Utopia Talk / Politics / Erdogan will strangle U.S.-backed force

Allahuakbar Member	Mon Jan 15 13:27:21 http://www...-angering-turkey-idUSKBN1F30OA January 15, 2018 / 1:15 PM / Updated 3 hours ago Erdogan: we will 'strangle' U.S.-backed force in Syria "before it's even born" BEIRUT/ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Turkey’s Tayyip Erdogan threatened on Monday to “strangle” a planned 30,000-strong U.S.-backed force in Syria “before it’s even born,” as Washington’s backing for Kurdish fighters drove a wedge into relations with one of its main Middle East allies. The United States announced its support on Sunday for plans for a “border force” to defend territory held by U.S.-backed, Kurdish-led fighters in northern Syria. The Syrian government of President Bashar al-Assad responded on Monday by vowing to crush the new force and drive U.S. troops from the country. Assad’s ally Russia called the plans a plot to dismember Syria and place part of it under U.S. control. But the strongest denunciation came from Erdogan, who has presided as relations between the United States and its biggest Muslim ally within NATO have stretched to the breaking point. “A country we call an ally is insisting on forming a terror army on our borders,” Erdogan said of the United States in a speech in Ankara. “What can that terror army target but Turkey?” “Our mission is to strangle it before it’s even born.” Erdogan said Turkey had completed preparations for an operation in Kurdish-held territory in northern Syria. The Kurdish-led regions in Syria say they need the border force to protect them against threats from Ankara and Damascus. “To prevent any attack... there must be a deterrent force that protects the border between our areas and the others,” Fawza Youssef, a senior Kurdish politician, told Reuters. “Until a political settlement is reached in Syria, these areas need protection. Now, there aren’t any guarantees,” she said. The United States has led an international coalition using air strikes and special forces troops to aid fighters on the ground battling Islamic State militants in Syria since 2014. It has about 2,000 troops on the ground in Syria. The U.S. intervention has taken place on the periphery of a near seven-year civil war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people and driven more than 11 million from their homes. Islamic State was effectively defeated last year, but Washington says its troops are prepared to stay to make sure the Islamist militant group cannot return. For much of the war, the United States and Turkey worked together, jointly supporting forces fighting against Assad’s government. But a U.S. decision to back Kurdish fighters in northern Syria in recent years has enraged Ankara. Meanwhile, the Assad government, backed by Russia and Iran, has made great strides over the past two years in defeating a range of opponents, restoring control over nearly all of Syria’s main cities. It considers the continued U.S. presence a threat to its ambition to restore full control over the entire country. On Sunday, the U.S.-led coalition said it was working with its militia allies, the mainly Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), to set up the new force to patrol the Turkish and Iraqi borders, as well as within Syria along the Euphrates River which separates SDF territory from that held by the government. “DON‘T FORCE US TO BURY” Turkey views the Syrian Kurdish forces supported by the United States as allies of the PKK, a banned Kurdish group waging an insurgency in southern Turkey. “This is what we have to say to all our allies: don’t get in between us and terrorist organizations, or we will not be responsible for the unwanted consequences,” Erdogan said. “Don’t force us to bury in the ground those who are with terrorists,” he said. “Our operations will continue until not a single terrorist remains along our borders, let alone 30,000.” Syria’s main Kurdish groups have emerged so far as one of the few winners in the Syrian war, working to entrench their autonomy over large parts of northern Syria. Washington opposes those autonomy plans even as it has backed the SDF. The Syrian government and the main Kurdish parties have mostly avoided conflict during the civil war, as both sides focused on fighting other groups. But Assad’s rhetoric toward the Kurds has turned increasingly hostile. Damascus denounced the new border force as a “blatant assault” on its sovereignty, Syrian state media said. It said any Syrian who joined the force would be deemed “a traitor”. “What the American administration has done comes in the context of its destructive policy in the region to fragment countries ... and impede any solutions to the crises,” state news agency SANA cited a foreign ministry source as saying. Assad’s allies have also chimed in. In an apparent reference to the force, senior Iranian official Ali Shamkhani said it was “doomed to failure”, Fars news agency reported. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said: “The actions that we see now show that the United States does not want to maintain the territorial integrity of Syria.” “Fundamentally, this means the breakup of a large territory along the border with Turkey and Iraq,” Lavrov said.
Paramount Member	Mon Jan 15 14:23:00 The US has no business in Syria. They are there illegally. Illegal combatants. Geneva conventions does not apply to them. Well, according to the USA itself. Anyhow, can’t Syria go to the UN and seek help from the int’l community to have the illegal US combatants ousted or captured/killed? And maybe even charge the US president of war crimes and hang him in the Hague?
Hrothgar Member	Mon Jan 15 17:46:51 If they don't build the force then what happens? That's the viewpoint you have to take to make sense of it all. There is real concern of future genocide of people living in the region if they can't defend themselves at a very competent level. ISIS just proved that over last couple of years. But yeah, seems like yet more needlessly stiring the pot of contention without a real long term pay off. Kurds aren't a big enough population to hold their own against everyone else in the region in an independent matter. It's silly to try to build them into some kind of potential future nation state of their own. Kurds are to a degree the Turkish/Iraqi version of Palestinians. They want their own little nation, but surrounded by much bigger enemies that won't let them. They would be much better off to just play pall with the larger nations. Find a way to be happy being a part of Iraq. Quit violence in Turkey.
Pillz Member	Mon Jan 15 18:00:43 The sunnis have just been trounced in Iraq and Syria, having done to much damage to both nations before hand that I doubt they ever make a real resurgence as a military force. So who is going to genocide kurds? It's been demonstrated reliably that the other religious factions in both nations are not interested in ethnic cleansing except in retribution against sunnis... Oh wait your kurdshits been deporting yazidis to feed to isis, and Assyrians, and confiscating their homes and businesses and running them out of cities they've been majorities in for a thousand years. Kurds are like any other sunni group, they just don't get along with them. Hopefully Turkey makes sure kurds eat dirt permanently
jergul large member	Tue Jan 16 04:09:48 Hrothgar Without the force buildup, the Kurds will do what they did - Cooperate with the regime for collective security.
Allahuakbar Member	Wed Jan 17 23:15:17 NATO must make a stance! http://abc...tance-us-border-force-52373566 Erdogan: NATO must take stance against US over border force By The Associated Press ANKARA, Turkey — Jan 16, 2018 Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Tuesday called on NATO to take a stance against the United States, a fellow ally, over its plans to form a 30,000-strong Kurdish-led border security force in Syria. Turkey has been threatening to launch a new military offensive in Syria against Syrian Kurdish militias, which Turkey considers to be terrorists because of their affiliation with outlawed Kurdish rebels fighting Turkey. On Monday Erdogan accused the United States of creating an "army of terror" in Syria, along the border with Turkey, and vowed to crush the U.S.-backed border force. Addressing his ruling party's deputies on Tuesday, Erdogan questioned NATO's stance on the issue, saying: "Hey NATO! You are obliged to make a stance against those who harass and violate the borders of your members." NATO's headquarters described Turkey as "a highly valued ally" and said the alliance was committed to Turkey's defense. It said however that the alliance did not have a presence on the ground in Syria and that the matter was an issue for the U.S.-led anti-IS coalition, which includes dozens of countries. Ties between Turkey and the United States have deteriorated over U.S. support of the Kurdish militia, known as the People's Defense Units, or YPG, which Turkey says is a major threat to its security. The United States however has relied on the YPG — the backbone of a Syrian force that drove the Islamic State group from much of northern and eastern Syria with the help of U.S.-led airstrikes. The coalition has said the new force, expected to reach 30,000 in the next several years, is a key element of its strategy in Syria to prevent the resurgence of the IS group in Syria. Erdogan on Tuesday reiterated that Turkey planned an imminent intervention in the Kurdish-controlled enclave of Afrin in northern Syria. Turkey has sent reinforcements to its border in recent weeks and Erdogan said this week that Turkish troops were already firing artillery at Afrin from the border. Speaking to reporters after his speech to party legislators, Erdogan said Turkey would conduct the operation in Afrin with Turkish-backed Syrian opposition forces, the state-run Anadolu Agency reported. Asked whether he planned to discuss the Kurdish-led border force with U.S. President Donald Trump, Erdogan said he had no plans to call the U.S. leader. "We discussed the issue before. He said he would get back to me. I won't call him as long as he does not get back to me," Anadolu quoted Erdogan as saying.
Forwyn Member	Wed Jan 17 23:18:23 Expel Turkey from NATO, flatten the country, and reclaim Constantinople. Deus Vult
Aeros Member	Thu Jan 18 01:28:54 Turkey is a country whose usefulness is rapidly exceeding its obnoxiousness. They have such a high opinion of themselves. Erdogan should take care to not choke on his aspirations. Also Deus Vult.
Aeros Member	Thu Jan 18 01:29:32 *being exceeded by its obnoxiousness. Fucking phone posting man.
jergul large member	Thu Jan 18 01:44:37 Aeros Now substitute USA for Turkey and understand the global community.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 01:51:27 Shortly after our military gets their hands on the money they need those three countries will be hard pressed to whip us. This is the first I heard of it so i'm not sure of our specific intentions.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 01:53:58 I do know that as long as they have an airfied we can supply them.
jergul large member	Thu Jan 18 01:59:04 Dien Pien Put.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 02:02:51 Berlin Airlift.
jergul large member	Thu Jan 18 02:10:46 Oh, so Turkey is going to shut down highways for "repair" and then you will just fly things in since no one is shooting or anything. That is your plan?
jergul large member	Thu Jan 18 02:12:26 Let me state for the record that I believe the US can provide supply to airports no one is shooting at. But then, so can SAS, Widerøe, and Norwegian.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 02:14:16 If they close the highways, no prob. If they start shooting then that is a different story. They should realize though, that we just might shoot back.
jergul large member	Thu Jan 18 02:17:01 It would take some convincing. But Russia demonstrated resolve and Turkey chickened out. So anything is possible.
jergul large member	Thu Jan 18 02:18:05 The USSR was not shooting during the berlin airlift. It simply closed down transport infrastructure for "repairs".
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 02:19:29 it could mean WW III, but I doubt it. I don't that time has come quite yet.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 02:22:18 *-don't think
jergul large member	Thu Jan 18 03:04:46 wwiii between the US and Turkey because arming 30k kurds? Popcorn, anyone?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 05:33:24 Or a single shot from an assassin that wanted to kill a Prince.
jergul large member	Thu Jan 18 05:40:09 That makes no sense at all. Turkey is a US ally. How would it shooting down an Ameican plane lead to the US nuking Russia or China or Israel?
Paramount Member	Thu Jan 18 06:11:38 Aeros, ”Turkey is a country whose usefulness is rapidly exceeding its obnoxiousness.” Why do you think Turkey is in Nato? Turkey is not a member because they need to, like the Baltic states, but because USA begged on its knees to have Turkey in Nato. But now, when the US is setting up an army there that to the Turks is an army of terrorists, then USA/Nato has lost Turkey.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 06:41:34 They should know that group is not terrorists.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 06:42:24 Or scratch what I said.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 06:48:07 Personally, I would love to see Turkey, Syria, and Iran all chip in some land so there would be peace and the Kurds would have their own country.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Jan 18 06:48:33
jergul large member	Thu Jan 18 08:03:34 Maybe the Kurds could have Arizona since you are all hell-bent on breaking up countries to give them a place to be. New Mexico as a Palestinian State too perhaps while we are at it.
Forwyn Member	Thu Jan 18 13:18:34 Turkey is perfectly happy breaking up Syria and Iraq, just not for the Kurds. Fuck 'em both, but fuck Turkey especially.
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 18 20:16:43 Aeros? Does this mean war?
Allahuakbar Member	Fri Jan 19 05:36:36 http://www...ry.html?utm_term=.7c7a66d00395 Turkey says Syria offensive ‘de facto’ underway ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey’s defense minister said Friday there is no turning back from his country’s decision to launch a ground assault on a Syrian Kurdish-controlled enclave in northwest Syria, saying the offensive had “de facto” started with the sporadic Turkish military shelling of the area. Nurettin Canikli told Turkey’s A Haber television in an interview that the Syrian Kurdish fighters in the enclave of Afrin and other Kurdish-controlled territories pose a “real” and ever increasing threat to Turkey. “This operation will take place; the terror organization will be cleansed,” Canikli said in reference to the Syrian Kurdish group, the People’s Protection Units, or YPG, which Turkey says is an extension of an outlawed Kurdish rebel group that is fighting inside Turkey. Turkey wants to remove the threat from YPG group and thwart the establishment of a Kurdish corridor along its border. It has been massive troops and tanks along the border in past weeks. The U.S. however has developed close ties with the YPG over the shared fight against the Islamic State group. Canikli said Turkey was determined to carry out an offensive in Afrin, and would not be turn back from its decision. He said the operation had “de facto” begun, in reference to Turkish artillery attacks that have been taking place against suspected YPG targets. He would not say when the operation would take place saying authorities were working out the best timing for the assault. They were also working to minimize possible losses for Turkish troops, he said, without providing details. Canikli said the operation would be conducted by Turkish-backed Syrian opposition fighters with Turkish troop support. Canikli also said Turkey had detailed information about the YPG’s military capabilities, adding that Turkey had developed sophisticated weapons since its last incursion into Syria in 2016 that were able to counter them. In a stark warning to Turkey, Syria said on Thursday said its air defense would shoot down any Turkish jets that carry out attacks within Syria. Deputy Foreign Minister Faysal Mekdad said a military incursion into Afrin would be “no picnic” for Turkey and would be considered an “aggressive act.”
Hot Rod Revved Up	Fri Jan 19 09:46:05 jergul, didn't the Kurds once have a country of their own in that area or did they just blossom out of the sand after an unusual rain or sand storm?
Forwyn Member	Fri Jan 19 10:12:04 "This operation will take place; the terror organization will be cleansed," i.e. any Kurdish operations in and around Turkey are retaliation, not terrorism
Pillz Member	Fri Jan 19 13:04:04 Hudson have never had their own state. They were nomadic Iranian tribesmen.
Forwyn Member	Fri Jan 19 13:40:35 Not really true. Some were vassal states, some were independent, and most Kurdish attempts at self-governance didn't outlast their neighbors; that happens when you're caught between Ottoman cockroaches and Persian imperialists - but they certainly existed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annazids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahdinan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Bitlis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohtan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasanwayhids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazaraspids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marwanids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaddadids I mean, Saladin himself was Kurdish, and founded a state: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyubid_dynasty
Pillz Member	Fri Jan 19 18:19:10 But never as a single Kurdish state. They lack a pan Kurdish national identity. And the primary reason they exist in Syria and Turkey across such large ranges is because they assisted the ottomans in the Armenian genocide. Now we've seen Iraqi kurds try to wipe out the yazidis with a forced March, force out Christians, and in Syria they've forced out Assyrians from historically Assyrian cities. Kurds are tribal trash, some are communists, and all of them are undeserving of a state. But America will give them one anyways, so they have an excuse to remain in the middle east forever.
Allahuakbar Member	Sat Jan 20 10:29:33 Run Russian Run! http://www...thdrawn-state-run-media-125999 Russian military police stationed in the Afrin region of Syria have begun withdrawing before a potential military operation by the Turkish army, Turkey’s state-run Anadolu Agency has reported, in a development that comes only a day after key military and intelligence talks between the two sides in Moscow. Anadolu Agency reported on Jan. 19 that tens of Russian military police that pulled back from villages near Afrin arrived in Nubul and Zahra districts under the control of the Syrian regime forces. Citing “reliable local sources” in Afrin, the agency did not provide further details on the motive and scope of the withdrawal. There was no immediate reaction from Moscow and Ankara to either confirm or deny the military pullback from this region. It’s believed that Russia has a few hundred military observers in that particular region in northern Syria which is largely under the control of the People’s Protection Units (YPG), a group Turkey considers as the offshoot of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), therefore, a terrorist organization. The development followed Chief of General Staff Gen. Hulusi Akar and National Intelligence Organization (MİT) chief Hakan Fidan held talks with Russian Chief of Staff Valery Gerasimov in Moscow on Jan. 18. In an interview with private broadcaster CNN Türk on Jan. 18, Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu underlined the need to be in coordination with Russia before the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) launches its planned operation. “We have to be in coordination with them so Russian observers are not negatively affected. We have carried out a number of our steps with Russia. We have some disagreements but that hasn’t hindered our cooperation so far,” he added. “We should therefore be very careful in our efforts to avoid accidents,” Çavuşoğlu said, adding that there are “various countries and players in the Syrian theater.” He also said talks are also focused on Turkey’s demand of using Syrian airspace for a more efficient military operation into Afrin.
Aeros Member	Sat Jan 20 11:47:38 It should be noted the only reason the US even backed the Kurds was because Turkey sat on its ass as ISIS advanced on its borders.
pillz Member	Sat Jan 20 12:28:26 Thats pretty uninspired thinking.
Aeros Member	Sat Jan 20 12:38:48 Well, we could think more in depth on it. Turkey has been one of the worst actors in the entire Syrian civil war drama. Erdogan came out early against Assad, and actively funded/armed various insurgent groups in the country. Including ISIS early on. As shit continued to get worse, they did not deviate from this policy, even as the USA began backing off its pressure on the Assad regime due to it becoming increasingly clear the "moderate" opposition was becoming less moderate and no convincing alternative to Assad could be found. The US just stuck to half hearted measures like "non-violent" aid and training. When ISIS launched its major offensive against Iraq and the Kurds and started its campaign of genocide against non-Muslims and Arabs. Turkey continued to sit on its ass, going so far as to station its troops at the border to watch the people getting shot up by ISIS and insure they don't try and get away across the border. At this point the USA started its bombing campaign, and of course the Turks would not let us use Incirlik for free. Negotiations to allow using Turkish airspace were incredibly fraught. Mainly because Turkey did not give a shit about what was happening and was secretly thrilled with the idea of ISIS genociding the Kurds. The USA of course was not thrilled with the situation, particularly since ISIS at this point was on the cusp of taking Baghdad prior to the intervention. We gave Turkey an ultimatum. Either do something constructive or we arm the Kurds. Erdogan continued to wave his dick and do nothing, so we armed the Kurds.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Sat Jan 20 13:50:25 http://twitter.com/agirecudi/status/954663660743471104
Pillz Member	Sat Jan 20 13:59:58 Conveniently missing the parts where US training & aid virtually all went to ISIS or groups that were allied to ISIS. US refused to bomb ISIS oil shipments to Turkey... It's a degeneratie game where you both 'fight' your own proxy and having realized it wouldn't achieve your goal of deposit assad, you used it as a cover to prop up the kurds. Which upset Turkey but you are confident Turkey will remain your bitch. Of course one or two attacks by PKK in Turkey should give Erdogan the support needed to attack Kurds in Syria or Iraq regardless of US troops.
Allahuakbar Member	Sun Jan 21 07:46:53 Now Kurds will pay for their atrocities against the IS! http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42765697 Turkish ground troops have crossed into northern Syria as part of Ankara's campaign to rid the border area of Kurdish fighters, Turkey's PM says. Binali Yildirim said the aim was to establish a 30km (19-mile) "safe zone" deep inside Syria, Turkish reports say.
Aeros Member	Sun Jan 21 13:10:13 This is going to be entertaining.
Aeros Member	Mon Jan 29 16:52:55 US Troops refuse demands from Turkey to withdraw from Manbij. http://www...e-attacked-turkey-syria-794134
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