Utopia Talk / Politics / What Will You Liberals Do

Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Apr 21 07:36:16 When President Trump wins The Nobel Peace Prize? NK has stopped testing. Has agreed to The USA keeping our 28,000 troops in the South. Closed one of their Nuke sites. Has agreed to denuclearization. In a joint statement, North and South Korea have agreed to hold military talks. CNN's Will Ripley reports. I know that Kim is slightly nuts and anything can go wrong but if it doesn't and we sign a treaty of peace with the North and they give up their nuclear program and downsize their military and so on? Is there a snowflakes chance in hell that President Trump won't win the Peace Prize? Is there a chance that any of you will change your opinion of President Trump? Be honest.
Paramount Member	Sat Apr 21 07:45:18 The one who should receive the Nobel Peace Prize is Kim Jong-Un for his incredible concessions and efforts to achieve peace with South Korea. Let's be honest for once, Hot Rod, Trump is just a side figure in this context. If you want to give the prize to Trump you might as well give the prize to Margot Wallström as well.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Apr 21 07:57:32 Paramounted, you never cease to surprise me. If anyone could put the spin on these negotiations I certainly never thought it would be you. You sure reached into the cold dark depths of the barrel for that one. How you can write off the exact positive moves that President Trump has taken to box Kim into a corner is beyond me. It has been over 60 years since the armistice with NK and not a single US President has come this close to solving the problem with North Korea. This is the closest anyone has come and it certainly appears that we can sign a lasting peace with North Korea.
Paramount Member	Sat Apr 21 08:06:43 It is Kim Jong-Un and North Korea who after 60 years has successfully dragged the US and Donald Trump to the negotiating table. They built nuclear weapons, and now South Korea and USA are ready to negotiate. But okay, if Trump tells Israel to end the illegal military occupation and butt out from Palestine and leave them in peace, and if Israel do, then Trump can have the Nobel Peace Prize.
Paramount Member	Sat Apr 21 08:10:31 -30-
Paramount Member	Sat Apr 21 08:21:59 NK built nukes to make USA and South Korea come to the negotiating table, and now Kim is ready to give them up for peace. It has been a long term strategy of NK. They knew this was the only way to make peace. They deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for their incredible work for peace.
jergul large member	Sat Apr 21 08:33:25 HR I will lol.
LazyCommunist Member	Sat Apr 21 08:44:15 Testing is no longer needed, we are now ready to totally destroy all capitalist nations if necessary. http://www...-of-giving-up-nuclear-arsenal/ Kim justified the suspension to his party by saying the situation around North Korea has been rapidly changing "in favor of the Korean revolution" since he announced last year that his country had completed its nuclear forces. He said North Korea has reached the level where it no longer needs underground testing or test-launching of ICBMs, and added that it would close its nuclear testing facility at Punggye-ri, which was already believed to have been rendered unusable due to tunnel collapses after the North's test of its most powerful bomb to date last year.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 21 12:25:46 "The one who should receive the Nobel Peace Prize is Kim Jong-Un" agreed... Kim's doing all the leg work... meeting w/ SK & Chinese leaders & US representatives Trump has only sat on his ass making childish tweets
Paramount Member	Sat Apr 21 12:33:04 Yeah. Obama also recently won the prize, so the chances are small that another US president will win it again so soon. Maybe on his fourth year Trump may have a bigger chance of winning, if he by then succeeds to make Israel comply with int’l law and end Israel’s illegal military occupation of Palestine.
obaminated Member	Sat Apr 21 12:39:37 Itll be pretty fucking hilarious if trump resolves the nk crisis peacefully.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 21 14:18:46 imagine the ceremony... "Donald Trump calling Kim Jong-Un short, fat, little rocket man, insulting the size of his nuclear button, and decrying diplomacy has brought peace to the Korean peninsula..." i don't think it'll happen
Seb Member	Sat Apr 21 14:21:35 Kim shouldn't get a peace prize. But his strategy is spot on. Develop nukes, secure regime, trade for denuclearization (which does not mean what US media and pols think it means).
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 21 14:27:01 yeah, he has -not- "agreed to denuclearization"
KreeL Special Member	Sat Apr 21 17:31:20 If peace happens in the Koreas I'll bet anyone here that Trump does NOT get the Nobel Peace Prize. This being he has absolutely nothing to do with it. Oh but you numnutzes know that his 5 star wedgie is eating his shorts over being odd dummy out in the peace talks.
KreeL Special Member	Sat Apr 21 17:33:35 BTW Trump will never win the prize with Bolton's nose up his ass.
Seb Member	Sat Apr 21 17:49:20 tumbleweed: "Denuclearisation" in North Korean terms means the whole peninsular, and they consider US conventional forces a nuclear threat in their own right as the US would likely use nuclear weapons in any conflict. So I think anyone hoping for meaningful progress here is going to be disappointed.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 21 17:58:13 they should lock Trump & Kim in a room together... then leave & never go back
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Apr 21 18:40:33 tw - agreed... Kim's doing all the leg work... meeting w/ SK & Chinese leaders & US representatives Just what do you think is causing him to do that legwork?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Apr 21 18:44:52 Kim has already given in on US troops in the South.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 21 19:04:32 i'm going to guess the diplomatic talks & sanctions (which weren't Trump's ideas, in fact Trump actively against the talks) have more to do with it than Trump calling him short & fat Trump is more responsible for ratcheting up tensions than diffusing them
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Apr 21 19:21:16 Ratcheting up tensions is what caused Kim to cave in. If he doesn't cave into a permanent solution he knows dame well Trump will blow his balls off.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 21 20:36:00 doubtful... more likely his populace may be reaching their capacity limits on internal parasites also success hasn't happened yet
obaminated Member	Sat Apr 21 21:26:48 haha, tw thinks Kim is making decisions based on the mood of his subjects. Kim realizes Trump isn't fucking around. This is why he says US troops in SK are fine, why he says he is open to talks directly with trump and is okay with potentially ending the war. All things he has never even entertained agreeing to when it was Obama calling the shots.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Apr 21 21:43:08 Trump has so many sanctions on Kim he can hardly turn around in the shower. Plus his bombing Syria twice makes him think it could happen to him and there goes his little playground.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 21 21:52:40 "why he says he is open to talks directly with trump" Kim would've taken a meeting w/ any US president, it's our side that hasn't wanted meetings without conditions (Trump immediately accepted w/o any conditions, but adults intervened and want some conditions) and the Syria bombings were crap... we've invaded plenty of countries in the past blowing up lots more
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Apr 21 22:21:50 Trump made his conditions quite clear months ago. Denuclearization. And Kim said he's willing. Wait and see.
Seb Member	Sun Apr 22 03:21:54 HotRod: He said he's willing to discuss, but as noted what they call denuclearisation is a set of criteria the US won't ever accept. Meanwhile, it's going to be harder for the US to unilaterally remain at war if South Korea agrees to peace with the North.
obaminated Member	Sun Apr 22 03:26:46 "our side didn't want conditions" Kim has conceded a shit load, wtf you fucking moron. seriously. you are dumb as fuck if you think trump isn't a major factor in the turnabout with kim.
Seb Member	Sun Apr 22 04:45:21 obaminated: What has kim conceded exactly? It looks to me very much like he's done exactly what his father had been doing. Achieve nuclear weapons status and then bring the US into f-2-f bilateral negotiations. What do you want to bet me that his opening line on negotiations will be "total US withdrawal from South Korea and cast iron security guarantees backed by China, with chinese trip wire troops in exchange for mothballing his nukes and ceasing further fissile material production". China will support sticking some troops on the border if it means US forces completely out of the peninsula. No more pesky missile defense radars covering China. South Korea will likely support it too - they increasingly fear being dragged into a war by the US where they are expendable; and I think they trust China not to want disruption a korean war would mean to its supply chains and international trade. Plus South Korea could beat the North conventionally. It looks to me like North Korea and China are about to out-manoeuvre Trump. If Trump had continued the Obama era policy (which was pretty poor) it would probably work out better for the US; as would more measured containment rather than deneuclearisation. I really don't see how the US is going to be able to sustain a policy of refusing to withdraw from the Korean peninsula in exchange for putting nuclear weapons beyond operational use (with China as a guarantor) if China, South Korea and North Korea agree peace terms.
Seb Member	Sun Apr 22 04:49:42 BTW, remember who we have to blame for this. David Frum looking for a cheap "trick of three" to stick into a state of the union speech, and John Bolton who decided to dismantle the agreed framework rather than extending it.
Seb Member	Sun Apr 22 04:52:12 Seriously, it looks like North Korea is on the verge of getting everything it has ever wanted: US withdrawal from the peninsula and cast iron security agreements, face to face meeting with the US president demonstrating at best they are being treated as equals, and integration back into the global economy. And the US footprint in the pacific/asia region will shrink.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Apr 22 07:27:59 We shall see.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 22 11:56:03 "Kim has conceded a shit load" SK came with the offer by Kim to meet Trump Trump said 'ok, let's do it by May' & had them announce it in the parking lot same day no pre-conditions then Sarah Sanders came out ignoring the May thing & saying they'd need to set pre-conditions for it to even happen, etc. ie. adults intervened... again... as usual...
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