Utopia Talk / Politics / Compensatory masculinity of the homeless

Victim Member	Sat Aug 18 12:42:39 Men are guilty even when they are poor and homeless! http://nat...omeless-their-hypermasculinity Christie Blatchford: Another problem for the (male) homeless: their hypermasculinity As if the homeless didn’t have enough going against them, now, it turns out, the bastards engage in 'compensatory masculinity,' according to new research As if the homeless didn’t have enough going against them, now, it turns out, the bastards engage in “compensatory masculinity,” either blaming the women in their lives for all their problems or sexualizing or revering them as motherly objects. I refer to a chapter in a new book that was written by Erin Dej, a criminologist at Wilfrid Laurier University in Waterloo, Ont. Dej’s chapter is called When a Man’s Home Isn’t a Castle: Hegemonic Masculinity Among Men Experiencing Homelessness and Mental Illness. Her conclusion is that while homeless men are denied the usual range of hypermasculine rewards (a house, a job, power, etc.) such are the benefits of “the patriarchal dividend” that they nonetheless “perform masculinity” and behave in the few hypermasculine ways that remain open to them. Dej is well-published. She is polite, and certainly, she replied quickly to a couple of questions I emailed her. None of what I say is meant to disparage her in any way. But, my God, I despair. Dej is the face of the future. She is the well-educated (one might say hyper-educated) product of the Canadian education system. She got her PhD in criminology from the University of Ottawa, an MA in legal studies from Carleton, held a postdoctoral fellowship with York University’s Canadian Observatory on Homelessness, and now is an assistant professor at Laurier. Yet she so clearly subscribes to modern-think — that there are always oppressors and oppressed — that she could write, of one of the homeless men she interviewed, that his tall stature and build “have allowed him the privilege that many men, and few women, are privy to — not being ‘scared of walking outside at night’.” News flash: It is not uncontested gospel that most women are afraid. This was a fellow named Ron, one of 38 people “experiencing homelessness” she interviewed at two emergency shelters in Ottawa. (Dej also spent 296 hours observing the homeless, and yes, for those who care about such things, she received approval for the project from the University of Ottawa’s research ethics board, and got oral consent from those she watched.) Ron, she said, was diagnosed with a number of mental illnesses (depression, bipolar disorder, anti-social personality disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder) and used cocaine, alcohol and heroin. As a result, his physical health was a mess, and he felt vulnerable, he told her, such that where before he’d heard women say they were scared to walk at night, now, he too was scared: “…like, a little girl could have killed me. That’s how weak I was…” He had also been physically abused as a child. Yet what Dej found most telling was that he positioned “his sense of weakness and vulnerability in relation to women… This vulnerability is the antithesis of hegemonic masculinity…. For Ron, the feminine subjectivity acts as the ultimate exemplar of physical weakness and the most absurd hyperbole of who constitutes a threat.” Why, she wrote, he even compared the cramps he got from his daily methadone treatment as “like, uh, menstruating, almost…. Like my stomach is just, like, cramps.” Dej leapt upon this: “Using menstrual cramps, a sensation Ron has admittedly never felt, to describe the side effects of methadone treatment is telling of Ron’s felt masculinity status.” Only a little later does she say that his identification with menstrual cramps “may be related to his recent identification as bisexual… For Ron, he has failed to live up to the basic tenets of hegemonic masculinity: physical strength, vitality and heterosexuality.” One of the other key tenets, according to Dej, is “emotional numbness,” or what another man, Julian, described as being “’like an island’… “While it is understandable why someone facing such debilitating emotions may revel in the idea of feeling nothing, the fact that this is a way of being that all men should emulate is deeply problematic,” Dej writes. Who says all men should strive or aim for numbness? This is part of the current narrative that masculinity itself is inherently toxic, or at least malformed. That is such a lot of hooey, and so flies in the face of what most women and men know in their bones to be true — that neither gender has a patent on bad behaviour, or for that matter, an exclusive grasp on power. In the time-honoured manner of academics everywhere, Dej pronounces her research important (it “fills a gap,” as she put it) and concludes that because most of the homeless are men (and white, as she also pointed out), “it is essential that interventions that seek to prevent and end homelessness take into account the complex gender dynamics at play…. With this awareness, programs can be designed and services can be provided in such a way as to mitigate the troubling ways that compensatory masculinity manifests…. and introduce men to alternative understandings of masculinity.” Yes, because that’s the one thing the homeless — who have nothing — really need. Or, as a man I know put it: “The homeless are overwhelmingly male. As we all know, under-representation means discrimination. I for one am outraged that women are systemically denied the opportunity to be homeless.” Perhaps the first step could be an initiative where the state takes homes away from white women.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 18 15:18:43 "Wilfrid Laurier" Mm go figure, where you find one nut, there are usually more nuts.
Dukhat Member	Sat Aug 18 15:22:07 Sounds about right. Look at Nim and Rugian. Completely immersed in toxic masculinity.
jergul large member	Sat Aug 18 15:28:56 The study as presented seems solid. Homeless men tend to have identity crises and invoke compensatory techniques to cope. Social service providers should be aware of this and take it into account when interacting or intervening. This is pretty much classic Nimi. Men this or that to compete for women. Mkay, but what then happens to those that strike out completely (nothing says mate with me like a homeless shelter).
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 18 15:36:26 Uhm, most homeless people suffer from mental illness and drug abuse/dependency issue. The streets are the dump for people with mental health issues who have no family or close kin willing or able to take care of them. This "study" is not even of limited relevance, it is actually harmful garbage, extra virgin snake oil.
jergul large member	Sat Aug 18 15:41:18 Nimi I disagree. Mental health issues are of course part of what makes and keeps people homeless, but that does not change the underlying value of the study. Identity crises compound other problems and can make interactions and interventions more complicated. It is important that social service providers be aware of this.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 18 15:53:10 What study? Have you read it? Please link it.
jergul large member	Sat Aug 18 16:09:46 The one cited in the article. I have not read it, I am citing from the opening post in this thread.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 18 16:25:21 It's a book. Certain social sciences fields traditionally publish their findings on book form. It makes them feel smarter. Well there is not much to talk about then. >>even compared the cramps he got from his daily methadone treatment as “like, uh, menstruating, almost…. Like my stomach is just, like, cramps.”<< This is pretty much all you to dismiss this as garbage. It is your typical feminist deconstruction. Ironically the homeless GUY is trying to communicate something that can not be communicated easily without experience to her. Most likely female heroin addicts have described it as such to him (indeed I have heard it explained like that from women with experience), but she had her head so far up her own critical theory ass that she remained impervious to the insights offered. Lost opportunity.
jergul large member	Sat Aug 18 16:38:10 I disagree. The quote strengthens the article by not being a good fit to her general premise (her theory is compensatory masculinity) and indicates scientific honesty (problematising the main finding is an underlying strength). It is an article in a book called "Containing madness" with various contributing authors. I'm fine with you calling it a chapter though.
jergul large member	Sat Aug 18 16:40:47 All you are basically saying is that the man may very well have had 2nd hand experience that would naturally allow him to compare the pains with menstration cramps. Which is fair enough, but not a major point. He still chose to frame it that way instead of being "stabbed in the gut" or whatever other analogy he could have chosen.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 18 16:52:07 I disagree. It actually taints her research and the underlying theory if it can misrepresent someone so badly. "Here is my pain in words you can understand" deconstruction machine -> toxic masculinity made him describe his pain as something feminine. This is what intellectual cancer looks like.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 18 17:03:08 >>or whatever other analogy he could have chosen.<< Indeed, he chose the only one she plausibly could relate to! And she missed it because her head was full of critical theory.
jergul large member	Sat Aug 18 17:06:20 I think you have just made a false-positive diagnosis. Your point is valid in so far as it goes. The interviewer may have neen phrasing things in ways he thought the interviewer would understand. But she clearly established a male in identity crisis. Her point that he measured the extent of his failure against universal female experiences remains valid and quite interesting. I dunno nimi. I think you are too dismissive of a lot of valuable work because of how you label things.
jergul large member	Sat Aug 18 17:11:33 interviewee may have been phrasing things*
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 18 17:22:07 I disagree, from the little I have read in this very critical article I am sure I can easily reconstruct all her misrepresentations and failure to understand what people are saying. I have a lot of experience with her people.
jergul large member	Sat Aug 18 17:32:36 I doubt it. She is highly educated and very smart.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 18 17:34:36 I disagree, she does critical theory and is at best smert.
jergul large member	Sat Aug 18 17:54:39 What she actually did was interviews and had a thesis and recommendations that are entirely reasonable and constructive. Here thesis question was something like "How in the hell do homeless people with mental illness try to cope?"
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 18 18:23:32 Since I haven't read it and neither have you, it is impossible to say, but I remain confident that I can reconstruct her interviews into something more coherent and realistic.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Aug 18 18:33:26 Generally I am dismissive of things that carry a blatant ideological taint, but also am very skeptical towards studies that come from fields where view point diversity is lacking. You I assume believe it is important with female doctors and medicine research? Seb the other day thought it was very important the black people be involved in the design of hand dryers, because the sensors can't detect black hands. So far feminist theory (there is such a thing as "feminist criminology" yes) has focused on women and providing the female POV. It is thus impoverished and ill suited to adequately describe gendered interaction. So if I am to take it seriously or anyone else for that matter, they need more male thinkers to provide the male POV and problematization of toxic female behavior.
Aeros Member	Sun Aug 19 04:15:42 Gender studies was a mistake
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Aug 19 04:39:07 Well, we haven’t really tried it. We have had it done exclusively by one gender, the foundational theories and works are solely the work of women. It is for all intent and purpose still no better than when it was called ”women studies”. And since alot of the work is qualitative, male voices and POVs are needed to improve the field.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Aug 19 04:58:39 From the book. >>Like my lungs were so pathetic. I’ve never been scared, you know, people say, women or whatever say, oh I’m scared of walking outside at night. Like, I can’t imagine that, well I did. I walked down the street and, like, a little girl could have killed me. That’s how weak I was. And I was actually scared. I’m like, wow. Ron positions his sense of weakness and vulnerability in relation to women.<< Because women are generally much weaker than men, this is biological reality. It is largely why we view spousal abuse when the woman is the victim more seriously than the reverse, even though data shows it is fairly even. Because of this physical strength, in virtually all cultures, men archetypically embody physical strength. A systematic error one is prone to make if one thinks like she does and references Butler, gender is preformative and a social construct. It is partly constructed, yes, but the construct or software is built on top existing biological hardware.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Aug 19 05:09:26 She had a double life going and she was doing a lot more drugs than I knew about and she was hanging around the people that we also mutually knew in the bars that I would not hang out with. And these were drug dealers and dirt bags, I call them. That was my term for them. She was hanging around them, and this whole dysfunctional, toxic thing evolved in this relationship. Now I was also doing drugs but I was trying to pull her back, right, and I wouldn’t let go and she got deeper and deeper and I was going in and fol- lowing her in there, and eventually at some point, it’s just a big haze right now but a lot of bad shit happened. A lot. And I ended up in jail. I’d never had handcuffs on until I was 50 years old, you know? Here, Mick suggests that Chelsea is responsible for his transition from casual drug user to addict, a move that resulted in his first serious interac- tion with the criminal justice system and eventual incarceration. Mick engages in compensatory masculinity, positioning himself as Chelsea’s sav- iour, saying ‘I was trying to pull her back’. ———— In the previous page she explains that Mick, has PTSD, OCD, social phobia and ADD on top of his abuse problem. Her analysis exposes a lack of understanding for how addicts in relationships act as enablers in their spiral to the bottom, what toxic feminity is and how it works, and of course how his cognitive deficiencies plays into this. Very sloppy work for someone calling themself a criminologist. When you are this sloppy and the subject is ”people”, people who are literally homeless addicts with mental illnesses, it becomes harmful garbage.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Aug 19 05:33:36 ”Almost all (84 percent) of respondents identified as suffering with distress in their lifetime and 73 percent had taken psychotropic medication at some point. Eighty-nine percent identified as having an addiction.” The End
jergul large member	Sun Aug 19 10:14:55 Nimi The book is called "Containing Madness". The topic is people with mental illness. I think a point she is making is that even men in deep crises will try to maintain a gendered role. This would suggest gender identity is a stronger driver than a mere social construct. The point being is that if you read her through a less labelled lense, you could use her article to support what you believe to be true. You are missing out on a lot by labelling too readily.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Aug 19 15:14:32 >>This would suggest gender identity is a stronger driver than a mere social construct.<< If she had suggested that, this study would be revolutionary. To start from Butler and conclude the opposite of her theory that gender is performative. I am sorry Jergul, you don't know what you are talking about her. Perhaps, read the study and references first?
Dukhat Member	Sun Aug 19 15:25:37 Nobody reads what you have to say Nim. Junkies lose credibility with intelligent people and the cuckservatives who agree with you are too stupid to read beyond a few lines. Get over yourself narcissist.
jergul large member	Mon Aug 20 07:18:01 Nimi Case in point. The researcher showed that desperate, marginalized individuals with serious mental health issue will still try to uphold gender roles. This suggests that gender identity is more than a social construct imposed by social norms and expectations, but may very well have a hard-wired element that no amount of social engineering can change. For and example of how to use research to support your own perspectives. I am not saying the author has drawn her research to that conclusion, but the research certainly allows for such an interpretation. Her argument is simply that marginalized people will still tend to uphold gender perspectives and that health care providers should be aware of this.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Aug 20 08:19:05 Her research lacks explanatory power where other research actually explains this phonomena. So I don’t need it nor is it useful. And no, I am not here to find evidence in support of anything. I read the study and references to the theoretical framework, this is Judith Butler’s theory about gender (free from biology). So while someone familiar with EP and biology can see the horse walk to the river and not drink the water, that isn’t the point. The point is that if something is inherent vs cultural/social, that actually matters if you are trying to figure out the pathology for behavior. What you are saying is, we should disregard what theory she pins the study to (Butler), what the theory actually says, we should disregard all the places where she misrepresents people, because we who who know better, can see the logical conclusion, that sexual identity is innate. That is ridiculous Jergul, you know it. Were health care providers unaware that men indentify as men when they are homeless?
jergul large member	Mon Aug 20 10:35:11 Nimi That is not what I am saying at all. Nor is that what the author is doing, nor is that the role of theory in empirical studies (the data here is the interviews). Butler's theory would suggest that gender roles would weaken as people become detached from the society which contructed the roles. It is interesting when that occurs only partially as it indicates a biological component that may be hard-wired at an individual level. Gender roles are obviously social contructs. Hence the huge variation in role content and also why they are ill-defined. There is no contradiction between claiming that, and also realizing that biology and evolutionary pressures set the stage on which those roles are expressed. Evolutionary theory is assumption based and way too weak explain human behaviour on its on. I think you are misrepresenting the author and labeling valuable research inappropriately.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Aug 20 11:54:55 >>Gender roles are obviously social contructs. Hence the huge variation in role content and also why they are ill-defined.<< Unlike the small variation in things that are in your genome you mean? >>I think you are misrepresenting the author and labeling valuable research inappropriately.<< Well we will have to disgree on that, I read it and given Butlers theory, it is internally coherent and rational provided the premise. I question the premise, much for the same reason you said this: >>Evolutionary theory is assumption based and way too weak explain human behaviour on its on<< But you are also wrong here, evolutionary theory does not exclude the environment from the equation, social constructs act as selection preassure, certain people do less well evolutionarily speaking. When did culture start? 2000 years ago or 2 million? Hard to say but knowledge and behavior passed as part of a cultural system is older than we are. When sociology started, it was called sociobiology, I think that is a good idea but we do not have anything worth the name. Jergul I have nothing in principle against the study of how culture effects and shapes our understanding of sex and sexual identity. What I do think is problematic is when the academic field that does that 1. Is exlusivly viewed through the eyes of one gender. 2. Does not even attempt to seperate environmental and biological (like behavioral genetics does) 3. Basically denies biology is important for understanding anything. If this is important than these things should be taken into consideration, then perhaps we can have a better theory. I don’t know if you saw it but I posted a graphical representation of cross discipline citations, there was virtually nothing going on between the social sciences and biology. That is the signs of a yet to be discovered field that connects them, I hope, because it is very counter intuitive and a bit ridiculous.
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