Utopia Talk - Politics - No More Conservation Needed

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Utopia Talk / Politics / No More Conservation Needed

Hot Rod
Revved Up Sun Aug 19 11:24:10

US Says Conserving Oil Is No Longer an Economic Imperative

The Trump administration says conserving oil is no longer an economic imperative for the U.S.

Aug. 19, 2018, at 9:08 a.m.

By ELLEN KNICKMEYER, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — Conserving oil is no longer an economic imperative for the U.S., the Trump administration declares in a major new policy statement that threatens to undermine decades of government campaigns for gas-thrifty cars and other conservation programs.

The position was outlined in a memo released last month in support of the administration's proposal to relax fuel mileage standards. The government released the memo online this month without fanfare.

Growth of natural gas and other alternatives to petroleum has reduced the need for imported oil, which "in turn affects the need of the nation to conserve energy," the Energy Department said. It also cites the now decade-old fracking revolution that has unlocked U.S. shale oil reserves, giving "the United States more flexibility than in the past to use our oil resources with less concern."

With the memo, the administration is formally challenging old justifications for conservation — even congressionally prescribed ones, as with the mileage standards. The memo made no mention of climate change. Transportation is the single largest source of climate-changing emissions.

President Donald Trump has questioned the existence of climate change, embraced the notion of "energy dominance" as a national goal, and called for easing what he calls burdensome regulation of oil, gas and coal, including repealing the Obama Clean Power Plan.

Despite the increased oil supplies, the administration continues to believe in the need to "use energy wisely," the Energy Department said, without elaboration. Department spokesmen did not respond Friday to questions about that statement.

Reaction was quick.

"It's like saying, 'I'm a big old fat guy, and food prices have dropped — it's time to start eating again,'" said Tom Kloza, longtime oil analyst with the Maryland-based Oil Price Information Service.

"If you look at it from the other end, if you do believe that fossil fuels do some sort of damage to the atmosphere ... you come up with a different viewpoint," Kloza said. "There's a downside to living large."

Climate change is a "clear and present and increasing danger," said Sean Donahue, a lawyer for the Environmental Defense Fund.

In a big way, the Energy Department statement just acknowledges the world's vastly changed reality when it comes to oil.

Just 10 years ago, in summer 2008, oil prices were peaking at $147 a barrel and pummeling the global economy. The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries was enjoying a massive transfer of wealth, from countries dependent on imported oil. Prices now are about $65.

Today, the U.S. is vying with Russia for the title of top world oil producer. U.S. oil production hit an all-time high this summer, aided by the technological leaps of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing.

How much the U.S. economy is hooked up to the gas pump, and vice versa, plays into any number of policy considerations, not just economic or environmental ones, but military and geopolitical ones, said John Graham, a former official in the George W. Bush administration, now dean of the School of Public and Environmental Affairs at Indiana University.

"Our ability to play that role as a leader in the world is stronger when we are the strongest producer of oil and gas," Graham said. "But there are still reasons to want to reduce the amount we consume."

Current administration proposals include one that would freeze mileage standards for cars and light trucks after 2020, instead of continuing to make them tougher.

The proposal eventually would increase U.S. oil consumption by 500,000 barrels a day, the administration says. While Trump officials say the freeze would improve highway safety, documents released this month showed senior Environmental Protection Agency staffers calculate the administration's move would actually increase highway deaths.

"American businesses, consumers and our environment are all the losers under his plan," said Sen. Tom Carper, a Delaware Democrat. "The only clear winner is the oil industry. It's not hard to see whose side President Trump is on."

Administration support has been tepid to null on some other long-running government programs for alternatives to gas-powered cars.

Bill Wehrum, assistant administration of the EPA's Office of Air and Radiation, spoke dismissively of electric cars — a young industry supported financially by the federal government and many states — this month in a call with reporters announcing the mileage freeze proposal.

"People just don't want to buy them," the EPA official said.

Oil and gas interests are campaigning for changes in government conservation efforts on mileage standards, biofuels and electric cars.

In June, for instance, the American Petroleum Institute and other industries wrote eight governors, promoting the dominance of the internal-combustion engine and questioning their states' incentives to consumers for electric cars.

Surging U.S. and gas production has brought on "energy security and abundance," Frank Macchiarola, a group director of the American Petroleum Institute trade association, told reporters this week, in a telephone call dedicated to urging scrapping or overhauling of one U.S. program for biofuels.

Fears of oil scarcity used to be a driver of U.S. energy policy, Macchiarola said.

Thanks partly to increased production, "that pillar has really been rendered essentially moot," he said.

http://www...economic-imperative?src=usn_fb

yankeessuck123
Member Sun Aug 19 11:51:49
how spectacularly idiotic

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sun Aug 19 11:58:40
oil: it's got electrolytes

Rugian
Member Sun Aug 19 12:01:27
...does this guy realize that oil is a finite resource? Forget climate change considerations, that shit needs to be conserved.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Sun Aug 19 12:29:56

Don't we have a larger supply than anyone else?

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Sun Aug 19 12:37:12
Doesn’t matter Hot Rod, efficiency is means for improvment. You shouldn’t waste, if it can be done for less then you do it.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Sun Aug 19 12:43:56

True, as long as we don't put someone in charge like Obama. He wanted the auto industry to put some horrible restrictions on efficiency. I forget the numbers but it would have made the cost of cars outrageous.

I do not believe in waste either.

patom
Member Sun Aug 19 14:00:08
Yep, lets revert to the late 60's, when 15 mpg was considered pretty good.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Sun Aug 19 14:17:50

At least back then all we had to do was glance at a car to tell the make and year.

Wrath of Orion
Member Sun Aug 19 17:15:40
Look at the utter stupidity of Hack Rod. Trump's administration doesn't something hugely retarded, and Retard Rod says, "Whatever, at least it's not Obama."

Fucking moron.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Sun Aug 19 17:33:24

Just exactly what did Trump's Admin "doesn't something hugely retarded..."

wrath of onion, if you are going to post here go learn some American English so we will know what you are saying.

Wrath of Orion
Member Sun Aug 19 18:35:11
Wow, you don't even have the mental capacity to understand that? One typo (that even contains the intended word) is enough to trip you up? Ouch, how do you even make it through a day?

Wrath of Orion
Member Sun Aug 19 18:35:55
Btw, watch as Hack Rod continues to dodge the point by whining about typos...

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sun Aug 19 19:03:13
recall Trump also defended his arch-villain EPA administrator by saying the oil & gas guys liked him

Forwyn
Member Sun Aug 19 19:31:49
I think almost everyone here is in agreement that recklessly consuming a finite strategic resource when there are relatively cheap a) more efficient methods, and b) alternative sources is particularly short-sighted. It might slash consumer costs in the short run, helping a reelection, but when the boomers are dead we'll be picking up the pieces.

Looks like a memo written by Exxon.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sun Aug 19 20:57:27
here's an adult male talking about coal, see if you can guess who
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dk_d0gbXsAEpuzY?format=jpg

Hot Rod
Revved Up Sun Aug 19 21:03:42

" One typo..."

I thought it was a different language.

tw, makes sense to me. Are you having trouble with it?

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sun Aug 19 21:18:14
no I'm sure we've all heard of exploding windmills and pipelines (odd that he attacked pipelines, guess he got carried away) and the indestructible coal in the mines that never collapse.. then he recalled the bird info he heard but mixed up which killed which for a bit... no one could possibly make a more cogent argument for coal

It is interesting how obvious Trump quotes are though isn't it?

With a transcript of any mature adult talking about a subject it wouldn't be clear...

Hot Rod
Revved Up Sun Aug 19 21:32:33

He is talking to a crowd and that gets them up and roaring.

When he is conducting serious business he focuses on the problem and gets it right.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sun Aug 19 21:43:16
yeah... so he talks stupid only to his fans?... except we've seen him in cabinet meetings, still no evidence of knowledge in his tiny child brain

nor on twitter... where he DOES conduct business, sadly...

there is no evidence of him having an understanding of any issue & he's had plenty of time to find someone to give him good arguments for coal

plus recall Trump's reason why the wall needs to have gaps to see through: because of fear drug dealers will throw heavy packages over it & harm someone walking by... did that really need dumbed down to that stupid notion? or is Trump just a 'fucking moron' as Tillerson noted

Allahuakbar
Member Sun Aug 19 22:59:13
Finally Trump has got something right!

Wrath of Orion
Member Mon Aug 20 09:08:36
"Btw, watch as Hack Rod continues to dodge the point by whining about typos..."

"One typo... I thought it was a different language."

One typo is another language to you? Holy shit, you probably have a lower intelligence than I ever imagined. Do you qualify for handicap on that?

And as predicted, Hack Rod dodged the entire point by continuing to whine about typos.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Aug 20 19:04:53

Shush little baby, don't you cry.

I know it was a typo, I was just tweaking your little nose.

Wow, some little squirts are so sensitive.

(Shhh, I bet he thinks Obama created all of this prosperity. Don't tell him it was Trump. It will break his little heart.)

Cold Rod
Member Tue Aug 21 06:03:12
You're dumb, so, so dumb.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Tue Aug 21 07:21:58

Shut up, Rover.

Cold Rod
Member Tue Aug 21 07:40:17
You're dumb. So dumb.

Hrothgar
Member Tue Aug 21 08:28:22
http://skepticalscience.com/images/co2_10000_years.gif

Anyone who thinks that is no big deal is following a religion, not science.

Wrath of Orion
Member Tue Aug 21 13:48:35
Ah yes, now comes the typical Retard Rod backpedaling. We have all seen him do this many times. He makes himself look like a total idiot in some way, gets called on it, then goes on about how he actually understood and was just "playing."

Sure, Retard Rod, sure.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Tue Aug 21 15:12:41

And there goes the onion.

Wrath of Orion
Member Tue Aug 21 15:29:58
You should probably just run away in shame and change your Depends.

show deleted posts

Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Aug 19 11:24:10 US Says Conserving Oil Is No Longer an Economic Imperative The Trump administration says conserving oil is no longer an economic imperative for the U.S. Aug. 19, 2018, at 9:08 a.m. By ELLEN KNICKMEYER, Associated Press WASHINGTON (AP) — Conserving oil is no longer an economic imperative for the U.S., the Trump administration declares in a major new policy statement that threatens to undermine decades of government campaigns for gas-thrifty cars and other conservation programs. The position was outlined in a memo released last month in support of the administration's proposal to relax fuel mileage standards. The government released the memo online this month without fanfare. Growth of natural gas and other alternatives to petroleum has reduced the need for imported oil, which "in turn affects the need of the nation to conserve energy," the Energy Department said. It also cites the now decade-old fracking revolution that has unlocked U.S. shale oil reserves, giving "the United States more flexibility than in the past to use our oil resources with less concern." With the memo, the administration is formally challenging old justifications for conservation — even congressionally prescribed ones, as with the mileage standards. The memo made no mention of climate change. Transportation is the single largest source of climate-changing emissions. President Donald Trump has questioned the existence of climate change, embraced the notion of "energy dominance" as a national goal, and called for easing what he calls burdensome regulation of oil, gas and coal, including repealing the Obama Clean Power Plan. Despite the increased oil supplies, the administration continues to believe in the need to "use energy wisely," the Energy Department said, without elaboration. Department spokesmen did not respond Friday to questions about that statement. Reaction was quick. "It's like saying, 'I'm a big old fat guy, and food prices have dropped — it's time to start eating again,'" said Tom Kloza, longtime oil analyst with the Maryland-based Oil Price Information Service. "If you look at it from the other end, if you do believe that fossil fuels do some sort of damage to the atmosphere ... you come up with a different viewpoint," Kloza said. "There's a downside to living large." Climate change is a "clear and present and increasing danger," said Sean Donahue, a lawyer for the Environmental Defense Fund. In a big way, the Energy Department statement just acknowledges the world's vastly changed reality when it comes to oil. Just 10 years ago, in summer 2008, oil prices were peaking at $147 a barrel and pummeling the global economy. The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries was enjoying a massive transfer of wealth, from countries dependent on imported oil. Prices now are about $65. Today, the U.S. is vying with Russia for the title of top world oil producer. U.S. oil production hit an all-time high this summer, aided by the technological leaps of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing. How much the U.S. economy is hooked up to the gas pump, and vice versa, plays into any number of policy considerations, not just economic or environmental ones, but military and geopolitical ones, said John Graham, a former official in the George W. Bush administration, now dean of the School of Public and Environmental Affairs at Indiana University. "Our ability to play that role as a leader in the world is stronger when we are the strongest producer of oil and gas," Graham said. "But there are still reasons to want to reduce the amount we consume." Current administration proposals include one that would freeze mileage standards for cars and light trucks after 2020, instead of continuing to make them tougher. The proposal eventually would increase U.S. oil consumption by 500,000 barrels a day, the administration says. While Trump officials say the freeze would improve highway safety, documents released this month showed senior Environmental Protection Agency staffers calculate the administration's move would actually increase highway deaths. "American businesses, consumers and our environment are all the losers under his plan," said Sen. Tom Carper, a Delaware Democrat. "The only clear winner is the oil industry. It's not hard to see whose side President Trump is on." Administration support has been tepid to null on some other long-running government programs for alternatives to gas-powered cars. Bill Wehrum, assistant administration of the EPA's Office of Air and Radiation, spoke dismissively of electric cars — a young industry supported financially by the federal government and many states — this month in a call with reporters announcing the mileage freeze proposal. "People just don't want to buy them," the EPA official said. Oil and gas interests are campaigning for changes in government conservation efforts on mileage standards, biofuels and electric cars. In June, for instance, the American Petroleum Institute and other industries wrote eight governors, promoting the dominance of the internal-combustion engine and questioning their states' incentives to consumers for electric cars. Surging U.S. and gas production has brought on "energy security and abundance," Frank Macchiarola, a group director of the American Petroleum Institute trade association, told reporters this week, in a telephone call dedicated to urging scrapping or overhauling of one U.S. program for biofuels. Fears of oil scarcity used to be a driver of U.S. energy policy, Macchiarola said. Thanks partly to increased production, "that pillar has really been rendered essentially moot," he said. http://www...economic-imperative?src=usn_fb
yankeessuck123 Member	Sun Aug 19 11:51:49 how spectacularly idiotic
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Aug 19 11:58:40 oil: it's got electrolytes
Rugian Member	Sun Aug 19 12:01:27 ...does this guy realize that oil is a finite resource? Forget climate change considerations, that shit needs to be conserved.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Aug 19 12:29:56 Don't we have a larger supply than anyone else?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Aug 19 12:37:12 Doesn’t matter Hot Rod, efficiency is means for improvment. You shouldn’t waste, if it can be done for less then you do it.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Aug 19 12:43:56 True, as long as we don't put someone in charge like Obama. He wanted the auto industry to put some horrible restrictions on efficiency. I forget the numbers but it would have made the cost of cars outrageous. I do not believe in waste either.
patom Member	Sun Aug 19 14:00:08 Yep, lets revert to the late 60's, when 15 mpg was considered pretty good.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Aug 19 14:17:50 At least back then all we had to do was glance at a car to tell the make and year.
Wrath of Orion Member	Sun Aug 19 17:15:40 Look at the utter stupidity of Hack Rod. Trump's administration doesn't something hugely retarded, and Retard Rod says, "Whatever, at least it's not Obama." Fucking moron.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Aug 19 17:33:24 Just exactly what did Trump's Admin "doesn't something hugely retarded..." wrath of onion, if you are going to post here go learn some American English so we will know what you are saying.
Wrath of Orion Member	Sun Aug 19 18:35:11 Wow, you don't even have the mental capacity to understand that? One typo (that even contains the intended word) is enough to trip you up? Ouch, how do you even make it through a day?
Wrath of Orion Member	Sun Aug 19 18:35:55 Btw, watch as Hack Rod continues to dodge the point by whining about typos...
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Aug 19 19:03:13 recall Trump also defended his arch-villain EPA administrator by saying the oil & gas guys liked him
Forwyn Member	Sun Aug 19 19:31:49 I think almost everyone here is in agreement that recklessly consuming a finite strategic resource when there are relatively cheap a) more efficient methods, and b) alternative sources is particularly short-sighted. It might slash consumer costs in the short run, helping a reelection, but when the boomers are dead we'll be picking up the pieces. Looks like a memo written by Exxon.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Aug 19 20:57:27 here's an adult male talking about coal, see if you can guess who http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dk_d0gbXsAEpuzY?format=jpg
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Aug 19 21:03:42 " One typo..." I thought it was a different language. tw, makes sense to me. Are you having trouble with it?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Aug 19 21:18:14 no I'm sure we've all heard of exploding windmills and pipelines (odd that he attacked pipelines, guess he got carried away) and the indestructible coal in the mines that never collapse.. then he recalled the bird info he heard but mixed up which killed which for a bit... no one could possibly make a more cogent argument for coal It is interesting how obvious Trump quotes are though isn't it? With a transcript of any mature adult talking about a subject it wouldn't be clear...
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Aug 19 21:32:33 He is talking to a crowd and that gets them up and roaring. When he is conducting serious business he focuses on the problem and gets it right.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Aug 19 21:43:16 yeah... so he talks stupid only to his fans?... except we've seen him in cabinet meetings, still no evidence of knowledge in his tiny child brain nor on twitter... where he DOES conduct business, sadly... there is no evidence of him having an understanding of any issue & he's had plenty of time to find someone to give him good arguments for coal plus recall Trump's reason why the wall needs to have gaps to see through: because of fear drug dealers will throw heavy packages over it & harm someone walking by... did that really need dumbed down to that stupid notion? or is Trump just a 'fucking moron' as Tillerson noted
Allahuakbar Member	Sun Aug 19 22:59:13 Finally Trump has got something right!
Wrath of Orion Member	Mon Aug 20 09:08:36 "Btw, watch as Hack Rod continues to dodge the point by whining about typos..." "One typo... I thought it was a different language." One typo is another language to you? Holy shit, you probably have a lower intelligence than I ever imagined. Do you qualify for handicap on that? And as predicted, Hack Rod dodged the entire point by continuing to whine about typos.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Aug 20 19:04:53 Shush little baby, don't you cry. I know it was a typo, I was just tweaking your little nose. Wow, some little squirts are so sensitive. (Shhh, I bet he thinks Obama created all of this prosperity. Don't tell him it was Trump. It will break his little heart.)
Cold Rod Member	Tue Aug 21 06:03:12 You're dumb, so, so dumb.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Aug 21 07:21:58 Shut up, Rover.
Cold Rod Member	Tue Aug 21 07:40:17 You're dumb. So dumb.
Hrothgar Member	Tue Aug 21 08:28:22 http://skepticalscience.com/images/co2_10000_years.gif Anyone who thinks that is no big deal is following a religion, not science.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue Aug 21 13:48:35 Ah yes, now comes the typical Retard Rod backpedaling. We have all seen him do this many times. He makes himself look like a total idiot in some way, gets called on it, then goes on about how he actually understood and was just "playing." Sure, Retard Rod, sure.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Aug 21 15:12:41 And there goes the onion.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue Aug 21 15:29:58 You should probably just run away in shame and change your Depends.
	show deleted posts

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