Utopia Talk / Politics / Another Pig Murderer Found Not Guilty

Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 10:46:38 PHOENIX -- A former Arizona police officer was acquitted Thursday of a murder charge in the 2016 fatal shooting of an unarmed man outside his hotel room as officers were responding to a call that someone there was pointing a gun out a window. The verdict cleared Philip Brailsford, 27, of criminal liability in the 2016 death of Daniel Shaver, of Granbury, Texas. He was also found not guilty of reckless manslaughter, reports CBS Phoenix affiliate KPHO-TV. The shooting occurred in the Phoenix suburb of Mesa after officers ordered Shaver to exit his hotel room, lay face-down in a hallway and refrain from making sudden movements - or risk being shot. Shaver, 26, sobbed as he begged police not to shoot and was ordered to crawl toward officers. As he inched forward, he reached toward the waistband of his shorts. Brailsford said he fired his rifle because he believed Shaver was grabbing a handgun in his waistband. While no gun was found on Shaver's body, two pellet rifles related to his pest-control job were later found in his room. The detective investigating the shooting had agreed Shaver's movement was similar to reaching for a pistol, but has said it also looked as though Shaver was pulling up his loose-fitting basketball shorts that had fallen down as he was ordered to crawl toward officers. The investigator noted he did not see anything that would have prevented officers from simply handcuffing Shaver as he was on the floor. During the trial, Brailsford testified that he believed 100 percent that Shaver was reaching for a gun and that if in the same situation again, he would make the same decision, KPHO says. Brailsford's attorney Michael Piccarreta put an arm around his client after the verdict was read. "There are no winners in this case, but Mitch Brailsford had to make a split-second decision on a situation that he was trained to recognize as someone drawing a weapon and had one second to react," Piccarreta said. "He didn't want to harm Mr. Shaver... The circumstances that night that were presented led him to conclude that he was in danger. Try to make a decision in one second, life or death. It's pretty hard." Piccarreta also said he wasn't sure his client would be interested in trying to get his police job back. Shaver's widow, Laney Sweet, and Shaver's parents have filed wrongful-death lawsuits against the city of Mesa over the shooting death. Sweet shook her head "no" after the jury's decision and said she wasn't going to answer any questions. Shaver's parents didn't respond to reporters' questions as they left the courtroom. During his trial testimony, Brailsford described the stress that he faced in responding to the call and his split-second decision to shoot Shaver. Brailsford told jurors that he was terrified for the safety of officers and a woman who in the hallway. He also said he felt "incredibly sad" for Shaver. Brailsford served as a Mesa officer for about two years before he was fired for violations of departmental policy, including unsatisfactory performance. He is one of the few police officers in the U.S. to be charged with murder for shooting someone while on duty. The shooting occurred as police departments across the U.S. became focal points of protests over deadly encounters with law enforcement. http://www...atal-shooting-of-man-in-hotel/
Hot Rod Revved Up	Fri Dec 08 10:58:49 They wanted to shoot him, that is why they made him crawl instead of just handcuffing him while he was face down on the ground. I believe cops deserve the benefit of the doubt, but this sounds like there was no doubt.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 13:04:44 Probably shouldn't have reached for anything then...
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 13:17:27 Probably should have cuffed him like his female companion instead of pretending that the sobbing man was hiding a firearm in his half-down gym shorts and that he could have feasibly gotten the drop on two cops.
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Fri Dec 08 13:20:24 Jesus Christ. The guy in on the ground on his stomach. The officer can afford a second to see if the guy actually does grab something. No way the guy on the ground can grab the gun, aim, and fire before the cop could shoot him dead
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 13:21:20 Armchair quarterbacking, hindsight is 20/20. Gave directives and then appeared to reach for something in a sudden movement. Have to make a decision, decision to either take a chance on being shot and killed, or neutralizing what appears to be a threat. Video demonstrates it. Sorry forseb, go back to your sobbing about juries.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 13:30:22 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kzRcGeuNeQ 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uig4YPzNct8 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhC_ATfWOUE Forseb thinks officers should have a pow-wow and see how it plays out.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 13:33:08 Muh thin blue line! Muh hidden weapons! Muh sobbing facedown Jason Bourne! Go fuck yourself.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 13:35:04 Forsebbed again.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 13:35:29 "Here's three videos of suspects on their feet acting erratically, FORSEBBED HURRRRR" Fucking retard.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 13:37:07 forsebbed again. Stop forsebbing yourself.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 13:37:38 so forsebbed that he ignored the one that was on the ground. So forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 13:41:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur21MJZqM4I spilt second decision, shoot or don't shoot. forseb things there should be a parlez.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 14:00:35 Hurrrr here's another suspect who is actively evading and resisting, hurrrrrr"
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:01:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHK41COLq6Y forseb thinks about just give him a few more seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdKUFua5mv0 forseb says: "Remember cops have time to talk it out with you in instant moments."
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:02:18 Forseb thinks that in "shoot and don't shoot" scenarios that suspects are incapable of making sudden movements that can be construed as threads. forseb is so forseb. he forsebbed himself again.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:02:48 threats* I made a forsebbed, but I corrected it. #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:10:59 http://www...ll-officer-new-years-day-2016/ forseb says: "The cop should have waited one more second after so he would have time to determine if it was a BB gun or toy gun" #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:14:01 http://www...lly-fire-at-the-rookie-officer forseb says: "Let's see how this plays out, give him time to talk, and it was only a revolver with 6 rounds, you had 6 chances to dodge. Remember, just talk." #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:15:24 http://www...-gun-shoots-cop-sat-front.html forseb says: "When a suspect is handcuffed, they are no longer a danger." #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:18:37 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wf7t3 forseb says: "He was cooperating, when they do, it doesn't mean that they would do anything to harm cops, because they were cooperating!!" #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:21:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7W_Comhdsg forseb says: "let the man sleep and ignore complaints, he was just in his car minding his own business." #forsebbed.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 14:26:25 Trolly is revealed as a thin blue line shill, thinking that totally unrelated situations are analogous to shooting a sobbing compliant man on the ground five times after already successfully detaining his friend. Probably agrees with the judge who ruled that the "You're Fucked" dust cover shouldn't be shown to the jury.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:27:37 http://www...gle-over-weapon-ensues/9561878 forseb says: "The cop had nothing to worry about, just keep asking him if he is okay, and he was merely "holding" the gun not intending to use it." #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:28:38 forseb doesn't believe that cops have split second decision to make and that shoot and don't shoot scenarios are myths. #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:32:32 http://www...uspect-killed-in-traffic-stop/ forseb says: "when someone is pulled over for a traffic violation, they never have any intent to harm an officer. Never." #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:39:38 http://www...from-dress-fires-at-groom.html This one for the hilarity. forseb says: "It was a wedding, nothing ever happens in a wedding, no one ever has any intent whatsoever to do anything outrageous." #forsebbed.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 14:43:26 LOL! I was about to laugh about Trolly pulling stories straight from Policeone to support his completely unjustifiable strawman, hover over a link, Policeone. Fucking retarded shill, LOL
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:47:00 Forseb is so forsebbed. as policeone is a website that is a resource for those in law enforcement. Forseb continues not being able to articulate a response and attack the sources that clearly demonstrates situations that officers are put in. As well as discussions about the profession about the good and bad. Not once during the listing of demonstrations that display the scenarios that officers have to make regarding split second decisions in life or death situations and shoot or don't shoot. Because forseb believes you can always talk things out negating that fact that at times, it merely isn't an option. Forseb continues to forseb himself in regards to ignore that the links provided come from a variety of sources. forseb is forsebbing himself. and he is forsebbed. #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:51:19 forseb is also a person that is against law enforcement as the believes they do not serve a purpose. There is a history of it. Forseb ignores any objectivity and assessments and continues his bias because perhaps a policeman fucked his wife or girlfriend. Who knows, that is besides the point and I mention it only because a possible scenario that explains his bias. Again, who knows? While forseb continues his tirad and hates the fact that he is wrong about a lot of things, hence why he was dubbed forseb a while back. He will continuously in a hilarious fashion claim some sort of achievement where he has done nothing more except thinking that officers are never in 'shoot and don't shoot' situations and that they are not allowed to make split second decisions to preserve their safety and life. Once again, forsebbed. #forsebbed.
hood Member	Fri Dec 08 14:53:19 Well this was not what I expected this thread to be...
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:57:22 I anticipate forseb with his responses of "huuuur and duuur" as well as "source material huuur" and every other antic that he gathers from a 4chan site. #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 14:58:18 Oh and "muhhhh!" #forsebbed.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 15:03:06 Trolly posts a bunch of circlejerked, unrelated incidents to show that, "hurrrr, split-decision situations occur. #forsebbed!" No one debated that. However, a majority of the links I had the patience to peruse showed: a) suspects fleeing, b) suspects resisting, c) suspects on their feet that could easily get the drop on the officer without a quick reaction. None of these apply to the OP. You have a dude who should have a) just been cuffed, like his friend, or b) just backed his way to the officers. Instead you have a sobbing incoherent drunk guy begging not to be shot, but doing his very best to adhere to conflicting commands. And you expect me to believe that it is a realistic scenario for this man to have just been putting on an act, that in any dimension inhabitated by humans, that Jason Bourne will jump up and get the drop on two cops with a weapon produced from his half-down gym shorts. Because that's not a real scenario. This is a cop who inscribes "You're Fucked" on his dust cover, the kind of shithead that shows up to the range with a plate carrier and Oakley's, who can't want to off a perp. Who says he would do it again, knowing it was an unarmed guy with a six-year old daughter. And throughout all of this, all you can muster is, "hurrrr cops have to make quick decisions hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr FORSEBBED" You're retarded.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Fri Dec 08 15:05:07 Forwyn wins the thread.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 15:13:47 "Trolly posts a bunch of circlejerked, unrelated incidents to show that, "hurrrr, split-decision situations occur. #forsebbed!" " Trolly McDick to correct you. Forseb ignores the point as he over looks it thinking it is unrelated to what the subject is at hand. Forseb thinks that a person who is given directs and appearing to follow them are incapable of then becoming violent and have an intent to cause harm. It is a shame that forseb's objectivity is no where to be seen because of his bias that continuously plays out anytime a law enforcement official is involved. So, here is the subject once again for forseb because he has no objectivity and he hates cops. It was reported suspect had firearms, the suspect appeared to be compliant, then suspect made a sudden movement and reached which to a reasonable officer as articulated in court feared for his safety and the safety of others. Perhaps he, the suspect, should not have reached so suddenly and listened. Regardless how you feel emotionally about the situation. "No one debated that. However, a majority of the links I had the patience to peruse showed: a) suspects fleeing, b) suspects resisting, c) suspects on their feet that could easily get the drop on the officer without a quick reaction. " This is a flat lie, if forseb claimed to have "perused" through the videos he would have seen a common theme that people can suddenly assault officers. As demonstrated in traffic stops. But forseb can't get over his bias and see the point that I was making which I said in my aforementioned post. "None of these apply to the OP. You have a dude who should have a) just been cuffed, like his friend, or b) just backed his way to the officers. Instead you have a sobbing incoherent drunk guy begging not to be shot, but doing his very best to adhere to conflicting commands. " Forseb, everything I demonstrated applied to the OP in regards to the subject matter of "shoot and don't shoot" and split-second decision making officers have in regards to their assessments. "And you expect me to believe that it is a realistic scenario for this man to have just been putting on an act, that in any dimension inhabitated by humans, that Jason Bourne will jump up and get the drop on two cops with a weapon produced from his half-down gym shorts." Forseb, you are the one that it interject hollywood stunts, yet ignore the fact that regardless if someone is capable of such atheletics it does not negate the fact that it would not take that long for anyone to reach for a weapon, in this instance a firearm and start shooting. The videos sourced were there to demonstrate. Especially the traffic stops and the ones where the suspect suddenly pulled a gun as he was walking or the one that was on the ground. Remember forseb, you just claimed you "perused" through the videos. Clearly you are lying and did not. Therefore, forsebbed. "Because that's not a real scenario. This is a cop who inscribes "You're Fucked" on his dust cover, the kind of shithead that shows up to the range with a plate carrier and Oakley's, who can't want to off a perp. Who says he would do it again, knowing it was an unarmed guy with a six-year old daughter. " Now you are claiming that this could never be a real scenario that a person would suddenly pull a gun where there are many instances of suspects pulling guns on officers and citizens alike. What a forseb you are. "And throughout all of this, all you can muster is, "hurrrr cops have to make quick decisions hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr FORSEBBED" " I claimed it, 4chan antics. You are forsebbed. Quit while you are not ahead. #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 15:14:48 "Forwyn wins the thread." You would not know win for losing. Forseb is clearly caught lying and his objectivity out the window as his bias against cops is blatant. #forsebbed.
Cold Rod Member	Fri Dec 08 15:19:01 Trolly wins the thread! See what I did there!!
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 15:19:21 Trolly McDick.
Cold Rod Member	Fri Dec 08 15:19:34 whatever.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 15:25:32 Again, "here are scenarios where suspects suddenly attack the officer, totally related" Not. No reasonable person would have looked at the poor slug crawling his way towards six officers - yeah, I had that fact wrong, it was six, not just two - would suddenly draw a weapon and fire on six cops. None of the other five officers did. None of the command watched the video and thought that, because Brailsford was fired. "Now you are claiming that this could never be a real scenario that a person would suddenly pull a gun where there are many instances of suspects pulling guns on officers and citizens alike." More strawmen, and this is the core of the issue. You compare a dude actively fleeing the cops and then attacking them to a guy crawling as commanded and sobbing, begging not to be shot. No, in no realistic scenario would THIS MAN have attacked those officers, and you can tell that without background information, by simply viewing the video. "This is a flat lie" "1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kzRcGeuNeQ" Suspect actively fleeing/resisting, on his feet. "2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uig4YPzNct8" Suspect leaving vehicle with weapon, ignoring commands, on his feet. "3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhC_ATfWOUE" Suspect dancing around like a lunatic, ignoring commands, on his feet. "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur21MJZqM4I spilt second decision, shoot or don't shoot." Suspect actively fleeing/resisting, on his feet. Idiot.
delude Member	Fri Dec 08 15:27:13 " instead of pretending that the sobbing man was hiding a firearm in his half-down gym shorts and that he could have feasibly gotten the drop on two cops." Pretending? Are you inferring that the officer should have just waited till he pulled something out, if anything, before making a decision which by that time could more probably been too late? I mean, that is rather going a bit too far to assume the office would have had time. A sudden movement is a sudden movement. Yeah, sucks for dude, but in that situation. Not sure if I would have waited either.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 15:33:32 "Not. No reasonable person would have looked at the poor slug crawling his way towards six officers - yeah, I had that fact wrong, it was six, not just two - would suddenly draw a weapon and fire on six cops. None of the other five officers did. None of the command watched the video and thought that, because Brailsford was fired. " Forseb, it doesn't matter the amount of cops there, that isn't the point. Stop interjecting variables that do not have any influence of the situation. In fact, how about you stop forsebbing and focus on the conditions of the situation. The point is, forseb, is that the person could have pulled a gun and caused harmed to bystanders and to the officers. But, in forseb logic and fashion, its okay for that to happen because there are ....6 cops. You are a fucking forseb. "More strawmen, and this is the core of the issue. You compare a dude actively fleeing the cops and then attacking them to a guy crawling as commanded and sobbing, begging not to be shot. " No, I compare it to split-second decision making as you keep thinking it is a strawmen because you are compromised by your own bias and resulting in pollution of any objectivity. Forseb. "No, in no realistic scenario would THIS MAN have attacked those officers, and you can tell that without background information, by simply viewing the video. " Viewing the video also shows him making a sudden movement that apppears him reaching for something that can be construed as a threat by a reasonable officer. You're so forsebbed. ""This is a flat lie" "1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kzRcGeuNeQ" Suspect actively fleeing/resisting, on his feet. "2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uig4YPzNct8" Suspect leaving vehicle with weapon, ignoring commands, on his feet. "3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhC_ATfWOUE" Suspect dancing around like a lunatic, ignoring commands, on his feet. "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur21MJZqM4I spilt second decision, shoot or don't shoot." Suspect actively fleeing/resisting, on his feet. Idiot." Forseb, forsebbed himself again not understanding how and why it was a lie as he ignores once again the "shoot and don't shoot" situations in regards to split-second decision making. do this all day if you want forseb by ignore the point that is being made. It does not make your case at all. If you want to sit there and believe that cops can afford just a few moments to take that chance on being injured or killed. Feel free to live in that fantasy world. That than that you are such a hack and forseb.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 15:35:32 *Other than that you are such a hack and forseb. #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 15:37:07 Delude, forseb believes that due to the fact there are 6 officers, they should have just waited and taken one for the team and one of them to be shot and seriously injured or killed. #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 15:38:38 Hurry up forseb...
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 15:40:14 "Forseb is clearly caught lying" Idiot. "and his objectivity out the window as his bias against cops is blatant." Let's nip this in the bud. I worked for several years putting myself through college, directly with local cops, on typically very shitty calls in an emergency room. I saw some very unprofessional behavior from doctors and nurses, and very little from the officers. The situations that we argue about on UP are not day to day drunkards and combative patients. They account for a minority of situations. However, I do very much dislike the phenomenon of circling the wagons, pretending that an attack on a bad shoot is an attack on the decision-making process of all officers. You have a shill perusing a cop circle-jerk site - I'm sorry, a "resource for those in law enforcement", showing a lot of incomparable, clearly justified shootings, to try to justify a clearly unjustified shooting, and trying to frame it as, "Well, we ALL know that Forseb is just anti-law enforcement, he doesn't think they serve any purpose." That's the clear lie, here.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 15:41:35 "why it was a lie" What an incredibly brain-dead idiot you are. rofl
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 15:43:59 "Pretending? Are you inferring that the officer should have just waited till he pulled something out, if anything, before making a decision which by that time could more probably been too late? I mean, that is rather going a bit too far to assume the office would have had time. A sudden movement is a sudden movement." I am absolutely not inferring that no reasonable person should have assumed that this man was reaching for a weapon, that he constituted an immediate threat, that even if he had a weapon, he would not have been able to level the weapon in time to harm anyone. No inferral needed, those are facts.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 15:46:08 "Idiot. " forseb. "Let's nip this in the bud. I worked for several years putting myself through college, directly with local cops, on typically very shitty calls in an emergency room. I saw some very unprofessional behavior from doctors and nurses, and very little from the officers. " I don't care for your bio and it is irrelevant. Moving on. "The situations that we argue about on UP are not day to day drunkards and combative patients. They account for a minority of situations. " Irrelevant. "However, I do very much dislike the phenomenon of circling the wagons, pretending that an attack on a bad shoot is an attack on the decision-making process of all officers. You have a shill perusing a cop circle-jerk site - I'm sorry, a "resource for those in law enforcement", showing a lot of incomparable, clearly justified shootings, to try to justify a clearly unjustified shooting, and trying to frame it as, "Well, we ALL know that Forseb is just anti-law enforcement, he doesn't think they serve any purpose." That's the clear lie, here." And this here explains your ignorance about the site as there is a policeone.com site, correctionsone.com site, firefighters sites, emt paramedic sites, and various first responder sites. For you to sit there and falsely claim it is a circlejerk site without clearly understanding the mission statement of the site is fundamentally stupid clearly shows your bias towards law enforcement. And that is what I am absolutely right about. And you just demonstrated it right there. #forsebbed. Go lick your wounds underling.
delude Member	Fri Dec 08 15:49:50 "I am absolutely not inferring that no reasonable person should have assumed that this man was reaching for a weapon, that he constituted an immediate threat, that even if he had a weapon, he would not have been able to level the weapon in time to harm anyone. No inferral needed, those are facts." See that is where the flaw is, that you are presuming that this person was incapable of doing that as you say "reasonable", what is the reason, why do you not think, what background do you have to make that expert analysis. Where it has been shown in the news various situations where a person has reached for something in their pockets, pants, purses, or whatever crevice to pull out a weapon or firearm of sorts. Possibly, the scenario or situation may resulted as they would have not had time to aim it in a general vicinity to harm sometime, but that is far fetched and rather immature to think that it could not ever happened. Sorry, that isn't one of those "wait and see" moments.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 15:54:43 Forseb says: "Because he was sobbing, no real person would ever sob as a ruse and do something heinous it is impossible. and remember THERE WERE 6 OFFICERS!!" #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Fri Dec 08 15:58:26 Also, I find this funny too. That out of the many links I provided, I only see just one link from policeone.com sourced. Just one. If there is more, it would be mostly 2. But at least one. And forseb wants to focus on that to discredit it as a 'circle-jerk' site. And then wants to claim he has no bias against law enforcement. Shut the fuck up. #forsebbed.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 16:10:25 "I don't care for your bio and it is irrelevant." "Irrelevant." "Don't insult muh policeone" You accused me of lying. You are the liar here. Moving on. "Because he was sobbing, no real person would ever sob as a ruse and do something heinous it is impossible. and remember THERE WERE 6 OFFICERS!!" Yes. Given the totality of the situation: a) suspect has been completely, totally, utterly compliant b) suspect was clearly terrified, and yet still trying to remain compliant c) suspect was in gym shorts and a t-shirt, not the ideal weapon concealment outfit, yet not bulge to be seen, no weapon witnessed d) suspect's friend had already been detained without incident, and suspect was close enough to be cuffed e) a fucking low crawl is ridiculous to begin with. Really? A fucking low crawl? rofl "And forseb wants to focus on that to discredit it as a 'circle-jerk' site. And then wants to claim he has no bias against law enforcement." Boo fucking hoo. That you can't grasp that it's just as possible to circle pro-LE as anti-LE, i.e. BLM, is your problem, not mine.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 16:12:21 "Possibly, the scenario or situation may resulted as they would have not had time to aim it in a general vicinity to harm sometime, but that is far fetched and rather immature to think that it could not ever happened." No. It is ludicrous to postulate that a suspect lying facedown could retrieve a handgun and level it at officers before an officer with a rifle five feet away could react. A soldier shooting a terror suspect in Baghdad under similar circumstances would be court-martialed.
delude Member	Fri Dec 08 16:29:58 "No. It is ludicrous to postulate that a suspect lying facedown could retrieve a handgun and level it at officers before an officer with a rifle five feet away could react. " He wasn't face down. And a person even lying face down can still be a threat, just like a person who is restrained could still be a threat. Regardless, the person in the video wasn't face down, he was on all fours and still had great mobility. Seems like you are inventing and ignore what is actually on the video. "A soldier shooting a terror suspect in Baghdad under similar circumstances would be court-martialed." Yeah, I see no connection to the point you're making, unless you want to say that rules of engagement is the same.
delude Member	Fri Dec 08 16:35:41 I should say "some" mobility, not great, but contextually is what I mean as in being mobile enough to still reach for a weapon.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 16:53:40 "caught lying" No. I wasn't. You said I didn't watch videos. I gave examples and showed that I did, and my point remained on all of them. "You merely got caught on your bullshit and got called out on it" You've called out nothing, because you're a fucking retard. lawl kill yourself.
Wikus van der Merwe Member	Fri Dec 08 17:08:15 Badge bunnies lol.
The Third Reich Member	Fri Dec 08 17:20:42 "Wikus van der Merwe Member Fri Dec 08 17:08:15 Badge bunnies lol." Hi Renzo!
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 17:20:45 "Office gives command of no sudden movement. Suspect made sudden movement. There goes your "totally utterly compliant" claim." Officers gave several conflicting commands. He obeyed their commands to approach slowly, crawling. He reached to pull up his pants. Now, a fucking retard might ignore every other situational point here, and assume that this was all a ruse to get the jump on six cops, but not all of us are fucking retards. He wasn't, he had no weapon, and we're assigning guilty-before-proven-innocent status to the victim. "There have been many instances of suspects being fearful and appeared to be compliant only then to make sudden actions to assault. There goes that concept of objectivity." Please, peruse your Police One and LEO facebook groups for ONE instance of a suspect complying, approaching as commanding, sobbing and terrified of the hefty armed presence, then jumping up like Jason Bourne to get the drop on unsuspecting cops. Just one. Then I'll bow out and say you were completely right. Just one. "So you're claiming that it is impossible for a suspect to hide any weapon in gym shorts." No. Unlikely. And anything bigger than a .25, you're going to see it. "One does not equal the other." But it also doesn't raise any red flags, either. This guy had zero red flags of possible combative behavior. Zero. "He was on his hands and needs, hardly a "low crawl." "Low crawl" would be prone. He was prone, up until the last 10 seconds of his life. He was crossing his legs, he had his hands on his head, he had surrendered. Just cuff him. Nah, tell him to keep his hands straight up, then tell him to crawl. Not conflicting at all. "He wasn't face down." LOL. Which way was he facing, then?
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 17:29:49 "And I say you didn't because you still brought up points that were not even relevant to the argument made." No. I said that they were unrelated to the OP for several reasons. I gave those reasons. When you tried to "call me out", I pointed to the first four videos and displayed, again, why they were not similar. "I also noticed that you shyed away from your "Given the totality of the situation:"" False. The totality of the situation showed a man crossing his legs when commanded, putting his hands on his head when commanded, sitting up when commanded, crawling when commanded. He surrendered.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 17:31:27 "Regardless, the person in the video wasn't face down, he was on all fours and still had great mobility." He was completely prone before being ordered to crawl by some fucking idiot. And no, crawling is not mobility in the face of an AR-15. Asinine. "Yeah, I see no connection to the point you're making, unless you want to say that rules of engagement is the same." No, the rules of engagement are more strict when dealing with fucking terrorists than with guys in their PJs in a hotel hallway.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 08 22:49:07 "And you missed the point" No, you missed the point. You tried to make some point that cops sometimes have to make split-second decisions on lethal force against suspects. I agree! This absolutely happens, and in the first four videos you posted, we see four instances of clearly justifiable force. The problem, as I've brought up multiple times, is that in every one of these videos, the suspect was: a combination of fleeing and/or resisting, and every single one of them was on their feet. You seem to think these facts are irrelevant. I wholly disagree. Someone fleeing from a cop is not the same as a dude laying down when asked, crossing his legs when asked, putting his hands on his head when asked, sitting up when asked, crawling while asked. "How is it confusing. "Don't do that again, listen to my commands, come crawling towards me no sudden movement." *Guy's hands aren't up* HANDS STRAIGHT UP IN THE AIR! DO NOT PUT YOUR HANDS DOWN FOR ANY REASON! That's a direct quote. Immediately after that, he tells the guy to crawl towards them. Note this is after a solid minute on the fucking ground, hands on head, legs crossed, and a half dozen "Yes sir"s. CUFF HIM! He also instructed Shaver not to put his hands in the small of his back again - poor sap was desperate to be cuffed and get out of the situation - and he didn't. "LOL, you fucking fool." LOL, you're fucking predictable, dude. 1) holsters 2) pants level at waist "Never has a person done anyting like suicide by cop" You sound like a fucking Facebook Trumpette. A dude committing suicide by cop is going to cry, and beg over and over to not get shot? This is what I mean by the totality of the situation. All you're considering is HURR HE PUT HIS HAND UP. You ignore everything else, unless it's a mitigating circumstance for the cop - not the victim.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Dec 09 01:16:04 here's the video of OP incident if it's not in here somewhere already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUUx0jUKxc he irritates them at 3:50 by putting his hands behind his back 4:26 be the shooting seems like it could've been a less complicated set of instructions... not sure why they can't just walk to him and cuff him
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 09 01:37:44 3:50: dude is thinking "please just cuff me"
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 09 03:51:43 I can imagine Trolly shooting the pregnant woman because that stomach could be fake to conceal a weapon. Oh well. At least he went home safe. Muh thin blue line!
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 09 04:00:36 LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 09 04:00:36 LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 09 04:04:23 "LOL LOL LOL" And here's where you nail down your thought process, again. IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE SO WE SHOULD TREAT THIS SCENARIO JUST LIKE IT THAT BELLY COULD BE SHE COULD BE SUICIDAL WE'RE ALL MOMENTS AWAY FROM A FIREFIGHT REEEEEE For another example of your retardation: Where's the Youtube holster? Clearly there's no difference, right? When I'm specifically talking about this case, it's shifting the goalposts, right? Where is it? http://imgur.com/a/xsDLZ
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 09 04:06:07 "I was linked to an article on PoliceOne by a fellow officer of a woman concealing drugs under a fake belly your honor, so I assumed every belly I saw was being used to conceal drugs"
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 09 04:07:12 "I was worried about the forty jihadis hiding in the room your honor, that's why I couldn't cuff him when he was prone, your honor"
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 09 04:07:55 "If we let him walk backwards with his hands up he could have executed a lethal spinkick snapping all of our necks simultaneously, your honor"
jergul large member	Sat Dec 09 16:20:58 Don't spam like that Trolly. 3-5 posts in a row is sufficient.
Trolly McDick Member	Sat Dec 09 16:25:17 Since you deleted actual points, I shall repost them. "You accused me of lying. You are the liar here. Moving on. " Yes I did and you were caught lying. Live with the shame, forseb. "Yes. Given the totality of the situation:" My god you objectivity is so lacking. "a) suspect has been completely, totally, utterly compliant " Office gives command of no sudden movement. Suspect made sudden movement. There goes your "totally utterly compliant" claim. "b) suspect was clearly terrified, and yet still trying to remain compliant " There have been many instances of suspects being fearful and appeared to be compliant only then to make sudden actions to assault. There goes that concept of objectivity. Hey forseb, your really on a forsebbing roll here. "c) suspect was in gym shorts and a t-shirt, not the ideal weapon concealment outfit, yet not bulge to be seen, no weapon witnessed " So you're claiming that it is impossible for a suspect to hide any weapon in gym shorts. I can go through a list again and present them to you how this can this is a myth. Forsebbed yourself again. "d) suspect's friend had already been detained without incident, and suspect was close enough to be cuffed " One does not equal the other. There have been many times that passengers in a vehicle have been compliant, except for one. But, you want to ignore that in an attempt to justify that "oh since one is compliant and in handcuff, surely it is impossible for his friend to do the same." What fucking dumb forseb logic you have. "e) a fucking low crawl is ridiculous to begin with. " You must have a different version of a video than the rest of us. He was on his hands and needs, hardly a "low crawl." "Low crawl" would be prone. But it's okay, you've already been caught lying, so why not add another lie right? "Boo fucking hoo. That you can't grasp that it's just as possible to circle pro-LE as anti-LE, i.e. BLM, is your problem, not mine." Just because you want to ignore the variety of the sources linked and then find one that you feel is a slant towards law enforcement and ignore that fact that it is a resource for those in that profession, just like its affiliate sites that focus on other first responders is not my issue but your issue. You merely got caught on your bullshit and got called out on it and this is your response to dismiss it as "your problem not mine." So there for, I can claim that you are conceding and admit that you clearly have a bias against law enforcement, or should I go a step further and first responders as a whole? #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Sat Dec 09 16:26:06 Trolly McDick Member Fri Dec 08 17:10:19 "No. I wasn't. You said I didn't watch videos. I gave examples and showed that I did, and my point remained on all of them." And I say you didn't because you still brought up points that were not even relevant to the argument made. "You've called out nothing, because you're a fucking retard. lawl kill yourself." You were caught lying Mr. "I don't have a bias against law enforcement." #forsebbed. Trolly McDick Member Fri Dec 08 17:12:10 I also noticed that you shyed away from your "Given the totality of the situation:" #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Sat Dec 09 16:26:44 Trolly McDick Member Fri Dec 08 17:36:46 "Officers gave several conflicting commands. He obeyed their commands to approach slowly, crawling. He reached to pull up his pants. Now, a fucking retard might ignore every other situational point here, and assume that this was all a ruse to get the jump on six cops, but not all of us are fucking retards. He wasn't, he had no weapon, and we're assigning guilty-before-proven-innocent status to the victim. " How is it confusing. "Don't do that again, listen to my commands, come crawling towards me no sudden movement." Yes, so god damn confusing. how was it again? Why are you making shit up, forseb? "He reached to pull up his pants." A possibility yes in any given situation for anybody who suddenly reaches for their waistband. Is that the standard now forseb? Forseb logic at it again. "and assume that this was all a ruse to get the jump on six cops" SIX COPS! SIX COPS!! Never has a person done anyting like suicide by cop, NEVER HAS EVER HAPPENED, it is inconceivable that this could ever be a possibility! Why would anyone take a chance on trying to shoot SIX COPS!. Because shit happens forseb, shit happens. You're so forsebbed. "Please, peruse your Police One and LEO facebook groups for ONE instance of a suspect complying, approaching as commanding, sobbing and terrified of the hefty armed presence, then jumping up like Jason Bourne to get the drop on unsuspecting cops. Just one. Then I'll bow out and say you were completely right. Just one. " Apparently you've done the work for me because no matter the source where it comes from you will claim "POLICE SLANT BIAS RAWR!!" And there you go again with your stupid logic of "jason bourne" disregarding that someone would have the capability to reach for a gun or weapon while appearing compliant. If you watched the videos as you claimed, you would see there was that instance of someone complying and then pulling a weapon. But remember you claimed you watched the videos. I also called you on your bullshit and showed you were lying. As well as exploiting your "I am not bias against cops." "No. Unlikely. And anything bigger than a .25, you're going to see it. " LOL, you fucking fool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEYA3LcozqE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldltxeb_4GM Heed your advice forseb, kill yourself. "But it also doesn't raise any red flags, either. This guy had zero red flags of possible combative behavior. Zero. " Until he suddenly reached for his gym shorts, and police were called in regards to someone waving a gun. Forseb says: "That is completely not the point! ZERO RED FLAGS police were there just to harass people!" "He was prone, up until the last 10 seconds of his life. He was crossing his legs, he had his hands on his head, he had surrendered. Just cuff him. " So you admit that he wasn't prone at the time when he suddenly reached for his waistband of his shorts as you claimed before? Can't make up your mind forseb? Forseb says: "Again, let's ignore the fact that the police were called about a person with a weapon." "Nah, tell him to keep his hands straight up, then tell him to crawl. Not conflicting at all. " Seem pretty clear directions to me for him to follow it, as he did, up until he decided to suddenly reach for his waistband. But forseb has this revisionist logic. As he claimed that he was "low crawl" he was on all fours and not prone. And now says the commands were confusing and they weren't. Forseb, you're so forseb. "LOL. Which way was he facing, then?" Was he prone at the time forseb? That is what is inferred. http://www.google.com/search?q=face+down&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjap-b6yfvXAhWU14MKHQFZCvEQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1920&bih=974#imgdii=zveBnUhk5MDizM:&imgrc=3BQKqI597oG3QM Forseb now wants to claim that he was face down when was on: https://www.google.com/search?biw=1920&bih=974&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=eSErWsfoJ8u0jwSQwKDYDg&q=on+all+fours&oq=on+all+fours&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l4j0i30k1l4j0i24k1l2.126427.127623.0.128146.12.11.0.1.1.0.142.978.3j6.9.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.10.980...0i67k1.0.YsON3TVTBN8 #forsebbed. Trolly McDick Member Fri Dec 08 17:39:15 All fucking day forseb, all fucking day. Trolly McDick Member Fri Dec 08 17:42:29 "No. I said that they were unrelated to the OP for several reasons. I gave those reasons. When you tried to "call me out", I pointed to the first four videos and displayed, again, why they were not similar. " And you missed the point in regards to shoot and don't shoot scenarios and office assessing situations to make split-second decisions which are clearly indicated in the videos link making that point as you completed ignored. forsebbed. " False. The totality of the situation showed a man crossing his legs when commanded, putting his hands on his head when commanded, sitting up when commanded, crawling when commanded. He surrendered." Except when he was also given that command of no sudden movements and he...made a sudden move reaching for his waistband. This isn't hard to grasp. The video shows it. WAIT, you keep changing and making up shit as it goes. #forsebbed. All fucking day forseb, all fucking day. Trolly McDick Member Fri Dec 08 17:42:56 *videos linked making that point as you completely ignored. Trolly McDick Member Fri Dec 08 17:46:58 Come on you fucking forsebbing idiot, come on! Trolly McDick Member Fri Dec 08 17:47:47 "I'm gonna nip this in the bud" Yet, we are still here before you are forseb. #forsebbed. Trolly McDick Member Fri Dec 08 17:49:56 Actually take your time forseb, I am going to make some spaghetti. And then come destroy your stupid, idiotic forseb logic.
Trolly McDick Member	Sat Dec 09 16:27:54 Sat Dec 09 03:26:51 "No, you missed the point. You tried to make some point that cops sometimes have to make split-second decisions on lethal force against suspects. I agree! This absolutely happens, and in the first four videos you posted, we see four instances of clearly justifiable force." Yes, forseb that is the point. Because officers have to make split-second decisions. This was also one of those instances where the officer had to make the decision due to the sudden movement of suspect that reached for his waist of his shorts that can be articulated because of said subjects sudden movement the officer's perception was reasonable due to experiences and training that it was highly probable that suspect was reaching for something. You keep arguing "they were standing, they were standing" good for you, and not every case is going to be the same, but the sudden movement of people reaching for something is the point. In the instance of the videos you have a few that were compliant and then suddenly pull a firearm in an attempt to kill assault or kill an officer. Or do you want to keep lying that in one of the particular video there was a completely compliant subject until he pulled a gun out? Seriously forseb, you're pretty pathetic on this. "The problem, as I've brought up multiple times, is that in every one of these videos, the suspect was: a combination of fleeing and/or resisting, and every single one of them was on their feet." As said previously, some are pretty compliant(which is the point), up until they suddenly reached for something and started to pull/pull out a weapon (which is the point), and officers have to elect or make a split-second decision to respond (which is the point), to neutralize to what they perceive as a threat to them or others (which is the point). No, forseb, you keep missing the point. "You seem to think these facts are irrelevant. I wholly disagree. Someone fleeing from a cop is not the same as a dude laying down when asked, crossing his legs when asked, putting his hands on his head when asked, sitting up when asked, crawling while asked." He was not asked, he was direct, these were commands given by the officer(s) who were responding to a call that someone was waving a gun out of their window. Automatically the officers are going to be on guard due to 1) it has been established that guns were reported on the suspect so they will be on high alert. 2) Given instructions and commands to follow. 3) the female followed them and made it to where the officers and were apprehended. 4) The male though seemingly following the commands elected to as some point continue to make movements and gestures before even told to do them in the video. (though with forseb, you like to make shit up as it goes as you've been caught lying.) But in the moment he started to crawl on his knees he suddenly reached for his waistband. To which you arguing that it is practically impossible for anyone to hide a gun in their gym shorts. Unless it is a .25 caliber. Which is complete untrue and laughable. Once again you have forsebbed yourself. Stupid forseb. "He also instructed Shaver not to put his hands in the small of his back again - poor sap was desperate to be cuffed and get out of the situation - and he didn't. " Subjects also conceal weapons behind their backs, subject was not given the directives to put his hand behind his back, this is also one of their articulable moments that a subject may be reaching for something because it is out of line of sight for the officer and they perceive that the subject may be reaching for something. forsebbed again. stupid forseb. "LOL, you're fucking predictable, dude. 1) holsters 2) pants level at waist " "You can't hide guns in gymshorts" -forseb *shows guns being hidden in gymshorts" *forseb changes conditions in an attempt to support his claim* *forseb is stupid and wrong again* You claimed that guns could not be hidden in gymshorts, there are two examples of that occurring. Just because they used a holster for concealment doesn't negate the fact that the guns were hidden in the waistband and the likelihood can be the same situation with said subject. Once again forseb, since you like to play the "entirety of the situation" you conveniently ignore the fact why the cops were out there in the first place; "subject report to have guns." But no, no, forseb is going to play the "he was desperate and no one could ever hide a gun in gym shorts, it would be too bulgy, never could happen, he didn't make a sudden movement he was following directions to the 'T'." Oh except for the sudden movement reaching for the waistband of his shorts and automatically putting his hands behind his back when told not to. But, no, forseb is being forseb. Forsebbed. "You sound like a fucking Facebook Trumpette. A dude committing suicide by cop is going to cry, and beg over and over to not get shot? " Forseb interject points that is completely irrelevant again. Good job forseb, good job. "you sound like a cheerleader, rah, rah rah!" Yes, forseb, a person in a highly emotional state can act and say many things. It is all about the suddenty of the person and assessment of the situation 1) they may appear to be compliant, rational thinking at some point then 2) suddenly decide desperately to conduct an action. 3) If forseb actually watched the videos as he claimed he would see there was an instance of suicide by cop. The point was, as you seemingly forseb it to death, is that suspects can make up shit, use a ruse in an attempt to ambush cops. But, in forseb's world this never happens. Now I have to put a disclaimer for forseb, because he will take this completely away from the point. I am not inferring that could have been entirely the intent of this said person who was shot. But it is definitely a possibility in the realm of officer's perception. Also in forseb's world there is no possible way that a subject could be in an highly emotional state going through a wave of emotions up and down, especially being suicidal while determining how they should end their lives. It's like forseb can't entertain the thought that in murder-suicide situations the a person could be crying then ultimately kill someone or groups of people then turn the gun on themselves. Highly impossible in forseb's mind. Nope can't happen. Presumed compliance what is that? Adios Mio, forseb! You are a special kind of stupid aren't you? "This is what I mean by the totality of the situation. All you're considering is HURR HE PUT HIS HAND UP. You ignore everything else, unless it's a mitigating circumstance for the cop - not the victim. " Not ignoring "everything else." So far forseb you've lied and have made false claims. Once, you said he was on a low-crawl or proned when he was shot and was completely compliant with the directives given where in reality he was not and made sudden movements and was told not to do so, but the suspect did anyway which to an officer would highly alert him and make him suspicious especially in regards to what they were there for initially, (man waving gun). You claim that you have watched the videos and then continuously lied about the contents of video using it as manipulation to change the conditions to avoid the point that was made. Especially in regards to suspects complying then suddenly attempt to assault an officer. Then you claimed that you do not have a bias against police, while you ridicule a site that is a resource for law enforcement or those whom are interested because you believe there is a "slant" towards it without even reading the content or researching the site itself. Then you claimed that there is no possible way for a gun to be hidden in gymshorts, unless it is a .25 caliber. Then you claim that it is impossible for cops to be basically ambushed or that suspects could never use a ruse to ambush cops. You claimed that because a suspects friend was handcuff and complied that it also means that the suspect himself will always do the same. Yeah, you're pretty fucking forsebbed. #forsebbed Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 03:45:15 I can imagine that forseb being put through "shoot and dont shoot" scenario trainings and get shot and killed each time. Lol Forseb: "im just waiting to see wht he had, he was appearing to be compliant, and because of that I let my guard down, I presumed compliance, who knew he was hiding a weapon to hurt me. I can afford those few extra seconds. Oops im dead." #forsebbed.
Trolly McDick Member	Sat Dec 09 16:28:20 Sat Dec 09 03:54:42 And I will go ahead and predict forseb's responses; *insert 4chan antics* "but, but, but, but he was doing they told him and was "totally, utterly compliant" I am going to ignore the times where he made sudden movements and did something he was not directed or commanded to do" "but, but, he was sobbing and crying, suspects never sob and cry and it is impossible and inconceivable for them to ever do anything heinous or assaultive." "you showed videos of people non-complying and resisting, while I ignore the other videos that show the person complying then suddenly try to assault officers, only because that never happens." "you showed holsters being used in gym shorts, that isn't what meant, I was meaning that you can't hide guns in shorts in a "normal" way, you just have a holster or a '.25 caliber' to hide a gun in gym shorts." "you used a site that is law enforcement related so it must be a circle-jerk site." "The cop used confusing commands, even though they were step by step commends and I ignore sentences and semi-colons and periods and things. it's like he was trying to confuse him. Things like 1,2,3 is an anomaly." "I am going to use the totality of the situation argument, but I complete ignore the totality of the situation, like the reason for the cops being there in the first place." Yeah, that pretty much covers what you're going to say or do next forseb. #forseb. Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 03:57:49 "I can imagine Trolly shooting the pregnant woman because that stomach could be fake to conceal a weapon. Oh well. At least he went home safe. Muh thin blue line! " http://bea...ls-gun-cops-kids-good-options/ LOL LOL LOL #forsebbed
Trolly McDick Member	Sat Dec 09 16:29:26 Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:02:15 http://www...cocaine-inside-fake-baby-bump/ forseb says: "no one would ever hid something in a fake pregnancy belly" Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:04:06 http://met...-under-his-huge-belly-5394978/ forseb says: "this is impossible no one would ever had a gun using their body, especially their fat" Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:06:12 http://www...hid-gun-his-flab/#.Wiu1e0xFw0Q forseb says: "I don't believe this sorcery, people would not do such a thing." Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:09:57 "And here's where you nail down your thought process, again. IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE SO WE SHOULD TREAT THIS SCENARIO JUST LIKE IT THAT BELLY COULD BE SHE COULD BE SUICIDAL WE'RE ALL MOMENTS AWAY FROM A FIREFIGHT REEEEEE For another example of your retardation: Where's the Youtube holster? Clearly there's no difference, right? When I'm specifically talking about this case, it's shifting the goalposts, right? Where is it? http://imgur.com/a/xsDLZ " Lulz at you saying I move the goalpost where you have the entire time done it through the course of this thread, forseb. And now you are using the "I am talking about this particular incident and where is the gun, there is not gun." While you continuously ignore the fact that an officer's reasonable perception that it is all highly likely that he may have had a gun on him in his waistband and suddenly went for it. But, no, forseb says: "you can't hide guns in gym shorts, it is impossible, except for only .25 caliber guns." #forsebbed Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:10:52 Now forseb is upset. #forsebbed. Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:12:42 forseb says: "I hate cops and all cops, but I have no bias again cops." Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:13:35 forseb says: "Remember, just because incidents happened, they should never be a teachable or training moment at all. Because it is impossible that any other suspect would do the same as in this situation." Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:14:52 forseb says: "Look, no gun in the photo on the suspect, that mean the cop was wrong, as I ignore the sudden movements reaching for an area where a gun could have been concealed and used again the officer. I will ignore officer reasonable perception and ignore the theory of presume compliance." Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:15:31 forseb says: "I ignore logic because you know, my bias against cops." Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:16:06 forseb says: "ever since I got that dear john letter and my wife left me because she was fucking a cop, I hate cops for the rest of my life." Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:16:44 forseb says: "There juries, always protecting cops, I am so mad at juries!" Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:17:19 forseb says: "No suspect would ever use a ruse or trick cops to ambush them, it has never happen in the history of crime." Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:17:37 # Trolly McDick Member Sat Dec 09 04:17:48 forsebbed.
	show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message: