Utopia Talk / Politics / UK priorities

Sam Adams Member	Tue Apr 24 09:24:36 Its ok to import a bunch of violent criminals from the third world, but this sends you to jail... http://www...le-finger-to-speed-camera.html A court in England has sentenced Timothy Hill, 67, to eight months in prison after he was caught using an illegal laser jammer to avoid speeding tickets.
Seb Member	Tue Apr 24 17:47:28 Walk. Or chew gum. For Sam, an existential choice as either precludes breathing. Through his mouth.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Apr 24 17:54:54 You should whine about police brutality in the us more when your country does shit like this. That wont make you a hyopcrit at all.
Seb Member	Tue Apr 24 18:27:23 Sam: The guy was a criminal. You advocate shooting criminals.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Apr 24 18:38:37 I advocate shooting real criminals. Learn. Scum who hurt other people. All those vice crimes are bullshit and you know it. Weasling out of a speeding ticket is worth a slightly bigger ticket.
Seb Member	Wed Apr 25 02:08:08 You supported the policeman who shot the guy stopped for speeding!
Seb Member	Wed Apr 25 02:09:08 And the guy who got crushed and suffocated by police for selling bootleg cigarettes.
Seb Member	Wed Apr 25 02:09:43 8 months is a totally reasonable sentence for someone actively trying to evade the law.
jergul large member	Wed Apr 25 02:40:34 Suspended sentence? Though he lost the right to drive for 16 months, so will no doubt turn the suspended sentence to an active one by driving anyway.
Seb Member	Wed Apr 25 02:44:21 For perverting the course of justice I think they tend to give custodial sentences. Judges are big on preserve g the integrity of the system and see that as a serious offence even if non violent.
jergul large member	Wed Apr 25 03:13:02 I also like defining non-verbal obscenities as "swearing@" It makes perfect sense. Particularly because non verbal communication systems are recognized as languages (various national sign languages).
Seb Member	Wed Apr 25 03:19:30 Jergul: For the record that didn't play any role in his charges though. But it did attract attention that might otherwise have led to his1 use of a dazzler to go unnoticed.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Apr 25 14:44:45 "And the guy who got crushed and suffocated by police for selling bootleg cigarettes." Fat guy resisted arrest and suffered health complications. Meh. Also you are defending sending a guy to jail for 8 months for using a speed gun jammer. You are retarded.
Paramount Member	Wed Apr 25 15:16:37 Speeding could kill people. And if he is ready to break the law and speed, who knows what more laws he has broken. He needs to be punished and learn to follow the law.
John Adams Member	Wed Apr 25 15:23:32 "Fat guy resisted arrest and suffered health complications. Meh. " No, fat guy died due to positional asphyxiation and a choke hold that violates the NYPD use of force policies.
John Adams Member	Wed Apr 25 15:24:38 This was a case study used by my department back in the day. And still a case study used by many other agencies.
Seb Member	Wed Apr 25 15:49:56 Sam: Destroying evidence of a crime is a serious offence.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 26 09:12:40 "Speed gun jammers are a serious offense" Seb, displaying his retardation.
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 09:58:38 Sam: They are. Someone who is using them is deliberately setting out to frustrate law enforcement agents from investigating and prosecuting crime. It's like fabricating or destroying evidence. The fact that speeding itself is less serious is irrelevant. If you are willing to tolerate perverting the course of justice for a small offence, then you are undermining it for more serious offences.
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 09:59:16 Or we could just call it "resisting arrest" (which is why he's jamming speed cameras, to resist being arrested for speeding) and shoot him maybe?
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 26 10:37:28 You are a complete retard. Nuff said.
Forwyn Member	Thu Apr 26 10:43:56 "If you are willing to tolerate perverting the course of justice for a small offence, then you are undermining it for more serious offences." No. Just no. There is zero indication that individuals who balk at regulations against low-level offenses - especially victimless offenses enforced via cameras, to generate revenue - undermine investigations into assault, rape, and murder. Don't be a fucking idiot.
Paramount Member	Thu Apr 26 11:19:20 What if a colored person is using a speed gun jammer to avoid being caught by the police?
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 26 11:23:46 Well then it would be the fault of a white guy or jew, duh.
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 11:25:00 Forwyn: Hey, I don't write sentencing guidelines. Secondly you once again failed to understand a perfectly clearly written post. "If you are willing to tolerate perverting..." Tolerate, not perpetrate. Think about it numnutz. Who is the subject of this sentence: is it the judge/criminal justice system or the perpetrators. Perverting the course of justice is a separate offence to the offence being committed, not an aggravating factor to another crime. Think about it. It has to be. Otherwise Bob can destroy evidence of Alice's crime. Destroying evidence has to be a crime in itself. And if it is, then it will need to vary a harsh sentence (more than the crime being committed) otherwise it is rational to destroy evidence. So of course setting a low bar on destroying evidence of minor crimes will undermine the CJS in prosecuting serious offences. Particularly if - as is the case here - the criminal csn be proven to have destroyed evidence successfully and cannot then be prosecuted for the crime he did commit. Perverting the course of justice carries a maximum of a life sentence.
Forwyn Member	Thu Apr 26 11:38:30 There is no misunderstanding here. You are arguing that "perversion" is morally equivalent regardless of the nature of the related crime. As a consequence, you're comparing the use of a dazzler on an automatic revenue generator to to concealment of more serious crimes. Likewise, an eight-year old who steals a pack of gum and then tosses the packaging must expect to face a harsh punishment. You can't avoid these comparisons, because you explicitly state that the related crime is irrelevant. Burying a stolen toy is now equivalent to giving a rape victim a bleach bath. Imbecile.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 26 12:20:42 Seb thinks its ok to jail someone for using a speed gun jammer. Retardation status=permanent
Delude Member	Thu Apr 26 12:49:53 Lol seb
Paramount Member	Thu Apr 26 12:56:47 I’m just posting this here: For instance, oral sex is illegal in 18 states. Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Georgia, North and South Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Virginia and Washington D.C. consider people who give or receive oral sex to be criminals. In Georgia, those convicted of oral sex can be charged with no less than one year and no more than 20 years imprisonment. Yikes. Oral stimulation is not the only form of sex that is highly regulated, however. The State of Virginia dictates that it is illegal to have sex with the lights on. In Florida, Massachussetts, Montana and Virginia, it is illegal to have sex in any position other than missionary. In Oklahoma, pre-marital sex is against the law. Nevada considers sex without the use of a condom to be illegal. In Texas, the use or ownership of more than six dildos may qualify you for a felony. In Georgia, sex toys are banned altogether. http://www...s-illegal-in-18-states.133001/
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 26 12:59:29 Seb probably supports jail time for those laws.
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 13:20:34 Forwyn: I think you need to learn to read and admit when you have made a mistake. BTW, same crime exists in the US.
Forwyn Member	Thu Apr 26 13:41:45 "Perverting the course of justice is a separate offence to the offence being committed, not an aggravating factor to another crime." Hurrr durrr you just misunderstood me rofl
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 13:47:24 Forwyn: Giving a rape victim a bleach bath clearly is worse because it would be a separate offence of assault (unless you mean the victim is a corpse). Could you show me where, though, that I've argued all perverting the course of justices are equal? Speeding is an offence. If youare arguing it shouldn't be, fine, but arguing that people should be able to break the law and frustrate enforcement is arguing against the rule of law itself.
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 13:49:27 Forwyn: So if you accept it's a separate offence, why do you think it must be morally equivalent to the crime being concealed? And if not, then is it safe to say that saying "but speeding trivial" is ... how might you say... irrelevant to whether pcj carries a custodial sentence?
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 13:51:13 Forwyn: It's pretty clear not all pcj charges are equal. The max sentence is life. But that would be for serious offences. Jury tampering in a murder trial say.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 26 13:55:13 Seb cant seem to understand that different offences have different punishments because they have different levels of seriousness. Retardation status confirmed.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 26 13:57:19 If a black immigrant puts on a mask to jaywalk, would seb also jail him for 8 months? Why do i suspect not?
Forwyn Member	Thu Apr 26 14:02:13 "So if you accept it's a separate offence" I don't. I argue that the core offense is inextricably linked to the concealment of it. You then claim that I just misunderstood your point. hurrrrrrr
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 26 14:09:33 "I argue that the core offense is inextricably linked to the concealment of it." Forwyn is correct, and seb is a retard.
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 15:25:53 Sam: Er, that different offences carry different tariffs is explicitly my argument. You are the one that can't comprehend perverting the course of justice is worse than speeding. Forwyn: "Hurrr durrr you just misunderstood me" So I didn't actually misunderstand you at all. You were in fact arguing they are inextricably linked. Remind me again, what brought Nixon down.
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 15:25:53 Sam: Er, that different offences carry different tariffs is explicitly my argument. You are the one that can't comprehend perverting the course of justice is worse than speeding. Forwyn: "Hurrr durrr you just misunderstood me" So I didn't actually misunderstand you at all. You were in fact arguing they are inextricably linked. Remind me again, what brought Nixon down.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 26 15:56:43 Yes seb, using a speed gun jammer and speeding is indeed worse than speeding. No, it is not worth 8 months in jail. The fact that you defend this sentence is proof of your inability to think, and your desperate need for harsh government to do your thinking for you. No wonder you are such a staunch supporter of every leftist cause no matter how retarded. You cannot convince yourself to abandon peer pressure, even sacrificing your mind to the cause of fitting in. Sad.
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 16:55:39 Sam: Well, you can think what you like. Ducking with the justice system rightly - in my view - carries a custodial sentence because it undermines the effectiveness of justice itself. The rule of law is a critical bedrock of society and people who not only set put to commit a crime but also disrupt the application of justice are setting themselves above and outside the rule of law and need to get a custodial sentence. The fact you - for example - think it's not that serious is exactly why an exemplary sentence is needed. Note, pcj is a common law, not statutory, offence and sentencing decided by a judge. I.e. has nothing to do with the government, it's purely the judiciary. Also, since when is being tough on law and order a left wing cause?
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 16:58:07 "Yeah, I broke the law, but I don't think this is a crime so I'll try and block the process because I know better than the judiciary and legislature" And you wonder why judges treat it seriously. Suresh. Nobody is above the law.
Seb Member	Thu Apr 26 17:03:03 Anyway, it's simple logic that thectarrif for this crime has to exceed the maximum possible tariff for the worst crime he cpuld have been convicted for on the camera evidence alone, otherwise pcj is a logical choice and nog deterred. That would be dangerous driving, 6 months maximum in a magistrates court (I.e. no damage or injury caused).
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 26 17:24:21 Can you believe you actually just thought through and typed out all that bullshit in support of an 8 month sentence for a speed gun jammer? While at the same time going out of your way to import rapists? Man i am so glad my ancestors shot your ancestors with muskets to get away from such retardation. Thanks guys!
Seb Member	Fri Apr 27 03:25:18 Sam thanks people should only need to obey laws they like.
jergul large member	Fri Apr 27 03:51:31 Sammy He was convicted for tampering with evidence. What sentence do you think is appropriate for that?
patom Member	Fri Apr 27 06:35:53 One thing the article lacked was any information on his priors. Does he have a history of speeding or other driving offenses? Here in the states and Canada if you are caught with a radar detector you will lose it. In Virginia, years ago when I drove over the road, the State Police used to cruise the truck stops with their radar on to see if any red glow showed inside the cabs of parked trucks. We soon learned to unplug the devices and hide them when we pulled off the road.
Seb Member	Fri Apr 27 06:41:02 Patom: Not sure that's really relevant from a legal perspective. His intent in having the jammer is clear (particularly as he makes offensive gestures passing the detector vans) and his attempt to dispose of it and lie about his location at the time of the offence is further evidence he knew what he was doing and that it was illegal.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Apr 27 09:48:18 Seb is a bootlicking big government retard. An especially hypocritical one at that. You know if the driver was not a white man, seb would be squawking very loudly of injustice instead of trying to think up bullshit to defend it.
Seb Member	Fri Apr 27 10:20:49 Er, no Sam. No I would not. There is a difference between being choked to death when being arrested in suspicion of a minor, non violent crime that poses no immediate risk (the crime or at arrest) by a police officer; and being given a short custodial sentence for deliberately perverting the course of justice - something he pleaded guilty to.
Paramount Member	Fri Apr 27 10:27:04 Sam supports death squads who attacks and murders innocent civilians on the streets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner
Sam Adams Member	Fri Apr 27 10:38:29 Comparing the split second decision making of a cop to a criminal resisting arrest to the planned and thought through retardation of seb and the other retarded redcoats... yup that is dumb.
TJ Member	Fri Apr 27 10:44:31 The thought police failed. They should have known that huge dude was really a teddy bear and only wanted to hug them.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Apr 27 11:13:41 Thought police? Dont give the retarded redcoats any ideas!
Seb Member	Fri Apr 27 11:14:23 People dont die of asphyxiation in a split second Sam.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Apr 27 11:30:12 Waaaa 60 seconds then. Stupid thought seb. Dumb. Still 4 to 5 orders of magnitude less thinking time than you and the other retarded redcoats had. You keep trying to weasle out of your retardation, but it just makes you look desperate and dumb.
Seb Member	Fri Apr 27 13:58:19 Over three minutes Sam.
Seb Member	Fri Apr 27 13:59:36 Sam: By the way, are you saying if the cop had longer, he would have come to the conclusion that what he was doing was wrong? I thought you said it was right?
Sam Adams Member	Fri Apr 27 14:14:55 You are slow. Your decision is abhorent because it is wrong AND you had time to make it right and still failed. The cop did neither, but even if he was wrong, brief wrong is much much better than prolonged wrong.
Seb Member	Sat Apr 28 08:49:58 What a funny argument.
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