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The current time is Fri Sep 21 05:17:48 2018

Utopia Talk / Politics / The Facebook memo
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 05 01:06:26
Obviously nowhere near the quality of the Damore memo, but dealing with one of the issues often talked about, diversity of thought.

http://int...4455/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

We Have a Problem with Political Diversity”

THE PROBLEM
We are a political monoculture that’s intolerant of different views.​ We claim to welcome all perspectives, but are quick to attack—often in mobs—anyone who presents a view that appears to be in opposition to left-leaning ideology. We throw labels that end in ​*obe​ and ​*ist​ at each other, attacking each other’s character rather than their ideas.
We do this so consistently that employees are afraid to say anything when they disagree with what’s around them politically.​ HR has told me that this is not a rare concern, and I’ve personally gotten over a hundred messages to that effect. Your colleagues are afraid because they know that they — not their ideas — will be attacked. They know that all the talk of “openness to different perspectives” does not apply to causes of “social justice,” immigration, “diversity”, and “equality.” On this issues, you can either keep quiet or sacrifice your reputation and career.
These are not fears without cause. Because we tear down posters welcoming Trump supporters. We regularly propose removing Thiel from our board because he supported Trump. We’re quick to suggest firing people who turn out to be misunderstood, and even quicker to conclude our colleagues are bigots. We have made “All Lives Matter” a fireable offense. We put Palmer Luckey through a witch hunt because he paid for anti-Hillary ads. We write each other ad-hoc feedback in the PSC tool for having “offensive” ideas. We ask HR to investigate those who dare to criticize Islam’s human rights record for creating a “non inclusive environment.” And they called me a transphobe when I called out our corporate art for being politically radical.
WHY THIS MATTERS
This is not okay. Not just for our internal culture, but for our own viability as a company. While the problem isn’t unique to us, we are entrusted by a great part of the world to be impartial and transparent carriers of people’s stories, ideas, and commentary. Congress doesn’t think we can do this. The President doesn’t think we can do this. And like them or not, we deserve that criticism. We are blind to and dismissive of what people beyond our walls (let alone even within our walls) think about complex issues that matter. I’ve been here for nearly 6.5 years and this has gotten exponentially worse in the last 2.
FB’ers for Political Diversity
I don’t know how to fix this problem on my own. What I do know is that these issues can’t be fixed if we continue to be isolated and silent. So that’s what this group is for: (a) to be a space where you can talk about these issues ​without fear of the mob​, and in the process (b) to talk about how we can fix this.

If you’re interested in helping make Facebook a company that’s more tolerant and active-minded about different political and ideological perspectives, join FB’ers for Political Diversity.
There’s only going to be one core rule in the group, and it’s that ​if you attack a person’s character, rather than their ideas, you will be banned.

Let’s see where this goes.

McKobb
Member
Wed Sep 05 01:44:58
Falco - Der Kommissar
http://youtu.be/8-bgiiTxhzM

Soon America will need to appoint our Kommissars!
Dukhat
Member
Wed Sep 05 10:49:24
So Trump attacks people non-stop. And when those people make a stand, retards like Nimatzo accuse them of being the bigots.

Fucking retard. Sweden should deport you back to Iran where you can get gang-raped in prison and hot coals placed in your ass.
Forwyn
Member
Wed Sep 05 11:44:28
How refreshing to see Cuckhat standing up for the beleaguered multinationals.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 05 11:55:47
The funny thing is, I married a Kurd, my son is half Iranian half Kurdish. Meaning I have _nothing_ invested in the "white" gene pool, but I stand up for them anyways, because my values are superior.
murder
Member
Wed Sep 05 12:57:46

"attacking each other’s character rather than their ideas."

Your ideas ARE your character.

murder
Member
Wed Sep 05 13:05:34

"There’s only going to be one core rule in the group, and it’s that ​if you attack a person’s character, rather than their ideas, you will be banned."

So either you agree with him that ideas are somehow divorced from those who express them, or you get banned?

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 05 13:11:57
"Your ideas ARE your character."

No. They could be _part_ of your character, but they may also just be ideas you have for whatever reason, that are subject to change provided good reasons and arguments. You certainly are not changing any ones mind, by attacking their character instead of deconstructing the ideas. It may be counter productive to the goal in fact.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 05 13:12:32
Human interaction, difficult stuff, eh murder?
hood
Member
Wed Sep 05 15:36:42
Attacking character:

You defended the actions of Roy Moore? You're a fucking pedophile!

Attacking ideas:

Roy Moore is a pedophile. By supporting him, you're supporting a pedophile, you're supporting pedophilia as being acceptable.

---------

To murder, these are the exact same thing.
obaminated
Member
Wed Sep 05 16:05:34
his parents raised him right.
murder
Member
Wed Sep 05 22:09:31

"To murder, these are the exact same thing."

Actually neither has a damn thing to do with what I said.

Nor does your comment.


obaminated
Member
Wed Sep 05 22:15:50
"The funny thing is, I married a Kurd"

I dated a Persian. Basically the same. They are pretty, seductive but incredibly mean women. My favorite quote from her, while we were dating.

"My mother told me to keep my eyes wide open while I'm dating, but to close my eyes once I'm married."

Gotta love a woman with that mentality, until they ask you to prove you are at your friends house after dating for half a year.

hood
Member
Wed Sep 05 22:18:40
"Actually neither has a damn thing to do with what I said."

The opinions of a retarded nobody has no effect on reality.
murder
Member
Wed Sep 05 22:21:14

"No. They could be _part_ of your character, but they may also just be ideas you have for whatever reason, that are subject to change provided good reasons and arguments. You certainly are not changing any ones mind, by attacking their character instead of deconstructing the ideas. It may be counter productive to the goal in fact."

Yeah, your character can change too. Nonetheless, at every point in time, you ARE your ideas.

And you're wrong, attacking someone's character works just fine. A good shaming has been known to work small miracles.


"attacking each other’s character rather than their ideas."

^ this is the gobbledygook of someone who wants to have, express, propagate, shitty ideas without being held to account for his/her shittiness.

murder
Member
Wed Sep 05 22:24:33

"The opinions of a retarded nobody has no effect on reality."

Apparently they have the effect of eliciting a response ... of some sort.

obaminated
Member
Wed Sep 05 22:27:08
I guess if we are judging the merit of a statement based off getting responses, internet trolls are super valuable.
hood
Member
Wed Sep 05 22:38:52
Yes, murder, I sometimes crawl into the muck and splash about with the dregs of the gene pool. People may scoff at shooting fish in a barrel, but sometimes it's relaxing to shut the brain down and just cruise on autopilot.
murder
Member
Wed Sep 05 23:06:07

I didn't claim merit. Just effect.
Dukhat
Member
Wed Sep 05 23:20:11
This he said she said is so fucking retarded. If you support TRump, you are not expressing an honest opinion. You're an ignorant little bigot period and I don't want anything to do with you.

Sue if you want. It's best if we isolate all the Trumptards into their little incel enclaves so they can die out.
hood
Member
Thu Sep 06 00:09:31
Eliciting an effect on me != the validity of your statements.

Methinks you're grasping at the wrong straws.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Sep 06 02:26:05
>>Yeah, your character can change too. Nonetheless, at every point in time, you ARE your ideas.<<

No. Ideas are part of you to varying degrees. If you don’t understand the difference, you should look up what these words mean. In the context of the OP, you ”ARE” not your ideas about, say economic policy.

>>And you're wrong, attacking someone's character works just fine. A good shaming has been known to work small miracles.<<

It has a small niche. Provided a bunch of stuff, having a personal relationship (or respect for) to the person for instance, the target being a a male. Them carrying about ”shame”. Your one size fits all for conversation, is retarded. Are you convinced now you idiot?
murder
Member
Thu Sep 06 09:57:18

"No. Ideas are part of you to varying degrees. If you don’t understand the difference, you should look up what these words mean. In the context of the OP, you ”ARE” not your ideas about, say economic policy."

Try something other than economic policy ... because yes you are.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Sep 07 02:35:36
I have several ideas/opinions about geography and defence spending, a dozen ideas about the iPhone. I promise, you will run out of life before I run out of ideas. We have not even come to my proffessional ideas and opinions. Dispassion is apparently a foreign concept to you.

An idea, even one you (or others) have emotional attachement to, lets pick ”pro-life” is only part of who you are. What motivates that idea? How strong is it? These are not static in most people, we exist among others and the idea exists among other ideas in your head. There are these nuances that can only emerge after civil discourse, listening and understanding. Those things do not happen if you shame people broadly and publicly. You are not even shaming 1 person but a broad and loosly defined group based on 1 issue.

At this point in time, to keep doing what gave you Trump, is stupid. The results are in, you are not shaming anyone away from Trump or the republicans.

But this is meaningless to explain for someone who thinks he is living in a context where the reality he finds himself in, the goal justifies the means. Line them up and let god sort them out. Explaining ”dialogue” for you has limited efficacy.
murder
Member
Fri Sep 07 07:29:02

"Dispassion is apparently a foreign concept to you."

That's all well and good ... for subjects which should not naturally elicit passion. If you are discussing subjects which do naturally elicit passion and you can remain dispassionate, you may be a psychotic killer. Or at least a potential one.



"At this point in time, to keep doing what gave you Trump, is stupid."

I agree, but I've yet to be able to organize a purge.

You can't change rotten people. It can't be done. If you get off on the suffering of others, you are beyond help. The only fix for you at that point is to relieve you of the potential to do any further harm to others.



"Explaining ”dialogue” for you has limited efficacy."

Everything is not up for discussion and debate. Everything can't just be passed off as a thought experiment.

hood
Member
Fri Sep 07 07:32:30
"If you are discussing subjects which do naturally elicit passion and you can remain dispassionate, you may be a psychotic killer. Or at least a potential one."

You are so mind bogglingly retarded. Are these asinine statements really the motivation of your stupid comments? Are you so detached from humanity that you cannot fathom another existence different from yours without vilifying it?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Sep 07 08:10:35
>>for subjects which should not naturally elicit passion. If you are discussing subjects which do naturally elicit passion and you can remain dispassionate, you may be a psychotic killer. Or at least a potential one.<<

Or trying to understand the other person and where they are coming from, without your personal emotional outrage getting in way and trying to shame them. There is a grand spectrum in between the sociopath and the person trying to understand.

>>You can't change rotten people.<<

Yes we can.
This is not something to be categorical about, but something that will emerge through dialogue. From my POV you are one of these rotten people, a revolutionary extremist, the most dangerous kind, a person who is not willing to talk about a conflict, leaves very few options for resolving it.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Sep 07 08:33:39
>>Everything is not up for discussion and debate. Everything can't just be passed off as a thought experiment.<<

They could yes, provided a moral philosophical framework we can argue why it isn’t a good idea to eat babies. But in a democratic system, everything that is a subject matter for the political system, can and shall be discussed and debated, revisited, questioned and if needed revised, because the world changes, so should our ideas about it. Only time will tell which ideas stand the test, if they have clear cut answers we will soend very little time arguing over them. The problems is that most of the issues people rage over these days are complex social issues with not enough facts, too many unanswered questions. The discussion over them rapidly goes to shit, because people like yourself can’t control their anger, or rather, you think you are being virtuous when you refuse dialogue and opt for outrage and shaming.

Here is a more practical reasons, shaming and outrage like all forms of emotional arguments in this setting, scale poorly in the long term. People just stop giving a shit, that is another can of worms with unintended consequences.
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