Utopia Talk / Politics / Alt Right Cries Wolf Once Too Many Times

Dukhat Member	Tue Aug 07 19:57:31 http://www...k-times-tweets-backlash-racism "The New York Times announced this week that tech journalist Sarah Jeong will join its editorial board — and the ensuing outcry from right-wing Twitter was both swift and familiar. Jeong is a venerated tech culture journalist with a broad range of expertise, known for everything from authoring a book on systemic online harassment to reporting on major internet case law. (She’s currently a senior writer at Vox’s sister site The Verge, which she’ll be departing for the Times.) She’s also an outspoken progressive and feminist, making her an obvious target for the right-wing internet mobs that have been especially active of late, launching organized smear campaigns against left-leaning celebrities by weaponizing their old jokes and tweets. ... As I recently discussed on Vox’s daily podcast Today, Explained, the alt-right has codified a systemic method of deep-diving into perceived enemies’ past and decontextualizing their online interactions, with the goal of demonizing them through sustained campaigns of harassment and very loud virtual yelling. It’s a simultaneously diabolical and simple strategy: greatly exaggerate and feign outrage over your so-called foe’s behavior while removing, distorting, or ignoring the context surrounding it. This approach, which is rooted in the earliest days of the Gamergate movement, has since successfully been used to target everyone from members of the media to actual gaming employees who’ve lost their jobs after Gamergaters brought their out-of-context tweets to their employers’ attentions and demanded they be punished. It was this method that ultimately led to Disney firing Gunn after his detractors dredged up a litany of tweets, some of them a decade old, in which he made jokes about child sexual abuse. They began circulating screenshots of the tweets curated to look as if Gunn wrote about little else; then they feigned uproar over the fact that anyone so terrible could be allowed to keep his job, and called for his termination. To the average reasonable person viewing the situation with context, it’s easy to understand that Gunn is not a pedophile, and that the jokes were just jokes — not particularly funny ones, but jokes nonetheless. And for his part, Gunn has been open about his growth away from that kind of shock humor, stating that “I am very, very different than I was a few years ago; today I try to root my work in love and connection and less in anger. My days saying something just because it’s shocking and trying to get a reaction are over.” Yet the outrage centered on his old tweets rested on an assumption that Gunn and his jokes were immoral. The glimmer of hope in this story is that the alt-right’s success in targeting Gunn, who stood at the helm of a multibillion-dollar franchise with Guardians of the Galaxy, might have ultimately backfired. Gunn’s firing, the factors surrounding it, and the Guardians cast’s striking statement of support asking Disney to rehire him have all drawn international media attention. The result is that the increased visibility about what the alt-right is doing, and how disingenuous its motivations are, has made its methods more widely known and transparent than ever. ... It’s a simultaneously diabolical and simple strategy: greatly exaggerate and feign outrage over your so-called foe’s behavior while removing, distorting, or ignoring the context surrounding it By contrast, Jeong’s tweets were, at best, mean to some white people, and were written in a context reasonably understood to be a sarcastic response to people who were perpetually harassing her on the basis of her gender and race. The alt-right often works very hard to obfuscate these distinctions, but the Times’s decision to stand by Jeong — and to drop Norton once her use of harmful slurs came to light — shows that they still matter. _______________________________________________ B-b-b-but muh "white racism!" I'm sure retards like Nimatzo ate it up though. It's easy to believe what you are predisposed to believe anyways.
werewolf dictator Member	Tue Aug 07 20:26:07 copy/paste from “Gender Wars S2E02” i don’t at all believe sarah jeong’s narrative that she faced a “torrent” of online abuse and then adopted the rhetoric of her “frequent” harassers.. she cites *two* racist tweets at her sep/oct 2014.. which is after much of her controversial tweeting occurred.. paramater and likely keyword searches [such as ‘to:sarahjeong “asians”’] seem to turn up essentially nothing hostile directed at her [other than the two cited tweets.. and meaning prior to at least 2015].. one day in 2014 someone called her a feminist “bitch” along with “racist punk”.. but again not before jeong’s online behavior gave plenty of reason to think so.. i haven’t seen her defenders circulating any more evidence of this original “torrent” of “frequent” harassment either [besides the two sep/oct 2014 tweets].. and her defenders are obviously digging through old tweets for their case.. and not just antis/skeptics jeong’s racist trolling posts arent replies @ accounts.. which isnt helping believability also.. im not finding evidence leftist lebanese-american journalist rania khalek called down “dogpile” in 2014 [or said anything negative that year at all].. as jeong accused her in 2016 [and was in turn called “pathological liar”] http://twitter.com/RaniaKhalek/status/735603475392933889
werewolf dictator Member	Tue Aug 07 20:35:38 “sarcastic response to people who were perpetually harassing her” funny how vox has lots of phrases hyperlinking evidence of irrelevant crap.. but no link here to support official nyt/jeong defense
Rugian Member	Tue Aug 07 20:54:40 I dare Dukhat to find one, even one, instance where a person in both mainstream circles and the public eye was caught stating "cancel black people" in any context whatsoever and was allowed to keep their job. Find us one, Dukhat. And by the way, Vox makes Fox look like reputable reporting by comparison, so you really discredit yourself the second that name appears in any post of yours. TL;DR Dukhat is a moron, like always.
kargen Member	Tue Aug 07 21:08:32 Digging through tweets or any other online messages that they can find has been a go to weapon across the spectrum for a long time now. Someone disagrees with you instead of presenting your case just discredit them any way you can. Isn't just an alt-right thing.
obaminated Member	Tue Aug 07 21:11:45 cuckhat's battleship just got sunk.
werewolf dictator Member	Tue Aug 07 21:14:37 some of her tweets on men [mostly ignored by media] http://twitter.com/SoSportsNation/status/1025367980169945089
werewolf dictator Member	Tue Aug 07 21:16:17 but i’m sure those views of men had nothing to do with her doubling down on support of uva rape hoax story after rolling stone apologized http://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/540953791713902592
Dukhat Member	Tue Aug 07 21:48:34 So just a bunch of out-of-context tweets. Yay.
hood Member	Tue Aug 07 21:51:25 Out of context tweets that would get just about anyone fired, regardless of context, were it not about white/men.
Forwyn Member	Tue Aug 07 21:56:32 Yeah, substitute "white" for "black", "latino", "asian", "Jewish", etc etc etc, no one is digging into your context, or gives a shit that you were trolled.
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 08 08:40:38 Is there a reason why Jews burn up when the sun hits them? The goblins really should stay underground in the sewers where they belong.
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 08 08:41:13 I really get off on making fun of old black men.
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 08 08:43:08 Dumbass fucking black people barking their opinions all over the internet and marking the place up like dogs.
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 08 08:44:13 I dare you to go on Wikipedia and find things Muslims can honestly take credit for. It's really hard.
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 08 08:45:24 I realize why I can't watch schindlers list. The premise is "Jews being miserable".
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 08 08:46:16 It must be so boring being a mexican.
Aeros Member	Wed Aug 08 08:47:32 #canceljews
Y2A Member	Wed Aug 08 20:31:07 It's pretty clear that the posts were derogatory and needlessly racially divisive. It's also clear that the majority of this board's posters who post non stop "guess the race", "chimpcago", " dindu" type posts are nothing but full of shit hypocrites.
Jewgle Member	Wed Aug 08 21:04:57 Race only matters when its against whites.
hood Member	Wed Aug 08 21:16:24 Literally never seen chimpcago uttered here. There's also nothing hypocritical about posting racist stuff on a backwater forum instead of Twitter because you recognize posting it on Twitter would have disasterous consequences on your life, and then expecting racist stuff on Twitter to have a disasterous consequence on another person's life. That's quite consistent.
Dukhat Member	Wed Aug 08 21:50:42 Cancelwhitepeople is pretty funny. I don't even know what that means or what cancelblackpeople means. Is it a bad television sitcom that's been going on too long? What's going on? I believe she was engaging with irony with edgelords until there is more proof than breitbart citations. Saying the n-word got papa john canned because that word has been used for centuries to denigrate black people by white oppressors. Cancelling white people and all that other shit is funny new stuff meant to trigger white dudes. Looked like it worked. Still think people shouldn't take stuff online that seriously either way unless they have a pattern of behavior.
obaminated Member	Wed Aug 08 21:51:36 It amuses me that the left claims one is "outspoken" when they say overly offensive things about men/whites. It also amuses me that wimps like cuckhat will defend them because they are just that pathetic.
murder Member	Wed Aug 08 22:34:46 "It amuses me that the left claims one is "outspoken" when they say overly offensive things about men/whites." I know! White men have it so rough! For context, here's a brief history of the United States: 1. The United States is founded. 2. Everyone but white males were treated like crap and denied citizenship and full rights. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63. Some of the crapped on people were grant a few rights and treated a tiny little less like crap. . . . . . . . . . . 131. A few more of the crapped upon were granted a few more rights while still retaining second class status. . . . . . . . . . . 212. Most of the crapped upon are granted full rights ... mostly ... in some places ... as long as they don't get too uppity. . . . . . . . . . . 240. A black man is elected President, gay rights are mostly recognized ... and white men lose their shit and start trying to claw all the advancements back. 241. Privileged yet still aggrieved white men elect the dumbest, most racists, least qualified, misogynist, cartoon character they can find, President. So when people express the desire to #CancelWhitePeople ... it's not without cause.
Canadian Member	Wed Aug 08 22:44:42 Is she racist? Sure. Do I give a shit? No, not really.
murder Member	Wed Aug 08 23:06:27 She may or may not be racist. It's hard to tell because some of the evidence presented is so flimsy, and in some cases evidence of nothing at all. It's also hard to take seriously when vile people feign outrage at those types of comments.
hood Member	Wed Aug 08 23:07:44 "So when people express the desire to #CancelWhitePeople ... it's not without cause." Yeah, because people rag on -insert a group here- with no examples of shittiness!
murder Member	Wed Aug 08 23:12:58 Even if all those groups were the worst ... they didn't have the power to wreck everyone else's lives. White men did. And they used it. And they are still using it.
hood Member	Wed Aug 08 23:28:23 Are you referring to the election (in which case we should be blaming the elderly more than white men), or history? If you're arguing history, well you should check yourself into a morgue. If you're arguing the election, you should reassess your blamecasting and direct it to the most significant group (old people).
Dukhat Member	Wed Aug 08 23:35:30 if you separate by race and gender, white men are most responsible for the retard in office. Hell, even among the young, a majority of white male millenials voted for Trump. #cancelwhitemen
hood Member	Wed Aug 08 23:49:45 Methinks you're forgetting the white women, who also trended strongly for trump, and were a higher percentage of the voting population.
Forwyn Member	Thu Aug 09 00:11:41 "Even if all those groups were the worst ... they didn't have the power to wreck everyone else's lives. White men did. And they used it. And they are still using it." Boohoo. For every African sitting in a hut whining about colonialism, there are two Asians modernizing their nations with Western technologies, and improving upon it.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Aug 09 01:56:06 >>if you separate by race and gender, white men are most responsible for the retard in office.<< Yes if we look at the things murder thinks is relevant, he wins!
Dukhat Member	Thu Aug 09 02:07:05 Actually to be honest, I agree with Hood and Aeros. They've been progressive their whole lives (I think) and don't deserve to face discrimination or treated with racism. But on the other hand, her "racism" is over the top and meant to trigger people like Rugian. The context of what she's saying is that what she says almost never gets said ever because white people (more specifically white men) are by and far the majority and dominate the power structure of the West. And the cases of racism against blacks and minorities are only maybe dealt with if you are at a college campus or in a progressive tech company. 99.99% of the time, it gets swept under the rug or ignored and the minority has to face the emasculation of the white majority and deal with the fact that their lot will always be worse than a white person with the exact same skillset and credentials. So it is ironic that white guys get so triggered. No white person has ever faced actual discrimination where their economic prospects are lowered because of social justice warriors. They have to reach and to find examples and use retards like James Damore as their smoking gun (spoiler: he's nothing of the sort). Meanwhile millions if not tens of millions occur every day where minorities and people are color don't get rewarded for the same work as a white male. So I think this girl is a retard for using the same strategy as white supremacist gamers gate edge lords. But I also think the white guys triggered by her are ridiculous too. Oh no, a skinny little lesbian asian girl journalist is really threatening your way of life. Give me a break.
Dukhat Member	Thu Aug 09 02:07:31 emasculation by the white majority*
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Aug 09 02:56:19 Pffft yea like what power does a journalist at a major new paper have!? How many racist asian dish washers does the public care about, dickbrains?
Average Ameriacn Member	Thu Aug 09 03:52:55 He is still our enemy: http://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1025055504341651456 Edward Snowden@Snowden Almost nobody among those trolling @NYTopinion's new hires seem to have actually read their writing, beyond sarcastic tweets. @Sarahjeong's articles aren't just insightful, they're often important.
hood Member	Thu Aug 09 07:13:15 "The context of what she's saying is that what she says almost never gets said ever because white people (more specifically white men) are by and far the majority and dominate the power structure of the West." Maybe not in public, but don't fool yourself into thinking that there isn't plenty of hate tossed at white dudes in less public or wholly private venues. Perhaps you haven't seen it from your vantage? I have. People talking about white dudes (straight ones, for some reason, as if that matters) with all the contempt of a member of the KKK during a lynching. This shit absolutely exists. "No white person has ever faced actual discrimination where their economic prospects are lowered because of social justice warriors." I was passed over for a potential job because the other candidate (both trial hires) was female. Strangely, all of the potential coworkers were female as well. I was clearly the superior choice (evidenced by my eventual hiring about a year later and the other candidate getting forcibly removed). I'd say the better part of 12 months is definitely an economic impact. And if we want to go with plain old discrimination, well let's just say that all the clear antisemitism on this board isn't unique. It happens more often than you'd realize. Something like #notallwhitemen? Since hash tags are all the rage?
Dukhat Member	Thu Aug 09 07:16:54 His argument is mainly the same as the one from Vox: given the context of Sarah Jeong's journalism which far surpasses her tweets in length and readership; the tweets were deemed sarcastic. All these issues have been addressed by VOX anyways. Werewolf seems to know more than he does quite contrary from his normal insane rantings because Jeong has been such a focal point of right-wing media and the alt-right for a while now. He has all his Breitbart talking points lined up.
Dukhat Member	Thu Aug 09 07:38:50 "This shit absolutely exists." Yeah, but mostly in a completely helpless and meaningless way. Being disliked by a group of hecklers at a Kanye concert is completely different from being disliked by a board room. And board rooms are more likely to be white, male, and discriminate against non-white-males than vice versa. "I was clearly the superior choice (evidenced by my eventual hiring about a year later and the other candidate getting forcibly removed). I'd say the better part of 12 months is definitely an economic impact." At least we (including Jeong) probably agree on the solution that there needs to be a bit more transparency on highers, better laws on the books to protect against discrimination, and stronger enforcement of non-discrimination in the workplace But lawsuits require high standards of evidence which means most of the time you're left helpless anyways and have to suck it up. In which case it's simply a numbers game when figuring out how much discrimination you ahve to put up with. How likely is it for a white guy to face discrimination in the workplace and be in a situation where he is the out-group? Your case of discrimination, while bad as any other employment situation, is just less likely to happen to you than a minority and far less likely to happen in a systematic way. It doesn't mean it doesn't suck any less but many minorities deal with far worse and have far less strategies to deal with it. Sadly the world is tribalism. I believe she is being sarcastic because I trust Vox and the Nytimes and their cited arguments versus the far-right. And also people shouldn't be fired for out-of-context tweets anyways. Even Papa John's. The only reason he stepped down was because the stock price tanked. But he got to be in a position where stepping down from his position made him more millions of dollars than staying in his CEO position (since he clearly owns many shares of his own company). What a special snowflake.
hood Member	Thu Aug 09 08:21:54 "I believe she is being sarcastic because I trust Vox and the Nytimes and their cited arguments versus the far-right." Context is irrelevant. I know, sounds ridiculous, but that is the standard we have created as a society. When you say awful things, context doesn't matter. She clearly says awful things. Why she said it shouldn't matter. She should receive punishment. That is the consistent platform. To not fire her like all the rest of the people punished for their public actions, regardless of context, is highly hypocritical. To defend this woman now, but call for the heads of all the other people who weren't as lucky to be granted a consideration of context, is highly hypocritical. If we hadn't had plenty of precedent wherein non-work incidents (Ray rice, Boston bomber Halloween girl, papa John as you brought up, Price from guildwars [but that was somewhat work related], countless more) caused problems for employment, then yeah, who cares about what she said? That isn't the world we live in. And you can be damn sure that the next person to have their personal life displayed for all will be punished by their employers. "How likely is it for a white guy to face discrimination in the workplace and be in a situation where he is the out-group?" So it's acceptable to be openly racist as long as you choose a group that's well off? So I guess Northeast Asians are free game? Pretty much anyone with an ancestry from China up can be treated like shit because they're successful anyway? Jewish people can be openly harassed because we own the world whether you like us or don't? Yeah, no.
Rugian Member	Thu Aug 09 08:29:57 "And board rooms are more likely to be white, male, and discriminate against non-white-males than vice versa." December 6, 2017, 11:15 AM EST Women and people of color were picked for a majority of open S&P 500 board seats this year for the first time, due in part to pressure from investors to improve gender and racial disparities. http://www...new-board-seats-for-first-time
Nekran Member	Thu Aug 09 08:36:48 That backs up the quote then. It only expresses that things are starting to change a little bit.
Rugian Member	Thu Aug 09 08:45:03 The point is that they are changing, that things are gradually getting better. If Dukhat's claims about a self-perpetuating system of white supremacy were accurate, that wouldn't be happening.
Dukhat Member	Thu Aug 09 09:09:06 "Even with the gains, the low rate of turnover on corporate boards makes progress slow. Fewer than one seat on each S&P 500 board, on average, changed hands last year. With so few openings, women overall crept up to 22 percent from 21 percent of board representation in 2016 and minority directors rose to 17 percent from 16 percent, Spencer Stuart said. The percentage of Hispanic directors fell to 4.3 percent this year from 4.6 percent last year as black and Asian percentages rose slightly." Boards require majorities to enact policy anyways. So if you can get a twofer of a minority woman, that's more tokenism as the white male majority can still get everything they want. Easy peasy.
Dukhat Member	Thu Aug 09 09:09:22 That quote is from Rugian's link.
hood Member	Thu Aug 09 09:24:44 "Even with the gains, the low rate of turnover on corporate boards makes progress slow." This has been my point for a long time. People bitching about the wage gap, about underrepresentation, are just wagging tails to burn off excess energy. Society has made the shift to people being generally equal. However, because it's remarkably stupid to just wholesale fire leadership across the country (and would pretty illegal) to make room for minorites, you're going to have to just watch trends for 15-20 years as incumbent leadership are naturally attritioned. Then, filling new positions fairly (~50% gender ratio, representation of minorities, etc) will eventually fill up as needed. According to the last census, we're about 77% white (or 23% minority). So sitting at 17% minority representation is almost 3/4 of the way there. Women are lagging behind minority representation, but they're nearly half way there.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Aug 09 09:57:00 Movements with a struggle at their core very soon need the struggle more than the struggle needs them. Gotta keep the fire of the revolution alive.
murder Member	Thu Aug 09 09:58:14 "I was passed over for a potential job because ..." History starts now.
obaminated Member	Thu Aug 09 10:35:30 "2. Everyone but white males were treated like crap and denied citizenship and full rights. " This is blatantly incorrect and illustrates how little you know about history. Poor whites did not do well in the early united states. some of the worst slave owners (who you are implying about) were black. If you just wanna bitch about something that happened 250 years ago, then why even bother talk to you? You are arguing about shit no one alive dealt with.
mexicantardnado Member	Thu Aug 09 10:38:00 Duuuur the very duuuur small duuur percentage I'm duuuur referencing duuuuuur completely duuuur cancels out duuuur the disproportionate and disenfranchised population duuuur that I duuur want to duuuur ignore duuuur because duuur I kno duuur history duuuuur
Canadian Member	Thu Aug 09 18:22:37 "murder Member Wed Aug 08 23:06:27 She may or may not be racist. It's hard to tell because some of the evidence presented is so flimsy, and in some cases evidence of nothing at all. " - Except that there are dozens upon dozens of tweets - some are fairly sarcastic and should not be taken seriously, but others such as the "white men are bullshit", or comparing white people's opinions to dogs urinating on fire hydrants, are overtly racist. An equivalent would be someone tweeting how she likes her dog cooked, because she's of Korean ancestry.
murder Member	Thu Aug 09 19:18:57 "but others such as the "white men are bullshit"" Is proof of nothing. What was that comment in reference to?
Rugian Member	Thu Aug 09 19:20:55 "What was that comment in reference to?" A comment you don't get to ask in today's context-less outrage culture. Next.
Canadian Member	Thu Aug 09 20:52:07 @murder: The individual quote "white men are bullshit", aside from being irrational, is not particularly damning. When you take in the entirety of her tweets however, they indicate a pattern of prejudice towards caucasians and men that is not rationally grounded.
kargen Member	Fri Aug 10 02:58:40 "Methinks you're forgetting the white women, who also trended strongly for trump, and were a higher percentage of the voting population." According to Hillary they voted for Trump because their husbands told them to.
hood Member	Fri Aug 10 07:15:07 Do I look like I care what Hillary says?
obaminated Member	Fri Aug 10 09:42:32 I don't think anyone here has any idea how you look.
mexicantardnado Member	Fri Aug 10 09:55:40 Duuuuur I don't duuuur understand duuuur figurative duuuur speech.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 11 04:25:29 Muur muuur I don’t muuur understand muur jokes that duuur take something literally gargle gargle *death noises*.
murder Member	Sat Aug 11 17:23:37 Ummm ... nope. :o)
	show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message: