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Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump hates America: Space Edition
hood
Member
Mon Feb 12 08:24:05
http://ars...ne-small-step-toward-the-moon/


The budget to be proposed for NASA later today will offer some preliminary support for a lunar exploration program, but has no specific timelines for when humans might return to the surface of the Moon—nor funding to make such an ambitious undertaking happen.

The White House will release its fiscal year 2019 budget for the space agency at 1pm ET today, and although Congress sets the budget for the United States, this document offers a good overview of the Trump administration's plans for NASA. Ars reviewed a copy of the budget documents to be released today.

The FY 2019 budget provides a top-line number of $19.892 billion for NASA, an increase over the FY 2018 budget of $19.519 billion that is largely attributable to the recent budget agreement passed by Congress, which raises spending levels for defense and discretionary spending.

The budget makes several structural changes to NASA's budget, including ending funding for a separate "Space Technology" directorate created by the Obama administration, and rolling that research into the "Deep Space Exploration Systems" account. It also adds $150 million for a new program to speed up the commercialization of low-Earth orbit, because, as previously reported, the White House would like to see NASA funding for the International Space Station end in 2025.


No giant leaps

Perhaps the most significant thing about this budget proposal is that, although the White House has made a big show about returning humans to the surface of the Moon, there are no giant leaps toward that goal in this plan. Rather there are incremental steps that, if followed over the next decade, may allow astronauts to eventually set foot on the lunar surface again.

For example, under a table titled "Lunar Exploration Campaign," the agency will fund small- to medium-sized landers between now and 2023 (up to 1,000kg to the surface of the Moon), before finally beginning work on a human-rated lander in late 2023 or 2024. There is no projected date for actual human landings, which presumably would come much later in the decade. (Certainly these would not occur before 2024, the last year of a Trump presidency if he were to win a second term).

Moreover, this notional timeline for a lunar program start has little or no actual budget attached to it, and there are no details in this document about whether such a program would include robust international partnerships, or the extent to which private-partnerships would be utilized. In short, not much appears to have changed. NASA will continue to fund a "gateway" concept for a small outpost in orbit near the Moon in the mid-2020s, with landings somewhere, at some point in the distant future.

Under these plans, NASA will continue funding for the Space Launch System rocket and Orion spacecraft, although it does not provide funding for a second mobile launcher. Nor are funds specified in these documents to upgrade the SLS rocket from its initial 70-ton configuration for side boosters and other modifications needed reach its full potential of 130 tons.


Science

Another notable area of the budget is its changes to NASA's science budget. While there were widespread concerns that the Trump administration would kill off much of NASA's funding for Earth science, which includes climate change research, the proposed budget only cuts about 6 percent of funding, down to $1.784 billion for 2019. Astrophysics (a 12 percent cut) is another loser.

The budget for Planetary science is among the winners, seeing an increase to $2.234 billion for the coming fiscal year, with this additional money needed if NASA is to launch an ambitious mission to Jupiter's icy moon of Europa in the early 2020s.
-------------------

As usual, Trump made big promises and delivers little results.

Little Dicktator Trump is the personification of disappointment.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 11:07:43

As much as I admire our space program I realize we cannot afford a space program at this time.

And surely you know who is to blame for that. between Bush and Obama, they went from a national debt of $5 Trillion national debt to $20 Trillion national debt.

That is almost a $1 Trillion deficit a year. About what Trump is asking to repair what they neglected.



Where were you when they were spending like a couple of drunken sailors?

Rugian
Member
Mon Feb 12 11:18:25
I, ah...um...




Wow HR. I think I broke my brain reading that.
hood
Member
Mon Feb 12 11:25:32
Rod, Trump made grandiose promises about the space program. He came back with plebian proposals to funding those promises. Trump clearly hates what made America great.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 11:32:38

Yes, he made promises on what needed to be done.

Then when he got in office and he saw how bad things were he had to change priorities. Especially when the country was hit with such horrendous hurricanes and wildfires.

Quit complaining and start using your head.

For a change.

Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 11:34:11

Come on Rugian. You know I'm right.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 12 11:34:18
if "repair what they neglected" refers to infrastructure...

i believe Trump's $1 Trillion deficit doesn't even include any of his $1 Trillion infrastructure plan that he promised (but sounds like he's slashed that to $200B and expecting states/local to cough up the rest)

(Note: deficit was $587 billion in Obama's last year)

yay for fiscally responsible R's!
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 11:37:09

Please STFU tw, You have not a clue what is going on.

Forwyn
Member
Mon Feb 12 11:42:29
Uhh, bro. $165 billion more over two years. 10% of that would almost double the NASA budget.

--------------

Hot Rod
Revved Up Fri Feb 09 09:50:01

How about those Militarily responsible Republicans!



Three Cheers!!!

Hip, Hip, Hooray!

Hip, Hip, Hooray!

Hip, Hip, Hooray!


They gave Trump more than he asked for.



If we can't protect ourselves and our allies what are we good for?
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 11:46:22

And that could have been the proverbial straw.


Don't forget, we needed Democrats to pass the budget.

Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 11:49:52

Another point, the private money may take over space exploration before too long.

Forwyn
Member
Mon Feb 12 11:50:28
Then hammer them on it. They present themselves as the party of science, stop letting them have a monopoly on it, and call them on it if they reject it.

The NASA budget is a fucking pittance, and as long as it's being used to advance actual science, rather than for Islamic outreach, yes, $10b for NASA will do more for the good of the US and world than $100b for the DoD.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 11:54:09

You may be right for the long run.

But there are a lot of bad actors on stage right now and they need to be addressed now, not the future.

Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 11:57:08

gtg later.

Cold Rod
Member
Mon Feb 12 12:03:51
And according to my chart hot rod supersedes everyone on the grand scale of ultimate stupidity.
hood
Member
Mon Feb 12 12:13:21
"Another point, the private money may take over space exploration before too long."

The majority of this "private money" is 2 billionaires working to earn government contacts. Yes, they forked up some of their own money, but they also are banking (or in the case of spacex, already banked) on various government contacts; military satellites, NASA launches, various classified cargo.
obaminated
Member
Mon Feb 12 12:17:25
Jesus, HR.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 19:57:04

And they are doing it better than NASA.

I expect the next man on the moon will be an individual working for one of those billionaires. They might even be taking some sort of habitat with them.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Wrath of Orion
Member
Mon Feb 12 20:03:38
This thread needs to be archived. It's yet another prime example of Retard Rod's idiocy.
hood
Member
Mon Feb 12 20:22:07
"And they are doing it better than NASA."

NASA doesn't build rockets anymore. They oversee private contractors.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 22:20:26

When was the last time that NASA retrieved their spent rockets for reuse?

Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 22:35:12

"And surely you know who is to blame for that. between Bush and Obama, they went from a national debt of $5 Trillion national debt to $20 Trillion national debt.

That is almost a $1 Trillion deficit a year. About what Trump is asking to repair what they neglected."



Actually, that averages over $1 Trillion a year in deficits. Less than what Congress asked for.

Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 22:39:23

And what if $10 Billion more was added to get a man to the moon or further the research that was cut?

Would you have complained about too much borrowing?



hood
Member
Mon Feb 12 22:39:25
They're about to start doing it quite often.

But seriously, you shouldn't be making retarded comments about a topic you clearly don't understand. Admittedly, that's almost any topic, but you look especially foolish here.

I'll throw you a bone:

Reusable rockets were a fantasy until the past 2ish years. They simply didn't exist and it took one of the most brilliant and richest men in the world, and an inexplicable amount of luck, to make them a reality. NASA itself saved SpaceX on more than one occasion. NASA is directly responsible for the success of SpaceX - they footed very critical bills to keep SpaceX from going under.

The leap forward in rocket tech that SpaceX issued seems remarkably simple to the layman, but it is not. There's a reason the entire rocket industry had been predicting the demise of SpaceX for years. Elon Musk himself gave his Falcon Heavy launch no better than even odds at success. Yes, he bluntly stated that there was a 50% or better chance of failure on his most recent rocket launch.

Beyond SpaceX, NASA is at the will of congress and there are specific people from congress (namely some representatives from Alabama) that do everything in their power to keep the rocket building gravy train going. If you've heard anything about the SLS, that is entirely mandated by Congress. NASA has no choice but to pay for the rocket. NASA has routinely had their hands tied behind their back, subject to the whim of appropriations committees. NASA has done admirably despite their limitations.

But seriously. NASA doesn't build rockets. They design high level specs and pay private companies to build rockets to fulfill those needs. With SpaceX proving the capability of their rockets and working on certifying themselves for top secret launches, they will be providing many rockets to NASA in the future and NASA will be retrieving a lot of spent rockets.

Stop being a douche. Recognize when you're just being retarded.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Mon Feb 12 22:47:33
"Recognize when you're just being retarded."

Well, he's always retarded, so...
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 22:58:35

Perhaps you are right, maybe I don't know that much about NASA.


But let me ask you this if that $10 Billion could further space exploration or prevent North Korea from getting a nuclear weapon that could reach the USA, which would you prefer? Consider the fact that Congress did give Trump more than he asked for for the military.

And then there is the need to satisfy the Democrats left over from when the last administration that shut down further moon trips.


Both are possibilities or at least they may have been considered by the current administration.


Possibly.

Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Feb 12 23:01:00

G'Night Mates.

Wrath of Orion
Member
Mon Feb 12 23:14:07
"But let me ask you this if that $10 Billion could further space exploration or prevent North Korea from getting a nuclear weapon that could reach the USA, which would you prefer?"

What a loaded, fucking retarded question.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 12 23:54:46
Budget deficit (in billions)

Obama
2009 $1,413
2010 $1,294
2011 $1,295
2012 $1,087
2013 $679
2014 $485
2015 $438
2016 $585

Stable Genius
2017 $665
2018 going up up up...
hood
Member
Tue Feb 13 00:00:32
"But let me ask you this if that $10 Billion could further space exploration or prevent North Korea from getting a nuclear weapon that could reach the USA, which would you prefer?"

I would prefer that the excessively bloated military budget be retasked to prevent an NK nuke if that is a legitimate threat. Surely somewhere in the $800 billion dollars spent on defense one could find some spare change to stop NK. Almost like several agencies are already paid to do that.

Meanwhile, you could skim an easy 10% off of said bloated military budget and toss it to NASA. We'd be fully operational on the Moon within 10 years. We'd have multiple probes going out to various points of interest throughout the solar system. Powerful new telescopes and scientific equipment could be put up in space. Then you'd have $50 billion left over.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Feb 13 03:43:01

All I'm saying is,

"Both are possibilities or at least they may have been considered by the current administration."


One more point. President Trump **may have requested** more for NASA, but Congress may have changed the amount. I do not know for certain if they did or not, do you?


Do you?

jergul
large member
Tue Feb 13 03:44:16
"but has no specific timelines for when humans might return to the surface of the Moon"

A bit presumptious. I would bet China is the next one out to put boots on the moon and flags into vacuum.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Feb 13 03:58:41

I think China should show us their passports before they go.

We put our Flag there, the moon belongs us.

John Adams
Member
Tue Feb 13 05:31:12
"Both are possibilities or at least they may have been considered by the current administration."

Each administration has considered this and historically for the last 30 years it has opted to focus more on military defense.

This administration is no different. They have their priorities.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Feb 13 05:48:59

While the administration has its priorities it's Congress that has the final say about the budget.

jergul
large member
Tue Feb 13 06:28:57
HR
International agreements the US has ratified says different. Ratified treaties being the highest law of your land according to your constitution ;)
hood
Member
Tue Feb 13 06:32:22
"One more point. President Trump **may have requested** more for NASA, but Congress may have changed the amount"

So the "dealmaker" couldn't get a compromise for the things he considered important. Still a complete failure.
John Adams
Member
Tue Feb 13 06:36:04
"While the administration has its priorities it's Congress that has the final say about the budget."

And military defense has always been at the top and most prioritized.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Feb 13 08:21:41

jergul, ratified by Congress.


Hood, I'm not sure how those meetings went.


JA, correct.



gtg, off to get my INR.

Cold Rod
Member
Tue Feb 13 09:18:54
Lol so basically hot rod contributes nothing but idiotic points that has no bearing to the discussion and then repeat points that are made by other posters as if it was something of his own.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Feb 13 11:35:32

cr, your last post is like another nail in your coffin when it comes to your basic understanding of what we are talking about.

Cold Rod
Member
Tue Feb 13 12:26:08
Quite clear everyone in this thread called you out on your stupidity and ineptness.

Including your own admittance of how much you lack regarding the topic. Or any topic for that matter.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Feb 13 12:46:20

I have come to the conclusion that you know far less than I do about everything.

Therefore, I see no reason to validate your existence.

Cold Rod
Member
Tue Feb 13 13:39:42
False. Because I can maintain a debate, discussion on varied of topics. Whereas you on a notable scale has been mocked, scrutinized, ridiculed, and castrated on every topic. There is evidence of your many downfalls that have been archived and always creep back up to haunt you to demonstrate how dumb you are. This is a fact that cannot be denied. It is not the fault of any of use that you have that reputation. You have only yourself to blame.

Anytime you post it always reminds me of the scene from Billy Madison.

Perhaps you should kill yourself because that is all you're ever know to be. In fact it will help your cause as you would be actually dead instead of having to fake it to garner sympathy due to your utmost stupidity.
hood
Member
Tue Feb 13 16:31:26
Apparently in Trump's plan there's a provision to decommission an already active satellite all because the satellite measures the carbon cycle.

Note, this satellite is already in orbit and will not require any real maintenance. All that must be done to keep the thing working is to receive data and make the data available for scientists. Monetary peanuts. Beyond the amount of money it doesn't cost to keep running, it would be a complete waste of previous spending that is currently doing good work.

Trump truly hates America.
American Democrat
Member
Tue Feb 13 16:33:27
Trump hates anything that undermines him.
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