Utopia Talk / Politics / David Davis (Brexit Secretary resigns...

Seb Member	Sun Jul 08 18:01:53 I have heard that his resignation letter is the first official document he has actually managed to complete as Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union. I mean yes, we are likely about to watch the UK government implode yet again at the worst possible time for the country, and the every growing spectre of the cold, dead hands of the unreformed zombie 1970's tankies and trots gaining power under Corbyn - finally inheriting the world (or the UK at least) after everyone else is done with it. But one cannot help feeling the joyous schadenfreude of watching these fucktards immolate themselves. I am so glad I'm leaving in a few weeks.
Seb Member	Sun Jul 08 18:05:34 Nick Macpherson (Former Permanent Secretary for HM Treasury, if not the, then arguably the second, most powerful role in the civil service), who has since retiring allowed the field in which he grows his fucks to become a barren and desolate place, sums up the view of officialdom nicely: ‏ "As the 2019 spending review gets under way, the Treasury chalks up its first efficiency improvement."
Seb Member	Sun Jul 08 18:09:26 And while "commentators" and "friends of David Davis" are saying "this is brave and principled move", one should not forget the Cabinet Deal to define what it is we actually want was agreed on Friday night. Is it not convenient that the time David Davis needed to come to the conclusion that this is untenable was just enough time for fellow brexiteers Boris, Fox and Gove all being on weekend media reluctantly toeing the line, while still being before the 1922 committee meeting tomorrow afternoon where backbenchers must decide to topple may or shut up?
Seb Member	Sun Jul 08 18:10:39 (I appreciate nobody else here is going to be in the slight bit interested in all this). Hilariously, it looks like the Conservatives really are going to have a stab-fest in the week that England comes the closest to winning the world cup in 50 years. These guys really are all morons.
Rugian Member	Sun Jul 08 18:42:31 Seb, Were you really expecting otherwise? Soft Brexit is a shit proposal for the UK, and the Brexiteers among the Tories were never going to go for it. And that's just the government's starting position, which leaves open the possibility of further concessions to the EU in the future. May's refusal to firmly commit to Brexit has led to this crisis. We all knew this was eventually going to happen, it's just fun to finally see the other shoe drop.
Seb Member	Sun Jul 08 18:59:05 Rugian: Hard brexit is even more shit - it leads to the gutting of our manufacturing industry and very likely leads to break up of the UK looking at NI polling. Contrary to assertions, we do not trade with the rest of the world via WTO rules but by a huge number of FTAs between countries and the EU which we lose. There simply isn't a sensible way out, and once out we are worse off in all situations as the EU, China and the US are all sufficiently large they can impose upon us. I thought the brexit would do anything to get over the line, then try to harden from there. Going to a hard cliff edge brexit is suicidal for everyone.
Seb Member	Sun Jul 08 19:03:32 Steve Baker's gone. Very influential with ERG. May might be in trouble. Thing is, unless the brexiteers actually no confidence the govt, I can't see they can do much but trigger a leadership competition which May would likely win.
Seb Member	Sun Jul 08 19:04:56 So... all of this is about the brexiteers (who lead the negotiations and failed) jumping ship to maintain ideological purity and blame someone else.
Pillz Member	Sun Jul 08 19:20:37 Only to you
Rugian Member	Sun Jul 08 19:28:42 Seb, Soft Brexit means that the UK is doomed to be a puppet state of the EU for all eternity. Every demand the EU makes will be rigorously enforced within the UK, while the UK will have zero influence on what EU policy will be going forward. Hard Brexit would result in independence for the United Kingdom. I realize that you have zero respect for that idea, but it would at least enable your country to make its own policy decisions. The fact that May agreed to soft Brexit at this point, when she's still primarily arguing with members of her own government, is telling. She clearly intends on making further concessions to the EU in the next year, and needs to be stopped from doing so.
Seb Member	Mon Jul 09 01:52:25 Rugian: Yes. Hard brexit will result in independence without power or prosperity, which isn't much either. Hence I supported remain and continue to do so - because negotiation with partners as equals remains the best approach. This argument that as members we weren't independent was always bollocks. We basically got everything we wanted. Access to a huge market and industries that can't be sustained outside that, outside the Schengen zones and euro (the latter being a real imposition), opt outs on the stupidity and any new stupidity. And I did say back before the referendum this would be the result. Formal acceptance of Vassal state, or informal where we keep the trappings of independent decision making but where China, EU and US control our choice architecture. Anyone who couldn't see this comming years ago is a retard.
Seb Member	Mon Jul 09 04:44:43 This is how I would have approached brexit: 1. Don't trigger a50. Wait. Act with confidence and ignore the brexiteers politicians. State firmly that the UK would begin planning on the basis of WTO, open to building deeper collaboration from that basis but would not trigger a50 until it has a workable plan. Ignore EU govts. 2. Plan in the open. Don't create DExEU, instead a Cabinet Office / HMT led taskforce built on EGIS, to coordinate but not decide policy. 3. Convene a number of workshops - I quite like unconference format - across the civil service. Each dept and agency would be tasked with doing this. Open to all grades. The objective would be to flush out all possible issues, and start building the network of brexit minded subject matter experts in depts and agencies. 4. Use industrial policy as a mechanism to start mapping UK industrial value chains, and brexit impacts. Wardley mapping is a good tool for this. 5. Set up DIT, task is to identify how a transition period would work and begin securing agreements in principle to roll over EU deals in a transition period. Also, work with value chain mapping to develop a mixed trade/industry policy - a workable plan to minimise consumer costs of brexit through unilateral free trade and standards cuts if necessary while protecting sectors with most value add. Subsidise the fuck out of fracking. 6. Review the IAP portfolio. Cancel all projects not criterical to free up resources. Task GDS, CCS etc. with developing standards and commercial frameworks to be able to stand up agencies corporate infrastructure really quickly; and review existing tech and commercial contracts for things that would slow practical implementation. Begin making those changes - paying down tech debt pays for itself. Now brexiteers would hate this. Because all the painful intractable shit would come to the surface. And things like fracking and increased government expenditure are things that constituency hates. But, you'd be prepared, you would worry Europe (which wants us tied to their standards, what they stand to lose is less fron tarrifs but far, far more loss of market share), and you'd have a fighting chance of securing the best possible deal after membership. You also buy time for the EU to consider how it would make an associate membership deal work. If you really wanted to up the pressure, you'd start to make big diplomatic overtures using military and aid to EU adjacent countries, and hold open the door to Putin - stay short of committing of course. You'd cover this with the kind of "global Britain wants to have friends and no enemies" guff Turkey used to. The failure of brexit is simply the fact that brexiteers gave no plan and beyond leaving, don't have the slightest idea what they actually want to do with their new found freedom.
Paramount Member	Mon Jul 09 04:54:21 A Jew is taking over: Dominic Raab has been appointed Brexit Secretary by Theresa May after David Davis resigned from the government. Mr Raab, who is currently housing minister, was a prominent Leave campaigner during the 2016 referendum. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44763998 Raab grew up in Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, the son of a Czech-born Jewish father, who came to Britain in 1938 as a refugee. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Raab
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Mon Jul 09 09:53:01 http://www...unting-brexit-crisis-1.4005505
Seb Member	Mon Jul 09 10:04:18 If he'd held on a little he could have been foreign secretary
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Jul 09 12:07:43 will your Queen debase herself and allow Trump to touch her? what if he does his yank shake? will he be executed? cause that would be fine w/ us
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