Utopia Talk / Politics / Star Wars

Asgard Member	Mon Dec 25 00:55:56 Ok, so I know we had a thread about it already, but I want to bring up a very important note. If Admiral Holdo kept it a secret from everyone that the transport ships will 1) be used for planetfall on a deserted base, and 2) be cloaked - and we know for a fact her plan was revealed to Poe only after he sent Rose and Fynn to Las Vegas... Then how the effing fuck did Benicio del Cracker sell the transports' cloaking data to the First Order? And how the fuck did Rose and Fynn acted so angrily as if they knew about it? H-O-W?
Hrothgar Member	Mon Dec 25 01:05:47 Bad script writing
The Children Member	Mon Dec 25 01:36:25 he heard about it durin a call between finn and poe. as for da data, since he a master cracker, we just need 2 assume he has that shit.
Asgard Member	Mon Dec 25 04:00:45 he cannot have "that shit" light years away. seems to be they re-wrote the script multiple times and forgot to patch this part. Maybe they just decided to go with it despite of being a huge plot hole otherwise the whole story falls apart.
jergul large member	Mon Dec 25 05:53:12 He sold the existence of cloaked ships. Imperial scanners took it from there. All stealth is conditional.
jergul large member	Mon Dec 25 05:53:43 You have to get your suspension of disbelief fixed.
Hrothgar Member	Mon Dec 25 14:44:27 There is a lot of shitting on the movie, but really, it was a fun watch mostly. Leah force flying back to the ship odd. Crazy ass Yoda burning down Jedi artifacts odd. Luke Skywalker's behavior and transcendence, pretty shitty. Ok. But it was still a pretty fun ride. I'm sure I'll see it more in my life.
CrownRoyal Member	Mon Dec 25 15:33:30 ok, I just watched it. There are some great shots, a pleasant experience overall, but this is a mediocre movie.
CrownRoyal Member	Mon Dec 25 15:35:43 the one shot where Laura Dern put the ship in warp drive and rammed the Empire vessel. I liked that one
CrownRoyal Member	Mon Dec 25 15:41:14 who is going to be the evil villain in the next installment, with Snoke gone? You have to have one like that. Emperor, Darth Sidious type
Seb Member	Mon Dec 25 17:07:26 CR: I think they are going a different way. Rather than the Machinean world of the first trilogy, I think they are saying there is good and evil inside everyone. Not only then is there no need for an absolute good (Luke, Yoda) or an absolute bad (Darth Sideous, Snoke), it actually detracts from the shifting balance of good and evil in both Rey and Kylo Ren. I think they are about to go in a very different direction. I find Kylo Ren more believable than Anakin in the prequel. Also, that shot with the cruiser hitting the capital ship at hyperspace was amazing. Really felt like I imagine a hyper-velocity collision would look like. Though given you can stick hyperdrives on xwings, it does make one wonder why war is conducted via hyperspace missiles. Hey ho - nobody sees star wars for consistent physics.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Dec 25 18:07:58 "Though given you can stick hyperdrives on xwings, it does make one wonder why war is conducted via hyperspace missiles." This same supposed plot hole was regurgitated on Reddit pretty quickly after the movie had been in theaters, so this sounds derivative and late. People there seemed not to notice that this same "plot hole" existed well before purple-haired puppet character used it. .. "But it was still a pretty fun ride. I'm sure I'll see it more in my life." Definitely not the case for me. I mentioned this in Movie Talk, but there was only one moment in the entire movie that I enjoyed — Leia's momentary loss of hope. I wish they could have stretched that out for longer (though maybe in a way they did by removing all hope for this franchise?). It seemed like every time something was starting to take off (like a plot direction or a character development), it was immediately undermined by some dumb effect or child's joke. The director simply could not clear the screen.
Forwyn Member	Mon Dec 25 18:30:43 Star Wars received critical acclaim, mediocre-bad movie. Bright was universally panned, pretty bad-ass movie. Critics are useless, stop paying hipsters to give their shitty opinions.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Mon Dec 25 19:17:04 "mediocre-bad movie." true dat. putin strikes again.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Dec 25 21:02:15 "Critics are useless, stop paying hipsters to give their shitty opinions." +1 And here I've been giving away my shitty opinions for free for years! Time to reform? ;D Star Wars Episode VIII was amazing!!! Best movie of the year! A non-stop thrill ride!! You'll be on the edge of your seat!! *gets paid*
Seb Member	Tue Dec 26 01:43:39 CC: I am shocked, shocked to discover that more than one person on had the same idea in this establishment. I always ignored the possibility of direct collisions as the ship was "in hyperspace". Showing it on screen creates big plot holes (hyper drive support ships into snokes ship straight off, one man suicide with reasonable probability of decapitation, and a good chance of taking out their ability to follow. The original trilogy is full of junk too (why is there a monster in the death Star trash compactor? Why is there atmosphere in a giant space worm? How does Luke learn to be a Jedi in the time it took to Han and co to go from Hoth to cloud city? People are more forgiving of movies they first saw as kids. At some level, one views them always partly through the eyes of a child and retain suspended disbelief in ways you just don't for newer ones.
jergul large member	Tue Dec 26 05:52:54 Technically, it was transitioning to hyperspace. I would think of it as a mass issue otherwise - shields can deal with low mass items at any velocity. the hypercrash only works with massive stuff. Suspension of disbelief. Everything is crap without it.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Dec 26 08:50:59 It used to be that a mere sequel sucked coconuts. Consider yourself lucky that tr Wars has held up as well as it has.
Seb Member	Tue Dec 26 14:31:34 Jergul: Even so, battle of Yavin when the DS is blowing up cruisers. Why not suicide one into the laser dish etc. etc. Sure, we can make up explanations. But this is the split between hard sci-fi and fantasy. It's not the window dressing but how rigorous you sick to your world's rules and let that shape the plot. Whether swords and sorcery or lasers and spaceships. I do think that with the higher quality of drama and relative ease of access to communities wishing to discuss movies to death, the market (even young demographics) maybe demanding more from plotting and internal consistency than in the 80s.
Aeros Member	Tue Dec 26 14:57:14 If you weaponize hyperspace you pretty much ruin the existing combat mechanics of the Star Wars Universe. The Frontiers Saga does a really good job of showing how warfare works in an environment where you can weaponize faster then light projectiles. Needless to say its not pretty. The weapons are essentially the space version of nuclear WMD's. A 50 Pound Uranium slug accelerated to even 1C (Let alone multiples of light speed) can shatter an entire planet. The kinetic (and relativistic) forces involved are IMMENSE. It literally renders both Deathstars obsolete and irrelevant.
Aeros Member	Tue Dec 26 15:04:43 A relativistic projectile hitting a planet would instantly strip the atmosphere. Since its also pushing newtonian and einsteinian physics to the breaking point, it will actually hit the planet before the planet itself feels the effects in its own timeline. Meaning the projectile will pass through a good part of the planet before it actually "hits", and when the effects are finally translated into kinetic energy the object may not even be in the planet anymore and already passed by it depending on how fast its going. Which means the planet would not be "blown" up so much as literally ripped apart inside out as the space-time within the planet is ripped through the surface of the planet and for a few nano-seconds the inner core of the planet would be ABOVE the Planet right before space time snaps back like a rubber band, causing a gravitic shockwave that would pretty much turn the planet into its constituent atoms.
Seb Member	Tue Dec 26 15:53:59 Aeros: Um, that's not ...
Aeros Member	Tue Dec 26 15:58:30 Largely conjecture because we really don't have the math to explain just what would happen if a super luminal projectile goes through something like a planet, but we can make some guesses.
Seb Member	Tue Dec 26 16:38:59 Super luminal no, but high relativistic, yes.
Aeros Member	Tue Dec 26 17:58:40 My post was about superluminal. Which is what they did in this movie.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Dec 26 18:24:36 Now I don't know, or rather hardly anything, about physics, but it sounds like Aeros has the right idea. picture The Mercury Capsule re-entering the earth's atmosphere. Obviously, there is heat and friction as the capsule enters and it increases the thicker the atmosphere. Aeros - A relativistic projectile hitting a planet would instantly strip the atmosphere. Since its also pushing newtonian and einsteinian physics to the breaking point, it will actually hit the planet before the planet itself feels the effects in its own timeline. Meaning the projectile will pass through a good part of the planet before it actually "hits", and when the effects are finally translated into kinetic energy the object may not even be in the planet anymore and already passed by it depending on how fast its going." Sounds logical, but as Aeros has pointed out, the math is not here yet. Now is the time for you to have a good laugh. BTW, I have not seen the movie.
werewolf dictator Member	Tue Dec 26 19:36:22 the falcon was flying at sublight speeds from hoth to asteroids to cloud city.. even though they sometimes traveled fast enough for significant time dilation for occupants of ship it was still sublight travel to different star systems.. so at least months of jedi training went by for luke [and similar for rebel fleet] while falcon was flying around just like it seems in the movie the trash “monster” grew from small egg [or something] to larger “monster” by eating organic soup in trash compactor.. it’s like why there is lots of maggots crawling around in a pot of food left alone for awhile
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 26 23:13:01 "I am shocked, shocked to discover that more than one person on had the same idea in this establishment." And I'm shocked if this wasn't another of your derivative ideas! Shocked! You even make the same "plot hole" mistakes, like you're just reading a little further down on a Reddit forum or something. But okay, if it wasn't derivative, it was just erroneous via its disregard for Star Wars canon. .. "Showing it on screen creates big plot holes (hyper drive support ships into snokes ship straight off, one man suicide with reasonable probability of decapitation, and a good chance of taking out their ability to follow." False. Not a plot hole to show it on screen (either it's a plot hole of the entire series from Episode IV onward, or it's not a plot hole — hyper-drive was present throughout). Focusing on the cultural aspect, consider real-life Earth history. It was very effective for Greek ships to do battle by smashing into each other and/or boarding. Modern ships did away with that or minimized it — the fire power of ships became too great, and boarding was no longer (as) possible. Yet, in World War II, the Japanese still decided to "one man suicide" their planes to take out carrier towers. Why weren't the Americans and Brits doing that to the same degree? Oh yeah, because it's fucking crazy. If people can default to projectile weapons — even knowing that Kamikaze missions can work — they will default to the projectiles rather than make suicide attacks. Back to the movie, this makes perfect sense for the rebels who have been totally outnumbered: they cannot sacrifice their individuals for these big moves because not enough rebels would be left to carry the rebel spark, and the rebel spark is not just a numbers game (e.g., like the soulless game/calculation wherein one rebel suicide could stop x number of ships) — it's a matter of surviving against the odds to keep that "hope" BS alive. They even addressed this in the scene where fat&ugly&short girl saves Finn. She tells Finn that the rebels can't just go on Kamikaze missions like purple-haired gimmick lady; they have to save who they can so that the resistance can survive (i.e., the rebels do not have a distorted Bushidō culture which glorifies suicidal moves). That scene right there is why we probably will not see another hyper-drive suicide attack committed by the rebels in this franchise. Another reason it's not a plot hole: shields and hyper-drive attack defenses. In some of the Star Wars canon they've gone into specific modifications and ships which defend against hyper-drive attacks. But even forgetting that, in Last Jedi they significantly played up the shielding capabilities of the larger ships. As per the established canon, high-speed, small projectiles cannot penetrate the shields of these larger ships. That may not be consistent with our real-life physics (though we do not have advanced shield tech), but it's consistent with Episode VIII and even with Episode IV's rebel offensive against the Death Star and Episode VI's offensive against the second Death Star (the large sizes of the Death Stars were themselves a show of the Death Stars' high shielding power; extra protection against even large ship hyper-drive attacks). That's why smaller ships had to *reduce* speed to slip inside the shields (which happened in Episode VIII and Episode IV, as well as thematically in Episode VI). A smaller ship using a hyper-drive attack would explode on the shield surface, which means that an X-Wing cannot just crash into Snoke's throne room after launching from another galaxy; a small ship would need to slip inside the shields at low speed and charge its hyper-drive while surviving attacks from the larger ship's surface turrets (never mind that once the small ship begins charging its hyper-drive the larger ship would be alerted and the smaller ship would thus be subject to even more attacks, as in Episode VIII and as shown by a ship which breached the shields of the Super Star Destroyer in Episode VI). That is why it took purple-haired gimmick lady using the main (large) ship to make anyone think that a hyper-drive attack was even something that they needed to worry about. This also introduces another point: even if fat&ugly&short girl had not disapproved of suicide tactics and thematically ended the idea of rebel Kamikaze attacks as she did, the rebels simply do not have enough large ships to make these moves often. The Star Wars physics have stated that it takes large ships to make hyper-drive attacks against large ships, and the rebels in Episode VIII only had one such ship — only one ship could carry out this attack, and it did, and culturally the rebels do not want to do it again. Thus, not a plot hole. TLDR: I'm all for trashing this new franchise, but the hyper-drive crash was not one of the fuck-ups of Episode VIII. ...Just let myself get dragged into a long explanation which will inevitably fall deaf onto a dissimulating mind... time to go back to not reading Seb posts.. :/
Seb Member	Wed Dec 27 02:43:43 CC: You got me CC. I'm copy pasting Reddit to utopia. Jog on.
Seb Member	Wed Dec 27 02:45:29 Werewolf: If one can make up explanations for the oddities in the first trilogy, then one can make up explanations for pretty much anything in the Disney versions, no?
jergul large member	Wed Dec 27 03:29:06 At least you erred on the right side of order of magnitudes Aeros. Underestimating F is a pet peeve of mine.
jergul large member	Wed Dec 27 03:30:50 Though DU is way overspecified. A kg of down feathers traveling at relativistic speeds Gives same effect.
Seb Member	Wed Dec 27 06:02:25 Jergul: You remember the atomic rocket space warfare site I posted (distressingly, possibly as much as ten years ago)? They had a unit - I think it was ricks or something - based on when an object of X masses kinetic energy exceeded that of the potential yield of a nuclear weapon of the same mass. I.e. if you can go at x% c, your weapons pack y ricks.
Seb Member	Wed Dec 27 07:21:40 Ah found it http://www...tml/rocket/spacegunconvent.php Turns out it was non relativistic and based on tnt
Seb Member	Wed Dec 27 07:45:02 This on relativistic weapons. public_html/rocket/spacegunexotic.php#id--Relativistic_Weapons Link therein to hypervelocity collisions. Depending on exact specifics of velocity and mass (well, really energy - it all comes down to energy) any relativistic weapon is going to look like a fuck ton of nuclear weapons. But to shatter a planet, well, you need to have the energy to shatter a planet. Once you have that kind of energy, how you deliver that energy isn't so important.
jergul large member	Wed Dec 27 11:19:31 Seb A shit ton of nuclear weapons aint much as we both know. We are still ants admiring the strength of a magnifying glass.
Hrothgar Member	Wed Dec 27 12:40:15 To get Jergul fired up you'd need to build a fully automatic star launcher that's munitions go super nova on impact. Planet levels of destruction are meaningless in the galactic scale!
jergul large member	Thu Dec 28 02:21:33 Hrothgar Scale it down a bit. Global warming scares me. Try comparing the energy content of 5K increase at equilibrium (fully absorbed into the 1000 year ocean cycle) to the truly trivial energy output of the global nuclear arsenal. I have incidentally been speaking of kinetic impactors enroute for a while now (the only reasonable response to our careless broadcasts on the radio spectrum is a fully automated kinetic response).
jergul large member	Thu Dec 28 02:22:19 In sum: You are mistaking to toppling of an anthill to the destruction of a world.
Paramount Member	Thu Dec 28 10:44:39 So I finally got around to watch this shit. In IMAX 3D! But I don’t know. There wasn’t any nudity or romance. The only romance we got was when Rose kissed Finn after she saved his life. Other than that, no one got laid or anything. There was also too much explosions, violence and killings. This isn’t what we should teach our children. Seb, ”Rather than the Machinean world of the first trilogy, I think they are saying there is good and evil inside everyone.” I was thinking about that too. If this movie is trying to pardon Trump. If it is a propaganda movie or not. Maybe they want us to see that there is good in fascism too. Maybe they are hoping that with this movie more people will come to accept fascism as something that can be okay. — I don’t know. The movie was entertaining, but I feel like that they should have left every character from the original trilogy out of this story. The Star Wars saga ended back when Darth Vader died. Luke, Leia and Han, lived happily forever after in their galaxy which was at peace after the empire was crushed. This is what really happened. What they are telling now in these new movies is not right. Sure, they can make new star wars movies all they like, but keep them in another galaxy and leave MY star wars, Luke, Leia and Han alone. Also, how could Leia survive in space after she got blasted with a very powerful lase cannon? In space you freeze and suffocate to death in an instant. She floated there for several minutes, she also had no scratch on her body, no torn limbs or anything after the explosion. Then all of a sudden she awakes and points onward with her finger and she starts to fly like Superman. Wtf?
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Dec 28 12:01:35 Don't bother trying to apply logic to VII and and VIII, lol.
Seb Member	Thu Dec 28 16:21:18 Paramount: I don't think its about Trump. I think its trying to be more sophisticated than good vs evil. Arguably theres a strong undercurrent that the new republic, jedi and resistance failed because the stark good vs evil context led to moral confusion and conflated identity with morals. Which is good criticism of trumpism.
Asgard Member	Sat Dec 30 05:54:18 "I have incidentally been speaking of kinetic impactors enroute for a while now (the only reasonable response to our careless broadcasts on the radio spectrum is a fully automated kinetic response). " I doubt our broadcasts can be picked up at a distance where percievable other lifeforms exists. Even if it's alpha centaury, it's still gonna be an extremely weak and insiginifcant signal.
Asgard Member	Sat Dec 30 06:04:06 "Why weren't the Americans and Brits doing that to the same degree? Oh yeah, because it's fucking crazy. If people can default to projectile weapons — even knowing that Kamikaze missions can work — they will default to the projectiles rather than make suicide attacks." CC, that did not stop American forces from making stupid suicide missions (the suicide here means the almost certainty of death). Like sending bombers from an aircraft carrier to drop a few bombs on Tokyo at the early stages of the pacific campaign... the mission was to simply say "we can", and had no effect in real life.
hood Member	Sat Dec 30 15:18:11 "that did not stop American forces from making stupid suicide missions" There's a difference between the colloquial "suicide mission" (YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO DIE! THE ODDS ARE HIGH! [never tell me the odds]) and actual kamikaze attacks (you actually, purposefully kill yourself to do damage to the enemy). To my knowledge, the US forces never directly ordered their soldiers to go kill themselves in attacking the enemy. They put them in harms way, where it was incredibly likely that the soldiers would die, but not actual kamikaze tactics. I have to agree with CC on the stance that this movie sucked. It was just an incredibly bad amalgam of episode 4, 5 and 6. There was an incredible amount of ridiculous stupidity involved. Finding a "master hacker"? Awful. Having to outsource to solve your problem? Similarly bad. Boiling down the conflict between the First Order and the Resistance to an uneventful car chase? Snore worthy. The plot was convoluted, it was horrible, dialog choices throughout the movie were cringe worthy, references to "hip" culture made me want to "not even" (or something). Just a bad movie altogether. While episodes 1-3 were pretty bad, I can forgive them their faults for at least being star wars-y. This was generic action flick with star wars skins. It's like playing Stellaris with the 40k reskin or the star trek reskin. If you try really hard, you can see the outer coating of reference to the universe you like, but any real glimpse into it and you see it just isn't very deep. "Also, how could Leia survive in space after she got blasted with a very powerful lase cannon? In space you freeze and suffocate to death in an instant" Leia is a force user. It has been established in previously canon star wars plots that Jedi can preserve themselves on mere scraps of oxygen, can withstand extreme conditions for a briefly limited time. It may be shocking to a casual fan, but it made sense within old canon. It is something Disney decided would stay canon. "Then all of a sudden she awakes and points onward with her finger and she starts to fly like Superman." Even a cursory knowledge of physics should explain this. Leia "pulled" on the cruiser with her force powers. Yet because of the size of the cruiser and the fact that she was in space, the force she exerted on the cruiser was minuscule, while the force she experienced was greater. It's like a collision between a large and small object. They both feel the same force, but because of the mass, their accelerations are different.
Hrothgar Member	Sat Dec 30 17:34:52 Yeah sure from a physics stand point it can make sense. But the scene was still implemented in just a ... weird way. Would have been far better to have her somehow save some or all of the bridge crew members with the force instinctively after it was breached, and exhausting her grandma aged self in the process, to end up in the hospital. But really I would have overlooked all of that if they would have just done Luke as his hopeful, wise, jedi master self with one last force induced, light saber wielding ass kicking left in him. Instead we got... well you know.
Asgard Member	Sun Dec 31 00:58:07 SAD. SO SAD.
Seb Member	Sun Dec 31 04:21:36 Did luke ever actually ever win a light saber duel in the original trilogy? He lost to the drone. He lost to Vader and got his hand cut off. He got lightninged to near death. He was always a bit of a dork.
Seb Member	Sun Dec 31 04:22:12 Oh, yeah, he beat the yeti thing. Eventually.
Asgard Member	Sun Dec 31 12:10:53 maybe he sucks with a sword, but he got bull's eye on the Death Star
Wrath of Orion Member	Sun Dec 31 13:00:20 "Did luke ever actually ever win a light saber duel in the original trilogy? He lost to the drone. He lost to Vader and got his hand cut off. He got lightninged to near death." Do you mean a fight where he was using a light saber against any opponent, or an actual light saber duel where both were using a light saber? Your examples say the first, so... Luke defeated Vader in VI (the only duel he won). Luke defended against, and then took out, a speeder bike in VI. Luke wiped out a bunch of people at the Great Pit of Carkoon in VI.
hood Member	Sun Dec 31 13:04:38 "He lost to Vader and got his hand cut off. He got lightninged to near death." So he lost to the most powerful sith lord ever (Sideous/Palpatine) and he lost to the most powerful force user ever (vader)? Oh noes!
Forwyn Member	Sun Dec 31 13:08:26 Eh. Even Vader was 3/6 in the movies. Lost to Dooku. Won against Dooku. Lost to Obiwan. Beat Obiwan. Beat Luke. Lost to Luke.
Wrath of Orion Member	Sun Dec 31 13:16:35 Yeah, and Luke was never intended to be some kind of "teh bestest Jedi evar" character. How could he have been? He never had the benefit of truly proper training - he got what ancient Yoda could give him in the short time they had. So he never should be able to defeat Palpatine or Vader in V. In VI you could probably say that Vader didn't really have his heart in the fight, or he was just old, or Luke's emotions won him that fight, or whatever. All of which makes you wonder just how good Luke's training of anyone else would have been - probably not very good at all.
Wrath of Orion Member	Sun Dec 31 13:17:18 Which gives us... Emo Vader.
Seb Member	Sun Dec 31 14:15:34 I forgot he actually won against Vader. It's been about twenty years since I last saw rotj. It's fair to say though, luke was never portrayed as some super strong badass. Just, the last person strong enough in the force that Obi wan came across (when he wasn't trying very hard to look) at a time of imminent final, irreversible victory for the empire.
Seb Member	Sun Dec 31 14:16:29 Also, Vader in the end is a quadriplegic in life support.
Seb Member	Sun Dec 31 14:18:17 Obi wan a geriatric. And palpetine was killing luke with ease until Vader chucked him down a pit. Palpetine should have put more XP into levitation and less into death lightning
Seb Member	Sun Dec 31 14:21:07 And Yoda clearly thought they might be better off with Leia. Which is not a bad judgement looking how things panned out.
chuck Member	Sun Jan 07 17:38:27 Finally saw this. Can confirm, bad movie. In a matter of what, weeks, the story jumps from a proxy war between the Republic-backed Resistance and the First Order to "The FIRST ORDER reigns" in the title scroll. Why do this? It's not consistent with the story. The only reason for this is because out-of-universe it's hard to make an ass-ton of movies out of what amounts to a bush war in the backward spiral arms of the galaxy. So what we get is a reboot in all but name, with everything turned up to 11 to suit modern sensibilities. It took Luke three years of practice to be able to lift a rock? Well Rey is even specialerer, so she can lift hundreds of boulders two weeks after she heard of the force. Various and sundry complaints: - the hangar fight with the backdrop of CGI explosions and fiery inferno could have come from any recent superhero movie. This one goes to 11! - the Imperial ships (who apparently aren't low on space fuel) quiescently follow the Resistance ships instead of making a short jump to catch up with them. This gives time for the amazing casino planet plotline that fans were clammering for. - gravity bombs in space - everybody who uses the Force is the most powerful person to ever use the Force - "cloaking" And then there are articles defending it, pointing out the need for "fresh IP for the franchise" and "the realities of the movie business". You can't fault people for trying to make as much money as possible off of any economically exploitable resource you damned pinko!
Seb Member	Mon Jan 08 12:33:36 Chuck: In the first movie, starkiller base nuked the five planets in the capital system of the republic plus it's fleet in orbit. Understand the backstory to the resistance is that Mon Motha and co disbanded most of the rebels military as they hugely underestimated how powerful the new order was and had a morbid fear that the empire grew out of the old republic developing a central military capability. It's not crazy to think that after a planet busting decapitation, the republic has lost almost all organised political and military capability allowing the new order to defeat in detail individual systems. Compare to the fall of France in WW2 even though on paper Britain and France had numbers and firepower. Germans had better morale, coordination, tactics and superior kit.
Seb Member	Mon Jan 08 12:35:51 There were "gravity bombs" in empire strikes back you know. Besides, how does the AG work for star destroys? Perhaps that's what draws the bombs? Or they just get shoved out. Complaining about that in a universe that uses space magic seems daft.
hood Member	Mon Jan 08 14:12:56 Starkiller base was a fucking abomination. Yet ep7 was decent in spite of that crippling plot detail. Ep 8 was just bad throughout.
Seb Member	Mon Jan 08 16:28:24 I thought 8 better than 7 for it's willingness to break with the past. I did feel the side quest do get a hacker a bit of a distraction - bit there was a much clearer set of themes running through it.
Seb Member	Wed Jan 10 06:23:13 https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950744233522077697?ref_src=twcamp%5Eshare%7Ctwsrc%5Em5%7Ctwgr%5Eemail%7Ctwcon%5E7046%7Ctwterm%5E1 Interesting take on Canto Bight
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