Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Fri Sep 21 04:28:29 2018

Utopia Talk / Politics / South Africa moves to seize white land
Aeros
Member
Tue Aug 21 21:48:02
With no compensation. This actually and honest to God can only mean war. After what happened in Zimbabwe, the Boers know where this is going. I hope the Sebs of the world are ready for a full blown racial civil wars where oppressed POCs seek to genocide the white minority that will be trying to genocide them back.

Going to be interesting.

https://amp.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/south-africa-begins-seizing-whiteowned-farms/news-story/8937f899bd3f131bfc4ffb648ea5c53b

THE South African government has begun the process of seizing land from white farmers.
Local newspaper City Press reports two game farms in the northern province of Limpopo are the first to be targeted for unilateral seizure after negotiations with the owners to purchase the properties stalled.

While the government says it intends to pay, owners Akkerland Boerdery wanted 200 million rand ($18.7 million) for the land — they’re being offered just 20 million rand ($1.87 million).

“Notice is hereby given that a terrain inspection will be held on the farms on April 5, 2018 at 10am in order to conduct an audit of the assets and a handover of the farm’s keys to the state,” a letter sent to the owners earlier this year said.

Akkerland Boerdery obtained an urgent injunction to prevent eviction until a court had ruled on the issue, but the Department of Rural Development and Land Affairs is opposing the application.

“What makes the Akkerland case unique is that they apparently were not given the opportunity to first dispute the claim in court, as the law requires,” AgriSA union spokeswoman Annelize Crosby told the paper.


It comes as the South African government pushes ahead with plans to amend the country’s constitution to allow for the expropriation of land without compensation.

The seizures are intended to test the ability of the government to take land under existing laws, which the ruling African National Congress has previously stated is allowable if “in the public interest”.

Earlier this month, City Press reported the government had drawn up a list of 139 farms it planned to seize “to test out” section 25 of the constitution.

The newspaper said employees at the department had been ordered to press ahead with the process at the Land Claims Court.

If the seizures go ahead, it would be the first time the state refuses to pay market value for land. Since the end of apartheid in 1994, the ANC has followed a “willing seller, willing buyer” process to redistribute white-owned farms to blacks.

A 2017 government audit found white people owned 72 per cent of private farmland in South Africa. According to the 2011 census, there are about 4.6 million white people in South Africa, accounting for 8.9 per cent of the population.

ANC spokesman Zizi Kodwa would not reveal details of the farms targeted and attempted to play down investor fears, saying the proposed seizures were “tied to addressing the injustices of the past”.

“Over time I think the markets as well as investors will appreciate that what we are doing is creating policy certainty and creating the conditions for future investment,” he told City Press.

Afriforum, a civil-rights group representing the white Afrikaner minority, subsequently released what it claimed to be a leaked list of 190 farms “being circulated in the department”, inviting farmers to check if they were on it and asking them to get in touch “so that we can prepare for a joint legal strategy”.

The government hit back, with department spokeswoman Linda Page telling News24 the list was a fake. “We don’t know where they got it from,” she said. “There is no truth to this document.”

News24 editor-in-chief Adriaan Basson slammed Afriforum for “disgusting fearmongering in the highest degree”. “Will Afriforum take action against (deputy CEO) Ernst Roets for distributing fake news?” he tweeted. “Will they apologise? We need cool heads — not arsonists — in this debate.”

On Sunday, Mr Roets tweeted that the two farms — Salaita and Lukin — were the first two names on Afriforum’s list.

“So the debate about the authenticity of the list is settled then?” he said. “We hope that the gravity of the state’s plans for expropriation is understood and that people will see through the dishonesty of the Department of Land Reform and Rural Development.

“We hope that the attempts to discredit the legitimacy of the list has now been proven to be malicious for good. We shouldn’t be misled by those who sing Kumbaya while the state is planning to expropriate property.”

AgriSA had described Afriforum’s release of the list as “irresponsible” and “inflammatory”, saying “cursory background research showed” several inaccuracies, including that a number of the farms were joint ventures co-owned by black people.

Earlier this month, cattle farmer Jo-an Engelbrecht told the ABC’s Foreign Correspondent his farm just outside Johannesburg was now “worth zero”.

“We had several auctions in the last two or three weeks cancelled because there was no people interested in buying the land,” he said. “Why would you buy a farm to know the government’s going to take it?”


obaminated
Member
Tue Aug 21 22:08:52
ah shit son, this gon go down
Aeros
Member
Tue Aug 21 22:16:20
Oh yeah, even though it's been almost 30 years since the end of Apartheid, the white minority still owns about 70% of private farmland and overly represented in South Africa's armed forces, particularly their air force and special forces. The civilian boers are also armed to the fucking teeth.

If shit goes down, a full third of South Africa's military will mutiny and the opening stages of the war will see wholesale massacres of blacks near white population centers. After that full blown civil war as the "rainbow nation" seeks to restore control.
Aeros
Member
Tue Aug 21 22:20:57
It's honestly going to resemble the Israeli independence war in scope of ethnic based brutality, cleansing and ultimately international intervention.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Aug 21 22:38:51
Slottin' floppies time
jergul
large member
Wed Aug 22 01:45:44
Aeros
First off, the article clearly states that there will be compensation. Secondly. What % of South Africa's population are white farmers? 8.7*5% = 0.44% of the population?

Eminent Domain is not grounds for war.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 22 01:57:03
Aeros
Do you believe, a fraction of the population owning almost all the best land is a tenable status quo?
Forwyn
Member
Wed Aug 22 02:21:04
"Eminent Domain is not grounds for war."

Racially targeted eminent domain with laughable recompense and laughable due process is grounds for war.

Let's not kid ourselves, you would be calling for UN intervention if the US instigated a campaign to "buy" up all African American farmland in say, Tennessee.

"best land"

Trade equivalent acreage lands between Boer and black activists. In twenty years the "poor farmlands" will be the most profitable.

The educated wrongly look down on and assume that agriculture is an unskilled industry, wherein only capital determines the winners.

But yeah, plenty of places have a fraction of the population owning the "best land". See: San Francisco.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 22 02:39:10
The concept of too much inequality is not exclusive to South Africa by any stretch of the imagination. But these are very different parcels of land.

”will be the most profitable.”

Perhaps, but it would mainly be because of capital that group has that can be invested into the land and supporting infrastructure.

”Skill” is largely a factor of experience.

I am not saying this is good, but neither is the status quo.
Paramount
Member
Wed Aug 22 02:50:23
"South Africa moves to seize white land
With no compensation. This actually and honest to God can only mean war."


So after the whites has seized black land with no compensation, the blacks are now taking back their land, and that means war. Got it.



"With no compensation"

According to your own article, they are being offered $1.87 million.
Forwyn
Member
Wed Aug 22 03:02:40
"I am not saying this is good"

Understatement. This is Rhodesia 2.0.

"but neither is the status quo."

Compared to what? Mass starvation? South Africa is THE economic powerhouse on the continent. Are they so desperate to make this untrue in order to nurture feefees and cater to calls for generational vengeance that ignoring relatively recent history is in order?
jergul
large member
Wed Aug 22 03:32:05
Forwyn
Nothing that happens in your country has the power to amaze me, or cause me to suggest UN intervention.

I have been following it for the lulz for a long time now.

The owners have recourse in domestic and international courts. End of story.

0.5% of the population at most (5% of 8.7%) suggests this will not be Rhodesia 2.0.

BigDickNegro
Member
Wed Aug 22 03:35:10
Today South Africa, tomorrow USA!
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 22 03:58:07
>>Compared to what?<<

Unrealistic options involving reconcilation, compromise and unity. But since people rather burn down what they can’t have I guess ethnic cleansing as an option solves most of the current problems, for a set of new ones.
kargen
Member
Wed Aug 22 03:59:41
South Africa's ruling party will push ahead with plans to amend the Constitution to allow for the expropriation of land without compensation, President Cyril Ramaphosa has said.

The African National Congress (ANC) party had said in May it would "test the argument" that land redistribution without compensation is permitted under current laws, a plan that would have avoided the risky strategy of trying to change the Constitution.

The proposal was first adopted in December by the party, which has been in power since the end of apartheid in 1994.

"It has become pertinently clear that our people want the Constitution to be more explicit about expropriation of land without compensation as demonstrated in the public hearings," Ramaphosa said on Tuesday in a recorded address to the nation.

"The ANC will go through the parliamentary process to finalise the proposed amendment to the Constitution that outlines more clearly the conditions under which expropriation of land without compensation can be effected."
jergul
large member
Wed Aug 22 05:34:30
Kargen
It is not permitted by international law regulated by treaties that South Africa is party to.

murder
Member
Wed Aug 22 08:15:26

If you're white and still in South Africa ...

1. You're retarded.

2. You're asking for whatever you get.

With the history of South Africa, anyone who thought that retribution wouldn't be coming at some point is shockingly dense.

Fuck the land ... flee for your life!

Aeros
Member
Wed Aug 22 08:52:18
It's important to remember that the white settlers have bedn running those farms for almost 400 years, and the "native" blacks have only been there for 200 years. The original inhabitants were khoisan people who died out due to disease.
smart dude
Member
Wed Aug 22 09:08:18
No, Aeros. Blacks are a monolithic people. Because fuck white people.
murder
Member
Wed Aug 22 09:34:01

Blacks are > 80% of the population. Whites are < 10%. When stuff goes wrong, people look for someone to blame. With the history there, who do you think the majority is going to blame?

They can stick around and debate who rightfully owns what if they want to, but it's not going to turn out well.

Why wait to catch the last flight out?
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Wed Aug 22 09:36:54

This does not bode well for Africa.

hood
Member
Wed Aug 22 09:44:22
"If you're black and still in America ...

1. You're retarded.

2. You're asking for whatever you get."

- totally acceptable outlook on life, yeah?
murder
Member
Wed Aug 22 10:17:00
^ obviously based on the long history of blacks oppressing whites in America.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 22 12:26:17
Hood
Or do one with a woman who got raped. Asking for it.

Aeros
>>It's important to remember that the white settlers have bedn running those farms for almost 400 years, and the "native" blacks have only been there for 200 years. The original inhabitants were khoisan people who died out due to disease.<<

Israel, USA. Important to remember right?
Pillz
Member
Wed Aug 22 12:41:00
Nobody of any value inhabited north America prior to colonization by Europeans.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 22 12:59:05
Interesting, but outside the scope. Thanks for your input though!
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Aug 22 13:01:30
Starvation in sa in 3...2...1...
Forwyn
Member
Wed Aug 22 14:01:16
"Israel, USA. Important to remember right?"

Haven't modern societies agreed that displacement, ethnic disenfranchisement, and genocide are disagreeable?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 22 23:46:14
Trump is on it after seeing the story on Tucker Carlson:

"I have asked Secretary of State @SecPompeo to closely study the South Africa land and farm seizures and expropriations and the large scale killing of farmers. “South African Government is now seizing land from white farmers.” @TuckerCarlson @FoxNews"


i would estimate over 90% of his causes have come from Fox News stories
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Aug 23 00:56:59
>>Haven't modern societies agreed that displacement, ethnic disenfranchisement, and genocide are disagreeable?

Can’t disagree with that, the response was to Aeros. The ”real” natives died, so the whites have been there longer than the blacks. He for some reason thought it was ”important to remember” that, so I reminded him.
kargen
Member
Thu Aug 23 01:17:08
"It is not permitted by international law regulated by treaties that South Africa is party to."

Sounds like they could really give a shit about international law because they are moving ahead with the change to the constitution.
jergul
large member
Thu Aug 23 01:38:21
Kargen
That is fair enough, but SA will still have to pay compensation.
kargen
Member
Thu Aug 23 02:43:28
Who is going to enforce that? And are they going to have to pay fair market price or the ten percent they offered?
jergul
large member
Thu Aug 23 03:02:40
Off the cuff, I would think the World Bank would be the appropriate organization for recourse. Compensation is set by arbitration.
kargen
Member
Thu Aug 23 12:55:55
That again assumes some level of cooperation and doesn't answer to the amount paid. The World Bank can freeze any assets that might be in banks outside South Africa and halt transactions between South African banks and other banks (maybe) but the money in the frozen accounts just sits there.

Going back to the opening post though all this doesn't really matter. If the land owners don't want to give up their land and the South African government takes it with or without payment violence is a very likely outcome.

Digging a little more and not all the land on the list is farmland. One of the first two targeted is actually a large private game preserve that charges rich people a whole lot of money to show up and shoot a variety of exotic animals. The money that place generates puts the worth of the land much much more than what the government is willing to pay.
Rugian
Member
Thu Aug 23 17:56:12
How Online White Supremacist Communities Are Celebrating Trump’s Tweet About White Farmers in South Africa

By April Glaser
Aug 23, 20183:46 PM

http://sla...e-farmers-in-south-africa.html

(cancer warning: Slate)

It was nice to have a story that didn't involve Trump while it lasted, I guess.
Forwyn
Member
Thu Aug 23 18:10:48
Imagine thinking that racists trolling online are a bigger threat than racists using the government to roll out ethnic property seizures
Rugian
Member
Thu Aug 23 18:17:02
It also ignores basic common sense. Why do some people think that forced land expropriation in South Africa will result in widespread violence and economic disturbances? Oh right, because we've already seen exactly that happen when Zimbabwe right next door tried it. You don't need to sign up to an obscure "alt-right white supremacist" conspiracy theory in order to get to that conclusion.
Aeros
Member
Thu Aug 23 18:50:55
What is hilarious is all these news companies failed to get their editorial and world news desks on the same page. While the editorial staff are busy slamming Trump for "lying" about land seizures, allm these same papers were announcing the South African governments planned land seizures.
Seb
Member
Thu Aug 23 19:01:05
Aeros:

I was criticising this policy in Zimbabwe when I would guess you were still in highschool.
The Third Reich
Member
Thu Aug 23 19:08:01
We must secure the white race!!! Thank God for Trump!
Seb
Member
Thu Aug 23 19:11:19
Redistribution of farmland hardly ever works.

It kills productivity. The intent is wealth distribution but the nature is it intends to create a few winners (and hence corruption), a lot of lost productivity, and lots of losers.

Better simply to tax it and use the revenues to provide seed capital and subsidised loans for black entrepreneurs or something like that.
Seb
Member
Thu Aug 23 19:12:58
And I you must, use the land tax revenues to buy land back. But that doesn't solve the distribution part, and it's that which causes the corruption/productivity issue (not as some might say, the race of the recipient).
Aeros
Member
Thu Aug 23 19:26:16
Yep, and even if the farmers don't start shooting, before they leave they will Kimball their livestock and burn all the equipment and buildings. The government will get a few hectares of useless dirt.
Dukhat
Member
Thu Aug 23 22:20:23
The Donald stepped into this mess saying white farmers were being murdered in South Africa. Way to make it worst. I guess Aeros wants to join the reactionary "white genocide" crowd now for what good it will do.

South Africa has needed good leadership but unfortunately it's problems are rather implacable. There was never enough wealth among the whites to give the huge number of blacks a decent living and there are no industries South Africa can grow that can employ these uneducated people.
Pillz
Member
Thu Aug 23 23:16:42
^retard
Dukhat
Member
Thu Aug 23 23:41:18
^old, poor, and involuntarily celibate
Pillz
Member
Thu Aug 23 23:45:27
^an actual cuckold
Dukhat
Member
Thu Aug 23 23:49:21
^retard thinks his alt-right incel slang means anything to a normal person
obaminated
Member
Fri Aug 24 00:32:56
yet you always respond to it....
Paramount
Member
Fri Aug 24 01:15:20
“Why do some people think that forced land expropriation in South Africa will result in widespread violence and economic disturbances? Oh right, because we've already seen exactly that happen when Zimbabwe right next door tried it”


Or in Palestine. Why can’t Zimbabwe and maybe even South Africa follow the example of The Only Democracy in the Middle East®, Israel, and steal land?
Seb
Member
Fri Aug 24 03:43:13
Aeros:

Generally they don't do that. They sell it off.

People are not as invested in dying for your cause as you are.
murder
Member
Fri Aug 24 12:05:44

Should we start a gofundme page for all the Trump supporters that want to go stick up for their white brethren in South Africa?

I'm sure they've already got their AR-15s and the ammo to go with them, so all they need in airfare. :o)



Pillz
Member
Fri Aug 24 12:41:21
You just want to drone true patriots
Pillzlovesthecock
Member
Fri Aug 24 12:43:29
murder
Member
Fri Aug 24 12:44:13

There's no need to drone them. Just revoke their passports and confiscate their birth certificates once they're out of the country. That solves our problem.

Forwyn
Member
Fri Aug 24 14:00:14
And then when the Boer start winning, "genocide" doesn't become a "conspiracy theory" anymore and they start whining for international intervention.
Rugian
Member
Fri Aug 24 14:00:15
"Should we start a gofundme page for all the Trump supporters that want to go stick up for their white brethren in South Africa?"

Don't be ridiculous. The plan is to admit the South Africans as refugees and Grant them citizenship, ideally by the first week of November.
werewolf dictator
Member
Fri Aug 24 15:04:35
democrat plan is nearly the same to admit all south africans.. except it will be the blacks [and coloreds/asians/other] rather than any whites.. in jan 2021
obaminated
Member
Sat Aug 25 06:38:36
I bless the rains down in Africa.
murder
Member
Sat Aug 25 14:41:30
^ Weezer fanboy :o)
Y2A
Member
Sat Aug 25 19:07:30
I know this is going to be an unpopular question, but why should the expropriation of land that was stolen to begin with be compensated?
Pillz
Member
Sat Aug 25 20:47:45
Cuckhat jr
Forwyn
Member
Sat Aug 25 21:07:45
Who was the land "stolen" from, Cuckhat Jr?
show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message:
Bookmark and Share