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Utopia Talk / Politics / It's official: UK did chemical attack
Rugian
Member
Fri Apr 13 15:57:12
Russia says alleged chemical attack in Syria was staged by UK

WORLDEUROPERUSSIA
Russia says alleged chemical attack in Syria was staged by UK
14 April 2018 — 4:08am
Moscow: The Russian Defence Ministry has accused Britain of staging a fake chemical attack in a Syrian town outside Damascus, a bold charge vehemently denied by Britain as a "blatant lie". The exchange follows the poisoning of a former Russian spy Sergei Skripal in Britain, and comes amid Moscow's stern warnings to the West against striking Syria.

A day before a team from the international chemical weapons watchdog was to arrive in Douma, just east of Damascus, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said that images of victims of the purported attack were staged with "Britain's direct involvement," without providing evidence.

Britain's ambassador to the United Nations, Karen Pierce, dismissed Konashenkov's claim as "a blatant lie".

Pierce said she wanted "to state categorically... that Britain has no involvement and would never have any involvement in the use of a chemical weapon".

White Helmets first-responders and Syrian activists have claimed the suspected chemical attack was carried out by the Syrian government on April 7 and killed more than 40 people in Douma, allegations that drew international outrage and prompted Washington and its allies to consider a military response. Moscow warned against any strikes and threatened to retaliate.

Konashenkov released statements he said came from medics at Douma's hospital, saying a group of people toting video cameras entered the hospital, shouting that its patients were struck with chemical weapons, dousing them with water and causing panic. The statement said none of the patients had any symptoms of chemical poisoning.

More of article at link:

http://www...ged-by-uk-20180414-p4z9kb.html
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 13 16:35:39

Psst... Hey...

I Gotta a bridge for sale.

Cheap.

Paramount
Member
Fri Apr 13 16:36:26
”a bold charge vehemently denied by Britain as a "blatant lie".

Well, why don’t they prove it that they didn’t do it? At the least they could should explain themselves. :o)
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 13 16:47:39

They do **NOT** need to disprove it because they along with France and The United States have all reached the same conclusion, independently, that Assad's troops did it.

swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Fri Apr 13 17:01:25
good point hot rod.
it's not like the UK has a history of shady unconscionable behavior.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 13 17:36:44

Not so much since they lost India.

swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Fri Apr 13 17:44:17
i believe you.
you're one of the few good people who would know.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 13 17:46:31

So are you.

jergul
large member
Fri Apr 13 17:47:45
The UK is not actually denying what Russia accused them of doing. At least not so far in the thread.

Russia accuses the UK of being party to a staged fake chemical attack. The UK responds with "Liars. We would never use chemical weapons".
jergul
large member
Fri Apr 13 17:48:59
"Konashenkov released statements he said came from medics at Douma's hospital, saying a group of people toting video cameras entered the hospital, shouting that its patients were struck with chemical weapons, dousing them with water and causing panic. The statement said none of the patients had any symptoms of chemical poisoning."

That sounds very credible.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 13 17:53:02

Psst... Hey...

I Gotta a bridge for sale.

Cheap.

jergul
large member
Fri Apr 13 17:54:21
http://www...going-reinforcement-operation/

I will dump it here. A reminder that this is not actually a joking matter (though admittedly with elements of slap-stick humour).

One question that rather begs asking - If the UK et al. believes that Russia uses weapons of mass destruction almost at a whim, then why are they building up towards a nuclear scenario?
jergul
large member
Fri Apr 13 17:57:51
HR
The medics are on hand and international inspectors are on their way to Douma. So the accounts can be verified.

Think of it this way, IF only US intervention can save your pocket from being conquered by the regime, AND only a chemical attack will provoke a US intervention. IF you were a rebel, would not charging into a hospital ward and doing exactly what the quote said happened be a good way to get some great footage for social media?
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Apr 13 18:05:54
If you were as dishonest as russia, why would you be trusted to say the truth about anything? Thats the problem with lieing as much as russia does. Even if they were correct now, its hard to get people to believe you.
jergul
large member
Fri Apr 13 18:33:06
Sammy
The alternatives are not between taking the word of one bunch of sociopaths (aka politicians) ahead of another.

Why would Syria conveniently do the only thing that could stop it from winning the civil war just hours before a negotiated surrender of the pocket was completed?

It makes no sense. Staging the same event on the other hand makes a lot of sense.

obaminated
Member
Fri Apr 13 18:57:06
Which country has less honor? Russia or North Korea?
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 13 19:59:25

Russia

Sam Adams
Member
Fri Apr 13 20:44:57
"Why would Syria conveniently do the only thing that could stop it from winning the civil war just hours before a negotiated surrender of the pocket was completed? "

Dont know. Why would russia abandon profitable peace and seek unprofitable conflict? You see, your point would be more logical if your side had been behaving logicly all along.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 13 20:48:38

The Damascus Airport may be a shambles.

Paramount
Member
Fri Apr 13 23:49:13
”Which country has less honor? Russia or North Korea?”

Easy. It is the US.


Anyhow, if it is true that the chem attack was staged by the UK it will be a huge blowback on them and they will got some explaining to do.
Seb
Member
Sat Apr 14 01:40:53
Tin foil hats all around.

Paramount:

"If"
jergul
large member
Sat Apr 14 04:34:34
Maybot
Thanks for the offer, but keep them. You need one for every occassion.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Apr 14 05:14:47
Sam adams thinks Islamists losing a war are a trust worthy news source. lol
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Apr 14 08:16:18
False. They are untrustworthy. But russia has no honor either.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sat Apr 14 08:17:36
April 13, 2018

Syria - Manipulated Videos Fail To Launch World War III - Updated

[Update April 14, 5:00 UCT]

Last night the U.S., UK and France launched a symbolic attack on Syria. It was not intended to hurt the Syrian government, its people or its allies. It did not hit any of Syria's allies. So far there is no report of anyone being killed or wounded.

This was a one-off:

Mattis [...] said the assault was a “one-time shot,” so long as Assad does not repeat his use of chemical weapons.

The only purpose of the attack was to do 'something' and to somewhat calm down the warmongers within those three 'western' countries. It was probably insufficient for that.

As we wrote yesterday in the piece below. World War III had been called off.

A report from an observer on the ground in Syria:

Elijah J. Magnier @ejmalrai - 4:22 UTC - 14 Apr 2018
Wow:
#USA #France #UK: 3 countries to bomb 3 #Syria/n objectives in #Homs #Damascus? A centre of research, a Control & command and an ammunition warehouse? And before the OPCW investigation expected today?

A say In ME: Huge mountains moving to give a birth to a small mouse!
-
No "Political hits: (Presidential Palace or gov or security HQ)
No #Iranian objectives hits
No #Hezbollah objectives hit
No Syrian Army key capabilities hit.#
And of course no #Russian deployment w/ #SAA hit
#USA looks weaker than ever with this "strike".
-
The giants trio hit (#USA #UK #France) fired from US base in #Qatar is celebrated in #Damascus government controlled area with #Russian #Iranian #Syrian and #Hezbollah flags, dancing and mocking @realRonaldTrump's strike
-
This is the 1st time in history where a capital, #Damascus, is hit by foreign power and people celebrate it in the street few hours later, challenging the attackers and expressing their solidarity with the government by dancing in the street: #USA #UK #France boosted #Assad today
-
#USA #UK #France targeted empty objectives in #Syria since the entire #SAA was dislocated. @realDonaldTrump wanted to save his image: the Syria people's reaction (1000s in the street expressing solidarity with Assad) to the hit is seriously damaging him.

To limit the attack to the absolute minimum was a wise decision by U.S. President Donald Trump. The people who had faked the 'chemical attack' in Douma on April 7 wanted to pull the U.S. into a wider war with Syria and Russia. They failed. Russia's threat of retaliation for any attack was strong enough to deter the U.S. military. Secretary of Defense Mattis saved the situation when he publicly doubted the evidence and held Trump back from a spontaneous 'revenge' response. Netanyahoo will be furious and the neocons will now try to kick Mattis out.

[End-Update - the original post, written before the attack, follows below]

It seems to me that World War III has been called off - for now. Sanity prevailed over a stampede of warmongering which erupted after dubious but well timed claims of a 'chemical attack' in Syria.

Secretary of Defense Mattis let know of his doubts about the alleged 'chemical attack' in Douma which the 'rebels' attributed to the Syrian government. This changed the tone of Donald Trump's tweets and the international conversations on the issue. Several NATO countries, including Germany and Canada, said they would not take part in any threatened 'revenge' operation.

Today the Russian Defense Ministry accused Britain of having directed the staged attack:

Russian Defense Ministry spokesman, Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, released statements by medics from Douma’s hospital who said a group of people toting video cameras entered the hospital, shouting that its patients were struck with chemical weapons and causing panic. The medics said none of the patients were hurt by chemicals.

Here are videos of that hospital scenes from the 'rebel' propaganda outlets. The 'treatment' by the 'rebels', dousing with water and administering some asthma spray, is unprofessional and many of the 'patients' seem to have no real problem. It is theater. The real medical personal is seen in the background working on a real patient.

The people in the video scenes were "rent-a-mob" actors which the Russians say they have found. They also found the medics and videotaped their statements. They Russian government claims to know the main culprit:

"Today, the Russian defense ministry has other evidence proving the United Kingdom’s direct involvement in the organization of this provocation in Eastern Ghouta," [Igor Konashenkov, the defense ministry’s spokesman] said.

An OPCW technical team has arrived in Damascus. It will investigate the scene and talk to the witnesses.

Cause of the recent panic were a few videos by several propaganda outlets associated with Takfiri 'rebels' in Ghouta. These videos immediately looked staged to me. Yes, they showed dead people - mainly children - in a basement or apartment. But the bodies were not in the place where they had died and were probably not, as was claimed, killed by chemical weapons.

In the videos some 20 dead children and a few women lie on the floor as if they were thrown in there. The scene was obviously manipulated several times. The various videos show the bodies in different positions. They have been moved around for presentation. Later videos show, for example, a baby in diapers on top of two older kids. In an earlier video that baby is not there.

The 'rebel' claim that the people were killed by chlorine and a nerve agent: "Look, the dead have foam at their mouth." (Foam at the mouth is wrongly assumed to be a sure symptom of exposure to a nerve agent.)

Yes, they have foam at their mouth. But it seems to be shaving foam and/or some white gel, not a human secretion. We have seen this trick before.

Compare for example this video from the scene uploaded by فادي عبد الله on Apr 7, 2018 at 20:49:26 UTC with this video from the same scene by Yaser AlDoumani2 uploaded on Apr 7, 2018 at 22:43:16 UTC.

A screenshot from the first video (graphic):

The corridor where the cameraman stands at that moment is filled with dead bodies. The body with the white bonnet on its head lies in a backroom. The detail picture below is turned 180 degree:

A screenshot from the second video. The body with the white bonnet has been moved from the backroom to the corridor and added to a pile of other bodies.

Detail of the body with the white bonnet turned 180 degree:

It is the same body with the same cloth in a different position. It seems obvious that shaving cream or something similar has been added to the body after it was moved. The shaving cream simulates "foaming at the mouth".

Stephen McIntyre found and collected several other discrepancies between the various videos from the scene.

The people shown have died. They probably suffocated after a shelter collapsed as the Syrian Observatory reported on that day. But the videos were likely not made at the scene of that incident. The bodies had been moved and manipulated. There were likely no chemical weapons involved in their death.

It would have made no sense at all for the Syrian government to launch a 'chemical attack' on a nonmilitary target in the Douma situation. Its imminent victory was already guaranteed. The 'rebels' and their supporters had their reasons to fake such an 'attack'. It was an attempt to drag the U.S. into destroying the Syrian government and its army. It nearly succeeded.

The various 'leaks' and media claims around the staged 'attack' have reached comical grounds.

CNN headlined today: Biological samples from Syria attack site test positive for chlorine and nerve agent, official says:

Biological samples from the area of the alleged chemical attack in Syria have tested positive for chlorine and a sarin-like nerve agent, according to a US official familiar with the US analysis of the test results.
...
Medical sources and activists in Syria said blood, urine and hair follicle samples were smuggled in batches to Turkey after rebel groups and their families were pushed out of the area by the Assad regime, CNN reported earlier on Friday.
The sources did not know what happened to the samples after they reached Turkey.

That chain of evidence is joke and the claim is nonsense. There is simply no way to diagnose chlorine exposure in blood, urine or hair samples.

The Center of Disease Control notes of Chlorine exposure:

Laboratory criteria for diagnosis:
Biologic: No biologic marker for chlorine exposure is readily available.
...

Chlorine is highly reactive. When it enters the bloodstream it turns into chloride and associates with sodium and potassium and other basic elements. The natural chloride level in a body is already quite high and changes often. We all eat and naturally dispose of table salt, aka sodium chloride, each and every day. The chloride level in a body can be measured but it is not a criterion for chlorine exposure. The 'official' who made those claims to CNN is lying.

The evidence for a 'chemical attack' in Douma is simply not there. The videos provided by the 'rebel' propaganda outlets are manipulated. Medical personal in Douma dispute their propaganda claims.

Secretary of Defense Mattis spoke out and U.S. allies refused to swallow the faked evidence. Donald Trump pulled back from his earlier aggressive threats. There will likely be no bombing of Syria and in consequence no violent conflict with Russia.

Trump already began to change the headlines. He just pardoned Dick Cheney's former errant boy Scooter Libby. He is preparing the grounds for pardoning his own staff should they be caught up in the Mueller investigation.

This will give the media enough material to cover throughout the weekend and to forget about attacking Syria.

The staged 'chemical attack' was designed to draw Trump back into the conflict over Syria after he announced that he wants the U.S. military to pull out. Has it changed his mind? Will those who initiated this stunt, probably the Brits, try again?

Will Russia be able to prove its claim of British involvement? If so could it free Yulia Scripal?

Posted by b on April 13, 2018 at 04:12 PM


http://www...launch-world-war-iii.html#more
Paramount
Member
Sat Apr 14 09:40:46
”Netanyahoo will be furious”

^ This
Paramount
Member
Sat Apr 14 09:44:16
So let’s see if Trump will be made to fire Mattis soon.
Paramount
Member
Sat Apr 14 09:48:06
From the comments section:
”When the proof is presented by Russia will Western media be allowed to show it?”

I doubt it. There has been a really aggressive anti-Russian narrative/propaganda in media for well over a year or more.
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