Utopia Talk - Politics - Half of refugees are mooches

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Half of refugees are mooches

Sam Adams
Member Mon Aug 13 23:33:12
The most common degree sought by sebs people is a high school diploma.

http://www...annual-report-to-congress-2016

jergul
large member Mon Aug 13 23:41:43
The most common degree for everyone is a high school diploma.

Dukhat
Member Tue Aug 14 00:06:01
Probably because they want to go to college and their previous degrees do not count in the US. A high school education isn't a prequisite for really any kind of job anymore. It's only a prerequisite for college.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 02:28:03
Sam:

I was going to say "no suit Sherlock, you think anyone in the US can validate a Syrian diploma?" But as jergul and dukhat already schooled you...

Sam Adams
Member Tue Aug 14 09:34:37
So importing people who have no education and drain resources is a good idea?

Lol look another allah ackbaring in london

Dukhat
Member Tue Aug 14 10:12:14
Sam's link was from a program created to help refugees gain job skills and be productive. And it has been shown time and time again that the immigrant population is a net positive: http://bud...n-on-the-united-states-economy

"Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth ... While natives bear some upfront costs for the provision of public services to immigrants and their families, the evidence suggests a net positive return on the investment over the long term."

******************

But let's cut the bullshit. Trump ran against illegal immigration. Steven Miller tried to impose a cap on legal immigration and got his ass handed to him. Sam is whining about refugees now who are LEGAL immigrants and he's whining we have a program to help train them and be productive ... the implication being we shouldn't train them which would be fucking retarded or accept any refugees at all.

Somehow even though Reagan and Dubya and basically America for all its history has been built on immigrants that were willing to work; a program designed to do exactly that triggers Sam.

Sam Adams
Member Tue Aug 14 11:15:18
Cuckhat confuses immigrants with refugees.

Loldumb.

Properly selective immigration can certainly be a good thing. Letting in hordes of scum is not.

murder
Member Tue Aug 14 11:48:59

"So importing people who have no education and drain resources is a good idea?"

They don't drain resources. They re-energize the economy.

Dukhat
Member Tue Aug 14 12:13:24
We never had properly selective immigration for most of our history (unless they were brown in which case they were enslaved or caps put on their immigration like the Chinese) which is how the country became infested with fat-ass Trump supporters.

Sam Adams
Member Tue Aug 14 13:50:07
"We never had properly selective immigration for most of our history"

Now its the robotics age and many unskilled bodies are not required.

Forwyn
Member Tue Aug 14 13:50:18
"Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth ..."

"They don't drain resources. They re-energize the economy."

rofl. It's always hilarious when leftists regurgitate propaganda from mega corps, then whine about wage stagnation in another conversation.

murder
Member Tue Aug 14 14:01:59

"It's always hilarious when leftists regurgitate propaganda from mega corps, then whine about wage stagnation in another conversation."

Immigrants and refugees don't cause wage stagnation ... "free trade" does. Putting American workers in direct competition with people that will do the same job for a dollar a day is what fucked workers in the US.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 14:29:57
Sam:

Qualification is not education.

If a fully qualified US surgeon turned up in the UK, he would not be considered fit to practice until he passed UK medical exams.

Seb
Member Tue Aug 14 14:30:50
Murder is a leftist now... lol.

murder
Member Tue Aug 14 14:46:46

Right up until I want to ban Islam and deport all the muslims. ;o)

I'm not a leftist or a rightist ... I'm an extremist.

And sometimes I'm an extremist centrist.

Forwyn
Member Tue Aug 14 14:48:43
'"free trade" does.'

Free movement of workers is one of the biggest facets of free trade.

In any case, the biggest contributor to the increase of international competition is a decrease in transportation costs.

Dukhat
Member Tue Aug 14 20:30:31
Wage stagnation is caused by the collapse in marginal productivity of the working class. Companies can pay you more ... as long as you actually produce more.

This collapse is due to:

1) Loss of collective bargaining due to Republicans destroying unions and outsourcing.

2) Loss of capital per person of which there are two main components:
a. Physical capital due to Republicans refusing to invest in infrastructure and instead throw away money towards deficit-based tax-cuts for the rich.
b. Human capital by decreasing money available for education

Immigration illegal or otherwise is not affecting your wages. I have never seen a white guy no matter how poor want to pick strawberries.

In fact, many better paying jobs depend on a larger number of lower-paying jobs to function as was in the article.

****

But nevermind to the cuckservative who has no use for statistics or any kind of scientific-method-based peer-reviewed research. What you feel in your gut is always right and Koch/Mercer-funded propaganda tells you everything you want to here as long as you keep supporting their puppet candidates.

Dukhat
Member Tue Aug 14 20:41:50
collapse of collective bargaining* and collapse of marginal productivity of the lowest-skilled jobs*

Forwyn
Member Tue Aug 14 21:55:56
"Wage stagnation is caused by the collapse in marginal productivity of the working class. ."

Lol. Productivity is at record highs.

There is, however, a glut in the supply of labor.

"1) Loss of collective bargaining due to Republicans destroying unions and outsourcing."

Can you point to a sector where this is relevant? The most commonly thought of blue-collar sectors, transportation and manufacturing, have competitive wages regardless of union status.

CDL wages continue to climb because of a shortage of qualified drivers, but this is a temporary anomaly.

"a. Physical capital due to Republicans refusing to invest in infrastructure and instead throw away money towards deficit-based tax-cuts for the rich."

Or throw it to shit like Cash for Clunkers, an automotive sector subsidy that almost immediately caused personal transportation costs to skyrocket.

"b. Human capital by decreasing money available for education"

US consistently ranks very highly in education spending. Some recent cuts to corralling retards is largely irrelevant.

"Immigration illegal or otherwise is not affecting your wages."

Mine? No. The guy who's now making $10/hr as a manufacturing temp when he would have made $20/hr doing the same ten years ago? Absolutely. Union shops, of course. And they don't mind bringing in cheap temp help as long as those with seniority are covered.

"I have never seen a white guy no matter how poor want to pick strawberries."

Not for below minimum wage from agri-mega corps. There are a few outlier cases where labor supply dropped and wages jumped into the double digits; these are few and far between. Much easier to pay seasonal immigrants cheap wages than to pay white guys $20, because yeah, unless the money is right, not many want a cheap job that's only gonna last a couple months.

"scientific-method-based peer-reviewed research."

Please find me some compelling research that Econ 101 suddenly doesn't apply to wages; and labor supply is irrelevant.

I'll wait.

Dukhat
Member Tue Aug 14 22:36:48
Most of Forwyn's bullshit is stuff Republicans always say when the economy is growing and they take credit for everything positive when we could be doing much better. Just because it's growing doesn't mean we couldn't be doing better.

"Lol. Productivity is at record highs."

And concentrated at the top.

"Can you point to a sector where this is relevant? The most commonly thought of blue-collar sectors, transportation and manufacturing, have competitive wages regardless of union status. "

Wages, because of inflation and loss of collectivization, are basically at their 1974 levels. And unionization helps those that aren't in unions as well. Wages at the state level are higher for all workers in industries with a higher % of unions.

"Or throw it to shit like Cash for Clunkers, an automotive sector subsidy that almost immediately caused personal transportation costs to skyrocket. "

Fucking kill yourself. Literally just repeated the Koch brother line which is 100% wrong.

Class for clunkers worked well. A big part of why the recession was bad was because normal people lost access to credit and delayed purchases of big-ticket items. Cash for clunkers is a CONSERVATIVE idea where you use incentives to achieve economic goals. It incentivized people to buy newer cars because it gave them extra incentives. Newer cars have better fuel mileage and lower maintenance cost.

You sound like one of those fucking retards that call in to radio shows recently to say they supported Trump repealing fuel standards because it made cars expensive up front. You couldn't be more ignorant and shortsighted.

And it's also a complete red herring. Everyone on both sides of the aisles have said already we need to update our infrastructure. But there are powerful lobbies like the shitty coal industry that want to keep us using old shit.

"US consistently ranks very highly in education spending. Some recent cuts to corralling retards is largely irrelevant."

It's been decreasing for years and we have a big problem with shitty for-profit institutions wasting our money like Trump University. Having a kleptocrat piece of shit like Betsy Devos refuse to regulate for-profit shitholes isn't helping the situation. As always, everything in America is top-heavy. Great schools ... if you can afford it.

Doesn't do much to help the fact that there are many critical skill gaps in the working class jobs that America uses immigration to try and patch up. Republicans might have a case if they increased education spending to replace immigrants with native-born people but it's always a race to the bottom with the Retardican party.

"Mine? No. The guy who's now making $10/hr as a manufacturing temp when he would have made $20/hr doing the same ten years ago? Absolutely. Union shops, of course. And they don't mind bringing in cheap temp help as long as those with seniority are covered. "

Addressed in the original link. On net, they are positive. Your example is retarded because if I couldn't hire an illegal for an ass-easy job; I'd be looking to outsource ASAP. Get skills quick or get left behind.

"Please find me some compelling research that Econ 101 suddenly doesn't apply to wages; and labor supply is irrelevant."

Your cartoony understanding of economics is premised on false assumptions. Labor is not all fungible. The most important of which is the ability to speak English which gives native-born workers a huge advantage over most immigrants for higher-paying jobs. Again, this is mostly addressed in the link.

I would actually cite my sources instead of just joining you in being a retard making declarative statements but there's no point. "muh science" means nothing to you. You've fallen down the rabbit hole of seeking sources and information that conform to what you already believe.

*********

And LOL at you anyways for calling yourself a libertarian and yet repeating breitbart talking points about illegal immigration. Classic libertarians want open borders.

Dukhat
Member Tue Aug 14 22:43:07
And nobody supports illegal immigration anyways. Treating them and refugees humanely isn't a fucking political issue. I'm conservative on the issue but the Republicans have no answers. They just demagogue. A fucking wasteful border wall won't change anything.

The solution is e-verify and economic incentives for employers to not use illegals but the establishment GOP is too business-friendly and the Trumpkin GOP elected a retard that never talks about real solutions; only his stupid wall and Gestapo tactics.

Forwyn
Member Tue Aug 14 23:24:10
"And concentrated at the top."

lolwut? Pay is increasingly concentrated at the top. Plenty of productivity growth represents unrealized wage growth in the bottom and middle.

"Wages, because of inflation...are basically at their 1974 levels.

Agreed. But little to be done there when every time inflation drops we get a new round of QE.

"And unionization helps those that aren't in unions as well."

Up until they don't. Spend a few months in a Teamster mafia shithole and you'll understand why those shops are packing up and moving out.

Unions are great when they aren't run by mobsters who happily exploit the lazy.

"Class for clunkers worked well."

LOL

"Burton Abrams and George Parsons of the University of Delaware evaluate the efficiency of the recently introduced 'Cash for Clunkers' program and conclude that the cost exceeds the benefit by approximately $2000 per vehicle."

http://www....6.8.1638/ev.2009.6.8.1638.xml

"The 2009 Cash for Clunkers program aimed to stimulate consumer spending in the new automobile industry, which experienced disproportionate reductions in demand and employment during the Great Recession. Exploiting program eligibility criteria in a regression discontinuity design, we show more than half of the subsidies went to households who would have purchased during the two-month program anyway; the rest accelerated sales by no more than eight months. Moreover, the program's fuel efficiency restrictions shifted purchases toward vehicles that cost on average $7,600 less. Thus, we estimate on net the $3 billion program reduced total new vehicle spending by $5 billion."

http://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.20150172

"It's been decreasing for years"

"And even with the decline in spending, the United States still spends more per student than most countries. The United States spent $11,319 per elementary school student in 2014, compared with the OECD average of $8,733, and $12,995 educating each high school student, compared with an average of $10,106 per student across the OECD."

http://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-09-18/while-rest-of-the-world-invests-more-in-education-the-us-spends-less

"Everyone on both sides of the aisles have said already we need to update our infrastructure. But there are powerful lobbies like the shitty coal industry that want to keep us using old shit."

Agreed. I can't wait to see either side stop talking and start doing.

"Doesn't do much to help the fact that there are many critical skill gaps in the working class jobs that America uses immigration to try and patch up. Republicans might have a case if they increased education spending to replace immigrants with native-born people but it's always a race to the bottom with the Retardican party."

Well, I disagree that the issue is funding, because the core education docket doesn't address the technical skills shortage, so increasing funding won't address it. Smart boards in social studies does fuck all, but that's at least classroom-focused, unlike the $50million football stadiums high schools like to increase millage to build.

"Your example is retarded because if I couldn't hire an illegal for an ass-easy job; I'd be looking to outsource ASAP. Get skills quick or get left behind."

I agree, a massive cultural shift is in order; prospective employees need to evolve past the "make it 20 for a pension" mindset if they want to make it in the current environment. Probably best to avoid union shops, in that case.

"The most important of which is the ability to speak English which gives native-born workers a huge advantage over most immigrants for higher-paying jobs."

Higher-paying being important here, especially in the service sector. But higher-wage employees weren't the ones that turned out for Trump, it was the lower and middle-wage workers whose wages have indeed stagnated, because speaking English and showing up on time aren't enough anymore, especially when the former isn't wholly important if it saves 50% or more in payroll. Clearly "Labor is not all fungible." is an irrelevant statement here, because all labor is fungible when it comes to cleaning toilets and picking strawberries, and we all know that an increase in supply without an equivalent increase in demand equates to a lower asking price.

"And LOL at you anyways for calling yourself a libertarian and yet repeating breitbart talking points about illegal immigration. Classic libertarians want open borders."

Blindly adhering to ideology based on a label is Hot Rod-esque. Muh NAP! Policy measure ideology should be based on a balance of aggregate societal good and minimizing negative externalities, especially governmental. Clearly societies benefit by taking a measured and selective approach to immigration. Naturally, status quo mega-corp studies will reject this conclusion. Let them all in, whenever they want.

"A fucking wasteful border wall won't change anything."

I agree. It's a wasteful populist measure that doesn't really do much. The screeching about it is a little humorous though; there are plenty more wasteful yearly expenditures exceeding the paltry $20b wall cost.

"The solution is e-verify and economic incentives for employers to not use illegals"

Much easier to just pierce the veil and start sending people to jail, but that takes balls, instead of a middle-road corporatist approach.

Forwyn
Member Tue Aug 14 23:24:58
"Treating them and refugees humanely"

Also, a lot less issue with refugees when you don't create refugee crises by arming jihadis.

Forwyn
Member Wed Aug 15 01:30:46
Speaking of inflation...

"Cost of living was up 2.9 percent from July 2017 to July 2018, the Labor Department reported Friday, an inflation rate that outstripped a 2.7 percent increase in wages over the same period. The average U.S. “real wage,” a federal measure of pay that takes inflation into account, fell to $10.76 an hour last month, 2 cents down from where it was a year ago."

http://www...lation/?utm_term=.241d146e4831

End the Fed

show deleted posts

Sam Adams Member	Mon Aug 13 23:33:12 The most common degree sought by sebs people is a high school diploma. http://www...annual-report-to-congress-2016
jergul large member	Mon Aug 13 23:41:43 The most common degree for everyone is a high school diploma.
Dukhat Member	Tue Aug 14 00:06:01 Probably because they want to go to college and their previous degrees do not count in the US. A high school education isn't a prequisite for really any kind of job anymore. It's only a prerequisite for college.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 02:28:03 Sam: I was going to say "no suit Sherlock, you think anyone in the US can validate a Syrian diploma?" But as jergul and dukhat already schooled you...
Sam Adams Member	Tue Aug 14 09:34:37 So importing people who have no education and drain resources is a good idea? Lol look another allah ackbaring in london
Dukhat Member	Tue Aug 14 10:12:14 Sam's link was from a program created to help refugees gain job skills and be productive. And it has been shown time and time again that the immigrant population is a net positive: http://bud...n-on-the-united-states-economy "Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth ... While natives bear some upfront costs for the provision of public services to immigrants and their families, the evidence suggests a net positive return on the investment over the long term." ****************** But let's cut the bullshit. Trump ran against illegal immigration. Steven Miller tried to impose a cap on legal immigration and got his ass handed to him. Sam is whining about refugees now who are LEGAL immigrants and he's whining we have a program to help train them and be productive ... the implication being we shouldn't train them which would be fucking retarded or accept any refugees at all. Somehow even though Reagan and Dubya and basically America for all its history has been built on immigrants that were willing to work; a program designed to do exactly that triggers Sam.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Aug 14 11:15:18 Cuckhat confuses immigrants with refugees. Loldumb. Properly selective immigration can certainly be a good thing. Letting in hordes of scum is not.
murder Member	Tue Aug 14 11:48:59 "So importing people who have no education and drain resources is a good idea?" They don't drain resources. They re-energize the economy.
Dukhat Member	Tue Aug 14 12:13:24 We never had properly selective immigration for most of our history (unless they were brown in which case they were enslaved or caps put on their immigration like the Chinese) which is how the country became infested with fat-ass Trump supporters.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Aug 14 13:50:07 "We never had properly selective immigration for most of our history" Now its the robotics age and many unskilled bodies are not required.
Forwyn Member	Tue Aug 14 13:50:18 "Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth ..." "They don't drain resources. They re-energize the economy." rofl. It's always hilarious when leftists regurgitate propaganda from mega corps, then whine about wage stagnation in another conversation.
murder Member	Tue Aug 14 14:01:59 "It's always hilarious when leftists regurgitate propaganda from mega corps, then whine about wage stagnation in another conversation." Immigrants and refugees don't cause wage stagnation ... "free trade" does. Putting American workers in direct competition with people that will do the same job for a dollar a day is what fucked workers in the US.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 14:29:57 Sam: Qualification is not education. If a fully qualified US surgeon turned up in the UK, he would not be considered fit to practice until he passed UK medical exams.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 14 14:30:50 Murder is a leftist now... lol.
murder Member	Tue Aug 14 14:46:46 Right up until I want to ban Islam and deport all the muslims. ;o) I'm not a leftist or a rightist ... I'm an extremist. And sometimes I'm an extremist centrist.
Forwyn Member	Tue Aug 14 14:48:43 '"free trade" does.' Free movement of workers is one of the biggest facets of free trade. In any case, the biggest contributor to the increase of international competition is a decrease in transportation costs.
Dukhat Member	Tue Aug 14 20:30:31 Wage stagnation is caused by the collapse in marginal productivity of the working class. Companies can pay you more ... as long as you actually produce more. This collapse is due to: 1) Loss of collective bargaining due to Republicans destroying unions and outsourcing. 2) Loss of capital per person of which there are two main components: a. Physical capital due to Republicans refusing to invest in infrastructure and instead throw away money towards deficit-based tax-cuts for the rich. b. Human capital by decreasing money available for education Immigration illegal or otherwise is not affecting your wages. I have never seen a white guy no matter how poor want to pick strawberries. In fact, many better paying jobs depend on a larger number of lower-paying jobs to function as was in the article. **** But nevermind to the cuckservative who has no use for statistics or any kind of scientific-method-based peer-reviewed research. What you feel in your gut is always right and Koch/Mercer-funded propaganda tells you everything you want to here as long as you keep supporting their puppet candidates.
Dukhat Member	Tue Aug 14 20:41:50 collapse of collective bargaining* and collapse of marginal productivity of the lowest-skilled jobs*
Forwyn Member	Tue Aug 14 21:55:56 "Wage stagnation is caused by the collapse in marginal productivity of the working class. ." Lol. Productivity is at record highs. There is, however, a glut in the supply of labor. "1) Loss of collective bargaining due to Republicans destroying unions and outsourcing." Can you point to a sector where this is relevant? The most commonly thought of blue-collar sectors, transportation and manufacturing, have competitive wages regardless of union status. CDL wages continue to climb because of a shortage of qualified drivers, but this is a temporary anomaly. "a. Physical capital due to Republicans refusing to invest in infrastructure and instead throw away money towards deficit-based tax-cuts for the rich." Or throw it to shit like Cash for Clunkers, an automotive sector subsidy that almost immediately caused personal transportation costs to skyrocket. "b. Human capital by decreasing money available for education" US consistently ranks very highly in education spending. Some recent cuts to corralling retards is largely irrelevant. "Immigration illegal or otherwise is not affecting your wages." Mine? No. The guy who's now making $10/hr as a manufacturing temp when he would have made $20/hr doing the same ten years ago? Absolutely. Union shops, of course. And they don't mind bringing in cheap temp help as long as those with seniority are covered. "I have never seen a white guy no matter how poor want to pick strawberries." Not for below minimum wage from agri-mega corps. There are a few outlier cases where labor supply dropped and wages jumped into the double digits; these are few and far between. Much easier to pay seasonal immigrants cheap wages than to pay white guys $20, because yeah, unless the money is right, not many want a cheap job that's only gonna last a couple months. "scientific-method-based peer-reviewed research." Please find me some compelling research that Econ 101 suddenly doesn't apply to wages; and labor supply is irrelevant. I'll wait.
Dukhat Member	Tue Aug 14 22:36:48 Most of Forwyn's bullshit is stuff Republicans always say when the economy is growing and they take credit for everything positive when we could be doing much better. Just because it's growing doesn't mean we couldn't be doing better. "Lol. Productivity is at record highs." And concentrated at the top. "Can you point to a sector where this is relevant? The most commonly thought of blue-collar sectors, transportation and manufacturing, have competitive wages regardless of union status. " Wages, because of inflation and loss of collectivization, are basically at their 1974 levels. And unionization helps those that aren't in unions as well. Wages at the state level are higher for all workers in industries with a higher % of unions. "Or throw it to shit like Cash for Clunkers, an automotive sector subsidy that almost immediately caused personal transportation costs to skyrocket. " Fucking kill yourself. Literally just repeated the Koch brother line which is 100% wrong. Class for clunkers worked well. A big part of why the recession was bad was because normal people lost access to credit and delayed purchases of big-ticket items. Cash for clunkers is a CONSERVATIVE idea where you use incentives to achieve economic goals. It incentivized people to buy newer cars because it gave them extra incentives. Newer cars have better fuel mileage and lower maintenance cost. You sound like one of those fucking retards that call in to radio shows recently to say they supported Trump repealing fuel standards because it made cars expensive up front. You couldn't be more ignorant and shortsighted. And it's also a complete red herring. Everyone on both sides of the aisles have said already we need to update our infrastructure. But there are powerful lobbies like the shitty coal industry that want to keep us using old shit. "US consistently ranks very highly in education spending. Some recent cuts to corralling retards is largely irrelevant." It's been decreasing for years and we have a big problem with shitty for-profit institutions wasting our money like Trump University. Having a kleptocrat piece of shit like Betsy Devos refuse to regulate for-profit shitholes isn't helping the situation. As always, everything in America is top-heavy. Great schools ... if you can afford it. Doesn't do much to help the fact that there are many critical skill gaps in the working class jobs that America uses immigration to try and patch up. Republicans might have a case if they increased education spending to replace immigrants with native-born people but it's always a race to the bottom with the Retardican party. "Mine? No. The guy who's now making $10/hr as a manufacturing temp when he would have made $20/hr doing the same ten years ago? Absolutely. Union shops, of course. And they don't mind bringing in cheap temp help as long as those with seniority are covered. " Addressed in the original link. On net, they are positive. Your example is retarded because if I couldn't hire an illegal for an ass-easy job; I'd be looking to outsource ASAP. Get skills quick or get left behind. "Please find me some compelling research that Econ 101 suddenly doesn't apply to wages; and labor supply is irrelevant." Your cartoony understanding of economics is premised on false assumptions. Labor is not all fungible. The most important of which is the ability to speak English which gives native-born workers a huge advantage over most immigrants for higher-paying jobs. Again, this is mostly addressed in the link. I would actually cite my sources instead of just joining you in being a retard making declarative statements but there's no point. "muh science" means nothing to you. You've fallen down the rabbit hole of seeking sources and information that conform to what you already believe. ********* And LOL at you anyways for calling yourself a libertarian and yet repeating breitbart talking points about illegal immigration. Classic libertarians want open borders.
Dukhat Member	Tue Aug 14 22:43:07 And nobody supports illegal immigration anyways. Treating them and refugees humanely isn't a fucking political issue. I'm conservative on the issue but the Republicans have no answers. They just demagogue. A fucking wasteful border wall won't change anything. The solution is e-verify and economic incentives for employers to not use illegals but the establishment GOP is too business-friendly and the Trumpkin GOP elected a retard that never talks about real solutions; only his stupid wall and Gestapo tactics.
Forwyn Member	Tue Aug 14 23:24:10 "And concentrated at the top." lolwut? Pay is increasingly concentrated at the top. Plenty of productivity growth represents unrealized wage growth in the bottom and middle. "Wages, because of inflation...are basically at their 1974 levels. Agreed. But little to be done there when every time inflation drops we get a new round of QE. "And unionization helps those that aren't in unions as well." Up until they don't. Spend a few months in a Teamster mafia shithole and you'll understand why those shops are packing up and moving out. Unions are great when they aren't run by mobsters who happily exploit the lazy. "Class for clunkers worked well." LOL "Burton Abrams and George Parsons of the University of Delaware evaluate the efficiency of the recently introduced 'Cash for Clunkers' program and conclude that the cost exceeds the benefit by approximately $2000 per vehicle." http://www....6.8.1638/ev.2009.6.8.1638.xml "The 2009 Cash for Clunkers program aimed to stimulate consumer spending in the new automobile industry, which experienced disproportionate reductions in demand and employment during the Great Recession. Exploiting program eligibility criteria in a regression discontinuity design, we show more than half of the subsidies went to households who would have purchased during the two-month program anyway; the rest accelerated sales by no more than eight months. Moreover, the program's fuel efficiency restrictions shifted purchases toward vehicles that cost on average $7,600 less. Thus, we estimate on net the $3 billion program reduced total new vehicle spending by $5 billion." http://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.20150172 "It's been decreasing for years" "And even with the decline in spending, the United States still spends more per student than most countries. The United States spent $11,319 per elementary school student in 2014, compared with the OECD average of $8,733, and $12,995 educating each high school student, compared with an average of $10,106 per student across the OECD." http://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-09-18/while-rest-of-the-world-invests-more-in-education-the-us-spends-less "Everyone on both sides of the aisles have said already we need to update our infrastructure. But there are powerful lobbies like the shitty coal industry that want to keep us using old shit." Agreed. I can't wait to see either side stop talking and start doing. "Doesn't do much to help the fact that there are many critical skill gaps in the working class jobs that America uses immigration to try and patch up. Republicans might have a case if they increased education spending to replace immigrants with native-born people but it's always a race to the bottom with the Retardican party." Well, I disagree that the issue is funding, because the core education docket doesn't address the technical skills shortage, so increasing funding won't address it. Smart boards in social studies does fuck all, but that's at least classroom-focused, unlike the $50million football stadiums high schools like to increase millage to build. "Your example is retarded because if I couldn't hire an illegal for an ass-easy job; I'd be looking to outsource ASAP. Get skills quick or get left behind." I agree, a massive cultural shift is in order; prospective employees need to evolve past the "make it 20 for a pension" mindset if they want to make it in the current environment. Probably best to avoid union shops, in that case. "The most important of which is the ability to speak English which gives native-born workers a huge advantage over most immigrants for higher-paying jobs." Higher-paying being important here, especially in the service sector. But higher-wage employees weren't the ones that turned out for Trump, it was the lower and middle-wage workers whose wages have indeed stagnated, because speaking English and showing up on time aren't enough anymore, especially when the former isn't wholly important if it saves 50% or more in payroll. Clearly "Labor is not all fungible." is an irrelevant statement here, because all labor is fungible when it comes to cleaning toilets and picking strawberries, and we all know that an increase in supply without an equivalent increase in demand equates to a lower asking price. "And LOL at you anyways for calling yourself a libertarian and yet repeating breitbart talking points about illegal immigration. Classic libertarians want open borders." Blindly adhering to ideology based on a label is Hot Rod-esque. Muh NAP! Policy measure ideology should be based on a balance of aggregate societal good and minimizing negative externalities, especially governmental. Clearly societies benefit by taking a measured and selective approach to immigration. Naturally, status quo mega-corp studies will reject this conclusion. Let them all in, whenever they want. "A fucking wasteful border wall won't change anything." I agree. It's a wasteful populist measure that doesn't really do much. The screeching about it is a little humorous though; there are plenty more wasteful yearly expenditures exceeding the paltry $20b wall cost. "The solution is e-verify and economic incentives for employers to not use illegals" Much easier to just pierce the veil and start sending people to jail, but that takes balls, instead of a middle-road corporatist approach.
Forwyn Member	Tue Aug 14 23:24:58 "Treating them and refugees humanely" Also, a lot less issue with refugees when you don't create refugee crises by arming jihadis.
Forwyn Member	Wed Aug 15 01:30:46 Speaking of inflation... "Cost of living was up 2.9 percent from July 2017 to July 2018, the Labor Department reported Friday, an inflation rate that outstripped a 2.7 percent increase in wages over the same period. The average U.S. “real wage,” a federal measure of pay that takes inflation into account, fell to $10.76 an hour last month, 2 cents down from where it was a year ago." http://www...lation/?utm_term=.241d146e4831 End the Fed
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