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Utopia Talk / Politics / Trumpicantards in SC...
FoxNEWS
Member
Wed Jan 03 14:26:35
Commissioned this month for monuments dedicated to black confederate soldiers in South Carolina. But there weren't any in South Carolina.

Trumpicantards rejoice at their retardation.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Jan 03 15:06:32
can always go with a fake monument like Trump has on his golf course
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Jan 03 15:10:55
"In all my years of research, I can say I have seen no documentation of black South Carolina soldiers fighting for the Confederacy," Edgar told The State newspaper in Columbia, South Carolina. "In fact, when secession came, the state turned down free (blacks) who wanted to volunteer because they didn't want armed persons of color."

http://www...erate-monument-trnd/index.html

so have a monument to the theoretical black volunteer soldiers... if they hadn't been afraid to arm the darkies
Forwyn
Member
Wed Jan 03 15:16:07
How accurate this listing is is up in the air, but...

Lots of cooks and musicians listed, at least

http://bla...th-carolina-state-records.html
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Jan 03 15:24:08
musicians & cooks don't need armed

my article did note:
"There were blacks in the Confederate army, but they were either slaves or free blacks forced to work without pay as cooks or servants, said Edgar, a professor emeritus at the University of South Carolina and author of "South Carolina: A History."
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 03 15:34:12
On the subject of Negro Confederate soldiers, I always found Jefferson Davis's State of the Union address on the issue to be interesting:

"President Jefferson Davis' Message to the Second Session of the Second Confederate Congress

Delivered in Richmond on November 7, 1864.

...The employment of slaves for service with the Army as teamsters or cooks, or in the way of work upon the fortifications, or in the Government workshops, or in hospitals and other similar duties, was authorized by the act of 17th of February last, and provision was made for their impressment to a number not exceeding 20,000, if it should be found impracticable to obtain them by contract with the owners. The law contemplated the hiring only of the labor of these slaves, and imposed on the Government the liability to pay for the value of such as might be lost to the owners from casualties resulting from their employment in the service.

This act has produced less result than was anticipated, and further provision is required to render it efficacious; but my present purpose is to invite your consideration to the propriety of a radical modification in the theory of the law.

Viewed merely as property, and therefore as the subject of impressment, the service or labor of the slave has been frequently claimed for short periods in the construction of defensive works. The slave, however, bears another relation to the State — that of a person. The law of last February contemplates only the relation of the slave to the master and limits the impressment to a certain term of service.

But for the purposes enumerated in the act, instruction in the manner of encamping, marching, and parking trains is needful; so that even in this limited employment length of service adds greatly to the value of the negro's labor. Hazard is also encountered in all the positions to which negroes can be assigned for service with the Army, and the duties required of them demand loyalty and zeal. In this respect the relation of person predominates so far as to render it doubtful whether the private right of property can consistently and beneficially be continued, and it would seem proper to acquire for the public service the entire property in the labor of the slave, and to pay therefor due compensation rather than to impress his labor for short terms; and this the more especially as the effect of the present law would vest this entire property in all cases where the slave might be recaptured after compensation for his loss had been paid to the private owner. Whenever the entire property in the service of a slave is thus acquired by the Government, the question is presented by what tenure he should be held. Should he be retained in servitude, or should his emancipation be held out to him as a reward for faithful service, or should it be granted at once on the promise of such service; and if emancipated, what action should be taken to secure for the freedman the permission of the State from which he was drawn to reside within its limits after the close of the public service? The permission would doubtless be more readily accorded as a reward for past faithful service, and a double motive for a zealous discharge of duty would thus be offered to those employed by the Government — their freedom and the gratification of the local attachment which is so marked a characteristic of the negro, and forms so powerful an incentive to his action. The policy of engaging to liberate the negro on his discharge after service faithfully rendered seems to me preferable to that of granting immediate manumission, or that of retaining him in servitude. If this policy should recommend itself to the judgment of Congress, it is suggested that, in addition to the duties heretofore performed by the slave, he might be advantageously employed as pioneer and engineer laborer, and in that event that the number should be augmented to 40,000.

Beyond these limits and these employments it does not seem to me desirable, under existing circumstances, to go. A broad moral distinction exists between the use of slaves as soldiers in defense of their homes and the incitement of the same persons to insurrection against their masters. The one is justifiable, if necessary, the other is iniquitous and unworthy of a civilized people; and such is the judgment of all writers on public law, as well as that expressed and insisted on by our enemies in all wars prior to that now waged against us. By none have the practices of which they are now guilty been denounced with greater severity than by themselves in the two wars with Great Britain, in the last and in the present century; and in the Declaration of Independence of 1776, when enumeration was made of the wrongs which justified the revolt from Great Britain, the climax of atrocity was deemed to be reached only when the English monarch was denounced as having "excited domestic insurrections amongst us."

The subject is to be viewed by us, therefore, solely in the light of policy and our social economy. When so regarded, I must dissent from those who advise a general levy and arming of the slaves for the duty of soldiers. Until our white population shall prove insufficient for the armies we require and can afford to keep in the field, to employ as a soldier the negro, who has merely been trained to labor, and as a laborer [under] the white man, accustomed from his youth to the use of firearms, would scarcely be deemed wise or advantageous by any; and this is the question now before us. But should the alternative ever be presented of subjugation or of the employment of the slave as a soldier, there seems no reason to doubt what should then be our decision. Whether our view embraces what would, in so extreme a case, be the sum of misery entailed by the dominion of the enemy, or be restricted solely to the effect upon the welfare and happiness of the negro population themselves, the result would be the same. The appalling demoralization, suffering, disease, and death which have been caused by partially substituting the invader's system of police for the kind relation previously subsisting between the master and slave have been a sufficient demonstration that external interference with our institution of domestic slavery is productive of evil only. If the subject involved no other consideration than the mere right of property, the sacrifices heretofore made by our people have been such as to permit no doubt of their readiness to surrender every possession in order to secure their independence. But the social and political question, which is exclusively under the control of the several States, has a far wider and more enduring importance than that of pecuniary interest. In its manifold phases it embraces the stability of our republican institutions, resting on the actual political equality of all its citizens, and includes the fulfillment of the task which has been so happily begun — that of Christianizing and improving the condition of the Africans who have, by the will of Providence, been placed in our charge. Comparing the results of our own experience with those of the experiments of others who have borne similar relation to the African race, the people of the several States of the Confederacy have abundant reason to be satisfied with the past, and will use the greatest circumspection in determining their course. These considerations, however, are rather applicable to the improbable contingency of our need of resorting to this element of resistance than to our present condition. If the recommendation above made, for the training of 40,000 negroes for the service indicated, shall meet your approval, it is certain that even this limited number, by their preparatory training in intermediate duties, would form a more valuable reserve force in case of urgency than threefold their number suddenly called from field labor, while a fresh levy could, to a certain extent, supply their places in the special service for which they are now employed."
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 15:36:23
...Of course the omitted context was that since the south was losing numbers and needed to replenish ranks this was an attempt of that late in the game.

Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 03 15:41:19
delude is seriously ready to pick a fight over anything and everything. We're all history nerds here genius, there isn't a single poster who reads "November 7, 1864" and doesn't realize that the Confederacy was in deep shit by that time.
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 15:42:15
Oh no, you're getting emotional again...calm down snowflake. Talk it out if you need to...
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 03 15:43:18
Everyone knows that arming the blacks was a last ditch effort. Doesn't change the fact that there were some (though not in SC apparently...leave it to that hyper racist state).
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 15:45:14
Yes, which was the point of the thread. Yet amazing how some are still trying to display "blacks were in the confederacy." Which it also can be put "everyone knows there were blacks in the confederacy."
The Third Reich
Member
Wed Jan 03 15:51:17
Um no not in my confederacy!
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Jan 03 15:52:11
history is not that important here...
Bill 'The Lyncher' Chumley & Mike 'Cross' Burns (the Republicans who came up with this idea) clearly want a token for the blacks so they can keep all the other stuff up
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 03 15:53:39
Pretty sure the point of the thread was that there were no blacks in the SC Confederacy. But there still blacks serving in the Army.

In any case, the argument of the SCers in the OP is dumb, but so is the current outrage machine they're fighting against. Viewed by 21sr century standards, virtually every white guy who was in involved in the Civil War was a racist piece of shit. If you're going to tear down Robert Lee's statues, you may as well tear down Abraham "Negroes are inferior creatures and interracial marriage is an abomination" Lincoln's as well
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 15:55:37
"pretty sure the point of the thread was that there were no blacks in the SC Confederacy"

Yes.

"(though not in SC apparently...leave it to that hyper racist state). "

Hence why my "yes."
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 16:01:05
""I think slavery is wrong, morally, and politically. I desire that it should be no further spread in these United States, and I should not object if it should gradually terminate in the whole Union.""

Definitely.
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 03 16:09:00
Taking a stance that falls short of abolitionism? Clearly hates black people.

In any case, imagine if a politician today had said:

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

Instant destruction of political career. Lincoln = racist, and no matter how many good things he did later in life he's still guilty.
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 16:10:42
Indeed.

http://www.snopes.com/did-lincoln-racism-equality-oppose/
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 16:15:03
I'm glad that you acknowledge he did good things but also at the same time is incapable of changing attitudes. As you ignore the culture and attitudes of the time. Great perspective.
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 03 16:19:08
Indeed.

"We spoke to Columbia University historian Eric Foner, author of several books on Lincoln, including The Fiery Trial: Abraham Lincoln and American Slavery.

“There’s no question that: one, before the Civil War, Lincoln hated slavery. He always did,” Foner told us:

*Two, he shared many of the prejudices of his society. That was a deeply racist society both north and south before the Civil War.*"

"As you ignore the culture and attitudes of the time."

Ah, so all of a sudden historical relativism exists. That's nice, maybe we can stop labeling every Southerner as 19th century Nazis then. Prevailing contemporary attitudes and all that.
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 16:19:33
the real much pervasive myth [hyped by liberals] is that negroes fought for union to any meaningful degree
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 16:21:58
"Ah, so all of a sudden historical relativism exists. That's nice, maybe we can stop labeling every Southerner as 19th century Nazis then. Prevailing contemporary attitudes and all that. "

Who has been doing that?
UP Factcheck
Member
Wed Jan 03 16:27:53
Rugian has mischaracterized the quote from the Lincoln-Douglas debates of 1858.

I would highly recommend reviewing the book.

http://boo...ry_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
RugianLovesTheCock
Member
Wed Jan 03 16:52:06
loving cock and taking things out of context
Forwyn
Member
Wed Jan 03 17:10:10
"Rugian has mischaracterized the quote from the Lincoln-Douglas debates of 1858."

Not really. Lincoln explicitly denied being an abolitionist, repeatedly, only arguing for "eventual" emancipation, of which he admitted he didn't really know how to go about it. He was a proponent of recolonization, but stated that overall it was largely impractical.

Both sides were clearly pragmatic. Lincoln issued the EP for the same reason the Confederacy allowed black soldiers - because it helped the war effort.
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 17:17:56
http://www.snopes.com/did-lincoln-racism-equality-oppose/

Did Abraham Lincoln Express Opposition to Racial Equality?
An authentic quote from Lincoln has attracted renewed attention, along with some commentary that oversimplifies his views on race.

In 1858, Lincoln expressed his opposition to racial equality and asserted the superiority of white people.

RATING
TRUE

_____

iow... up factcheck [like his flunky multi] is in even greater denial of history than the liberal fact-denying retards at snopes.. astounding
UP Factcheck
Member
Wed Jan 03 17:24:11
"Not really. Lincoln explicitly denied being an abolitionist, repeatedly, only arguing for "eventual" emancipation, of which he admitted he didn't really know how to go about it."

Yes he did. And to an extent Lincoln did not know exactly how to go. As did many others. Though Lincoln had expressed and kept the opinion that it should be gradually removed and not instantaneously.

"Both sides were clearly pragmatic. Lincoln issued the EP for the same reason the Confederacy allowed black soldiers - because it helped the war effort."

Yes, in an strategic move. This is not being disputed.

@werewolf dictator you have never contributed anything to this forum. Do no pretend you think you do.
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 17:51:57
i contributed to owning you here

last time i saw you from under your rock you were claiming “bogue” did not have plural when it clearly does as shown in dictionaries [which you also falsely claimed was not case]

this is 3 times you’ve been owned by me in last 2 times i encounter you
UP Factcheck
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:11:47
Which is false. But you enjoy your delusions.
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:18:25
http://www...hread?id=politics&thread=81331

“up factcheck” [who is sadly and constantly wrong on his supposed fact checking] is now owned 4 times in our last 2 encounters
UP Factcheck
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:21:06
Appears you lost. Again enjoy your delusions.
UP Factcheck
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:25:36
How funny that you try to bring up an old argument, in which you didn't prove anything. And yet ignore historical context to which the Lincoln-Douglas debates brought forth.

To me it appears that you are reaching. Which is all well and good. But you are also universally mocked by many posters on the forum here due to your "contributions" and your undying loyalty to the 'Russian and Trump' agenda. But I digress because this has been pointed out by many anyways. To which makes you a laughing stock and still mocked.
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:25:51
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bogue

3bogue
noun \ " \
Definition of bogue

plural -s
chiefly South & Midland
: a passage of water : stream

———

merriam webster dictionary dummy.. learn how to use it..

you and your fellow liberals were so owned in that previous linked thread it is embarrassing
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:27:56
why does someone named “up factcheck” interject himself into discussions making careless false claims pretending to coreect others

pathetic
UP Factcheck
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:30:26
Now he resorts to hijacking a thread with a moot point.
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:32:03
have you ever been right in your life
UP Factcheck
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:34:19
More so than your entire existence on this forum.
UP Factcheck
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:35:08
But do what you do and hijack a thread because you can't contribute anything.
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:43:00
He contributes by hijacking threads...
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 18:55:26
i contribute so much it is ridiculous

http://www...hread?id=politics&thread=80980

you guys are just mad because i always own you
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 19:11:53
Yes, we are mad because you are a putin fluffer and devoided of facts.
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 19:15:58
“devoided”

intelligence of liberal who worships malcolm x because for the last year of his life [under fear of assassination] he stopped calling white people devils and stopped praying for more planes filled with white people to crash
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 19:33:19
And typical putin fluffer bring unrelated points and making up lies about posters.
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 19:46:05
how am i a liar.. miss unintelligent “devoided”

let’s hear your [changed] opinion of malcolm x if it is not greatly positive
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:01:23
putin fluffer continues to lie. Just like his hero Trump
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:03:58
“devoided” lying about me lying

she knows she has written at length in praise of malcolm x
Trolly
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:04:10
oh werewolf dicktaster
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:04:50
putin fluffer continues to lie, not shocked.
Trolly
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:05:44
http://med...dimir-putin-horse-getty-11.jpg

LOL dicktaster swoons.
Trolly
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:07:43
http://que...18/Coz_b_9XEAATTRl-646x437.jpg

LOL dicktaster can't even lol
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:08:02
lmao!
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:09:15
“devoided” continues to lie about me lying [but won’t elaborate on any changed views of malcolm x since greatly praising him]

i am mildly surprised to find out that she is even worse human being than i had imagined [tough accomplishment]
Trolly
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:09:38
http://i.imgur.com/NKou8.jpg

dicktaster's delight.
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:10:18
Poor putin fluffer...can't even prove it.
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:10:45
all the liberals have to combat their continual ownage is homophobia about stupid untrue things
Trolly
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:11:03
http://bro...czz3vhyuaaad8w9-jpg-large.jpeg

dicktaster's fantasy
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:12:48
putin fluffer most probable jerking off to what trolly is posting.
Trolly
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:14:12
http://mem...to-invade-by-the-back-door.jpg

dicktaster's fantasy II
Trolly
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:15:32
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKSo9T0WAAEjfQ4.jpg

dicktaster may be jealous
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:15:41
this is pretty much the level of intelligence of this forum.. factcheckers who get all their facts wrong.. and homophobic trolls combining with women who barely speak english that worship creeps like malcolm x

it is compliment that i have this gang of idiots united against me
delude
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:16:51
yes, being called putin's fluffer is your ultimate aphrodisiac.
Trolly
Member
Wed Jan 03 20:18:06
http://pic...lster-mematic-net-19986758.png

on dicktaster's wall
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