally go?" He, Tormund, and Eddison Tollett were the only fighters that personally saw the Night King, Tormund isn't exactly diplomatic enough to convince a northbound team that they're real, and Jon might be the only one that saw that the Night King can just raise his arms to resurrect people into his army. If he contracts this job to a subordinate, then he would be sending someone on a mission which that person may not even believe in or understand, which could doom it to failure. Also, Jon is not ready to send other people to their deaths if he cannot fight alongside them. He also happens to be one of the few people in the kingdom with a Valerian steel sword, and he has the confidence that he can wield it against an ice weapon (to this effect, notice that he was fully comfortable going right for the white walker commander when they attacked that smaller group — who else would have had that confidence?). .. [Rugian]: "Why do the Brotherhood guys want to participate?" ..Do you really not know? They've had probably five or six scenes that outright explained why the Brotherhood feels that going over the Wall to fight the white walkers is a calling for them, not to mention that the entire idea of the Brotherhood Without Banners is to protect people from real threats (e.g., white walkers) that need to be addressed despite the conflicting orders of kings and queens. .. [TC]: "varyss didnt vouch 4 ned stark. targaryan girl was accusin ned stark of sending assassins after her. but varys was there, he knew. ned stark defender her." [hood]: "No, she was accusing Robert Baratheon of sending assassins." That does sound familiar.. I thought Danny had a scene where she speculated that Jon's father had been complicit with Baratheon's orders to kill her. I couldn't find it, though. .. [TC]: "sir jora mormomt healed overnight aswell..." Not *literally* overnight, but I agree that they did skip a lot of time there without showing it. There were probably a few weeks or a month between those episodes.. Jon was also able to arrive at Dragonstone after having just been in Winterfell the previous episode. I'll defend the show when it comes to character and plot continuity because I think they've kept that in order, but they have definitely been skipping too much time ($$$). .. [Paramount]: "The reason why they did the expedition is because the writers wanted to make a zombie bear ... The writers also thought it was funny to make Jon, the brotherhood, the hound, Jora and Thormund go on the expedition. They called it The Dirty Dozen." That seems a pretty willful misinterpretation of their meaning. They mention that they've wanted to have a zombie polar bear on the show for four seasons but that they previously could not afford it, *not* that they wrote this trip north as an excuse to render one. Similarly one of them mentioned the Dirty Dozen, but he in no way indicated that this team was written together simply to create a Dirty Dozen situation. Seems like a lot of Hater-Ade being drunk in this thread ;)
Renzo Marquez Member	Wed Aug 23 19:39:47 Cherub Cow Member Wed Aug 23 19:30:28 "Seems like a lot of Hater-Ade being drunk in this thread ;)" The episode sucked bruh.
hood Member	Wed Aug 23 19:49:33 The zombie bear was pretty dumb though. There's no arguing that one.
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Aug 23 20:19:47 If during the next episode startship Enterprise lands in Winterfell and Jon enlists Batman's help vs the White Walkers, CC will trash all the haters just the same, because you know, it is not particularly implausible:)
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Aug 24 00:10:54 [CR]: "If during the next episode startship Enterprise lands in Winterfell and Jon enlists Batman's help vs the White Walkers, CC will trash all the haters just the same, because you know, it is not particularly implausible:)" There's a precedent! If you'll recall S2-E11, Jon sent a raven to the sarlacc pit where Harry Potter used a photon torpedo to escape. In the end of credits scene, we see that the torpedo was made of adamantium, which as we all know, was used to construct the Lexx. Adamantium torpedoes use raven-propulsion technology, and as per S1-E12, the raven driving the torpedo was the cousin of the one that Jon sent to the sarlacc pit! Thus, before exiting the galaxy, the torpedo raven, Kaw McKawFace, used an infinity stone to disable the torpedo range limits, and it used the spice to transport Thar McKawFace onto the torpedo. When the Daleks left Mereen in S4-E11, they mention that they encountered the torpedo in the Delta Quadrant, where Kim Possible, Jon's cousin, was arrested selling unobtainium to Malcolm Reynolds. Scorpius held her in the Phantom Zone until Janeway arrived on the Invisible Plane. So! It's *not* unreasonable that Janeway collected the torpedo and that when she returns to the Glendathu System — which is where Westeros is located — she transfers Thar McKawFace to the Enterprise, which is captained by Batman, one of Immortan Joe's imperators, who is loyal to House Stark and sworn to return its undeliverable mail. So in an ironic twist, Jon will receive his own letter from season 2!! The show has finally come full circle :D
The Children Member	Thu Aug 24 01:20:27 "That does sound familiar.. I thought Danny had a scene where she speculated that Jon's father had been complicit with Baratheon's orders to kill her. I couldn't find it, though. " >> i watched that scene several times...it was when jon met with danyris first time and was told 2 bend the knee... she said his father and the king attempted 2 murder her. last i checked ned stark was his "father" and not robert baratheon. hood is just a cuck. he wants 2 believe. ignore him i watched GOT marathon, it was a big deal in season 1...assassinating the targaryan girl lasted several episodes...
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Aug 24 03:34:12 [TC]: "i watched GOT marathon, it was a big deal in season 1...assassinating the targaryan girl lasted several episodes..." Yep, no one's disputing that Robert wanted her dead and that Ned opposed the order. .. [TC]: "i watched that scene several times...it was when jon met with danyris first time and was told 2 bend the knee..." Oh there it is, I skipped over her monologue when searching for it before ;D [Daenerys]: "We fled before Robert's assassins could find us. Robert was your father's best friend, no? I wonder if your father knew his best friend sent assassins to murder a baby girl in her crib. Not that it matters now, of course." But yeah.. Tyrion, Missandei, Davos, and some Dothraki were in the room — no one that was present was aware of Robert's order or Ned's opposition to it. Varys was not in the room. He had just been shown on a cliff with Melisandre as Jon was walking up the castle steps. The scene ends when he enters the room after having received correspondence about their failed attacks.
MrPresident07 Member	Thu Aug 24 07:46:25 The show has also been delaying death. I feel like Jon, Tyrion, and everybody else who walks into that dragon pit should be executed by Cersei to make up for the unbelievably painful shit we've been witnesses. Total human destruction and then the WW come in and wreck everyone. Redeem yourself GoT!
MrPresident07 Member	Thu Aug 24 07:46:46 witnessing*
obaminated Member	Thu Aug 24 11:00:33 Generally speaking, acting and performance is under the directors vision, not the written page because writers aren't really allowed to tell an actor how they would react in the moment. So rather than scream or sob, Dany is in shock. Makes sense. She is a warrior queen who has killed enemies and has had friends die. She wouldn't weep, at least not on the battlefield, same as Jon.
Pillz Member	Thu Aug 24 12:48:09 Jon's reaction to Rickon's death was a lot more dramatic than Danny's to viseryrions or whatever its called. And the only two who'll survive the game of thrones are Sansa (been calling it for years) and Tyrion. Since neither is fighting nor are they Cersei or Littlefinger (all enemies no allies). They'll be remarried (or was it never annulled).
Pillz Member	Thu Aug 24 12:50:29 Also will Arya kill the Hound? I expect her to kill him the way he killed the old farmer (early in their journey together), ie: he's been mortally wounded and she ends it for him. As far as she knows he's already dead though because of how she left him. Maybe she'll let him go
obaminated Member	Thu Aug 24 14:42:09 They didn't bring the hound back to life so arya could kill him. He is a pretty safe bet to survive until the series finale at this point.
hood Member	Thu Aug 24 15:57:01 The hound at least needs to kill the mountain.
The Children Member	Fri Aug 25 06:23:07 damn the cucks got roasted! http://youtu.be/EJZS87Gw89I?t=131 burned and owned. hood, from now on henceforth u shall be known as darth retard
The Children Member	Fri Aug 25 06:25:24 or do u prefer, darth cuckwannabelieve?
hood Member	Fri Aug 25 07:23:28 Have to ever had an original thought?
Rugian Member	Fri Aug 25 11:36:38 "The hound at least needs to kill the mountain." Fortunately for Cleganebowl, the current pacing levels mean that the Hound can travel to KL, kill the Mountain in combat, and return to the Wall all in a single episode. Combine that with D&D's increasing reliance on fan service scenes, Nd it's definitely a possibility.
hood Member	Fri Aug 25 12:04:22 Oh I have every confidence that Cersei is going to invoke a trial by combat (or something similar) in the next episode and call the mountain as her proxy. Then the Hound will volunteer so he can get revenge. Cleganebowl will be a go.
The Children Member	Sat Aug 26 07:19:06 ur opinions r no longer relevant as u have been proven a cuck. damn, s7 sucks. how is s8 not gonna suck. its gonna suck. and we gotta wait a whole year for that shit. like wtf.
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