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Utopia Talk / Politics / Did Putin strike again?
Thu Jul 05 04:59:04
Wiltshire novichok poisoning investigated by UK counter-terror police

Nerve agent used on critically ill UK couple same as that used on former Russian spy

An urgent investigation is under way to discover how a British couple have been left critically ill by the nerve agent novichok, the same military grade poison that nearly killed a former Russian spy and his daughter four months ago.

Britain’s top counter-terrorism officer, Neil Basu, announced that expert scientists in chemical warfare at the world famous Porton Down laboratory had established that novichok had caused the collapse in Wiltshire of British nationals Dawn Sturgess, 44, from Salisbury, and Charlie Rowley, 45, of Amesbury.

They were taken ill at their home on Saturday, 8 miles (12km) from the Salisbury home of Sergei Skripal, who sold Russian secrets to Britain, and his daughter Yulia. They were attacked with novichok smeared on to their front door in March.

Britain holds Russia responsible for the attack on the Skripals in an incident that led to widespread criticism of the Kremlin and soured relations with the west.

Read all: http://www...e-dawn-sturgess-charlie-rowley
Thu Jul 05 10:43:23
Sam Hobson, 29, a friend of the couple, described how on Saturday morning Sturgess fell ill and was taken to hospital. Later that morning Rowley also became sick.

He said both were in hospital in isolation and he was receiving regular calls from the authorities to check he was well.

Hobson said he and the couple spent time in Queen Elizabeth Gardens on Friday. “We were having a drink and chilling in the sun,” he said.

They visited a number of shops, including a Boots chemist to buy red, white and blue dye for their hair to show their support for the England football team, a mobile phone shop, and a store to buy alcohol. They bought food and visited a charity shop to buy a blanket to sit on.

Hobson visited Rowley’s home in Muggleston Road on Saturday morning. Sturgess, who lives in Salisbury, had spent the night there. “I saw lots of ambulances there and [Sturgess] got taken out on a stretcher. She needed to be helped with her breathing,” Hobson said. Rowley came out in tears. “They said she needed to have a brain scan.”

After she was taken to hospital Hobson and Rowley went to Boots in Amesbury. Later they went to a hog roast at the local baptist church. Both the chemist and the church have been sealed off. Police have also cordoned off Raleigh Garden Green, where the hog roast took place on Saturday afternoon.

Hobson said: “We went back to his place after the hog roast. We were going up to the hospital. Then he started sweating. His T-shirt was soaking wet. He got up and started rocking against the wall. His eyes were wide open and red, his pupils were like pinpricks. He began garbling incoherently and I could tell he was hallucinating. He was making weird noises and acting like a zombie. I phoned an ambulance.”


Hmm...this Sam guy was the last person they hanged out with. How come he did not get infected? He was with them all da time. Where was Sam when that Russian guy and his daughter got poisoned? Does he have an ablibi?

They also visited a chemist. Clearly the chemist is a suspect also. Did the Russian also visit a chemist before they got poisoned?
Thu Jul 05 11:08:25
The friend said Mr Rowley had likely been caught up in the contamination "by accident."

"I think they found a package that possibly looked like drugs and took them," said the friend, who saw Mr Rowley outside a McDonald's last week.

The friend, disputing others who have said Ms Sturgess did not use drugs, alleged that "we’re all pretty serious drug addicts and if they were withdrawing and it looked like heroin, they would have injected it straight away without a second thought."

Mr Rowley is "trapped in the game", a reference to drug taking, the friend said.

The friend told Sky News that Mr Rowley was part of a group that would "look in bins for things to sell".

Mr Rowley has not held a job during the time the friend has known him, around three years, the friend said.

- - -

So the guy searched a trash bin, found something, and injected it?

”Sajid Javid tells the Commons that the pair are still in a critical condition after being poisoned with the same nerve agent that harmed the Skripals.

It is unacceptable "for our streets, our parks, our towns to be dumping grounds for poison," he says

The Russian government is undermining our national security and it is "completely unacceptable for our people to be deliberate or accidental targets," he says”


So Britain is accusing Russia to dump poison in trash bins in Britain?
Sam Adams
Thu Jul 05 11:09:26
The uk was too busy with white guilt and building a trump baby balloon to properly clean up after the first soviet attack?
Thu Jul 05 11:12:43
I doubt they injected it. That would kill quickly. More likely they picked up e.g. a syringe and got skin contamination.


They've done a lot of cleaning up but they can't decontaminate areas they don't know are contaminated.
Thu Jul 05 11:18:20
The entire story is probably a cover up for a string of drug overdoses, conveniently blamed on putin because the father & daughter were Russians.

Localized nature of the now 4 suspected poisonings lends to the theory that it's a bad batch of H being dealt locally.

Keep crying Russia though!
Average Ameriacn
Thu Jul 05 11:26:04
We could send an FBI team to investigate and catch the terrorists if the UK would agree to total denucularization. Deal?
Anarchist Prime
Thu Jul 05 11:43:08
can't wait for the white helmets to start finding novichok in syria.
Sam Adams
Thu Jul 05 12:02:24
To be fair it is probably russias fault but the uks staggering incompetence of late makes their judgement somewhat questionable.
Thu Jul 05 12:06:08
Assuming that it was novichok and not heroin in that trash bin – the police should now know where Skripal’s attacker went afterwards. The attacker traveled north from Salisbury to Amesbury where he dumped novichok in a bin.

The question now is, why did the attacker go to Amesbury?

Does he have friends there who helped him?
Does he live there?
Does suspicious Russians live there?

Was he only passing through? And in that case where did he go from there? Did he continue to travel north?

Because just north of Amesbury is Bulbord Camp and Bulford Barracks:

Bulford Camp is a military camp on Salisbury Plain in Wiltshire, England. Established in 1897, the site continues in use as a large British Army base. The camp is close to the village of Bulford and is about 2 1⁄4 miles (3.6 km) northeast of the town of Amesbury.


It is owned by the Ministry of Defense.

Any chance that the attacker was heading back to that military base?

Am I about to solve this case?
Thu Jul 05 12:21:34
Maybe jergul is right - funny how this story breaks right as the Chequers summit is coming up. Anything it takes to keep May's government from imploding over Brexit.
Thu Jul 05 13:39:27

Why exactly would a Swiss lab and the OPWC engage in a cover up over a bad batch of heroin?
Thu Jul 05 13:43:51

Extrapolating wildly there.

If it's a government set opp, why would the attacker stop off to dump the materials in Amesburry when he access to facilities to dispose?
Thu Jul 05 13:46:10

The threat to may is entirely the ERG MPs, who care about one thing only.

How does this help her? Rees Mogg isn't going to decide a customs union is ok because novichok.

Other than that, public perception is irrelevant for at least another year maybe three.
Thu Jul 05 14:15:35
”why would the attacker stop off to dump the materials in Amesburry when he access to facilities to dispose?”

Maybe the attacker didn’t want to bring the evidence to the military base. I don’t know.

But why did the attacker travel to Amesbury? Is the attacker still there?

Has the police searched the bin and the bag of novichok for fingerprints?
Thu Jul 05 17:04:25
Seb: just for waaah russia
the wanderer
Thu Jul 05 23:04:52
leave Putin alone!

Fri Jul 06 05:05:08

If he set out from a base on a mission (and this is a really odd thing for the regular army don't you think?) then it would be official at some level and there would be plans to make sure precisely this didn't happen.

If on the other hand, it is a foreign agent with limited footprint and support base in the country, it make perfect sense to dump materials - somewhere out of the immediate vicinity but which doesn't mean carrying something quite dangerous for too long.

Amesbury makes sense. It's the next big town.

Why would he still be there?

Fri Jul 06 05:06:34
And a syringe in an urban setting is going to attract less attention.

Indeed, dumping the syringe near where drug users discard theirs make it less incongruous.

Bad luck if someone decides to pick it up and re-use it though.

Anarchist Prime
Fri Jul 06 10:08:35
The Amesbury Mystery 598

5 Jul, 2018 in Uncategorized by craig

We are continually presented with experts by the mainstream media who will validate whatever miraculous property of “novichok” is needed to fit in with the government’s latest wild anti-Russian story. Tonight Newsnight wheeled out a chemical weapons expert to tell us that “novichok” is “extremely persistent” and therefore that used to attack the Skripals could still be lurking potent on a bush in a park.

Yet only three months ago we had this example of scores from the MSM giving the same message which was the government line at that time:
“Professor Robert Stockman, of the University of Nottingham, said traces of nerve agents did not linger. He added: ‘These agents react with water to degrade, including moisture in the air, and so in the UK they would have a very limited lifetime. This is presumably why the street in Salisbury was being hosed down as a precaution – it would effectively destroy the agent.'”

In fact, rain affecting the “novichok” on the door handle was given as the reason that the Skripals were not killed. But now the properties of the agent have to fit a new narrative, so they transmute again.

It keeps happening. Do you remember when Novichok was the most deadly of substances, many times more powerful than VX or Sarin, and causing death in seconds? But then, when that needed to be altered to fit the government’s Skripal story, they found scientists to explain that actually no, it was pretty slow acting, absorbed gradually through the skin, and not all that deadly.

Scientists are an interesting bunch. More than willing to ascribe whatever properties fit the government’s ever more implausible stories, in exchange for an MSM appearance fee, 5 minutes of fame and the fond hope of a research grant.

According to the Daily Telegraph today, the unfortunate Charlie Rowley is a registered heroin addict, and if true Occam’s Razor would indicate that is a rather more likely reason for his present state than an inexplicably persistent weaponised nerve agent.

If it is however true that two separate attacks have been carried out with “novichok” a few miles either side of Porton Down, where “novichok” is synthesised and stored for “testing purposes”, what does Occam’s razor suggest is the source of the nerve agent? A question not one MSM journalist seems to have asked themselves tonight.

I am slightly puzzled by the picture the media are trying to paint of Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess as homeless, unemployed addicts. The Guardian and Sky News both state that they were unemployed, yet Charlie was living in a very new house in Muggleton Road, Amesbury, which is pretty expensive. According to Zoopla homes range up to £430,000 and the cheapest ones are £270,000. They are all new build, on a new estate, which is still under construction.

Both Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess still have active facebook pages and one of Charlie’s handful of “Likes” is a mortgage broker, which is consistent with his brand new house. They don’t give mortgages to unemployed heroin addicts, and not many of those live in smart new “executive housing” estates. Both Charlie and Dawn appear from their facebook pages to be very well socialised, with Dawn having many friends in the teaching profession. Even if she has been homeless for a period as reported, she is plainly very much part of the community.

Naturally, there is no mention in all the reports today of MI6’s Pablo Miller, who remains the subject of a D notice. I wonder if he knows Rowley and Sturgess, living in the same community? It should be recalled that Salisbury may be a city, but its population is only 45,000.

The most important thing is of course that Charlie and Dawn recover. But tonight, even at this early stage, as with the entire Skripal saga, the message the security services are seeking to give out does not add up. Mark Urban’s piece for Newsnight tonight was simply disgusting; it did not even pretend to be more than a propaganda piece on behalf of the security services, who had told Urban (as he said) that Yulia Skripal’s phone “could have been” tapped by the Russians and they “might even” have listened to her conversations through the microphone in her telephone. That was the “new evidence” that the Russians were behind everything.

As a former British Ambassador I can tell you with certainty that indeed the Russians might have tapped Yulia, but GCHQ most definitely would have. It is, after all, their job, and billions of our taxes go into it. If tapping of phones is seriously presented as evidence of intent to murder, the British government must be very murderous indeed.


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