Utopia Talk - Politics - She's not lesbian enough

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Utopia Talk / Politics / She's not lesbian enough

Victim
Member Mon Aug 13 14:11:48
#RecastBatwoman

http://amp...atwoman-casting-prompted-celeb

Ruby Rose’s Batwoman casting prompted celebration, but the backlash tells us a lot about our era

What a difference a few days make. Last week, we were cheering the decision to cast Ruby Rose as Batwoman, the first openly gay superhero to headline a TV series. Here was a small nugget of good news in a world that increasingly makes Gotham City look like Green Gables. As Rose, who is a gender-fluid lesbian, put it: “This is something I would have died to have seen on TV when I was a young member of the LGBT community who never felt represented on TV and felt alone and different.”

Fast-forward a few predictable social-media “discussions” and Rose has left Twitter amid the kind of backlash Batman would never face. According to the #RecastBatwoman hashtag, which Wide Awoke advises you not to bother checking out, Rose is the wrong choice because she is not Jewish, not a good enough actor, not lesbian enough … and on the misogyny-posing-as-fan-criticism goes. “When women and minorities join forces we are unstoppable,” Rose wrote before deleting her account. “When we tear each other down, it’s much more hurtful than from any group.”

Where to start? With the fact that measuring someone’s gayness according to how femme, butch or gender-fluid they might be is about as offensive as taking it upon yourself to decide whether a woman should wear, say, a burqa? No, screw it, let’s put on our cape and wade in to the cesspit of what constitutes true representation. “True” representation of the most literal, unattainable kind would mean a lesbian Jewish actor playing a lesbian Jewish superhero. But we don’t live in a world where there is an infinite pool of actors representing every minority under the sun. That doesn’t mean that being LGBT trumps being Jewish. It just means that when a character holds many different identities, attempting to cast one of them as accurately as possible is a good thing.

Hollywood continues to be a deeply conservative place where coming out doesn’t feel like an option. And the job of actors is, after all, to act. Which is why a gay actor can play a straight romantic lead, although as Rupert Everett has been saying for decades, Hollywood appears not to have received that memo. The problem is it never cuts both ways. Representation of LGBT+ people is still dire, and on the rare occasions when we do see ourselves reflected on screen, the characters are inevitably played by straight actors. Straight can play gay. Gay can play … well, who exactly? This is why people are justifiably angry about Disney casting Jack Whitehall, who is straight, to play its first openly gay character in The Jungle Cruise.

And it is why Rose being cast as Batwoman is a watershed moment. A lesbian playing a lesbian is not a prerequisite, but it is demonstrating some kickass representation when it happens. Which was never … until now.

smart dude
Member Mon Aug 13 14:26:27
I hope Seb gets here soon to Sebsplain why Rose shouldn't be cast in this role. Otherwise I won't know what to think.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Aug 13 14:35:08

Well, statistically she is different.

Nothing wrong with that, just a fact.

kargen
Member Mon Aug 13 14:40:49
"Hollywood continues to be a deeply conservative place..."

Conservative compared to what?

smart dude
Member Mon Aug 13 14:43:59
Compared to Karl Marx, apparently.

hood
Member Mon Aug 13 14:45:55
Conservative in terms of risk taking.

obaminated
Member Mon Aug 13 16:07:32
link dont work

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Mon Aug 13 16:22:58
Smart dude
You read my mind :,)

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 02:28:54
She should be cast. This is ridiculous.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 02:30:55
Nim, smart dude:

Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 02:30:55
Nim, smart dude:

Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 02:30:55
Nim, smart dude:

Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 02:30:55
Nim, smart dude:

Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 02:30:55
Nim, smart dude:

Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 02:30:55
Nim, smart dude:

Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 02:30:55
Nim, smart dude:

Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 02:31:21
Ok, that's weird.

Cherub Cow
Member Tue Aug 14 03:12:32
"This is why people are justifiably angry about Disney casting Jack Whitehall, who is straight, to play its first openly gay character in The Jungle Cruise."

lol... so stupid. "justifiably" .. no... This author was somewhat in the right direction with "we don’t live in a world where there is an infinite pool of actors representing every minority under the sun", yet the author falls short by not realizing that casting a straight person to play a gay person should not be at all problematic. It is *acting* — pretense. Some people are better at pretense than others. The casting department can't just cast the best gay actor to play their particular gay character, they have to cast the person who best pretends to be the gay character (all other things being equal, like who's an "it" person in Hollywood at that moment or which producer wants their kid in the movie) — that may or may not mean having cast a gay person.

A good example is "The 15:17 to Paris". Clint Eastwood hired many of the actual people who were involved in that real event. Sounds like a good idea? It's fucking not. None of them can act. They're all visibly camera-aware, so with a camera in front of them they don't even play *themselves* well. Some people are better-trained and/or better-able to emote in front of a camera — better than people who fit the real-life intersectionality check boxes. Disregarding this can have a funny effect: cast a shitty actor to play a part and that part does not communicate well to audiences. So a good actor like Jared Leto can make people fall in love with "Dallas Buyers Club"'s Rayon and thus people become amply sympathetic to a struggle experienced by gay and trans people, but cast a shitty actor who happens to fit the "gay"/"trans" check box in real life and suddenly audiences hate that person and everything they stood for in the movie. "[Oops! But the actor was *actually* gay, so it shouldn't have mattered if they sucked?]" No.. sorry.. doesn't work like that.

So as for Ruby Rose, I'd be more disappointed that she was cast despite her sucking as an actress than with any real life stuff. Like I don't care if she's gay IRL — it doesn't matter. She's still goofy-looking and only has one mode of acting: a kind of pissed off and self-important scene-wrecker. Then again, for a DC TV series like "Batwoman", that might be a good casting fit (i.e., all of those Arrowverse CW shows suck). If they cast a *good* actor I might be outraged, because no good actor should end up on the fucking CW.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Tue Aug 14 05:35:03
”It is *acting* — pretense. Some people are better at pretense than others.”

Heh, you and your crazy theories, Cherub.

show deleted posts

Victim Member	Mon Aug 13 14:11:48 #RecastBatwoman http://amp...atwoman-casting-prompted-celeb Ruby Rose’s Batwoman casting prompted celebration, but the backlash tells us a lot about our era What a difference a few days make. Last week, we were cheering the decision to cast Ruby Rose as Batwoman, the first openly gay superhero to headline a TV series. Here was a small nugget of good news in a world that increasingly makes Gotham City look like Green Gables. As Rose, who is a gender-fluid lesbian, put it: “This is something I would have died to have seen on TV when I was a young member of the LGBT community who never felt represented on TV and felt alone and different.” Fast-forward a few predictable social-media “discussions” and Rose has left Twitter amid the kind of backlash Batman would never face. According to the #RecastBatwoman hashtag, which Wide Awoke advises you not to bother checking out, Rose is the wrong choice because she is not Jewish, not a good enough actor, not lesbian enough … and on the misogyny-posing-as-fan-criticism goes. “When women and minorities join forces we are unstoppable,” Rose wrote before deleting her account. “When we tear each other down, it’s much more hurtful than from any group.” Where to start? With the fact that measuring someone’s gayness according to how femme, butch or gender-fluid they might be is about as offensive as taking it upon yourself to decide whether a woman should wear, say, a burqa? No, screw it, let’s put on our cape and wade in to the cesspit of what constitutes true representation. “True” representation of the most literal, unattainable kind would mean a lesbian Jewish actor playing a lesbian Jewish superhero. But we don’t live in a world where there is an infinite pool of actors representing every minority under the sun. That doesn’t mean that being LGBT trumps being Jewish. It just means that when a character holds many different identities, attempting to cast one of them as accurately as possible is a good thing. Hollywood continues to be a deeply conservative place where coming out doesn’t feel like an option. And the job of actors is, after all, to act. Which is why a gay actor can play a straight romantic lead, although as Rupert Everett has been saying for decades, Hollywood appears not to have received that memo. The problem is it never cuts both ways. Representation of LGBT+ people is still dire, and on the rare occasions when we do see ourselves reflected on screen, the characters are inevitably played by straight actors. Straight can play gay. Gay can play … well, who exactly? This is why people are justifiably angry about Disney casting Jack Whitehall, who is straight, to play its first openly gay character in The Jungle Cruise. And it is why Rose being cast as Batwoman is a watershed moment. A lesbian playing a lesbian is not a prerequisite, but it is demonstrating some kickass representation when it happens. Which was never … until now.
smart dude Member	Mon Aug 13 14:26:27 I hope Seb gets here soon to Sebsplain why Rose shouldn't be cast in this role. Otherwise I won't know what to think.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Aug 13 14:35:08 Well, statistically she is different. Nothing wrong with that, just a fact.
kargen Member	Mon Aug 13 14:40:49 "Hollywood continues to be a deeply conservative place..." Conservative compared to what?
smart dude Member	Mon Aug 13 14:43:59 Compared to Karl Marx, apparently.
hood Member	Mon Aug 13 14:45:55 Conservative in terms of risk taking.
obaminated Member	Mon Aug 13 16:07:32 link dont work
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Aug 13 16:22:58 Smart dude You read my mind :,)
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 02:28:54 She should be cast. This is ridiculous.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 02:30:55 Nim, smart dude: Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 02:30:55 Nim, smart dude: Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 02:30:55 Nim, smart dude: Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 02:30:55 Nim, smart dude: Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 02:30:55 Nim, smart dude: Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 02:30:55 Nim, smart dude: Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 02:30:55 Nim, smart dude: Yeah, but you are both pretty stupid to think I'd think that.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 02:31:21 Ok, that's weird.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Aug 14 03:12:32 "This is why people are justifiably angry about Disney casting Jack Whitehall, who is straight, to play its first openly gay character in The Jungle Cruise." lol... so stupid. "justifiably" .. no... This author was somewhat in the right direction with "we don’t live in a world where there is an infinite pool of actors representing every minority under the sun", yet the author falls short by not realizing that casting a straight person to play a gay person should not be at all problematic. It is acting — pretense. Some people are better at pretense than others. The casting department can't just cast the best gay actor to play their particular gay character, they have to cast the person who best pretends to be the gay character (all other things being equal, like who's an "it" person in Hollywood at that moment or which producer wants their kid in the movie) — that may or may not mean having cast a gay person. A good example is "The 15:17 to Paris". Clint Eastwood hired many of the actual people who were involved in that real event. Sounds like a good idea? It's fucking not. None of them can act. They're all visibly camera-aware, so with a camera in front of them they don't even play themselves well. Some people are better-trained and/or better-able to emote in front of a camera — better than people who fit the real-life intersectionality check boxes. Disregarding this can have a funny effect: cast a shitty actor to play a part and that part does not communicate well to audiences. So a good actor like Jared Leto can make people fall in love with "Dallas Buyers Club"'s Rayon and thus people become amply sympathetic to a struggle experienced by gay and trans people, but cast a shitty actor who happens to fit the "gay"/"trans" check box in real life and suddenly audiences hate that person and everything they stood for in the movie. "[Oops! But the actor was actually gay, so it shouldn't have mattered if they sucked?]" No.. sorry.. doesn't work like that. So as for Ruby Rose, I'd be more disappointed that she was cast despite her sucking as an actress than with any real life stuff. Like I don't care if she's gay IRL — it doesn't matter. She's still goofy-looking and only has one mode of acting: a kind of pissed off and self-important scene-wrecker. Then again, for a DC TV series like "Batwoman", that might be a good casting fit (i.e., all of those Arrowverse CW shows suck). If they cast a good actor I might be outraged, because no good actor should end up on the fucking CW.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Aug 14 05:35:03 ”It is acting — pretense. Some people are better at pretense than others.” Heh, you and your crazy theories, Cherub.
	show deleted posts

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