Utopia Talk / Politics / I'm sick of the left's identity politics

Rugian Member	Mon Jan 15 09:41:29 Being black or female in America is not a hindrance against anyone. We as a country do not discriminate against blacks based on their race. Women in America are not only not oppressed in society, by many measures they're actually the best off out of anyone living here. I'm so fucking sick of hearing how blacks and women are victims in our country. They're just not. The only true privilege of any major significance is that of economic class. Class is far and away the primary indicator of whether you will succeed in America or not. A black female lesbian who comes from an upper middle class family will likely have access to a great university and career; conversely a straight white male from a dead-end hellhole has the deck stacked against him. If you are poor is of much more relevance than if you are black or female. This is the privilege that public and private institutions in our country SHOULD be trying to rectify. It is true that blacks are disproportionately more likely to be members of the poor classes. That is a situation that does need correcting, but at the same time we can't neglect others stuck in poverty merely because they happen to be white. Class-based affirmative action and other programs would still provide the same benefits to poor blacks that race-based programs currently do, but would also provide relief to poor non-blacks as well. By focusing on skin color, we miss the underlying cause of the problem, and many suffer as a result. When I was growing up in school, we were taught to be colorblind in regards to race and gender - that race was no more than a measure of a person's skin color, and gender was just a matter of biology. That philosophy has unfortunately been abandoned in recent years by the political left, the media and the educational system, who have instead adopted the divisive narrative that race and gender DO matter, and that whites and males are automatically oppressors merely based on their skin and genitals. Needless to say, this viewpoint is an incredibly harmful one. By focusing on identity politics, we are dividing Americans into tribes that constantly rival one another, making it if anything more difficult for us to move on from our darker past. The constant attack on whites has moreover caused a backlash, where there is a risk that more whites start defensively identifying themselves by their skin color where before they hadn't. Equally damaging is the institutionalization of policies designed explicitly to benefit or oppress depending on one's skin color or gender, which will damage America for decades and encourage further discrimination against the "majority," even as non-white Hispanics slip ever closer to becoming a minority themselves. Martin Luther King once famously said "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." The left needs to heed these words and realize that their current agenda puts them at the diametric opposite of this ideal. Happy MLK Day everyone. PS niggers faggots sluts
Dukhat Member	Mon Jan 15 09:42:24 Nobody will ever read this except maybe one of your alt-right cohorts.
hood Member	Mon Jan 15 09:44:13 Cannot tell if article or rugian rant.
Rugian Member	Mon Jan 15 09:46:39 Rant I'm bored
Forwyn Member	Mon Jan 15 10:38:09 Cultural Marxists are re-erecting the barriers that took generations to bring down. How Colorblindness Is Actually Racist http://www...indness-is-act_b_10886176.html Colorblind Ideology Is a Form of Racism http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/culturally-speaking/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism
Aeros Member	Mon Jan 15 11:40:14 Racism and Identity politics go hand in hand. They are two sides of the same coin. The bigger you make one, the bigger the other gets. The issue here is that most people would agree with the sentiments in Rugian's post. The people who would not agree is a particularly vocal group of far left revolutionaries who have monopolized control of the media and academic megaphones. All those commies from the 1960's and 70's who could not get actual jobs stayed in Academics and turned the concept of class struggle and Bourgeois privilege into race struggle, and white privilege. Its still Marxist nonsense, but now they can wrap it in a different cloth and say its something new. The fact that they are pushing it so hard on the left now means that race and identity is rapidly becoming the determining factor of whether or not you can get a job, do a movie, run for political office, etc in any organization run by these people. Look at Bradley Manning. He's running for Senate and people are giving him a platform. What exactly are his qualifications for Senate? He's chopped his dick off. That therefore makes him eligible apparently.
Aeros Member	Mon Jan 15 11:43:20 This is intensely dangerous from a societal perspective as well. As we are heading for a point where White people will be the "minority" when all other ethnic groups are taken in Aggregate. Rather then being a soft transition that recognizes everyone is different, has different needs and what matters is we are all individually American, there is instead this form of almost revolutionary triumphalism around this coming demographic shift that pits every other racial identity against the whites. Not as fellow citizens, but as successful rebels at last putting another ethnic group in their place. This is not a recipe for social harmony. This is who civil wars get started.
delude Member	Mon Jan 15 12:13:43 "The issue here is that most people would agree with the sentiments in Rugian's post." Sentiment is fine. Hard to take seriously when Rugian plays the same game and perpetuates it.
LazyCommunist Member	Mon Jan 15 12:40:28 "Class is far and away the primary indicator of whether you will succeed in America or not." QFT!
Dukhat Member	Mon Jan 15 12:56:20 It's interesting how Aeros has bought the narrative. The most extreme elements who are SJW really have no power at all. They are found in isolated pockets online and in the real world. What we're going to is an empathy-driven society where everything will now involve sensitivity training. It's irritating but not particularly dangerous or world-breaking if not for the fact that whites who have gotten use to ignoring the feelings of others can no longer fall back on "white privelege." Not a single damn thing posted by the Alt-Right has been a smoking gun about the dominance of their hated SJW's or Antifa or all the other stupid bullshit they exaggerate.
Aeros Member	Mon Jan 15 13:21:30 "It's interesting how Aeros has bought the narrative." Eh, getting dropped in an ethnic civil war kinda put some things in perspective. You don't need a majority of people in favor of shit going down for shit to go down. You need like, 5% of a given ethnic group to decide shit needs to go down and act on it, and you are off to the races. That 5% starts doing shit to other ethnic groups, those groups retaliate and you 5% becomes 10%. Things start to unravel, people start self selecting based on "tribe", and in order to be safe drive out other tribes who are a minority in their particular area. Those people get mad and their tribe retaliates in areas where they are the majority and now your 10% becomes 25%. The Government attempts to restore order, pisses EVERYONE off, and boom. Civil War.
Aeros Member	Mon Jan 15 13:23:02 Reality does not matter. Its how groups of people perceive the social construct. You know, that thing post-modernists claim does not exist.
Seb Member	Mon Jan 15 13:35:59 What utter tosh.
Daemon Member	Mon Jan 15 13:50:53 Rugian, maybe you would be interested in this article: http://www...ction-liberalism-conservatives Richard Rorty’s prescient warnings for the American left This liberal philosopher predicted Trump’s rise in 1998 — and he has another warning for the left. ... The best way to make sense of Rorty’s argument is to follow it chronologically. He sees the American left as split into two camps: the reformist left and the cultural left. The reformist left dominates from 1900 until it is supplanted by the cultural left in the mid-1960s. The division has more to do with tactics than it does principles, but those tactical differences, for Rorty at least, carried enormous consequences. ... There was a shift away from economics towards a “politics of difference” or “identity” or “recognition.” If the intellectual locus of pre-’60s leftism was social science departments, it was now literature and philosophy departments. And the focus was no longer on advancing alternatives to a market economy or on the proper balance between political freedom and economic liberalism. Now the focus was on the cultural status of traditionally marginalized groups. ... Racial animus is baked into the founding of America; it exists regardless of what the left does. But Rorty’s point holds: By divorcing itself from class and labor issues, the left lost sight of its economic agenda and waged a culture war that empowers the right and has done little to improve the lives of the very people it seeks to defend
Forwyn Member	Mon Jan 15 14:09:51 "What utter tosh." He said from the corner, while Jamal and Ahmed rail his wife
Aeros Member	Mon Jan 15 14:12:48 The smug assumption the rapid changes being done in the US and Europe won't lead to violence is just that Seb, Smug assumption. We have built an entire societal order upon a few false assumptions. False assumption 1: Peace can be preserved so long as food is plentiful and wealth is abundant. This ignores historical facts that people are not always rational in how they perceive the "fairness" of the systems they are a part of, and a people too long used to excess forget what its lack even is and so are more quick to take a hammer to the system then they should be. False assumption 2: Culture is relative and malleable, easily changed, and happily so. In point of fact in Evolutionary psychology it is evident Culture is innately programmed into the brain at a very early age and is part of how the human animal knows what the rules are and that it is safe. Which is why everyone feels some level of unease when they step outside their culture into another country, from mild awareness of the difference to outright terror. Changing the entire cultural matrix of a country in the span of a generation, or introducing rapid foreign elements too it can trigger the same reaction in people to varying degrees. Depending on how badly the cultural matrix is damages, these people may even become violent in an effort to restore the rules they understood at an animalistic level were necessary for their safety. False Assumption 3. People can ignore race. This ties back into the cultural framework that the mind develops, but at an even more basic level. Racial identity is tied directly to the parts of the mind that govern survival and perpetuation of the species. The same instincts that make us want to protect family/mates over "other people". Nothing is more "other" and removed from your own desire for genetic preservation then someone from another racial group entirely. There is a reason the most virulently racist people are also easily triggered by pictures of interracial couples as an example, or that miscegenation laws existed for the longest time. People can learn to not let racial differences hinder the functioning of a good society, but you will never be able to make anyone colorblind and race will factor into human interpersonal relations to varying degrees. Without intervention, people will by default tend to favor their own race over others. This can be learned to be avoided, but that requires external factors. It is not something that will develop on its own except in the rarest of circumstances. This leads to False Assumption 4. Historically ethnically homogeneous countries will happily become racially and culturally diverse. The fact that the Austrian Nazi Party is now part of the majority governing coalition in that country should be a huge warning bell to the rest of Europe. False assumptions 2 and 3 dictate pretty strongly that there will be negative blowback as a result of these policies of varying severity. Brexit as an example, would never have happened without the added push of the migrant crisis. For now people still believe in the liberal governing systems of the post World War 2 era, but such belief is predicted solely upon the faith that these systems can preserve the good functioning of the economy and the social order. With the social order manifestly breaking down rapidly all it will take is an economic crisis to create a scenario that could see the dissolution of the entire pan-European experiment. False assumption 5. People in western countries will not revolt against the liberal world order. This should go without saying, but I will say it. Many people value "intangibles" over "tangibles". All the wars fought over deities should be the warning enough on that front. This goes to the heart of why so many people on the Right "vote against their economic self interest". They value cultural and religious things (Clinging to God and Guns) over the economic things. It is a massive mistake for people on the left to disregard this, because lurking behind this disregard is the false assumption that while they may vote for God and Guns, they will never fight and die for God and Guns. And that Seb, is the biggest false assumption of them all.
Dukhat Member	Mon Jan 15 14:55:28 Liberal world order only has one problem: the open borders bullshit. Even so most white people don't even care too much about non-muslim immigration When you have 2nd and 3rd generation muslims still blowing up people, I'll agree with the deadenders; better just to ban all of them. People will obviously try to help themselves first and only help others after they themselves are in a good position. You can't raise living standards when you are taking in too many people from other countries. With the secular trend against unskilled workers, it doesn't make sense to import more much less import ones that are having like 8 kids apiece. ********************************** That being said, that wasn't really the issue Rugian was talking about. It was just a racist rant and he doesn't have credibility when he hasn't done anything in terms of positive habit formation or getting a better education to improve his lot in life. Racists are odious for that reason: they blame all their problems on others; even ones they can easily fix. That's why I'll take Aeros arguments more seriously since he's one of the few people on this board that actually took steps to improve his life and get an education. At any rate, I believe the next Dem with be like Northram and actually tread very carefully on immigration. Immigration is the third rail of American politics now. It has turned the working class against the Dems and elected a total and complete moron to the presidency.
Dukhat Member	Mon Jan 15 14:59:16 Oh I mistook his rant for the South African one. This one wasn't as bad. Should definitely change affirmative action programs to be for class and not race. Still doesn't change the fact that he's burned a lot of bridges by going on a more racist rants in the past.
Dukhat Member	Mon Jan 15 15:05:51 Being a minority is in fact generally a hindrance though despite him pretending it isn't. There are so many advantages to being a part of the major in-group of any social situation that it's not even funny. Just imagine it as a high school cafeteria situation. Who are the cool kids? The rich, white kids. Who get all the best positions and opportunities in the clubs? The rich white kids. It's the most basic tribal instinct of all humans. And let's not ignore the fact that for hundreds of years, blacks were crippled by out society's institutions. I do agree with the alt-tards that it's bullshit to use affirmative action against historically discriminated groups to give benefits to muslims immigrants from a rich upper-middle class family in India who came here to get even richer. Our society and economy functions better if we try to move to more meritocracy. Also some equality of results are needed for social cohesion; not a lot but we should aim to do better than the southern states for example. Simply from the point that every person should feel that they are working in a society that helps everyone. There are elements of race and culture that are still intertwined with the other reasons a person is not successful. It's a constant balancing act unlike what the alt-right would have you believe. And even though Trump is president, his comically incompetent nature is not helping progress your goals at all. Find a better figure that's not a racist retard.
Seb Member	Mon Jan 15 15:39:35 Aeros - so your saying this can only mean war. Fine. If we have to have a civil fucking war because the authoritarians can't handle the concept of equal rights, bring it on. I don't think we should be pandering to repressive dickheads espousing principles our grandfather's fought to defeat, you pathetic Quisling. In any case, it's building. We are talking about a handful of angry, antisocial losers.
Seb Member	Mon Jan 15 16:24:49 " In point of fact in Evolutionary psychology it is evident Culture is innately programmed into the brain at a very early age and is part of how the human animal knows what the rules are and that it is safe" That's an untested and infact untreatable assumption of evolutionary psychology and one that there is reasonable contradictory evidence (human culture varies widely not only by ethnic group but over time within the same ethnic group) and one of the reasons evolutionary psychology is widely dismissed by most of life sciences as unscientific junk.
Seb Member	Mon Jan 15 16:30:31 "Racial identity is tied directly to the parts of the mind that govern survival and perpetuation of the species" [citation needed] Explain then the long periods of extraordinarily successful multiracial societies and how it is that the nation state is, a recent and fairly licasl invention? Previously geopolitical entities tended to be defined not by racial groups but religious and fielty to monarchs. Your false assumption looks to me like unproven shit pulled from your arse. Like much of your posts on everything to be honest. A decade of positing and you've still not learned to stop vomiting up which ever random train of thought crosses your mind in the most ridiculously pompous and self important fashion.
Forwyn Member	Mon Jan 15 16:43:55 "because the authoritarians can't handle the concept of equal rights" LOL
williamthebastard Member	Tue Jan 16 03:21:21 Boring when nativists accuse the left of their own deeds; the Identitarian Movement is a far-right movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identitarian_movement
Forwyn Member	Tue Jan 16 03:31:56 And the black power/nationalism movement is a far-left movement. Your point?
patom Member	Tue Jan 16 04:36:02 Being a fairly simplistic old fart. I see this whole subject as a mere continuation of the thousands of years old concept of keeping the masses at each others throats while you sit back and run their lives. Class warfare, religious warfare, ethnic warfare, racial warfare etc. all have the same roots.
jergul large member	Tue Jan 16 04:52:24 Its all about income inequality, stupid. And it will get worse as we move towards a jobless society and continue to measure worth by employment. At some point, the only way forward will be to fund Artisan anything with income transfers. Or simply cut to the chase and rape billionaires with knives as happily we do retired politicians.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Jan 16 10:02:55 "the Identitarian Movement is a far-right movement" It started that way, but now the left has jumped in bed with it too.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Jan 16 10:09:06 " Previously geopolitical entities tended to be defined not by racial groups but religious and fielty to monarchs." Seb wrong as usual. Political entities have frequently been both racially and non racially bounded. Like a typical leftist, seb is yet again trying to change the facts to fit his theory.
jergul large member	Tue Jan 16 11:16:40 You are confusing race with proto-nationality sammy. Fie fie foe fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman justapoxes Welshman, or Scot. Not Chinaman or hottentott. And that as late as the 1890s.
pillz Member	Tue Jan 16 11:36:09 Yes jergul, race was created by Europeans recently. Never before had it factored into inter cultural interactions.
Paramount Member	Tue Jan 16 12:08:43 ”I'm sick of the left's identity politics” ”but at the same time we can't neglect others stuck in poverty” It sounds like that the core of the problem is with poverty and not someone’s ”identity politics”. America needs someone like Bernie Sanders.
Pillz Member	Tue Jan 16 12:37:01 Poverty is never going away. Not even in Sweden
jergul large member	Tue Jan 16 13:43:16 Pillz Yepp. Human horizons were much closer. Perhaps you might hear something from the pulpit or sheriff to justify hating papists, but it would mostly be the outlandish neighbour, the village across the heath, and the ever popular tax-collector. The goal is to always decrease inequality. I will reconsider going far at GINI 17.5 or thereabout. You know, a point were there is some reasonable relationship between merit and high wages.
Pillz Member	Tue Jan 16 14:14:02 Yep, that's it. No racism before the British.
jergul large member	Wed Jan 17 03:06:47 Pillz More that racism was not relevant to the overwhelming majority of most populations. Bigotry abounded, but had little to do with the tone of skin.
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 20:09:18 In a related note rugian, I dealt with leftist racism today. Was have a conversation via insta with a girl I knew from high school. It's been a while, but social functions and circles. So anyhow, I knew she was a lefty but for the most part I am pretty neutral about politics in real life. She is a history major. I do a eugenics joke. as a joke. and then state that you have to laugh at how absurd race was treated in the past. Her response? Verbatim - "You only feel comfortable saying that because you are a privileged white male." Leftism in a nutshell. If they think you are white your opinion doesn't count. Also, before cuckhat pops in, I ain't white and I've probably dealt with more racist insults from both mexicans and whites than you.
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 20:18:02 Also to note, she did that #pussymarch thing last year. and also has the "fightthepatriarchy tag on a fair amount of her photos. So, we probably won't be making babies.
Dukhat Member	Thu Jan 18 20:54:17 You're such a fucking retard. You provoked her and then have the gall to act like she was to blame. Fucking troglodyte. People like you only get married if they happen to knock someone up early.
Dukhat Member	Thu Jan 18 20:56:32 Durr durr im not white so so I can't be racist durr durr Durr durr that allows me to make bad jokes about eugenics like any hill billy durr durr
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 20:57:30 lol
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 20:58:23 cuckhat, seriously, what happened to your balls ?
hood Member	Thu Jan 18 20:59:12 What was the joke?
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 21:06:40 It wasn't about eugenics. I apologize. I misremembered. So, she stated her wrote her thesis on the "forced sterilization in california". I then stated you have to look at history with a sense of humor otherwise youll be getting pissed at dead people. I then used shock treatment as an example of how people thought they were doing good but were just hurting the people they sought to help. All in all I was pretty conciliatory because I quickly realized I talking to a bra burner. She then stated "you can laugh off racism because you don't live with the repercussions of that history as a white male in this country".
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 21:07:35 And yes, it made no sense. She is an academic who just repeats what she was told by professors, she doesn't have actual thought. I am a male, I am part of the white patriarchy. When confronted with the fact that I ain't white, she just retreated.
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 21:10:31 oh and just to take the piss at the end of the conversation I told her how insulted, hurt and depressed I was that she would dismiss my beliefs based off my race. How I have never encountered someone so bigoted and close minded.
Dukhat Member	Thu Jan 18 21:14:31 The fact that you thought that was racism shows what a fucking retard you are. How is that in anyway equivalent to real racism where people are denied economic opportunity or legal justice? Somehow you made yourself a victim of racism over something annoying a social justice warrior said. Jesus fucking christ what a delicate snowflake you are.
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 21:15:47 You need to read for comprehension, chink.
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 21:22:06 And though i exaggaerated how much this persons opinions bothered me, dismissing someones positions because of race is racism, you stupid pussy.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jan 18 21:59:54 "at the end of the conversation I told her how insulted, hurt and depressed I was that she would dismiss my beliefs based off my race." Ahahahahahahahahaha nice
Forwyn Member	Thu Jan 18 22:40:22 Did that shitlord assume your race? Fucking bigot
Pillz Member	Thu Jan 18 22:49:13 You didn't tell her that you are going to get eaten first because of your race?
hood Member	Thu Jan 18 22:51:41 She got offended at you essentially saying it's dumb to get uppity over history? As a member of the tribe who undoubtedly invokes history the most, it's just fucking tiring to keep going back decades and decades in search of reasons to be angry or offended.
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 22:53:46 She used to be a really cool chick, she has crazy girl eyes and I thought "eh fuck it". But yeah, she got indoctrinated by the liberalism in college and she is basically just an unaware moron. Incapable of even laughing at herself/history because and i quote "while you can laugh at historical racism, I fight for a better future". Yeah, okay christy, let me know when you are ready to stop fighting and become a compliant wife.
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 22:55:06 @pillz, as funny as itd be to bring that up, she has no sense of humor about any of that. i dont think she would get it.
Dukhat Member	Fri Jan 19 02:14:05 How convenient that your story hit all the typical far-right tropes: 1) Women studying useless subject at college 2) "Reverse Racism" hurting you, the alt right guy 3) something something white privelege 4) All your alt-right buddies coming together to pat you on the back for your strength in the face of adversity More likely you stuck your foot in your mouth and she decided to call you out for being an idiot and now you came whining to the board. Why would anyone educated even associate with you? Sad pathetic retard.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Fri Jan 19 02:24:43 "1) Women studying useless subject at college" Back when I was 16 and had my first regular job I had a nice looking boss that had not been out of college too many years. I asked her what her major was. She looked away for a second and said, "Ancient Medieval History." Back then women usually went to college to find a man. :)
Cold Rod Member	Fri Jan 19 05:06:57 And you went back to elementary school to find a victim.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Fri Jan 19 09:40:55 You are one sick little puppy. Are you aware of that?
obaminated Member	Fri Jan 19 10:02:54 Cuckhat, im not the one who consistently posts blatant bullshit about my life, mate.
Dukhat Member	Fri Jan 19 10:12:36 LoL, sucks to be poor and retarded. You're more helpless and worthless than all the people you make fun of you dumb racist. Their lives will change and adapt. You will the same sad little pathetic reactionary for the rest of your life blaming your failures on others.
obaminated Member	Fri Jan 19 10:29:09 I can almost hear cuckhat's screeches from here.
Cold Rod Member	Fri Jan 19 10:31:48 "You are one sick little puppy. " Says the guy who has been labeled a pedophile on the forums.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Fri Jan 19 10:54:44 LOL, you are getting there. Now all you have to do is admit that I was labeled such, all these years, by a bunch of retarded lowbrow neanderthals and then you will have it.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Jan 19 16:41:49 Is there anyone on up more brainlessly one sided than cuckhat?
Cold Rod Member	Fri Jan 19 16:49:18 You've already have admitted. Then you faked your death because you couldn't handle the label.
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