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Utopia Talk / Politics / Cold rod and arguing the toss
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 31 18:06:21
Hey ho, I am bored.

Asked you for evidence to support your claim of dishonesty.

You cited various things in the last five or six posts of this thread.

http://www...hread=81909&time=1517318080212

The accusation laid against me was:

"Kinda like how you stated that others must be sexual deviants"

Firstly, none of the points you raised support this argument. Actually it was delude who started to suggest that by questioning Ansari's reported conduct, I was being woefully "Vanilla" - which really does suggest that he's down playing the seriousness of the suggestion and normalising what is very dodgy behaviour.


"and enablers and support rapists"

Again, nothing you posted supports the case I have suggested that anyone has enabled and supported rapists in being rapists.

"and the rape culture"
AS you will note, my reply did not specifically exclude this:
-----------------
Sat Jan 27 16:36:29
"Kinda like how you stated that others must be sexual deviants and enablers and support rapists"

Find a quote from me saying that. I think you will find you misread the words or didn't understand their meaning.
----------------------

Rape culture is one where rape is normalised. My point I made, which you quoted:

"You guys are your own worst enemy.

Rape culture is ridiculous concept - but it's perfectly normal to pressure women into sex. You need to start off to get them into it."

This point stands up. You can't go around ridiculing rape culture as a concept, and then when challenged on the issue of someone performing sex without consent say "well, I guess your sexual preferences are very vanilla" - to paraphrase.

"because they didn't agree that Ansari raped or sexually assaulted Grace based upon a poorly written article?"

Again, you are ignoring the point that I have explicitly and repeatedly said from the very begining, we are discussing events as reported. The reality may be different.

I don't think you can say that Ansari raped or assaulted Grace. All you can say is "if this account is accurate, the scenario it is describing a sexual assault, and this behaviour is therefore criminal".

It is a different thing entirely to say "Ansari definitely behaved this way, and is therefore a criminal".

So, I would say once again, there is no dishonest here. Just a fundamental lack of intelligence and reading comprehension on your part.
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 31 18:06:41
Possibly you do not know what dishonesty means.
Cold Rod
Member
Wed Jan 31 18:23:18
Dishonest Seb is mad.
jergul
large member
Thu Feb 01 05:59:13
Dishones obviously means the same thing as fake news.
jergul
large member
Thu Feb 01 05:59:21
t*
Cold Rod
Member
Thu Feb 01 06:04:25
dishonest sebrodjergul believes those objecting the report claims posters are condoning the actions of Ansari's behavior. When shown now they claim they didn't mean it that way.

Dishonest.
Seb
Member
Thu Feb 01 13:02:58
They weren't objecting to the report.

This was in response to Nim explicitly defending the account as it stood.

"is so obvious because most of us I dare say have been in a similair situation, she says lets take it slower and you take it back _one_ "

His and Hoods explicit view being that if you are naked and kissing, and someone suggests getting a condom, and you say "let's slow down", this can only be reasonably taken to be a refusal of penile penetration but can be taken as consent for other forms of sex.

It is totally dishonest to claim at this point Nim and Hood were disputing the factual basis of the account. They were clearly disputing what constitutes reasonable grpunds for consent.

And Nims argument that when told "no" on one sex act, it's reasonable to escalate to a sex act that splits the difference... yeah that's a classic example of what people mean by rape culture. The idea that its just gosh darn impossible to know if a girl wants you to have sex with them and how far they want to go until you are actually performing a sex act on them.

It's bullshit.
Seb
Member
Thu Feb 01 13:03:17
They weren't objecting to the report.

This was in response to Nim explicitly defending the account as it stood.

"is so obvious because most of us I dare say have been in a similair situation, she says lets take it slower and you take it back _one_ "

His and Hoods explicit view being that if you are naked and kissing, and someone suggests getting a condom, and you say "let's slow down", this can only be reasonably taken to be a refusal of penile penetration but can be taken as consent for other forms of sex.

It is totally dishonest to claim at this point Nim and Hood were disputing the factual basis of the account. They were clearly disputing what constitutes reasonable grpunds for consent.

And Nims argument that when told "no" on one sex act, it's reasonable to escalate to a sex act that splits the difference... yeah that's a classic example of what people mean by rape culture. The idea that its just gosh darn impossible to know if a girl wants you to have sex with them and how far they want to go until you are actually performing a sex act on them.

It's bullshit.
Cold Rod
Member
Thu Feb 01 13:04:36
Dishonest seb is so mad.
hood
Member
Thu Feb 01 13:11:26
"this can only be reasonably taken to be a refusal of penile penetration"

Yes.


"but can be taken as consent for other forms of sex."

No.


Please note, I'm only correcting your misconceptions, I'm not actually entering a discussion here. Consider this post like proof reading.
Seb
Member
Thu Feb 01 13:33:29
The distinction is noted but not material to this discussion. The idea that "slow down" should not be taken to cast doubt on consent for any sexual beyond that currently taking place is an example of rape culture.
Seb
Member
Thu Feb 01 13:33:53
Cold rod is so but hurt.
Cold Rod
Member
Thu Feb 01 13:35:16
Yes, I am so... but hurt. Meaning, I am something else other than butt hurt as were inferring.

I know being called out on your dishonesty is bothersome to your ego.
Cold Rod
Member
Thu Feb 01 13:45:39
Dishonest Seb claiming he doesn't/didn't/wouldn't/hadn't inferred that other posters condone Ansari's behavior. But was called out for it in the first thread...

"More like I know arguing is pointless because you DON'T bother listening to what the other person says, so I'm not going to put forth any effort. You'll just call everyone here serial rapists anyway for not immediately siding with the female. If I wanted to be called a rapist, I'd club a bitch in the back of the head and tie her up. (it should be noted that I'm not going to do that and the comment was made in jest. so fuck off, NSA) "

Dishonest Seb is dishonest.
Seb
Member
Thu Feb 01 14:31:48
Cold rod:

I think you'll note my accusation was that they were contributing to rape culture, not condoning Ansari s behaviour.

Hood, Nim and delude have been very clear they don't do that.

But they have been very clear (at various points) that - by the contents of the account itself - "slow down" etc. Should be reasonable grounds for Ansari to believe he had consent to proceed.

If you find contradiction between those positions - isn't that rather my point?

But it's not correct to say I have accused them of condoning or spring rape. I have accused them of inconsistency though.

Seb
Member
Thu Feb 01 14:32:24
Also Sam, did you drop your old handle in abject shame?
Cold Rod
Member
Thu Feb 01 14:36:06
Dishonest seb again moves the goal post. Dishonest.
hood
Member
Thu Feb 01 14:58:25
@seb:

That's fine. Just as long as you aren't actively ascribing arguments to me I didn't make. Carry on.
Seb
Member
Fri Feb 02 06:41:32
No goal posts moved. Kinda hard to claim that when it's in black and white on an old thread.

Hood:

It does leave us back where we started. If you agree that "slow down" means "no I doubt want you to stick your dock in me"; and if you agree it doesn't mean "please stick your tongue in my vagina" - where's can there be grounds for Ansari to reasonably believe he was had consent. Absence of further resistance isn't sufficient for many reasons.
hood
Member
Fri Feb 02 07:24:30
"Please note, I'm only correcting your misconceptions"

As I had said, I was only correcting your misrepresentation. I have no argument to present. You may believe as you wish, I will not be going through the effort of contesting it.
Cold Rod
Member
Fri Feb 02 08:02:02
Dishonest Seb continues his dishonest path.
Seb
Member
Fri Feb 02 10:41:05
Hood:

It simply points out that in the end, the contradiction here is yours.

Given the account as it stands, you cannot simultaneously believe:
1. "Slow down" means as you have described in this thread
2. He didn't -at least so far as the account is concerned - commit sexual assault
3. Consent is needed for sex (as opposed to the lack of refusal)


One of those has to give.

hood
Member
Fri Feb 02 10:54:03
Read my words. Ingest them. The argument is over, I am not contributing. We had 300 posts. Feel free to bicker with cold rod.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Feb 02 10:56:29
Seb is a cuck who discriminates against men.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Feb 02 10:57:07
And who also sucks at gas physics. Rough combo. Cuck and shitty at physics. Lol.
Seb
Member
Fri Feb 02 12:16:44
Sam:

You got arse ripped so badly on gas physics you vanished for a couple of months.

You flipped. You flopped. You couldn't answer basic questions. You made fundamental category errors in physical quantities.

Go back to school.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Feb 02 13:22:30
"I dont see how a warmer gas might expand, or that slow down does not mean stop"

Seb, yet again choosing liberal talking points over facts.
Cold Rod
Member
Fri Feb 02 13:27:23
Dishonest Seb is mad and doing what he can to save face.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Feb 02 13:28:14
Also part of the reason i wast around is because i was busy being flown business class around the world to answer gas physics questions.

Lol. How awesome for me.

But now that project is successfully concluded and i have time to waste teaching you and other plebs.
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