Utopia Talk / Politics / Student loan debt - A NEW RECORD!

kilo Member	Tue May 22 15:35:27 http://hep...n-debt-tops-1-5-trillion-mark/ Student Loan Debt Tops $1.5 Trillion Mark May 10, 2018/ According to the United States Federal Reserve, outstanding student loan debt has reached an all-time high of $1.52 trillion—up in the last ten years from $619 billion—an increase of over 145%. The new number surpasses all auto and credit card debts held by Americans and sees no signs of slowing. A few reasons for increased student debt rates: •Slower repayment when compared to credit card and car loans •Constant cycle of new borrowers •Stagnant wages •Federal and State funding decreases causing higher tuition rates/fees Currently, over half of student loan borrowers leaving school owe at least $20,000. That’s double, up from 25 percent in the last decade. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau released a study that analyzed borrowers who began repaying loans from 2002 to 2014 and looked at their repayment status through 2016. The data suggests that: •At least 40 percent of borrowers owe over $30,000. •Thirty percent of student loan borrowers are behind their loan balances after five years in repayment. •50 percent of student loan borrowers are over 34 when they start repaying their loans. •60 percent of those who cannot reduce their balances are delinquent. The CFPB’s report also indicated growth in awareness among private companies who offer incentives to employees with student debt. Employers are increasingly helping their employees who borrowed by offering repayment assistance and other programs designed to help those in debt. Additionally, programs like the Public Service Loan Forgiveness plan allow borrowers employed in government and non-profit sectors to cancel debts after 10 years of non-delinquent payments. However, with student debts increasingly exceeding incomes, it’s a wonder if many repayments are even feasible.
hood Member	Tue May 22 15:46:47 My outstanding tab: $0.00 Feels good.
obaminated Member	Tue May 22 15:49:50 Im banking on some apocalyptic event occuring before i pay my terrifying debt.
yankeessuck123 Member	Tue May 22 15:50:42 This is so spectacularly bad for the economy over the long term.
jergul large member	Tue May 22 15:55:10 YS Not really. Or at least not in Norway. Repayment goes to funding new student loans.
kilo Member	Tue May 22 16:07:31 This is one of the last few bubbles just waiting to pop.
murder Member	Tue May 22 17:03:06 One of the last few? They will never end. There will always be more bubbles.
murder Member	Tue May 22 17:05:33 "This is so spectacularly bad for the economy over the long term." When their wages get garnished, and they can't buy a house, or get a small business loan, or pretty much anything? Yeah.
kilo Member	Tue May 22 17:12:33 I think it's funny that people spend 100k on a degree that pays 40-50k yearly.
McKobb Member	Tue May 22 17:27:53 I like bubbles!
patom Member	Tue May 22 17:29:49 I'm still paying for peoples elementary and HS through my property taxes. All my grandchildren in the US are out of school.
Rugian Member	Tue May 22 17:44:22 I'm going to do something different here right now. Normally whenever I see a jergul post that leaves me thinking "where the actual fuck did that come from," I just ignore it and move on. But today, I'm going to try and make an honest effort to actually understand what point he was attempting to make. Here goes nothing. Okay, so ys123 made a point about high levels of student debt being bad for the economy, which 99% of people would have understood to be a reference to the depressing effect such debt has on graduates' consumption and investment levels. But then jergul makes some non-sequitur about student loan repayments getting reinvested into new debt. Hmm. ...maybe he was trying to say that student loan levels aren't worrisome because said loans help enable more students to attend college, which in turn increases the number of people benefiting from the increase in lifetime earnings potential that a university diploma grants? Maybe that's a possibility, but it doesn't make sense in a thread about how debt growth rates are clearly outpacing wage growth right now. Or maybe he was citing the relatively low risk that student loan financing represents? Nah, that can't be it. Fuck it. Jergul, please stop assuming that everyone around here shares the same thought process as you and explain your points. kthxbye
Sam Adams Member	Tue May 22 17:45:42 "This is so spectacularly bad for the economy over the long term." Nah, none of those womyns arts studiers were gonna get jobs anyway.
jergul large member	Tue May 22 17:58:00 Assume a student loan system were loans are repaid and in turn give the basis for new loans. The money is not lost to the economy, it goes directly to consumption (as opposed to savings or investment). Its brilliant because of: http://www...loyment-earnings-education.htm
jergul large member	Tue May 22 18:03:42 For the individual with a BA and an average loan and an average job, he/she/it is making 450 bucks a week more than just with a HS diploma. So could theoretically use the earnings to repay the loan in a year and savour the income boost until hell freezes over. This in addition to topless school breaks in warmer states.
Sam Adams Member	Tue May 22 22:02:02 Obviously student loans make sense for some degrees. No one is telling smart kids its a bad idea to get a loan for an EE degree.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Wed May 23 02:40:33 obaminated - Im banking on some apocalyptic event occuring before i pay my terrifying debt. Be careful what you wish for. I am much more concerned with Kilauea than I am the student loan amount.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Wed May 23 03:24:38 They really need to tie "willingness to lend" to "statistically expected income from degree." If I lent out $1m on a rental property that can be reasonably expected to generate $1k/mo gross (in the red on a monthly basis about three point seven shit tons), I'd lose my license for predatory lending. When student loan lenders do it, it's somehow all good in the hood.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Wed May 23 03:36:10 When creditors are no longer able & willing to lend on a thing commonly financed, you'd be shocked at how fast and how much the price of that that thing - in this case a humanities degree - drops.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Wed May 23 03:45:21 My guess is the Student Loan program might implode along with the credit cards. But that is just a guess. It depends on if the student loans are pegged on the Prime Rate.
jergul large member	Wed May 23 05:01:31 EP Beauracracy! Do you have any particular reason to believe that even fine art graduates would not see earnings increase enough to finance student debt? Though the data shows that funding for associate degrees should be removed as those generate little increased earnings if we follow your logic. Also, you just elected Trump. You obviously need a lot more humanities degrees to flesh out your civic society.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Wed May 23 05:58:54 No. What we need are engineers, geologists and others like those plus entrepreneurs and some good teachers. You get the idea.
American Democrat Member	Wed May 23 05:59:54 Things apparently this administration is against.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Wed May 23 06:00:08 Actually, some good plumbers and carpenters, etc.
jergul large member	Wed May 23 06:12:05 HR You do know that your founding fathers had the equivalent of arts degrees at the basis of their educations, right. If you need engineers, then green-card lottery them into the country. If you need civic-minded citizens able to grasp the importance of and able to build on the founding fathers' legacy, then you have to foster that from birth and through a degree in arts. If you indeed believe that government should be in the business of social engineering by controling educational outcomes at all.
jergul large member	Wed May 23 06:31:59 http://www...al-education-founding-fathers/
TJ Member	Wed May 23 08:45:42 Teach stupid, get stupid, and live stupidly. Live stupidly, get stupid, and teach stupid. Repeat... Horrible parental guidance and an inadequate educational system. Disheartening, not funny. Mental pollution.
Sam Adams Member	Wed May 23 09:31:27 "They really need to tie "willingness to lend" to "statistically expected income from degree." " This, of course, is the correct answer.
CrownRoyal Member	Wed May 23 10:22:27 private student loans in US should be dischargable when bancrupcy is declared. As it stands now, this debt follows you for life. Private financial institutions canm charge higher % if they wish, but the risk is theirs, govt should not be protecting them more than credit card lenders, for example.
Sam Adams Member	Wed May 23 11:34:32 That too, since that would lead to statistically correct lending.
Forwyn Member	Wed May 23 11:37:42 The general argument against that is that you can auction off the boat but not the degree. Though I'm sure a little common sense discretion would prevent the 22-year old grad with no assets declaring bankruptcy to discharge $50k in debt and be good to go by 30.
Sam Adams Member	Wed May 23 12:06:06 You can put liens on future wages i think... ep probably knows the proper word. Thats not all that different from auctioning off assets. And it would still lead to more financing for valuable degrees with less for worthless degrees.
jergul large member	Wed May 23 12:43:09 Ruggy Anyway, you get the argument. People with degrees make more money and enough money to pay their debt and thus finance more degrees. Sammy Associate degrees are the closest you get to statistically useless.
TJ Member	Wed May 23 13:15:24 Sam: It takes a court order to garnish wages. Not sure it is legally applicable in recovering student loans though. Edward: Easily understood as a workable process. Unless the butt end is overloaded. :)
murder Member	Wed May 23 15:47:15 "I am much more concerned with Kilauea than I am the student loan amount." Why? You are nowhere near Hawaii.
CrownRoyal Member	Wed May 23 16:37:39 “The general argument against that is that you can auction off the boat but not the degree. “ Private lenders can and should consider that risk, when they choose to make money in the business.
Dukhat Member	Wed May 23 16:42:41 Neurosurgeons get their debts wiped away all the time. One of the longest-ass residencies means they can have the bankruptcy wiped off their record almost as soon as they become a practicing MD.
jergul large member	Wed May 23 17:17:43 Heh, speaking about jobs that robots should replace...
Kilo Member	Sun May 27 09:09:26 Why is it that student loan remains after bankruptcy?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun May 27 09:38:08 Kilo, because the loans are guaranteed by the Federal Government. The government always gets their money back, or almost always. BTW, none of the musings in this thread has answered my question. Are student loans pegged to the Prime Rate?
jergul large member	Sun May 27 09:55:51 HR Why don't you google and find out?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun May 27 10:34:32 I thought someone might know off the top of their head. Are we now no longer allowed to ask questions? If so, why do we have a forum? Why?
jergul large member	Sun May 27 10:57:03 You asked once, no one responded. That would be the cue to google.
Paramount Member	Sun May 27 11:11:48 http://stu...t-loan-interest-rates-decided/
TJ Member	Sun May 27 11:15:11 HR: Federal student loans are a fixed rate for the life of the loan. If a student acquired a loan from a private lender they could have been offered a fixed or variable rate of interest. Variable rate student loans are typically tied to the prime rate. Do you believe me or should you research for yourself?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun May 27 11:42:54 I believe you/ Then depending on the number that chose the variable rate then they will be a part of the next bubble. The next bubble being credit cards.
kargen Member	Sun May 27 13:31:19 Millions in scholarships go unclaimed each year. Tuition costs have increased because the students have been demanding the schools provide them with more services and luxuries. The prestigious schools have fooled many students into thinking only those schools can provide the opportunities they want. Most colleges and universities offer many degrees in a field with little or no real employment opportunities. So you get a lot of students who pay a high price to spend four years in an almost resort like place to get an education that will often be useless. They are then surprised that they are expected to pay that money back and some are shocked to find their degree isn't going to help them do that. And there are options available to help knock those loans down if you find yourself overburdened by them. There is a program available where you can teach for five years and your loans will be paid. Also a few other ways to get those debts reduced in some way. It somehow isn't surprising to find out that the students that put little effort into making sure they wouldn't go into debt are now making little effort to get out of debt. Most the problem is something they created themselves.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Mon May 28 15:18:31 "Associate degrees are the closest you get to statistically useless." Associate degrees from community college are also a fraction of the cost. It would not at all be crazy to tie willingness to lend to income potential here as well, but this is small potatoes and since it's already so cheap I suspect you wouldn't see any drop in tuition costs at the CCs. It's still possible to work 30 hours a week, live with roommates, and have that cover the full tuition of going to community college. The way our parents did with their entire 4 year degree. Often, getting the 2 year degree is purely incidental. By virtue of checking the boxes that UC Berkeley wanted paired with liking history, I ended up "double majoring" & getting a pair of associates degrees from community college. My intent was purely to transfer to Cal or UCLA, I had no intention of getting any CC degree at all. My first and only meeting with an academic counselor was her telling me I was getting not one, but two, 'degrees.'
earthpig GTFO HOer	Mon May 28 15:26:31 In my case, randomly having ended up in sales, I do use fuzzy studies stuff on a pretty routine basis. There's a circle of Singaporeans that all get their mortgages from me because years ago I made a joke in an email and ended it with "lah." I seem to get on well with Koreans, Most of EU, Chinese, and Japanese, but not so much Vietnamese, French, Italians, or Indians.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 07:52:11 "Tuition costs have increased because the students have been demanding the schools provide them with more services and luxuries." While this is a part of rising tuition, it is only a relatively small part of the reason and is so oversimplified that it's one of the most ignorant statements we've seen here in a while. Congrats on that.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue May 29 08:16:20 So what is the major reason stupid?
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 08:23:46 I may give an answer if you ask nicely. Go on.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue May 29 08:45:13 How about as nice as you are to me fart smeller? Everyone knows that all of the money being pumped into the bigger universities is spent on BS, ie: services and luxuries, that has nothing to do with education. We talked about on this forum years ago.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 10:49:19 Again, not asking nicely - and also only recognizing a small part of the actual problem. When you can find a way to actually ask nicely, I'll give you my answer. Go on.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue May 29 11:00:53 Sir Wrath of Orion, if you have some pertinent information that will prove your claim that the larger institutions do not waste their newfound riches on services and luxuries a link or two would be nice. Your knowledge in this matter will be greatly appreciated.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 11:16:42 "that will prove your claim that the larger institutions do not waste their newfound riches on services and luxuries" Is your reading comprehension really that bad? I never made that claim - in fact I said it is part of the problem, although a smaller part than most people think. People who are not associated with academia over long periods actually have no clue about what goes on at most universities.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 11:17:49 So again, once you fully comprehend what I have already stated and then ask nicely, I will answer. But I don't see the point in engaging you in a real discussion if you can't even comprehend one of the simpler points I've already made.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue May 29 11:32:01 woo - although a smaller part... I fully understand what you said. You stated that services and luxuries are just a small part of the problem. So, what is the bigger part? If you can state unequivocally that 'services and luxuries' are a small part of the problem then the larger part of the problem should be a ***glaring*** part of the problem. So what is it? Please.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue May 29 11:41:29 I'm going to take a shower and I will be back in about an hour. I am hoping to see your answer when I get back. Thank you.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 12:07:19 If by glaring you mean obvious to those with long term experience in academia, then yes. However, as I said, it is not obvious at all to those outside of academia or those with just short term or passing experience with universities (especially state-funded universities). One of the main problems is bureaucratic bloat. It's quite common to see administration staff numbers triple, quadruple, or even more over the course of the last few decades. While you can parse out where some of this additional administration is used, for the most part it is just redundancy after redundancy. And this really stems from the typical university way of solving problems. A rational plan would be figuring out what the specific problem is and enacting a plan to streamline things, eliminate redundancies, or fix/remove the current problem. But that is not how it is generally done in the world of academic administration. The usual solution is another layer of bureaucracy, which often over-corrects and requires another layer to fix that, etc. Eventually you wind up with the ridiculously huge administrations that nearly all universities have these days. Part of the underlying problem in all of that is the inability to fire people (especially at state universities). And I'm not talking about tenured faculty - just your average, everyday administrative staffer. It's usually really, really hard to fire them at most universities even if they are incompetent at their jobs (or part of an 8-fold redundancy). Added onto all that are things like how money is proportioned out. Some universities may have a shitload of money for buildings and facilities, but even if they do not need any more of those things, that money absolutely can't be used to hire more faculty. Other universities may have the opposite issue...a need for buildings and facilities, but only money available to hire people. I could go on and on and on, but these are the types of things that are the real problem. Spending money on "BS student services" (some are no doubt legit, but hey, let's call them all BS, why not?) and "luxuries" (which is fucking hilarious, but I won't go into that) is really just a few drops in the bucket.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 12:09:56 Now, I know that you want to be outraged about the "luxuries" and "student services" you hear about in some reports. But that is not typical university life and those people writing those reports have as little fucking clue about what goes in academia as you do. Which is to say no clue at all.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 12:13:21 Oh, and university administrators are typically overpaid by a ridiculous amount. And when you have a shitload of them, well, it only exacerbates the problem.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue May 29 13:09:05 Fair enough. I see nothing wrong with your thinking, but I still believe that the services and luxuries are a tad more than a drop in the bucket.
kargen Member	Tue May 29 13:14:00 Wrath I said it was a part of the reason and it is not such a small part as you seem to think. Part of that cost is born out of technology that is now expected and necessary compared to the past but not all. Some is simply students insisting on a lot of things they really don't need. And I agree bureaucratic bloat is a large problem. A problem the federal government shares. A couple of interesting articles. http://hec...ising-fast-try-room-and-board/ http://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/94021/the-price-of-room-and-board.pdf
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 13:22:10 Room and board is a fucking joke. And yes, it's a small part. Students that live in the dorms for more than the required time (often 1 year, maaaaybe 2 if you're talking more private institutions) are idiots. The universities are trying to make up the shortfalls due to the actual underlying reasons I listed by bumping that shit up. Again, I have listed the underlying problems. What you're talking about is actually a symptom of the underlying problems, not the problem's source.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 13:23:08 And yes, there are some places where students do not have too much of a choice but to live on campus. But that's actually more rare than universities would like you to believe.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue May 29 13:39:08 And to add to that, many universities are making a push to create on-campus housing that encourages students to stay longer than the minimum requirement. Why? So they can gouge them with the pricing without taking as much flak for increased tuition costs. But for most students, falling into that trap is just self-imposed idiocy. That is an individual's problem, and I don't give a shit about problems arising from self-imposed idiocy. Students can absorb one year of required resident living then gtfo without any real issue. But most of that gouging comes from the underlying problems I've already laid out. It is also true that many dorms were built a long time ago and are coming up as needing to be renovated or replaced. That's a legit problem and universities that were not forward thinking have been eating it on that deal in the last decade or so. But many are using it as a way to build living spaces as described above where they encourage students to stay as long as possible on campus so they can price gouge them. But again, self-imposed idiocy is not my concern.
Sam Adams Member	Tue May 29 13:43:32 "But that is not how it is generally done in the world of academic administration. The usual solution is another layer of bureaucracy, which often over-corrects and requires another layer to fix that, etc. " I wish that was only academia... sigh. I think its a common problem with any old administration...
kargen Member	Tue May 29 15:33:05 wrath did you miss the part where I said most the problem is something the students created themselves? It basically took you three posts to say the same thing.
	show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message: