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Utopia Talk / Politics / Seb's Hero of the Day
Renzo Marquez
Member
Wed Feb 28 18:39:59
http://www...invited-speak-House-Lords.html
Aeros
Member
Wed Feb 28 18:43:53
anyone claiming to be a transgender activist is lying narcissist.
Rugian
Member
Wed Feb 28 19:40:28
"Ms Jones, who lives in Leeds, West Yorkshire, was invited to a reception at the House of Lords on January 23.

The event was to launch a review called 'Inside Gender Identity: a report on meeting health and social care needs of transgender people in the criminal justice system."

You know your society is in trouble when even a bunch of octogenarian aristocratic elites are all in with transgender rights. Not that this is at all a surprise considering that fag marriage in the UK was legalized by an Etonian pigfucker. Either way, Britain is fucked.
obaminated
Member
Wed Feb 28 20:06:03
In before hood claims trans people arent looney
Jebbebiah Wilkins
Member
Thu Mar 01 01:20:27
Beautiful woman! Stunning!
Nekran
Member
Thu Mar 01 01:23:22
What is you guys' problem with trans people? How does it negatively affect you that these people have rights? Has any of you ever met and talked to a trans person?
Forwyn
Member
Thu Mar 01 01:59:45
Yeah, that's really the issue here
jergul
large member
Thu Mar 01 04:14:37
Its actually a bit more profound than so.

Expect the rights you are willing to afford others.

Showing that Aeros and Ruggy have close to 0 right expectations.
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Mar 01 04:18:59
Its ok to murder and rape if you are an immigrant or tranny.


-cucks

Rofl
Forwyn
Member
Thu Mar 01 04:30:22
"Expect the rights you are willing to afford others."

Sure. I'll strangle my wife, only serve two years in prison, get out and immediately try to rape a woman. Then I'll get the taxpayer to pay to cut my dick off, and be released from my life sentence and be invited to speak in a seat of power.

Because muh rights
Cold Rod
Member
Thu Mar 01 04:38:20
People vote in similar people with a volatile background into Congress. I guess it isn't too bad for the UK to allow a "reformed" (on varied levels apparently) to come speak.
Cold Rod
Member
Thu Mar 01 04:42:08
"What is you guys' problem with trans people? How does it negatively affect you that these people have rights? Has any of you ever met and talked to a trans person? "

I think the question is more about their criminal background and them being convicted of murder and rape and being on the convicted sex registry for life. That to my knowledge based on here in the states does not allow you to be near day cares, schools, churches, etc.

And now they are invited to the House of Lords to speak about rights and other matters. Which I support, except for the fact the person that was invited probably not the best candidate to be the representative.
jergul
large member
Thu Mar 01 10:27:56
Forwyn
Actually, transexual rights are a spin-off of the right to assembly. Just as recognition of such groups are recognition of the right of assembly.

Despise the one, despise the other.

Feel free to insert truly obnoxious groups as counter-points and I will show the obnoxious bits are tied to non-acknowlegement of the rights of others.
Forwyn
Member
Thu Mar 01 12:41:33
Feel free to explain why you think that transsexual rights are the issue here, and not a repeat violent felon being released early and granted a national platform, most likely both on the basis of being transsexual.

Is being granted special legal privileges a facet of transssexual rights, perhaps as a basis for correcting historical injustices?
jergul
large member
Thu Mar 01 14:11:43
Forwyn
Because of the thread's author and various comments make me think we are talking about the right to assembly.

Getting granted special legal privileges is the result of successful petition based on the right of assembly.
Aeros
Member
Thu Mar 01 14:31:54
People are literally inventing made up terms to describe things, claiming they are marginalized because of these made up things, and demanding special privileges and protections for their made up identities.

You are guaranteed to same rights as any citizen. You are not guaranteed to demand people agree with what you think you are. One is passive application of authority. You are given rights by society. The other is tyrannical application of authority. You are demanding rights of others in society be curtailed to further yourself.
jergul
large member
Thu Mar 01 15:16:47
Aeros
Right to Assembly and the right to petition for recognition and privilege.

A veteran under the purview of VA and benefiting from GI legislation should probably not rant too much about privilege not provided others.
jergul
large member
Thu Mar 01 15:18:46
Nor perhaps to rant too much about invented identities, eh "citizen" and "veteran"?
Rugian
Member
Thu Mar 01 16:12:43
Yes, quite right. A legal designation of citizenship is exactly the same as forcing a person to deny basic reality and call a man a woman. Well done.
Rugian
Member
Thu Mar 01 16:14:47
You want to chop your own balls off and wear dresses that show off your bolted-on tits, that's your business and you're free to do it. And I'm free to point out that plastic surgery does not override basic biology.
Aeros
Member
Thu Mar 01 16:34:29
I am a Veteran, but its not an innate identity, nor is it something I really use in my day to day. I also don't expect or demand special privileges, like insisting there be enforced ratios of Veterans to non Veterans in a given company.
hood
Member
Thu Mar 01 16:45:14
"I also don't expect or demand special privileges, like insisting there be enforced ratios of Veterans to non Veterans in a given company."

Thats because there are already laws in place preventing employers from discriminating against you for your veteran status.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Thu Mar 01 17:37:47
jergul
large member Thu Mar 01 14:11:43
Forwyn
"Because of the thread's author and various comments make me think we are talking about the right to assembly."

??? I never denied that Seb has the right to watch from the corner while this deranged tranny plows his wife. Or that politicians can't talk to this deranged tranny. The thread has nothing to do with the right to assembly.
obaminated
Member
Thu Mar 01 23:27:07
Hood.... Are you dating a tranny?
hood
Member
Thu Mar 01 23:31:38
Trannies are off my menu. I am not attracted to men (f to m need not apply), I do want kids (m to f need not apply). Not currently dating anyone.

I just don't immediately accuse a harmless group of people of being mentally unstable without actual evidence.
obaminated
Member
Thu Mar 01 23:39:13
Hot Rod Mode Engaged - I was watching the HBO mini series, John Adams, the other weekend. There was a representative from Pennsylvania, a Quaker who led the resistance against declaring independence because out of principle he refused to acknowledge reality. Hood, you remind me of this Quaker from Penn.

You will never biologically change your gender. TO believe you have because you put plastic in your body and take hormone shots is a mental disorder and for anyone who is rational to play into that disorder is to fail them on a human level. It is like ignoring reality.
hood
Member
Fri Mar 02 00:43:38
I don't think gender means what you think it means. And no, it didn't mean what you think it means in the past, only to be redefined. Gender has never been explicitly replaceable for sex.

Nobody is suggesting that DNA is being changed. All you have to do is accept that someone feels more A than B, despite being born as B. And that someone should just be allowed to go about their business without being harassed, because who the fuck are they harming? It's not difficult. Nobody is suggesting you have to eat the transgenders before the mexicans when the world ends.
Aeros
Member
Fri Mar 02 01:51:32
There are no laws against discriminating against veterans. I think you have confused that with laws that prohibit employers from impeding or punishing reservists and guardsmen when they are activated. Me being a Veteran does not afford me protections under the various civil rights laws.

Now if I were to wear a dress to work and demand people call me Xir, apparently that would require state enforced civil rights protections, if this insanity is to be believed.
Aeros
Member
Fri Mar 02 01:54:05
It should also be noted transexuals have been a thing for decades now and have largely been ignored. One wonders why now this is such an issue.
jergul
large member
Fri Mar 02 04:29:38
Ruggy and Aeros
"Citizen", "Veteran" "Transgender" are all invented identities. For natural identities, see Great Apes.

You are of course free to point out that transgender, or citizen, or veteran do not override basic biology. Most of us would simply assume that to be the case.

Renzo
The right to assembly assumes a purpose. In this case the right to petition government for recognition and status privileges.

Aeros
There are tons of laws that give veterans preferential treatment.

By all means. Provide us with your CT.

I would think that obesity and overweight is generally feminizing the population (for an example - look at yourself sidewise in the mirror after a shower. What do you reckon? A C-cup would fit the ticket?), so its becoming more mainstream.

Hood
Yah, its hard to explain to some that sexual identity is not binary.

Renzo Marquez
Member
Fri Mar 02 04:43:52
hood
Member Thu Mar 01 23:31:38
"Trannies are off my menu. I am not attracted to men (f to m need not apply), I do want kids (m to f need not apply)."

LOL. So you won't date trannies. Not because they aren't "stunning and brave" but because they can't have kids. You implicitly acknowledge you can be attracted to some of the but you are disgusted by a former Miss New York. Yep, confirmed gay.
Senor Marquez
Member
Fri Mar 02 05:00:36
Again, I have to keep up this bravado. If anyone knows about the real me...it's over. But I can say I have a negro wife.
hood
Member
Fri Mar 02 07:33:44
"You implicitly acknowledge you can be attracted to some"

???

You're reading far too much into this, bro.


"you are disgusted by a former Miss New York. Yep, confirmed gay."

Who ever used the word disgusted? Feel free to find the quote where I said she was anything related to disgusting (and no, butter face does apply). Maybe you just need higher standards in which sex object you worship. I am sensing some projection.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Mar 02 08:04:27
"I don't think gender means what you think it means. And no, it didn't mean what you think it means in the past, only to be redefined. Gender "."

There is no well defined definition, the term is sloppily used even in research papers and it seems to vary depending on what field is using it. The distinction between "socially constructed gender" and "biological sex" is very recent, 60 years or so.

What does it mean, according to you? What do you mean when you say "Gender has never been explicitly replaceable for sex."?
hood
Member
Fri Mar 02 08:22:12
I mean exactly what that says.

Xx chromosomes very specifically refers to the female sex.
Xy chromosomes very specifically refers to the male sex.

Gender has never had this explicit referral. It has meant group, in a few instances it has been synonymous with sex, but there has never been a broadly accepted definition for gender that specifically refers to chromosomal biology.


"There is no well defined definition"

Indeed. Part of that problem are the obaminateds that muddle the meaning as is generally (not well defined) accepted these days.
obaminated
Member
Fri Mar 02 09:37:16
Gender being an undefined term is something incredibly recent.

When you apply for work, you have to bubble in your gender. You never thought "well, i am a man but I feel like a woman so ill bubble in woman". You always bubbled in man. Or woman. Based on your fucking gender. It was never a confusing issue until liberals decided tranny's weren't outside their God damn minds and should be embraced instead of helped.

To claim that Gender is a mood, which is basically what Hood is espousing, is absurd. On it's face. Absurd.

Gender is not a mood. Gender is your biological make up. It always has been. You are either a man or you are a woman.

And I am not saying "PAWWWLLLL WE GOTS TO ROUNDS UP THEM TRANS AND LYNCH EM"

That is not what I am saying. If you want to cut your dick off, put plastic in your body and shoot your body up with hormones because you want to pretend to be a woman then fine. I won't stop you. But don't expect me to change my definition of genders for you because you clearly have a mental disorder and need help.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Mar 02 09:42:16
>>Gender has never had this explicit referral.<<

So as an attempt make sense of all of this.

"The word gender has been used since the 14th century as a grammatical term, referring to classes of noun designated as masculine, feminine, or neuter in some languages. The sense denoting biological sex has also been used since the 14th century, but this did not become common until the mid 20th century. Although the words gender and sex are often used interchangeably, they have slightly different connotations; sex tends to refer to biological differences, while gender more often refers to cultural and social differences and sometimes encompasses a broader range of identities than the binary of male and female."

http://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gender

Even the cultural and linguistic words are rooted in sex i.e man and woman or neither, and neither is in relation to the previous two. Large parts of culture regulate/relates and is normative to our biology, long before we would call it biology as a field of study. Virtually universally on this planet, I would add. Everything from coming of age rituals (puberty) for boys and girls to marriage and family, cultures centers around male and female biological functions and reproduction, attempting to describe, regulate and stabilize.

When we are talking about "gender" these days, we are almost always talking about the _identity_ in your head vs the one between your legs, would you agree?

We can differentiate between those two and acknowledge that some people are born with those two things mismatched. However there is a near perfect match between those two. I don't know that thing ever get more "explicit" than that.

Is the distance between "gender" and "sex" for our species very large? I don't think so, they are for most practical and technical purpose synonymous.
hood
Member
Fri Mar 02 10:41:26
@ Nim:

Yes.

@ Mt:

You're really stupid.
obaminated
Member
Fri Mar 02 10:51:26
We said the same thing you fucking weirdo.
mexicantardnado
Member
Fri Mar 02 15:09:32
Duuuuurrr

" Gender is your biological make up. It always has been."

duuuurr

"Although the words gender and sex are often used interchangeably, they have slightly different connotations; sex tends to refer to biological differences, while gender more often refers to cultural and social differences and sometimes encompasses a broader range of identities than the binary of male and female."

duuuur I said the same thing as that duuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrr
obaminated
Member
Fri Mar 02 15:24:26
hahahahahahahhahahahahahah look at my troll trying to justify calling a man a woman and vice versa.
obaminated
Member
Sat Mar 03 12:51:09
Even the next day, when I am sober and drinking coffee, this troll is still stupid as fuck.
Mexicantardnado
Member
Sat Mar 03 13:30:58
Duuur I have to duuiuir espouse that I duurrrr drunk post duuiuir.

I'm so duuuur stupid even duuiuir sober, that duuur I still can't duuiuir see that duuur what I duuiuir said was duuuur fundamentally different duuuur
obaminated
Member
Sat Mar 03 15:20:39
Someone's gotta small dick.
obaminated
Member
Sat Mar 03 15:20:39
Someone's gotta small dick.
Seb
Member
Sat Mar 03 16:04:36
Nim:

"However there is a near perfect match between those two."

In what sense though?

Given that gender roles vary between cultures, unless there are loads of cultures that are biologically wrong, all you are saying is that "many cultures have rules and norms for how people of particular sexes should behave that are strongly adhered to".

But many culture also have rules and norms for how people should behave based on lots of other attributes (e.g. caste systems etc.) - some race based.

Simply noting that cultural norms are particularly entrenched and adhered to when based on biological sex lends the idea that these norms are somehow objective, good things that cannot or should not be challenged - or that challenging these things is a "disorder".

Instead, I'd look at fundamental principles of individual liberty. People can do what the fuck they want, and they can identify how they want, and in a polite society, generally you don't try and impose limits on other people where those behaviours don't constrain other peoples liberties.



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