Utopia Talk - Politics - Trump tells erdogan to bend the knee

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump tells erdogan to bend the knee

Aeros
Member Thu Jul 26 13:56:02
About time too. Turkey has been way to big for its britches. Recalcitrant vassal need to be reminded of their place. In the grand scheme of things it's a minor thing for Turkey to do to assure America of its friendship, but the way it's being demanded pretty much insures full humiliation for the wannabe Shah. Be interesting to see which bends first. His pride or his economy. No sympathy either, the Turks have been asking for it for years now.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna894876

Forwyn
Member Thu Jul 26 14:08:42
While I would prefer "Release him or we Make Istanbul Constantinople Again", any egg on the face of the aspiring neo-Ottoman Caliphate is great.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Thu Jul 26 14:13:15
God wills it!

yankeessuck123
Member Thu Jul 26 15:26:31
Sounds like Pence told him to do this.

Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ Thu Jul 26 15:40:06
You mean Pence meakly held a sign requesting this while he was blowing him.

Pillz
Member Thu Jul 26 17:59:28
Turkey ain't gonna kneel unless you hand over Gulan

Aeros
Member Thu Jul 26 18:14:27
Still no evidence Gulan did anything though. We don't just "hand over" people.

Average Ameriacn
Member Thu Jul 26 18:23:46
He's a muslim, we should hand him over.

Forwyn
Member Thu Jul 26 18:42:37
Imagine completely squashing your dissent via a fake coup and the round-up and thousands of opposition, and still not being satisfied because of one exiled octogenarian.

The epitomized bull-headed Islamist

Aeros
Member Wed Aug 01 23:49:36
Turkey's justice and interior ministers were just sanctioned under the magnetism act, which means any assets they have in the Usa, like stocks, money and property are now seized by the government, and us citizens and corporations can no longer do business with them.

All in all, very minor, except for the fact that this is a NATO member. First time the Usa leveled sanctions on an allies government. Somehow I don't think the sultan will get the hint which could be bad or turkey. Erodogans chance to save face was when this was behind closed doors. Now though the gloves are off, and he is in no position to bargain. Not after he over extended Turkey's economy to secure his reelection. Trump can crash Turkey's economy with a pen stroke. And he knows it. The sultan is going to have to kiss the brass ring.

Aeros
Member Wed Aug 01 23:50:24
Magnitsky act tucking autocorrect

Pillz
Member Wed Aug 01 23:57:53
You've been drinking, don't blame the phone.

Paramount
Member Thu Aug 02 03:16:54
"There is no doubt that this will greatly damage constructive efforts working to solve the issues between the two countries," the foreign ministry said in a statement.

"Without delay, there will be a response to this aggressive attitude that will not serve any purpose," the ministry added.

Gul on Twitter later dismissed the sanctions, saying that he had no assets abroad.

"I have neither a tree planted nor one penny in the US or any other country outside of Turkey," Gul said.

http://afp.omni.se/269ec3d2-c84e-47c8-93d1-24155f10118b

lol. Let’s see what the response from Turkey will be. Technically I guess they could make it difficult for the US to operate in Turkey. US kinda needs Turkey as a strategic partner. This partnership may come to an end, and it will benefit Russia as their influence in the region will increase.

Paramount
Member Thu Aug 02 03:20:26
So in the end, it looks like it is the USA who is gonna bend the knee to Russia :)

Aeros
Member Wed Aug 08 18:59:31
Erdogan so this deteriorating situation and decided to throw gas on the fire.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/08/08/turkish-lawyers-seek-arrest-us-service-members-incirlik-air-base.html

Turkish Lawyers Seek Arrest of US Service Members on Incirlik Air Base

A group of pro-government lawyers in Turkey have filed charges against several U.S. officers associated with Incirlik Air Base, seeking their arrest for alleged ties to terrorist groups.

The accusations come amid increased tensions between the U.S. and Turkey, a NATO ally that has cracked down in recent years on political opposition, shut down media outlets and tightened control of the court system, according to international aid groups.

The lawyers are seeking a temporarily halt to all flights leaving the base and access to execute a search warrant, according to court papers filed last week by the Association for Social Justice and Aid. The group is a well-known, non-governmental organization made up of backers of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The Stockholm Center for Freedom, a group of exiled journalists from Turkey, said that the warrants were likely filed in response to the U.S. levying economic sanctions on Interior Minister Suleyman Soylu and Justice Minister Abdulhamit Gul for their roles in the detention of American pastor Andrew Brunson.

Brunson has been held in prison since October 2016 on charges of belonging to a terrorist organization, allegations that the U.S. government and international human rights organizations refute.

The U.S. imposed the sanctions after Turkey refused to free Brunson, who was last week moved from prison to house arrest in İzmir for pretrial detention.

Erdogan has publicly linked the release of Brunson to a request for the U.S. to deport Muhammed Fethullah Gulen, a Muslim religious leader living in Pennsylvania that the Turkish government says is responsible for the July 15, 2016 coup attempt in Turkey.

The court papers accuse the American officers and NCOs cited of having connections to the FETO group allegedly run by Gulen and trying to "destroy the constitutional order" of Turkey.

The 60-page criminal complaint seeks the arrest of Col. John C. Walker, Col. Michael H. Manion, Col. David Eaglen, Col. David Trucksa, Lt. Col. Timothy J. Cook, Lt. Col. Mack R. Coker, and Sgts. Thomas S. Cooper and Vegas M. Clark.

Gen. Joseph Votel, the commander of the U.S. Central Command, retired U.S. Army Gen. John F. Campbell and Air Force Brig. Gen. Rick Boutwell, director of regional affairs for the deputy under secretary of the Air Force, were also named in the complaint.

The Air Force said it is aware of the reports but referred all questions to the Turkish government for comment.

"We continue to carry out our mission here at Incirlik Air Base, and we are proud of the relationship we have with our Turkish military partners," said Air Force Capt. Amanda Herman, spokeswoman for the base.

Aeros
Member Wed Aug 08 18:59:49
http://www...embers-incirlik-air-base.html

murder
Member Wed Aug 08 20:13:55

Not to be an ass, but this never happened when Obama was in office. :o)

Pillz
Member Wed Aug 08 21:52:15
Turkey cut power to and encircled the place under Obama. And I'm sure they also demanded personnel (tho not Americans) be handed over.

Aeros
Member Fri Aug 10 13:10:25
Turkish economy has started to crash.

Average Ameriacn
Member Fri Aug 10 13:34:56
That's what they deserve for buying AA from the Russians!!!

Paramount
Member Fri Aug 10 13:43:17
Well, if they are terrorists or was involved in the failed military coup in Turkey they should go to jail. If Turkey has evidence it makes sense that they seek to arrest the terrorists and let a court judge them.

Forwyn
Member Fri Aug 10 14:22:13
Ah yes, the "coup". lol

Paramount
Member Sat Aug 11 11:25:45
In an opinion article published in the New York Times on Saturday, Erdogan wrote that Turkey and the U.S. had been strategic partners and NATO allies for the past six decades and that his country had repeatedly come to America's aid.

“Yet the United States has repeatedly and consistently failed to understand and respect the Turkish people’s concerns,” he wrote in the article, warning that Turkey had alternative allies.

"Before it is too late, Washington must give up the misguided notion that our relationship can be asymmetrical and come to terms with the fact that Turkey has alternatives. Failure to reverse this trend of unilateralism and disrespect will require us to start looking for new friends and allies," Erdogan said.

Erdogan said his decision to sanction the U.S. in retaliation for American sanctions was to convey that Turkey “does not respond to threats.”

“Moving forward, we will abide by the same principle: Attempting to force my government to intervene in the judicial process is not in line with our Constitution or our shared democratic value,” he warned.

Turkey, home to the Incirlik air base which is used by U.S. forces in the Middle East, has been a NATO member since the 1950s. It is host to a critical part of the Western alliance's missile defense system again Iran.

In a separate opinion piece in the pro-government newspaper Daily Sabah, Erdogan's spokesman Ibrahim Kalin said Turkey's efforts to solve the crisis with diplomatic methods have been dismissed by the Trump administration, warning that Washington might completely lose Ankara as an ally.

"The U.S. runs the risk of losing Turkey as a whole. The entire Turkish public is against U.S. policies that disregard Turkey's legitimate security demands. Threats, sanctions and bullying against Turkey will not work," he said.

htts://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/erdogan-warns-trump-turkey-does-not-respond-threats-n899886

Erdogan sounds more reasonable and rational than Trump.

Allahuakbar
Member Sat Aug 11 11:36:50
Everybody knows that Israel ordered Trump to bully Turkey.

murder
Member Sat Aug 11 12:52:53

The only unacceptable outcome to this standoff is Andrew Brunson returning to the US. Every other outcome is fine.

Forwyn
Member Sat Aug 11 18:36:52
He applied for permanent residency in Turkey. No one cares if he leaves the Islamic shithole, only that they strike their bunk charges and release him.

murder
Member Sun Aug 12 08:39:30

That would be stupid. Just drag him out behind the prison and put a bullet in the back of his skull.

That would resolve the problem.

Aeros
Member Sun Aug 12 14:11:35
Yeah, that would be a bad idea on Turkey's part.

murder
Member Sun Aug 12 15:41:04

It wouldn't be anything. The sanctions only exist to get him released. Once that's impossible, there's no point to the sanctions.

Rugian
Member Sun Aug 12 17:17:46
^clearly not fit to run an empire. You don't tolerate the murder of our citizens at the hands of barbarian scum, you nimrod.

jergul
large member Sun Aug 12 17:19:31
Typical murder not to understnd the concept of Roman citizenship.

murder
Member Sun Aug 12 18:49:34

"You don't tolerate the murder of our citizens at the hands of barbarian scum"

I don't see why not. We kill our own citizens without so much as a trial all the time.

Pillz
Member Sun Aug 12 21:03:24
What happened to murder the imperialist?

hood
Member Sun Aug 12 21:41:35
That would require Mr. Raised Right to be consistent.

murder
Member Mon Aug 13 20:45:34

"What happened to murder the imperialist?"

I don't know wtf you're talking about.

murder
Member Mon Aug 13 20:46:17

"That would require Mr. Raised Right to be consistent." - Mr Butthurt Stalker

Daemon
Member Tue Aug 14 05:52:49
In before someone claims it's all the fault of reckless lending of German banks:

http://www...posure-to-turkey-idUSKBN1KY1WT

MILAN (Reuters) - Turkey’s economic crisis poses a threat to European banks with business in the country.

Spain’s BBVA (BBVA.MC), Italy’s UniCredit (CRDI.MI), France’s BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA), Dutch bank ING (INGA.AS) and Britain’s HSBC (HSBA.L) are the most exposed to Turkey and vulnerable to its free-falling currency.
[...]

Aeros
Member Tue Aug 14 09:19:16
I wonder if Erdogan believes this really is a giant plot against him. Probably easier for him to accept then that it's entirely due to his incompetence and hubris.

murder
Member Tue Aug 14 10:19:22

It's not particularly relevant if it's a plot against him or not. What matters is whether Turkey is inclined to bend over or not.

murder
Member Thu Aug 16 18:47:23

So any theory on why Erdogan doesn't invade Iraq and take their oil? It seems like low hanging fruit, and it would allow the Turks to wipe out the Kurds and stick it to Trump in the process.

Forwyn
Member Thu Aug 16 19:16:13
I would love to see Erdogan try that.

Aeros
Member Thu Aug 16 22:15:39
Yeah, he won't do that. It's the one thing that would unite everyone against him. Besides, he wants to cozy up with Iran and attack Iraq pretty much means war with Iran at this point.

Also, U.S. treasury department is warning more sanctions will be applied if Brunson is not released, and Trump is warning the U.S. will pay turkey "nothing" in exchange for it.

Aeros
Member Thu Aug 16 22:23:50
Apparently what has Trump cheesed off is that he was able to get Israel to release a Turkish national after a call to "his good friend" Netanyahu. It was done under the expectation that Brunson would be released, but Erdogan reneged on the deal.

It's not like Trump is a complicated man to understand. The results are pretty obvious. I honestly don't know what Turkey was thinking.

Pillz
Member Thu Aug 16 23:08:54
Not sure what you're thinking.

Punishing a man sultan isn't the most sure fire way to maintain a key strategic alliance.

Aeros
Member Thu Aug 16 23:22:06
True. Turkey should have used more care with how it treated its strategic allies. It may very well lose the USA as a friend.

murder
Member Fri Aug 17 06:28:45

"Yeah, he won't do that. It's the one thing that would unite everyone against him."

Erdogan has nothing to worry about from everyone. It's not like they could stop him.

May as well withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty while he's at it, to milk the sanctions they are being hit with.

Forwyn
Member Fri Aug 17 14:15:53
LOL what?

Erdogan would be utterly embarrassed in hours, on par with Saddam.

murder
Member Fri Aug 17 16:56:14

Turkey isn't Iraq. Turkey isn't even Iran or North Korea. If you think they are, you need to put on some glasses.

Forwyn
Member Fri Aug 17 17:32:29
No, Turkey isn't Iraq, that's for sure. They don't have the fourth largest army in the world, with a veteran officer corps following a brutal ten-year war.

Nah, they have less tanks and less personnel; their entire war effort would hinge on 1k planes and 13 subs.

Fucking lol that you think that Turkey would fare any better than Iraq did.

murder
Member Fri Aug 17 19:28:27

"No, Turkey isn't Iraq, that's for sure. They don't have the fourth largest army in the world, with a veteran officer corps following a brutal ten-year war."

lol! Cannon fodder is irrelevant to modern warfare. And a "brutal" war vs an enemy whose primary weapon is throwing waves of men at them. Please!

"Fucking lol that you think that Turkey would fare any better than Iraq did. "

They are guaranteed to fare better ... because the US would never dare to send ground forces into Turkey.

kargen
Member Fri Aug 17 19:59:41
The only reason Turkey is in NATO is because of the countries they border to the East and the South. The only real threat they have in trying to negotiate is not allowing other NATO members to fly over their airspace.

Forwyn
Member Fri Aug 17 20:34:07
"modern warfare"

Again, Turkey loses there. All that stands between the US/NATO are 13 subs and 1k planes. They have twice as many planes, so perhaps they last days instead of hours.

"an enemy whose primary weapon is throwing waves of men at them."

Lol! Iran had an advantage in both armor and air power. Only embargoes, significant Western aid, and not only a blind eye, but outright support of chemical weapons attacks, prevented Iraq from being rolled over. That support continued after the war, allowing Iraq to build up extensively.

"because the US would never dare to send ground forces into Turkey."

Retarded. Once the Turkish air force is smoldering, it'll be a month of crapshooting the ground forces. Then Turkey gets rolled over by a Marine/Army pincer as the US freely lands in the west and moves into the east from Iraq.

For every numerical, logistical, and technological advantage Turkey has over Gulf War Iraq, US generals have had another year to study and improve upon Gulf War tactics.

"The only reason Turkey is in NATO is because of the countries they border to the East and the South."

One word: Bosphorus.

Forwyn
Member Fri Aug 17 20:34:36
between the US/NATO and air/naval superiority*

kargen
Member Fri Aug 17 21:13:08
okay two reasons both being location.

murder
Member Fri Aug 17 22:44:06

"Again, Turkey loses there. All that stands between the US/NATO are 13 subs and 1k planes."

WTF does "NATO" have to do with anything? NATO is not and would not be involved.

And it doesn't matter how many planes and subs they have. They can drop a few bombs and missiles ... and then what?

They are not coming ashore. Ever.

"Lol! Iran had an advantage in both armor and air power."

No, that's just wrong. ot that it matters since this wasn't a board game. You can have a limitless supply of tanks and fighters, but if you don't know what the hell you're doing and can't maintain them, they may as well be bricks.

"Retarded. Once the Turkish air force is smoldering, it'll be a month of crapshooting the ground forces. Then Turkey gets rolled over by a Marine/Army pincer as the US freely lands in the west and moves into the east from Iraq."

You can "crap shoot" ground forces all you like. Again, this isn't Iraq. Iraq had a population of ~ 25,000,000, and only ~ 1/3 of those were loyal to the government. Turkey is a nation of 80,000,000. The US doesn't stock enough body bags to even dream of landing troops in Turkey.

And you think a landing would work out? You realize that weapons have advanced a ton since the Korean War, right? How the fuck do you figure they get ashore without getting turned into hamburger meat by anti-tank missiles?

"For every numerical, logistical, and technological advantage Turkey has over Gulf War Iraq, US generals have had another year to study and improve upon Gulf War tactics."

That's nice. It doesn't change the facts on the ground though.

For whatever reason, people think that just because the US has the most powerful and capable armed forces in the world by far ... that that advantage applies to any spot on the planet. It doesn't.

In boxing terms, Iraq was a tomato can.

Apparently you think that the US hasn't invaded Iran because we just haven't found the time. That's not it. We have limited resources, and that means that we have to limit ourselves to beating up on the small and the weak. Iran would be a much much tougher nut to crack than Iraq (read as many more deaths), and Turkey would be much much tougher than Iran.

show deleted posts

Aeros Member	Thu Jul 26 13:56:02 About time too. Turkey has been way to big for its britches. Recalcitrant vassal need to be reminded of their place. In the grand scheme of things it's a minor thing for Turkey to do to assure America of its friendship, but the way it's being demanded pretty much insures full humiliation for the wannabe Shah. Be interesting to see which bends first. His pride or his economy. No sympathy either, the Turks have been asking for it for years now. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna894876
Forwyn Member	Thu Jul 26 14:08:42 While I would prefer "Release him or we Make Istanbul Constantinople Again", any egg on the face of the aspiring neo-Ottoman Caliphate is great.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Jul 26 14:13:15 God wills it!
yankeessuck123 Member	Thu Jul 26 15:26:31 Sounds like Pence told him to do this.
Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Thu Jul 26 15:40:06 You mean Pence meakly held a sign requesting this while he was blowing him.
Pillz Member	Thu Jul 26 17:59:28 Turkey ain't gonna kneel unless you hand over Gulan
Aeros Member	Thu Jul 26 18:14:27 Still no evidence Gulan did anything though. We don't just "hand over" people.
Average Ameriacn Member	Thu Jul 26 18:23:46 He's a muslim, we should hand him over.
Forwyn Member	Thu Jul 26 18:42:37 Imagine completely squashing your dissent via a fake coup and the round-up and thousands of opposition, and still not being satisfied because of one exiled octogenarian. The epitomized bull-headed Islamist
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 01 23:49:36 Turkey's justice and interior ministers were just sanctioned under the magnetism act, which means any assets they have in the Usa, like stocks, money and property are now seized by the government, and us citizens and corporations can no longer do business with them. All in all, very minor, except for the fact that this is a NATO member. First time the Usa leveled sanctions on an allies government. Somehow I don't think the sultan will get the hint which could be bad or turkey. Erodogans chance to save face was when this was behind closed doors. Now though the gloves are off, and he is in no position to bargain. Not after he over extended Turkey's economy to secure his reelection. Trump can crash Turkey's economy with a pen stroke. And he knows it. The sultan is going to have to kiss the brass ring.
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 01 23:50:24 Magnitsky act tucking autocorrect
Pillz Member	Wed Aug 01 23:57:53 You've been drinking, don't blame the phone.
Paramount Member	Thu Aug 02 03:16:54 "There is no doubt that this will greatly damage constructive efforts working to solve the issues between the two countries," the foreign ministry said in a statement. "Without delay, there will be a response to this aggressive attitude that will not serve any purpose," the ministry added. Gul on Twitter later dismissed the sanctions, saying that he had no assets abroad. "I have neither a tree planted nor one penny in the US or any other country outside of Turkey," Gul said. http://afp.omni.se/269ec3d2-c84e-47c8-93d1-24155f10118b lol. Let’s see what the response from Turkey will be. Technically I guess they could make it difficult for the US to operate in Turkey. US kinda needs Turkey as a strategic partner. This partnership may come to an end, and it will benefit Russia as their influence in the region will increase.
Paramount Member	Thu Aug 02 03:20:26 So in the end, it looks like it is the USA who is gonna bend the knee to Russia :)
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 08 18:59:31 Erdogan so this deteriorating situation and decided to throw gas on the fire. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/08/08/turkish-lawyers-seek-arrest-us-service-members-incirlik-air-base.html Turkish Lawyers Seek Arrest of US Service Members on Incirlik Air Base A group of pro-government lawyers in Turkey have filed charges against several U.S. officers associated with Incirlik Air Base, seeking their arrest for alleged ties to terrorist groups. The accusations come amid increased tensions between the U.S. and Turkey, a NATO ally that has cracked down in recent years on political opposition, shut down media outlets and tightened control of the court system, according to international aid groups. The lawyers are seeking a temporarily halt to all flights leaving the base and access to execute a search warrant, according to court papers filed last week by the Association for Social Justice and Aid. The group is a well-known, non-governmental organization made up of backers of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The Stockholm Center for Freedom, a group of exiled journalists from Turkey, said that the warrants were likely filed in response to the U.S. levying economic sanctions on Interior Minister Suleyman Soylu and Justice Minister Abdulhamit Gul for their roles in the detention of American pastor Andrew Brunson. Brunson has been held in prison since October 2016 on charges of belonging to a terrorist organization, allegations that the U.S. government and international human rights organizations refute. The U.S. imposed the sanctions after Turkey refused to free Brunson, who was last week moved from prison to house arrest in İzmir for pretrial detention. Erdogan has publicly linked the release of Brunson to a request for the U.S. to deport Muhammed Fethullah Gulen, a Muslim religious leader living in Pennsylvania that the Turkish government says is responsible for the July 15, 2016 coup attempt in Turkey. The court papers accuse the American officers and NCOs cited of having connections to the FETO group allegedly run by Gulen and trying to "destroy the constitutional order" of Turkey. The 60-page criminal complaint seeks the arrest of Col. John C. Walker, Col. Michael H. Manion, Col. David Eaglen, Col. David Trucksa, Lt. Col. Timothy J. Cook, Lt. Col. Mack R. Coker, and Sgts. Thomas S. Cooper and Vegas M. Clark. Gen. Joseph Votel, the commander of the U.S. Central Command, retired U.S. Army Gen. John F. Campbell and Air Force Brig. Gen. Rick Boutwell, director of regional affairs for the deputy under secretary of the Air Force, were also named in the complaint. The Air Force said it is aware of the reports but referred all questions to the Turkish government for comment. "We continue to carry out our mission here at Incirlik Air Base, and we are proud of the relationship we have with our Turkish military partners," said Air Force Capt. Amanda Herman, spokeswoman for the base.
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 08 18:59:49 http://www...embers-incirlik-air-base.html
murder Member	Wed Aug 08 20:13:55 Not to be an ass, but this never happened when Obama was in office. :o)
Pillz Member	Wed Aug 08 21:52:15 Turkey cut power to and encircled the place under Obama. And I'm sure they also demanded personnel (tho not Americans) be handed over.
Aeros Member	Fri Aug 10 13:10:25 Turkish economy has started to crash.
Average Ameriacn Member	Fri Aug 10 13:34:56 That's what they deserve for buying AA from the Russians!!!
Paramount Member	Fri Aug 10 13:43:17 Well, if they are terrorists or was involved in the failed military coup in Turkey they should go to jail. If Turkey has evidence it makes sense that they seek to arrest the terrorists and let a court judge them.
Forwyn Member	Fri Aug 10 14:22:13 Ah yes, the "coup". lol
Paramount Member	Sat Aug 11 11:25:45 In an opinion article published in the New York Times on Saturday, Erdogan wrote that Turkey and the U.S. had been strategic partners and NATO allies for the past six decades and that his country had repeatedly come to America's aid. “Yet the United States has repeatedly and consistently failed to understand and respect the Turkish people’s concerns,” he wrote in the article, warning that Turkey had alternative allies. "Before it is too late, Washington must give up the misguided notion that our relationship can be asymmetrical and come to terms with the fact that Turkey has alternatives. Failure to reverse this trend of unilateralism and disrespect will require us to start looking for new friends and allies," Erdogan said. Erdogan said his decision to sanction the U.S. in retaliation for American sanctions was to convey that Turkey “does not respond to threats.” “Moving forward, we will abide by the same principle: Attempting to force my government to intervene in the judicial process is not in line with our Constitution or our shared democratic value,” he warned. Turkey, home to the Incirlik air base which is used by U.S. forces in the Middle East, has been a NATO member since the 1950s. It is host to a critical part of the Western alliance's missile defense system again Iran. In a separate opinion piece in the pro-government newspaper Daily Sabah, Erdogan's spokesman Ibrahim Kalin said Turkey's efforts to solve the crisis with diplomatic methods have been dismissed by the Trump administration, warning that Washington might completely lose Ankara as an ally. "The U.S. runs the risk of losing Turkey as a whole. The entire Turkish public is against U.S. policies that disregard Turkey's legitimate security demands. Threats, sanctions and bullying against Turkey will not work," he said. htts://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/erdogan-warns-trump-turkey-does-not-respond-threats-n899886 Erdogan sounds more reasonable and rational than Trump.
Allahuakbar Member	Sat Aug 11 11:36:50 Everybody knows that Israel ordered Trump to bully Turkey.
murder Member	Sat Aug 11 12:52:53 The only unacceptable outcome to this standoff is Andrew Brunson returning to the US. Every other outcome is fine.
Forwyn Member	Sat Aug 11 18:36:52 He applied for permanent residency in Turkey. No one cares if he leaves the Islamic shithole, only that they strike their bunk charges and release him.
murder Member	Sun Aug 12 08:39:30 That would be stupid. Just drag him out behind the prison and put a bullet in the back of his skull. That would resolve the problem.
Aeros Member	Sun Aug 12 14:11:35 Yeah, that would be a bad idea on Turkey's part.
murder Member	Sun Aug 12 15:41:04 It wouldn't be anything. The sanctions only exist to get him released. Once that's impossible, there's no point to the sanctions.
Rugian Member	Sun Aug 12 17:17:46 ^clearly not fit to run an empire. You don't tolerate the murder of our citizens at the hands of barbarian scum, you nimrod.
jergul large member	Sun Aug 12 17:19:31 Typical murder not to understnd the concept of Roman citizenship.
murder Member	Sun Aug 12 18:49:34 "You don't tolerate the murder of our citizens at the hands of barbarian scum" I don't see why not. We kill our own citizens without so much as a trial all the time.
Pillz Member	Sun Aug 12 21:03:24 What happened to murder the imperialist?
hood Member	Sun Aug 12 21:41:35 That would require Mr. Raised Right to be consistent.
murder Member	Mon Aug 13 20:45:34 "What happened to murder the imperialist?" I don't know wtf you're talking about.
murder Member	Mon Aug 13 20:46:17 "That would require Mr. Raised Right to be consistent." - Mr Butthurt Stalker
Daemon Member	Tue Aug 14 05:52:49 In before someone claims it's all the fault of reckless lending of German banks: http://www...posure-to-turkey-idUSKBN1KY1WT MILAN (Reuters) - Turkey’s economic crisis poses a threat to European banks with business in the country. Spain’s BBVA (BBVA.MC), Italy’s UniCredit (CRDI.MI), France’s BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA), Dutch bank ING (INGA.AS) and Britain’s HSBC (HSBA.L) are the most exposed to Turkey and vulnerable to its free-falling currency. [...]
Aeros Member	Tue Aug 14 09:19:16 I wonder if Erdogan believes this really is a giant plot against him. Probably easier for him to accept then that it's entirely due to his incompetence and hubris.
murder Member	Tue Aug 14 10:19:22 It's not particularly relevant if it's a plot against him or not. What matters is whether Turkey is inclined to bend over or not.
murder Member	Thu Aug 16 18:47:23 So any theory on why Erdogan doesn't invade Iraq and take their oil? It seems like low hanging fruit, and it would allow the Turks to wipe out the Kurds and stick it to Trump in the process.
Forwyn Member	Thu Aug 16 19:16:13 I would love to see Erdogan try that.
Aeros Member	Thu Aug 16 22:15:39 Yeah, he won't do that. It's the one thing that would unite everyone against him. Besides, he wants to cozy up with Iran and attack Iraq pretty much means war with Iran at this point. Also, U.S. treasury department is warning more sanctions will be applied if Brunson is not released, and Trump is warning the U.S. will pay turkey "nothing" in exchange for it.
Aeros Member	Thu Aug 16 22:23:50 Apparently what has Trump cheesed off is that he was able to get Israel to release a Turkish national after a call to "his good friend" Netanyahu. It was done under the expectation that Brunson would be released, but Erdogan reneged on the deal. It's not like Trump is a complicated man to understand. The results are pretty obvious. I honestly don't know what Turkey was thinking.
Pillz Member	Thu Aug 16 23:08:54 Not sure what you're thinking. Punishing a man sultan isn't the most sure fire way to maintain a key strategic alliance.
Aeros Member	Thu Aug 16 23:22:06 True. Turkey should have used more care with how it treated its strategic allies. It may very well lose the USA as a friend.
murder Member	Fri Aug 17 06:28:45 "Yeah, he won't do that. It's the one thing that would unite everyone against him." Erdogan has nothing to worry about from everyone. It's not like they could stop him. May as well withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty while he's at it, to milk the sanctions they are being hit with.
Forwyn Member	Fri Aug 17 14:15:53 LOL what? Erdogan would be utterly embarrassed in hours, on par with Saddam.
murder Member	Fri Aug 17 16:56:14 Turkey isn't Iraq. Turkey isn't even Iran or North Korea. If you think they are, you need to put on some glasses.
Forwyn Member	Fri Aug 17 17:32:29 No, Turkey isn't Iraq, that's for sure. They don't have the fourth largest army in the world, with a veteran officer corps following a brutal ten-year war. Nah, they have less tanks and less personnel; their entire war effort would hinge on 1k planes and 13 subs. Fucking lol that you think that Turkey would fare any better than Iraq did.
murder Member	Fri Aug 17 19:28:27 "No, Turkey isn't Iraq, that's for sure. They don't have the fourth largest army in the world, with a veteran officer corps following a brutal ten-year war." lol! Cannon fodder is irrelevant to modern warfare. And a "brutal" war vs an enemy whose primary weapon is throwing waves of men at them. Please! "Fucking lol that you think that Turkey would fare any better than Iraq did. " They are guaranteed to fare better ... because the US would never dare to send ground forces into Turkey.
kargen Member	Fri Aug 17 19:59:41 The only reason Turkey is in NATO is because of the countries they border to the East and the South. The only real threat they have in trying to negotiate is not allowing other NATO members to fly over their airspace.
Forwyn Member	Fri Aug 17 20:34:07 "modern warfare" Again, Turkey loses there. All that stands between the US/NATO are 13 subs and 1k planes. They have twice as many planes, so perhaps they last days instead of hours. "an enemy whose primary weapon is throwing waves of men at them." Lol! Iran had an advantage in both armor and air power. Only embargoes, significant Western aid, and not only a blind eye, but outright support of chemical weapons attacks, prevented Iraq from being rolled over. That support continued after the war, allowing Iraq to build up extensively. "because the US would never dare to send ground forces into Turkey." Retarded. Once the Turkish air force is smoldering, it'll be a month of crapshooting the ground forces. Then Turkey gets rolled over by a Marine/Army pincer as the US freely lands in the west and moves into the east from Iraq. For every numerical, logistical, and technological advantage Turkey has over Gulf War Iraq, US generals have had another year to study and improve upon Gulf War tactics. "The only reason Turkey is in NATO is because of the countries they border to the East and the South." One word: Bosphorus.
Forwyn Member	Fri Aug 17 20:34:36 between the US/NATO and air/naval superiority*
kargen Member	Fri Aug 17 21:13:08 okay two reasons both being location.
murder Member	Fri Aug 17 22:44:06 "Again, Turkey loses there. All that stands between the US/NATO are 13 subs and 1k planes." WTF does "NATO" have to do with anything? NATO is not and would not be involved. And it doesn't matter how many planes and subs they have. They can drop a few bombs and missiles ... and then what? They are not coming ashore. Ever. "Lol! Iran had an advantage in both armor and air power." No, that's just wrong. ot that it matters since this wasn't a board game. You can have a limitless supply of tanks and fighters, but if you don't know what the hell you're doing and can't maintain them, they may as well be bricks. "Retarded. Once the Turkish air force is smoldering, it'll be a month of crapshooting the ground forces. Then Turkey gets rolled over by a Marine/Army pincer as the US freely lands in the west and moves into the east from Iraq." You can "crap shoot" ground forces all you like. Again, this isn't Iraq. Iraq had a population of ~ 25,000,000, and only ~ 1/3 of those were loyal to the government. Turkey is a nation of 80,000,000. The US doesn't stock enough body bags to even dream of landing troops in Turkey. And you think a landing would work out? You realize that weapons have advanced a ton since the Korean War, right? How the fuck do you figure they get ashore without getting turned into hamburger meat by anti-tank missiles? "For every numerical, logistical, and technological advantage Turkey has over Gulf War Iraq, US generals have had another year to study and improve upon Gulf War tactics." That's nice. It doesn't change the facts on the ground though. For whatever reason, people think that just because the US has the most powerful and capable armed forces in the world by far ... that that advantage applies to any spot on the planet. It doesn't. In boxing terms, Iraq was a tomato can. Apparently you think that the US hasn't invaded Iran because we just haven't found the time. That's not it. We have limited resources, and that means that we have to limit ourselves to beating up on the small and the weak. Iran would be a much much tougher nut to crack than Iraq (read as many more deaths), and Turkey would be much much tougher than Iran.
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