Utopia Talk / Politics / So Trump colluded.

FoxNEWS Member	Sun Dec 03 11:48:38 Thanks to his admittance of obstruction of justice. Thanks to the emails that are coming out about a special meeting. Thanks to Trump always speaking of Russian, praising them every time information was given to them that was link to Russian sources. Only a matter of time where Trump will try to declare he is the 'President for life' as the impeachment process begins sometime next year. Trumpicantards start to sweat... 'nothingburger' indeed.
FoxNEWS Member	Sun Dec 03 11:50:38 http://www...StB?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-denies-asking-fbi-director-to-go-easy-on-flynn/ar-BBG74s0?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
murder Member	Sun Dec 03 12:00:50 Trump will not be impeached.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Dec 03 12:15:06 More lies, except for murder's post.
Cold Rod Member	Sun Dec 03 12:21:33 Oh except for that pesky, email and him admitting he fired Flynn for lying to the FBI....whoops.
Cold Rod Member	Sun Dec 03 12:23:34 Oh and then lying about asking Comey not to investigate Flynn. Whoops!
Dukhat Member	Sun Dec 03 13:25:20 Doesn't matter if he's removed from office. It's enough, combined with his 38% approval rating and 55% disapproval (which hides the 18% strong approval and 50% strong disapproval ratings) to give Dems the next 2 election cycles. The dems will investigate fully when they take the house and also open up an investigation on all the allegations of sexual assault too and Trump will be ensure the next Democratic Presidential candidate wins 400+ electoral votes.
Dukhat Member	Sun Dec 03 13:25:33 Meanwhile, there's a good chance he gets impeached during all this.
Forwyn Member	Sun Dec 03 14:49:29 "open up an investigation on all the allegations of sexual assault" Congress investigating sexual assault, lol
hood Member	Sun Dec 03 14:55:33 Are these the sexual assault allegations from well before he was elected? They aren't going to find anything overbearingly conclusive. It's a waste of time to investigate the incidents, even though they likely happened.
Dukhat Member	Sun Dec 03 15:09:18 Like half the people stepping down for sexual assault and harassment are doing it for incidents separate from their current job. The democrats should take off the gloves and Kenneth Starr Trump 100%. Drive that margin up with female voters.
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Dec 03 15:36:24 flynn didn’t lie about anything unlawful and thus his lies were not meaningful since only pharisees on a witch hunt would legally go after person for meaningless lies.. it is actually “furtherance of justice” to ask such deep state pharisees on witch hunt to stop their pursuit of injustice.. and fire them if they do not cease their outrages as for the “collusion”.. where is it.. at one time after “conspiracy” theorists swapped their signature word for “collusion” it at least meant something like “finding trump secretly working with russians to break laws and hack emails and gain unfair advantage in election”.. since no evidence for those conspiracy theories has been found.. the meaning of “collusion” now seems changed to mean any kind of contact no matter how legal or expected or whether it’s
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Dec 03 15:40:25 * or whether it led to cooperation as long if it’s with russia [making same requests to other countries is not collusion] but only if it’s by trump
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Dec 03 15:50:45 skimming through first link.. some guy in nra with links to russian gun groups suggested trump meet with putin which didn’t happen.. great evidence of “collusion” there
Trolly Member	Sun Dec 03 16:02:22 HEY everybody its werewolf dicktaster!
delude Member	Sun Dec 03 16:03:05 "flynn didn’t lie about anything unlawful and thus his lies were not meaningful " Hey hot rod jr., did Flynn take a plea deal?
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Sun Dec 03 16:05:15 Flynn's Plea Is Another NothingBurger In Russiagate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUuoE7DcZDY
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Dec 03 16:07:15 What Flynn did after Trump won the election was perfectly legal except he lied about it to the FBI. Nothing happened before the election. Trump did not tell Comey to lay off Flynn. There is the plain and simple truth.
delude Member	Sun Dec 03 16:09:06 "Trump did not tell Comey to lay off Flynn. " “I hope you can let this go,” the president told Mr. Comey,
delude Member	Sun Dec 03 16:09:41 “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go,” Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey, according to the memo. “He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Dec 03 16:24:08 I told you the truth if you wish to fantasize something different go ahead.
delude Member	Sun Dec 03 16:47:43 No, you are wanting that to be the truth. But the truth is, Trump made those statements.
Aeros Member	Sun Dec 03 17:11:24 Anyone who thinks mueller will show his cards before he drops the hammer. We wont see any mention of Russia involvement until the end
Dukhat Member	Sun Dec 03 21:07:06 Even if somehow magically Trump is not indicted at the end of all this, there are a lot more dominos to fall in his inner circle given that they gave Flynn a sweetheart plea deal. It will be the final nail in the coffin about how awful his judgment is.
murder Member	Sun Dec 03 22:21:01 "Trump did not tell Comey to lay off Flynn" Trump can say whatever he wants to the public, but he better remember what happened to Clinton for lying under oath.
murder Member	Sun Dec 03 22:29:58 "Even if somehow magically Trump is not indicted at the end of all this, there are a lot more dominos to fall in his inner circle given that they gave Flynn a sweetheart plea deal." I think the media is overselling this. I think Mueller is more interested in uncovering the truth than in putting a bunch of people in jail. I think Flynn's big contribution will be forcing Kushner to come clean to avoid jail time. I don't see this getting to Trump unless he's stupid enough to lie to the feds. I also don't see serious jail time for anyone except Manafort.
jergul large member	Sun Dec 03 22:58:36 "unless he's stupid enough to lie to the feds." He will lie if he talks to them. So stupid enough to talk to the Feds.
obaminated Member	Mon Dec 04 00:03:54 Nah, trump is great with using phrases that would never hold him accountable. I didnt vote for the man because he clearly knew how to parse his words in ways that made it impossible to say he lied.
obaminated Member	Mon Dec 04 00:05:55 But no, the trump campaign didnt collude with russia to rig the election. This flynn stuff puts it all to bed.
Dukhat Member	Mon Dec 04 00:07:56 "I don't see this getting to Trump unless he's stupid enough to lie to the feds." You don't think all the stupid things he's said won't come back to bite him in the ass? He basically constantly asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn before firing him and has constantly asked house and senate republicans to end the Russian investigation. It has obstruction of justice written all over it. Trump is depending on his moron base of support to protect him but his disapproval has slowly been inching upward. He's closer to 35/65 Approval/disapproval now than ever according to 538. He's lost a ton of supporters and will continue to do so because he's full of shit and has no real plan to improve the lives of Americans. In fact he's made things worse by causing healthcare rates to skyrocket and raised the risk of war. People may just impeach him because they dislike him, not because he did anything wrong if he becomes unpopular enough (given everything he's done, it'd be easy to make some kind of case).
Seb Member	Mon Dec 04 04:00:22 Murder: I share your skepticism but the details do seem to support the note extreme situation. I've been trying to figure out this paradox. I reckon my bullshit detector is broken and may be giving a false positive. Normally with intricate conspiracy theories with plausible details, when you take a step back it is emergently crazy. "Why would anyone take that level of risk? Overall this doesn't work as a single contrived scheme". But here you have exactly the powerful mix of idiocy, political naivitie, arrogance - egged on by the Trump top team possibly believing their own bullshit "Clinton did this and got away with it, so we totally can". So I just don't know anymore. It's fun to watch though. Shardenfreude I know but it's the only thing keeping me going through the shambles that's brexit.
American Democrat Member	Mon Dec 04 04:39:52 When you have Trump's lawyer claiming that he was the one that wrote the tweet stating that; "I fired Flynn because he lied to the VP and FBI." Most probably means that Trump actually wrote something that implicates him and to avoid that a fall guy must take his place. Whom in this situation is Trump's lawyer. And if you believe that, then you are naïve.
murder Member	Mon Dec 04 08:41:28 "He will lie if he talks to them. So stupid enough to talk to the Feds." Trump has testified under oath and admitted to lying about his wealth. Prison isn't in his plans.
murder Member	Mon Dec 04 08:48:24 "You don't think all the stupid things he's said won't come back to bite him in the ass? He basically constantly asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn before firing him and has constantly asked house and senate republicans to end the Russian investigation. It has obstruction of justice written all over it." It may bite him on the ass, but I don't think he gets indicted. He was elected, and there is a Constitutional process for removing him. I don't think Mueller is going to wade into those waters. Firstly because I think he has no appetite for it, but also because it would feed the paranoia and conspiracy theories of the nutball right. It could lead to violence.
murder Member	Mon Dec 04 09:07:55 "So I just don't know anymore. It's fun to watch though. Shardenfreude I know but it's the only thing keeping me going through the shambles that's brexit." After years of non-stop caterwauling about Benghazi and Obama not being a citizen, I'm enjoying the hell out of this. Even if no one does any significant jail time, just watching Trump and his coconspirators getting pantsed in public is making this trainwreck a little more bearable. And speaking of Brexit, would you mind sending someone over to pick up Louise Mensch? She has overstayed her welcome. Thanks in advance! ;o)
murder Member	Mon Dec 04 09:12:54 "Most probably means that Trump actually wrote something that implicates him and to avoid that a fall guy must take his place. Whom in this situation is Trump's lawyer. And if you believe that, then you are naïve." Trump requires a full time staff just to cover up for the stupid shit he says and does. I've never seen anything like it. The funny thing is that he could have simply said that he misspoke, and that would've been that. But his ego turns small messes into scandals.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Dec 04 09:20:31 murder - Trump requires a full time staff just to cover up for the stupid shit he says and does. I've never seen anything like it. I guess you missed Congress, the lame street media and the FBI covering up for the HRC.
Dukhat Member	Mon Dec 04 09:34:35 Probably the most important point. Flynn and Papadoupolis (sp?) have been flipped for months. Flynn has been in contact with Trump for most of the year only recently having cut off ties with Trump. You think Trump is smart enough to be careful about what he says?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Dec 04 09:50:49 More than smart enough. He always knows what he is saying.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Dec 04 09:59:59 All of his talking about fake news and corrupt politicians and they re falling like flies. BTW, the story the OP is based on is fake news. The reporter who wrote it for ABC has been suspended for a month without pay for not vetting it properly. The real story will come when 401K owners star suing ABX and THE VIEW. Joy Bayhar read it on the air and that caused the market to tank. The did not air the retraction until after the markets had closed.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Dec 04 10:02:44 *-ABC
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Mon Dec 04 11:14:52 Jared Kushner Was Right To ‘Collude’ With Russia — Because He Did It For Israel Read more: http://for...-because-he-did-it-for-israel/
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Dec 04 11:23:57 It is clear from the article that Kushner did nothing wrong.
Delude Member	Mon Dec 04 12:58:00 It's an opinion. Not fact.
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Mon Dec 04 13:01:21 Trump should be impeached, but he won't be. The rich love him, he's helping to bring back laissez faire capitalism!
Paramount Member	Mon Dec 04 13:03:49 This may be first prosecution underpinned by Logan Act, accusing U.S. citizens of jeopardizing official U.S. policy on behalf of foreign state (Israel): [...] No doubt, you will hear Israel apologists argue that the Logan Act claim is specious since the resolution ended up passing anyway. They will claim that the Trump machinations were an abject failure, so its actions should be mitigated by this fact. But Logan doesn’t make allowances for whether a betrayal of U.S. interests is successful or not. The very act of sabotage is itself the offense. It’s clear in this case that Mueller will not use Logan as the direct charge in court to prosecute Flynn or Kushner. As I mentioned, a violation of the Act alone has never led to a conviction. But lying about one’s action pursuant to a Logan Act violation is an eminently prosecutable offense. That’s perjury and a standard federal case. This is what Flynn has confessed to. Next up, without doubt, will be Kushner. He’s next in Mueller’s sites. But unlike Flynn, he can’t cop a plea. If he did so, this would lead directly to Trump, since Kushner without doubt pursued this matter under direct order from Trump. Kushner must protect the big guy. That’s why it’s likely Mueller will actually file charges against Kushner, indict him and prosecute him. Whether he wins the case will determine whether Trump goes down as the next target. The big fish is Trump. That’s who he’s after in the long run. The special counsel aims to hand the Congress a case that is signed, sealed and delivered, ready for impeachment proceedings. Then it will be up to the Republican majority (though if the case lingers after 2018, it might be a Democratic majority) to determine whether to move forward. So 2018 becomes even more critical than it has been until now. Then Democrats will run on essentially one platform: impeach Trump. They will go to the country and ask the American people to give them a mandate to pursue impeachment. At least they will if they’re sensible (which they often aren’t) and want to win. As I wrote in MEE, what’s critical about this entire episode is that U.S. policy toward Israel is at the heart of the matter. Never in the history of the Republic has anyone been convicted for acting on behalf of Israel to sabotage U.S. policy. This is a watershed moment (even though this won’t be the specific, proximate cause of Flynn or Kushner’s ultimate downfall). The Israel Lobby will deny it played any role in this and claim it has nothing to do with these charges. However, it should understand (though given it’s hubris it might refuse to do so) that there are now distinct limits on its power; and that if a politician or Lobby official goes beyond those limits they put themselves into very concrete legal jeopardy. Critics of Israel and its far-right government are always seeking tell-tale signs of the downfall of the Lobby, hoping that this will lead to the downfall of the racist, oppressive policies Israel has pursued for the past decades. There is always a tendency to overemphasize every development and seeing what one wants to see. This is often my criticism of sites like Mondoweiss. Wish fulfillment isn’t the same as fact. But this case could be a bellweather. A day that marked when one era ended and another began in U.S. relations toward Israel. Whether that happens hinges on whether Mueller succeeds in his case against Kushner and ultimately Trump. History is in the making… http://www...israel-settlements-resolution/ Death to Israel. DEATH!
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Dec 04 13:14:15 The Logan Act does not apply because what The President and his staff did was perfectly legal.
Paramount Member	Mon Dec 04 13:16:28 lol "No doubt, you will hear Israel apologists argue that the Logan Act claim is specious since the resolution ended up passing anyway." ^ lol "But Logan doesn’t make allowances for whether a betrayal of U.S. interests is successful or not. The very act of sabotage is itself the offense." -30-
Forwyn Member	Mon Dec 04 13:36:23 "betrayal of U.S. interests" It would be very difficult to successfully accuse the executive of betraying US interests, as to a large extent US interests are shaped by the executive.
hood Member	Mon Dec 04 13:41:28 He wasn't shaping us interests at the time.
Forwyn Member	Mon Dec 04 13:43:43 Before or after the election? A transition team can absolutely set the stage for their accession.
Aeros Member	Mon Dec 04 13:49:01 That's a legal gray area tbqh. The transition team can certainly reach out to foreign actors, but they can't undermine the actions of the sitting President.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Dec 04 13:57:53 paramounted, The meetings took place after Trump was The President-Elect. It was ***ALL*** perfectly legal. *****ALL***** Presidents-Elect and their staffs have such meetings with Foreign Heads of State. P E R I O D .
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Dec 04 21:14:35 The investigation into Trump's collusion is over. They are now going after him for 'Obstruction of Justice'. Do try to keep up.
American Democrat Member	Mon Dec 04 21:18:31 "The investigation into Trump's collusion is over. " False, the investigation has not been included. Why do you lie?
American Democrat Member	Mon Dec 04 21:18:43 concluded*
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