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Utopia Talk / Politics / israeli f-16 shot down
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sat Feb 10 09:26:55
dicuss
Allahuakbar
Member
Sat Feb 10 09:40:10
Isrel must wipe out the Assad clan in retaliation!
Paramount
Member
Sat Feb 10 09:50:34
It was deemed to happen sooner or later. Israel has repeatedly violated Syrian airspace, sovereignty and territorial integrity.

This time, Israel got what they deserved. I hope the pilots are dead now and that their flesh is now beginning to roth, and that Satan has captured their dark souls.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Sat Feb 10 10:19:35

The pilots are just fine.

Aeros
Member
Sat Feb 10 10:29:02
The same cannot be said for Iranian forces in Syria though.

http://www...ry.html?utm_term=.2f1606f2e02c

Israel’s says it launched a “large-scale” aerial attack inside Syria on Saturday after one of its jets was downed under Syrian antiaircraft fire, in a series of cross-border incidents that threatened to destabilize the volatile region between the two countries.

Israel says the situation started with an Iranian drone crossing into its territory from Syria at around 4:30 a.m. It was shot down by an Israeli attack helicopter.

Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Bahran Qasemi, however, described the Israeli claim as “ridiculous.”

Israel later dispatched eight fighter jets to bomb the T4 military base near the Syrian city of Palmyra, from where it says the drone was dispatched and controlled. Syria responded with “substantial Syrian antiaircraft fire” under which two Israeli pilots ejected from their F-16, which crashed inside Israel, according to the Israeli military. One of the pilots was severely injured, it said.

“The Syrians are playing with fire that they are allowing the Iranians to attack Israel from their soil,” said Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces. “The IDF is ready and capable to inflict a heavy price on anyone that attacks us. This is a severe attack and a breach of Israeli sovereignty perpetrated by Iran.”

After its fighter jet crashed, Israel responded by targeting 12 military sites in Syria — eight Syrian and four that it said were Iranian. The stated targets included three air defense batteries and a base belonging to the Syrian army’s 4th Division on the outskirts of the capital, Damascus.

Qasemi said that the Syrian government had the right to defend itself “against any foreign aggression” in reference to the Israeli jet being targeted.

The Israeli military said it was investigating whether its jet was hit directly.

The Syrian state news agency said more than one plane was hit, describing the bombing of the base as a “new Israeli aggression.”

A military alliance backing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad said that any other incursion by Israel would be met with “serious and fierce” retaliation.

Russia, which has troops based at T4 military base, reacted with anger.

“The creation of any threat to the lives and safety of Russian military servicemen currently in Syria on the invitation of its lawful government to help fight terrorists is absolutely unacceptable,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

The attack could complicate Russian-Israeli relations. Just last month, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited Moscow for talks about Syria, specifically the growing influence of Iran.

After meeting with Vladi­mir Putin, Netanyahu in a video statement said he told the Russian president that Israel viewed two developments with severity: “One, the attempts by Iran to base itself militarily in Syria and the second, Iran’s attempt to produce in Lebanon accurate weapons against the state of Israel. I made it clear to him that we will not agree to any of those developments and we will act accordingly.”

Israel has looked on with alarm as its archenemy Iran has extended its reach in the region during conflicts in Iraq and Syria. Along with its Lebanese proxy Hezbollah it has provided military support for Assad during the country’s nearly seven-year-long civil war, while backing Shiite militia forces in Iraq in their fight against the Islamic State.

In an attempt to contain Iran and its proxies, Israel has regularly carried out airstrikes inside Syria, though it has in the past refrained from acknowledging its responsibility for specific bombings. Syria’s response in the past has been limited, but it appeared to be sending a message on Saturday that it would not remain that way.

“Israelis must realize that they no longer have superiority in the skies nor on the ground,” Fares Shehabi, a member of the Syrian parliament for Aleppo tweeted. He said that Syria fired more than 24 surface-to-air missiles at Israeli jets. “Much more will be fired in the future at Israeli airports if Israel continues its aggressions.”

Conricus, the Israel Defense Forces spokesman, confirmed that between 15 and 20 surface-to-air missiles were launched by Syria as Israel launched the second round of attacks. The pro-Syrian military alliance, which includes Hezbollah and Iran, released a statement describing the Israeli claim that an Iranian drone had entered its airspace as a “lie and fabrication.”

But Conricus said that Israel was in possession of the remains of the drone and that Israeli officials were certain was Iranian. It did not cross randomly but was “on a mission” he said, though he declined to give more details or comment on whether the drone was armed.

Civilians on both sides of the border were awaked to the military exchange.

“We can hear the sounds of the explosions,” said one Damascus resident, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. He said the sound of Syrian antiaircraft missiles is louder than usual. Air raid sirens were triggered in residential areas on Israel’s northern border.

Shlomo Mishal, 55, from Beit Shean in northern Israel, said that he was waked by the sirens at around 4:30 a.m.

“We heard a loud bang but we did not know what was going on and ran downstairs to the shelter, a safe room in our home,” he said.

Mishal said that his friends and neighbors in the town started sharing text messages and social media posts, with rumors flying around about what had happened, until 8 a.m. when the news stations gave details of the Iranian drone being shot down.

“The fact that this happened not far from our home, the fact there was an Iranian drone overhead is not nice and makes us uncomfortable,” he said.

Brig. Gen. Hossein Salami, deputy head of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, refused to comment. He was speaking on the sidelines of a conference marking the anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, Iran’s Tasnim news agency reported. Salami added: “We have no military presence in Syria.”

The Israeli military said it was not looking to escalate the situation but was ready for various scenarios. Netanyahu was holding an emergency meeting with his Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman at Israel’s military headquarters in Tel Aviv on Saturday morning.

Members of Israel’s security cabinet, including Netanyahu, toured the Golan Heights on Tuesday and were briefed by the general chief of staff of the army Gadi Eizenkot and other top military commanders.
Paramount
Member
Sat Feb 10 11:05:42
”One of the pilots was severely injured”

lol




”“The creation of any threat to the lives and safety of Russian military servicemen currently in Syria on the invitation of its lawful government to help fight terrorists is absolutely unacceptable,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement.”

The jewish state is still butt hurt that their islamic state allies lost against Iran, Syria and Russia.

I also think, and hope, that Russia will drop some nukes on Israel next time.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sat Feb 10 11:19:01
Israeli humour...

"Israel has mostly stayed out of the prolonged fighting in Syria, wary of being drawn into a war in which nearly all the parties are hostile toward it. It has recently been warning of the increased Iranian presence along its border, but military spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus said Saturday's incident marked the most "blatant and severe violation of Israeli sovereignty" yet."

http://abc...ikes-syria-16-crashes-52978982
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Feb 10 11:24:45
The only way for peace is for Israel to need peace, because she doesn't need it at the moment. And as long as Israel is not even slightly at risk of military defeat or parity, she does not need peace.

Then again, if you were to give the ability to Hezbollah or Palestinians to annihilate Israel, they would do it in a heart beat. Meanwhile Israel has had that capability for some time and they have not used it.

So between total annihilation of Israel and a frozen low intensity conflict, the choice comes down to how much hatred do you harbor for Jews?
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Feb 10 11:44:26
Lol israel is going to fuck up those air defenses now
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Sat Feb 10 11:51:26

Nimatzo, The only road to peace is for Palestine to get rid of the terrorists with in her borders.

Paramount
Member
Sat Feb 10 12:05:30
”One of the pilots was severely injured”

lol
Asgard
Member
Sat Feb 10 13:19:00
Bibi is happy his investigations are off of the front pages now
Asgard
Member
Sat Feb 10 13:20:40
War is what Bibi needs. Not what Israel needs. Why would Israel be happy to fight battle hardened veterans of the Syrian civil war?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Feb 10 15:01:26
Because regardless of how hardened they are the risks for Israel in terms of casualties are very low. This is the first airplane Syria managed to shoot down of how many air raids these past years, 20?
Forwyn
Member
Sat Feb 10 15:11:48
"Iranian drone"

Is that like those "Syrian mortars"?
jergul
large member
Sat Feb 10 15:12:36
Sammy
How? The surveillance radars are Russian.

Nimi
Russia has a rebuild the Syrian military deal. Israel does not have a response that would not be followed by further upgrades to the Syrian air defences.



Remember that it was in complete shambles as late as in 2015. I would not have expected Israel to lose a plane so soon.

You cannot generalize from a single incident. But losses to sorties flown in 2018 are hideously high if extrapolated. Say 200 sorties so far. 1 loss.

That is bad for fixed wing aircraft.
Pillz
Member
Sat Feb 10 15:33:00
Losses for Israel could get pretty high compared to Lebanon 2006 I imagine.

Also believe this is the first time Syria has fired on Israeli jets? Probably a response to the US killing SAA troops
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Feb 10 16:37:56
No they have fired on them before and if it's to be believed shot down missiles these past months as well.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Feb 11 12:07:17
"The surveillance radars are Russian. "

Ahhh that explains the success rate... one plane shot down in the last 35 years. Lol jergul fail.
jergul
large member
Sun Feb 11 13:48:06
Sammy
You should average it out over the last 5000 years. How many Israeli planes has Russian hardware shot down yearly since humanity discovered agriculture?

Not very many. Russia pwnd!

Anyway, point being - the s-400 surveillance radars are off-limits and have backward compatible information sharing capability with all of Syria's active SAM systems.
jergul
large member
Sun Feb 11 13:49:22
10k years*
Cthulhu
Tentacle Rapist
Sun Feb 11 14:50:41
'and that Satan has captured their dark souls.'

I thought you were against Jews, but apparently not.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun Feb 11 15:25:07
satan's a lesbian
Aeros
Member
Mon Feb 12 12:10:11
We are escalating. Hail satan.

http://www...-syrian-clash-crosses-red-line

Israel and Iran consider next move after Syrian clash crosses red line

Arch-enemies Iran and Israel crossed a line this weekend that both have been warning about for years: a direct confrontation between their militaries.

In just a few hours, a potentially devastating precedent was set between two of the region’s most bellicose states when Israel downed a drone in its airspace that it claimed was Iranian. After responding by bombing what Israel said was an Iranian target deep in Syria, one Israeli F-16 fighter jet crashed amid a barrage of Syrian anti-aircraft missiles. Having lost its first jet in decades, Israel again hit what it said were Iranian targets, this time near Damascus.

After decades of fighting through proxy militia, such as the Tehran-backed Hezbollah in Lebanon, the clash on Saturday brought the direct battle into the open. As both sides assess the remains from the brief engagement, each will be deliberating on whether the long-looming spectre of war has finally appeared.

“We need to prepare ourselves operationally and intelligence-wise for the mounting threat,” Brig Gen Amit Fisher, the Israel Defense Forces chief responsible for the Syrian frontier, told troops on Sunday. “The big test will be the test of war.”

The IDF said it had enhanced defences in northern Israel, close to Syria, while the Jerusalem Post newspaper cited witnesses claiming a convoy of missile-defence batteries had moved north.

A former commander of the IDF northern command said Israel was lucky that their pilot and navigator ejected over Israel and survived, but more violence was to come. “That’s the price of war. My assessment is that the incident isn’t over and that we’re now only in a timeout,” Maj Gen Amiram Levin told a local radio station.

Tehran says Iranian personnel are only at Syrian bases to advise the government of Bashar al-Assad and claims Iran has no conventional armed forces in the country. It denied it had sent a drone into Israeli airspace.

Ali Shamkhani, the secretary of Iran’s supreme national security council, remained defiant on Sunday. The “Zionists”, Tehran’s terminology for Israel, had failed to “inflict damage on Iranian-Syrian bases”, the semi-official Tasnim news agency quoted him as saying.

“The Syrian nation proved this time that it will respond to any act of aggression, as the era of hit and run is over,” Shamkhaniadded, in apparent praise of the downing of the Israeli jet. Although this appears to be the first time Israel has hit what it said was an Iranian base in the country, Syrian sites have long been targeted by the IDF.

Reacting to reports of the downing, Hossein Salamai, the deputy head of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards, warned: “Iran can create a hell for the Zionists.”

Ofer Zalzberg, an analyst at International Crisis Group, said: “We are entering a stage in which it is likely we will see more clashes between Israel and Iranian forces.”

While Zalzberg said he did not think either country desired a fully fledged war, the situation in Syria had brought them to blows, and more were to be expected.

Israel has warned that Iran intends to set up permanent bases in Syria and use them to attack the Jewish state. This, Zalzberg said, was why Israel would be trying to prove the drone it said entered Israeli airspace was Iranian.

“That places a question mark on the Iran narrative in which Tehran has only deployed advisers in Syria and exclusively for the purpose of the Syrian war,” he said.

Most concerning for Israel , and where future clashes could erupt, is the frontier it shares with Syria in the occupied Golan Heights. For much of the Syrian war, which began as a popular uprising in 2011 and turned into a conflict after a bloody government response, the Syrian side of the Heights has been controlled by rebels.

But an emboldened Assad may try to retake it. Zalzberg sayid Assad would be unlikely to do this with just the Syrian army and may rely on Hezbollah militants and even Iranian officers.

Having an Iranian military presence right on the border is a red line for the Israelis, Zalzberg said. “Israel will be willing to pay a high cost to prevent such a scenario.”
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon Feb 12 12:24:20
“Iran can create a hell for the Zionists.”

godspeed
Aeros
Member
Mon Feb 12 12:49:40
If I was Putin I would be trying to desperately to reign in my "Allies". The last thing the Assad Government needs right now is for Iran to draw them into a war with Israel. Israel could quite literally rock their world, especially if they are not terribly interested in holding much territory.

If the Israeli Army made a major push, Damascus would fall within a month since the bulk of the SAA (and Hezbollah) are oriented North towards the FSA, ISIS and the Kurds. Any effort to move them from the Northern Front to oppose an Israeli invasion would subject them to blistering air strikes that would require Russian intervention, drawing Russia into war with Israel on the side of Iran. Something that could put us on the escalation chain for the break out of a Great Power war.
Pillz
Member
Mon Feb 12 12:51:56
Fail to see how the onus is on Iran, which clearly has not been striking Israel, while israel has been hitting Syrian targets for years.

But let's hope Russia does get involved.
Pillz
Member
Mon Feb 12 12:52:08
Against Israel, I mean, obviously.
Aeros
Member
Mon Feb 12 12:59:59
Russia does not have the forces in the region necessary to wage a war against Israel, and what forces they do have would be sitting ducks. Israeli submarines would make short work of what limited naval capacity the Russians have in the area, and then take out the radar sites from the Air Defenses around Tartous opening the door for the IAF to wipe out the rest.

Given time and expectation it would be needed, Russia could have in theory been able to put the necessary forces together. But the only thing Russia has really done was put just enough forces in position to insure the US did not get any funky ideas. They are deterrent only. If the deterrent fails they are in deep shit, and unlike the US, Israel's security and geopolitical aims are strictly narrow, which means they are less likely to find Russian forces a deterrent.
Paramount
Member
Mon Feb 12 13:26:27
Israel could not defeat Hezbollah last time. Aeros now expect Israel to defeat Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, and Russia.

And now Israel lost their ”sunni-coalition against Iran” – ISIS and al-Qaida. But maybe the Saudis can send in a new wave of terrorists. I have heard that many jihadists has been resting at luxorous spa hotels in Saudi. So maybe they are fit for fight again?
Paramount
Member
Mon Feb 12 13:29:59
Can Israel handle more than one front?
jergul
large member
Mon Feb 12 13:56:15
Aeros
Putin has told Israel to cool it. Which it will.

There is no upside anywhere. Degrade Syrian AD? Russia will give it an even better one that it otherwise intends. Invade? lol. No.

Russian force security in Syria rests on nuclear weapons. Always has, always will.
Aeros
Member
Mon Feb 12 14:03:40
"Israel could not defeat Hezbollah last time."

Israel had no real stated aims beyond "destroy hezbollah" last time, as if you can just hand wave an insurgent organization away.

"Russian force security in Syria rests on nuclear weapons. Always has, always will."

Russia is not going to nuke Israel. Especially since Israel would nuke it back.

And I am not saying Israel is going to invade. Yet. But Putin would do better to tell Iran and Hezbollah to knock it off then Israel. The Israelis have a very long track record of not giving a shit what anyone thinks or tells them to do when it comes their security and military operations.
Paramount
Member
Mon Feb 12 14:06:12
Israel couldn’t defeat Syria with the help of Saudi/ISIS/al-Qaida. Now Aeros expect Israel, all alone, to defeat Syria, Hezbollah, Iran and Russia. lol

Israel should just admit defeat, stop terrorizing their neighbors, free Palestine, resign and apologize.
jergul
large member
Mon Feb 12 14:46:50
Aeros
Russia is not going to nuke Israel because Israel will not harm its forces in Syria.

Since those forces are untouchable, then Israel main security concern relates to exactly how high resolution air defence data Russia in sharing with Syrian and Iranian systems that are fully integratable with the s-400 surveillance data.

Remembering (or learning) that Air Supremacy is not acheivable if surveillance radar data is not degradable.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Feb 12 15:51:28
Every time a conflict comes up between advanced nations and soviet peasants, jergul thinks the soviet bloc wont be slaughtered. And every time the soviet bloc is slaughtered. Lol.
Pillz
Member
Mon Feb 12 15:56:14
Israel can't even beat Muslim Peasants. How they supposed to beat white people?
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Feb 12 16:08:35
Israel stomps on muslims time and time again. They number 8 million dudes and are surrounded by a billion crazed muslims. If they didnt dominate on the field of battle, israel wouldnt be there.
Pillz
Member
Mon Feb 12 16:34:50
Lots of countries used to win wars, I guess you can relate
Paramount
Member
Mon Feb 12 16:55:39
”Israel stomps on muslims time and time again”

They stomp on civilians time and time again, yes, or on depressed and half-starved Palestinians with a Kalashnikov or a sling-shot.

Israel hasn’t fought a real war in a long time. It didn’t go very well when they tried to fight Hezbollah in Lebanon. Israel must have panicked because they started to bomb civilian blocks of houses and civilian infrastructure instead of Hezbollah’s rocket launchers. Hezbollah fired more and more rockets as the war went on. They were able to do it probably because Israel wasn’t targeting them, but targeted civilians instead. Israel was too afraid to actually go in there and fight an organized and diciplined army (Hezbollah). I think Israel was only in the borderlands of Lebanon and then one of their tanks got destroyed and Israel retreated eventually after bombing a UN position and killing UN personel.

And now, in Syria, Israel won’t have 100% air superiority. Right, Jergul? So anytime Israel is thinking of stomping on the people in Syria they will have to calculate the risk of being blown up in the sky.

Israel should probably stick to shooting missiles at Palestinians kids in Gaza, because that is what they are good at.

”If they didnt dominate on the field of battle, israel wouldnt be there.”

Israel is only there because american tax payers has been/is paying for it.
Paramount
Member
Mon Feb 12 17:07:50
Israel’s initiative, the Saudi-led sunni-coalition ISIS, has failed. It was Israel’s chance, because Israel knew that they couldn’t go into Syria by themselves. But it all failed, thanks to Russia.

And now Israel is also losing air superiority.

Things are not looking very good for Israel now. They will have to get the USA to start a war on Iran. It is the Zionazis only chance now to rule the Middle East.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 20:17:33

Time to consider US bases in Israel.

swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon Feb 12 21:03:12
"Time to consider US bases in Israel."

godspeed
Forwyn
Member
Mon Feb 12 21:59:32
Time to stop arming and defending jihadis just to continue our proxy wars against Russo-Iranian allies.
jergul
large member
Tue Feb 13 02:24:48
Sammy
Of the 8 million Israelis, how many are former communists or direct decendents of former communists?

You are failing to appreciate to what degree Israel is in fact just an extention of Russian demographics.

So Soviet bloc fighting Soviet bloc. To use your terms.

Its not going to get into a direct conflict with Russia. Even if not for Russia pinning its deployment in Syria on nuclear weapons.

Para
Air supremacy is something different than air superiority. Just as access denial is something different again.

But its no joke. Syrian AD can theoretically track Israeli aircraft from the moment they leave concrete emplacements.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Feb 13 03:47:38

Just as Israel can track Syrian hardware when it leaves the ground, right?


Right?

jergul
large member
Tue Feb 13 06:24:56
Yepp. Or at least sort of.

The s-400 surveillance radar has pretty extreme range and Syria is much larger than Israel.

So more specifically:

Radar coverage useful for ground ID covers Northern Israel, and portions of Tartous, Latakia, Daraa, Idlib and Damaskus provices.

(its fucking scary that I know province names in Syria off-hand. I could probably mobilize Israeli districts too if I really tried to think about it:).
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Feb 13 08:09:02

Not necessary buddy. :)

Asgard
Member
Tue Feb 13 12:15:14
Not much districts.
North
Center
South

Golan
Territories
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Wed Feb 14 08:56:07
Syrian Downing of F-16I Begs Question: Why Didn’t Israel Deploy F-35s?

(Source: Defense News; posted Feb 13, 2018)

By Barbara Opall-Rome


TEL AVIV, Israel --- As the Israeli Air Force continues to investigate the Feb. 10 loss of an F-16I to Syrian anti-aircraft fire, experts here are privately questioning why, given the operational circumstances that denied Israel the element of strategic surprise, it did not opt to deploy its newest front-line fighter: the stealthy F-35I.

In early December, the Air Force declared initial operational capability of the nine F-35s now in its possession. And from the aerial activity reported by residents near its home base at Nevatim, southern Israel, the aircraft are accruing significant flight time.

Yet none of the operational F-35s were part of the eight-aircraft force package tasked with destroying an Iranian command center in central Syria. The command center was reportedly operating the unmanned Shahed 171 drone that Israel says penetrated its airspace in the early morning of Feb. 10.

Nor were they tasked to lead the follow-on wave of strikes on 12 separate Syrian and Iranian assets in the punitive operation launched later that day in response to the F-16I downing.

But why not? (end of excerpt)


Click here for the full story, on the Defense News website.

http://www...9t-israel-deploy-f_35s%3F.html
Forwyn
Member
Wed Feb 14 10:53:41
Buy a few F-35s to decrease the outlays for your friends; who said anything about using them?

A useless boondoggle.
Forwyn
Member
Wed Feb 14 10:54:02
Besides, it's not like you're buying them with your money. Corporate welfare.
jergul
large member
Wed Feb 14 11:11:24
They are not fully operational yet and imagine the PR disaster if one of them were shot down.

Stealth is always conditional. F-35 are more vulnerable if surprise is not an element.
jergul
large member
Wed Feb 14 16:17:18
The Syrian military shot down 13 Israeli air-launched cruise missiles additionally to the F-16I multirole fighter, which crashed in Israel, during the February 10 encounter in Syrian airspace, the Russian newspaper Izvestia reported on February 14 citing a source in the Syrian General Staff. MORE ABOUT THE ENCOUNTER

According to the report, the Syrian military used S-200, Buk and Pantsir-S systems against Israeli aircraft and missiles. During the first strike on Syria, Israeli aircraft reportedly launched 11 air-launched cruise missiles. 8 of them were intercepted. During the second strike, Israeli aircraft launched 7 air-launched cruise missiles. Syrian forces intercepted 5 of them.

The report added that the missiles were the key target of Syrian forces. The only aircraft, which violated Syrian airspace, was also shot down. It was the aforementioned F-16I. Russian and Syrian sources reached by Izvestia did not deny or confirm reports that the F-16I was targeted with an old-fashioned S-200 missile.

The article also provided additional details about the February 7 incident when Israeli warplanes struck the Damascus countryside. According to the article, Israeli aircraft launched 8 missiles and Syrian forces intercepted 6 of them.

http://sou...eb-10-encounter-russian-media/

==========

Plausible. You see the problem with rolf@subsonic munitions. Saturation still works, but is not cheap.

But the big problem relates to procurement. Russia will rebuild the Syrian military - and that can only be done under the protection of robust air defences.

Degrading what Syria has now is counter productive. It just will result in the transfer of more and better systems (instead of for example upgrading legacy systems like Russia is encouraging Syria to do).

Sam Adams
Member
Wed Feb 14 16:24:06
"the Russian newspaper Izvestia reported on February 14 citing a source in the Syrian General Staff"


Rofl@jergul
jergul
large member
Wed Feb 14 16:28:21
Hitting a decent % of incoming cruise missiles is far easier than shooting down an F-16 sammy. Given that the Syrian regime has appropriate hardware for the task.

Israel's dilemma relates to how much of an upgrade does it want the Syria regime to have? Russia will provide what Israel demonstrates Syria needs.
Daemon
Member
Thu Feb 15 01:48:29
"Degrading what Syria has now is counter productive. It just will result in the transfer of more and better systems"

Who will pay for it?
jergul
large member
Thu Feb 15 02:22:42
Russia.

Though ultimately it only has a cost if there is a war in Western Europe.

Russia believes that a major conflict in Europe will be fought with the hardware at hand (military production rates everywhere are too low to replace combat losses from a major conflict).

So it stores a lot of 2nd echelon, 3rd echelon, 4th echelon, and 5th echelon stuff (t-34/85s were taken out in the 90s - and chechens with wwii era German hardware was not the result of museum raids - they got into 5th echelon reserves).

Syria will have a robust air defence (if follows from Russian base rights). A mix of new and modernized old.

Israel gets to decide the mix composition.
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