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Utopia Talk / Politics / Imagine a nuclear-armed Germany
murder
Member
Sat Aug 04 08:30:57
No, this isn’t a fantasy à la “The Man in the High Castle” (Philip K. Dick’s dystopian novel in which the Nazis got the bomb first and dropped it on Washington to win World War II), but a real debate, happening in present-day Berlin.

As Germany’s foreign policy establishment becomes increasingly convinced that Donald Trump’s aggressive rhetoric toward Berlin and NATO represents a seminal shift in transatlantic relations, some are daring to think the unthinkable.

“Do We Need the Bomb?” read the front page headline in Welt am Sonntag, one of the country’s largest Sunday newspapers.


Read the rest here ... http://www...donald-trump-defense-spending/
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Sat Aug 04 08:34:03

I don't think so.

murder
Member
Sat Aug 04 08:40:18
And the answer is yes, the Germans do need nukes.

1. NATO is imploding.

2. Trump is a Russian puppet.

3. The UK (or whatever remains of it) leaving the EU.

4. The French can't really be relied on to look after anyone but themselves.

5. It's the only deterrent the Russians understand.

murder
Member
Sat Aug 04 08:41:18

"I don't think so."

They absolutely do. And so does Japan, so they can finally kick us out.

smart dude
Member
Sat Aug 04 08:46:30
If shithole countries like Pakistan and North Korea can have the nuke, I don't see why Germany shouldn't.
Seb
Member
Sat Aug 04 09:31:59
I think they should fix their conventional, intelligence and cyber forces before nukes.

Russian doctrine is such that it is very unlikely in the event of a conflict that the target state will have the political cohesion to use their nukes.
Dukhat
Member
Sat Aug 04 09:34:27
1) Nato is not imploding. Trump is one person. If push came to shove, a secret service agent or many other patriotic people would put a bullet in Trump's skull if he threatened national security.

2) Yes. But more likely he is compromised and is doing his best to say what Putin wants to hear without doing too much of what Russia wants because he has precious little political capital as is.

3) But they aren't leaving Nato.

4) True.

5) Russia has to go through Poland and the old Warsaw countries first. It would escalate things immediately. This is not the old USSR that had a massive numerical advantage and a totalitarian system. Russia has a population of 144 million and has a demographic crunch which requires an extremely long 2-year mandatory draft for young men in order to maintain their military. It also has a shitty metro-based economy.

Putin invades and annoys shitty countries to wag the dog and keep his population of geriatric retards occupied with thoughts of patriotism and the good old days when the USSR was a super power.

So no, Germany does not need nukes.
Daemon
Member
Sat Aug 04 09:49:41
Nukes are expensive, that's how we could fulfil our 2% of GDP promise^^

Rugian
Member
Sat Aug 04 09:51:08
Yeah, no. The day those Nazi fucks try and get their hands on nukes is the day we should decide to go for the hat trick.
murder
Member
Sat Aug 04 10:23:30

"Nato is not imploding. Trump is one person. If push came to shove, a secret service agent or many other patriotic people would put a bullet in Trump's skull if he threatened national security."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

There's a Russian agent in the White House with our nuclear launch codes, and you're fantasizing about anyone doing anything to stop him "if" he threatened our national security.

Not only isn't anyone putting anything in his head, people are running interference for him.

And Poland is a speed bump.


murder
Member
Sat Aug 04 10:26:24

"Nukes are expensive, that's how we could fulfil our 2% of GDP promise^^"

That would do the trick, and you could tell us to fuck off forever.

murder
Member
Sat Aug 04 10:27:31

"Yeah, no. The day those Nazi fucks try and get their hands on nukes is the day we should decide to go for the hat trick."

You mean their Nazis, and not ours, right?

smart dude
Member
Sat Aug 04 10:58:05
"I think they should fix their conventional, intelligence and cyber forces before nukes."

I get the latter two, but why the first? Why focus on conventional weapons, which in practice are far more destructive to human life? Why build a bunch of guns and shit? Tanks and jet fighters? Why?
Pillz
Member
Sat Aug 04 12:11:31
Murder must also agree Iran needs the bomb
Seb
Member
Sat Aug 04 13:14:04
Smart dude:

Because with out conventional capability, if your cyber and intelligence is a threat or obstacle, ultimately a country that has all three can blow up your current we and intelligence capability in the thinliest of veiled proxy terror attack and theres nothing at all you can do about it. That's the trite answer.

But if you know you'd lose a conventional war without imposing huge costs on the other side, you will be very very cautious about using other methods for fear of provoking a response.

Politically, they'll have no confidence to use cyber and intelligence if the core conventional capability is weak.
murder
Member
Sat Aug 04 13:41:20

"Murder must also agree Iran needs the bomb"

Germany isn't Iran. But just the same, I am unconcerned about Iran acquiring nukes. And if they chose to test them in Israel, all the better.

Hot Rod
Revved Up
Sat Aug 04 19:08:01

sd - If shithole countries like Pakistan and North Korea can have the nuke, I don't see why Germany shouldn't.


You are the only one in the Western World that thinks Pakistan and North Korea should have nukes.

Of course, there is a chance the rest of the liberals might agree with you, but I don't want to speak for them.

Nekran
Member
Sun Aug 05 02:31:24
Countries like Pakistan, NK and Iran definitely need them the most.

We may not want them to have them, but from their pov it is the best thing they can get. The West's past dealings with nations in regards to acquiring nukes is proof that getting them is by far the best idea.
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