Utopia Talk / Politics / Is This Real? - Russian Microwave Weapon

hood Member	Tue Sep 11 12:56:50 http://ars...ed-us-embassies-in-cuba-china/ This sounds like a bad scifi story. Apparently it's legit. --------- The effects of microwave radiation on humans have long been the focus of weapons research in the US and elsewhere. At some frequencies, microwaves can be used to cause great discomfort—including a burning sensation—without causing long-term effects. But in others, microwaves can penetrate deeper into the body and cause symptoms that include auditory hallucinations induced directly in the brain. Evidence now suggests that strange symptoms experienced by US embassy staff in Havana and China may have been the result of attacks with a microwave—and Russian agents are now the most likely suspects behind the attacks. Last March, the Journal of the American Medical Association published details of examinations of 21 of the victims of the mysterious symptoms, finding they had "sustained injury to widespread brain networks without an associated history of head trauma." Earlier this month, the head of the team that conducted the study told The New York Times that microwaves were the most likely cause of the brain injuries. The Times' William Broad reported that a number of experts have now connected the symptoms experienced by the victims with the Frey effect, also known as the microwave auditory effect (MAE)—in which microwaves induce the sensation of sounds (or even speech) inside a person's head. That effect, first described by American neuroscientist Allan Frey in 1961, has been the focus of repeated research by the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation, and the US. US Navy-funded research in 2003 and 2004 by WaveBand—a company later acquired by Sierra Nevada—looked into the use of MAE as a crowd control weapon called MEDUSA (Mob Excess Deterrent Using Silent Audio): MAE results in a strong sound sensation in the human head when it is irradiated with specifically selected microwave pulses of low energy. Through the combination of pulse parameters and pulse power, it is possible to raise the auditory sensation to the “discomfort” level, deterring personnel from entering a protected perimeter or, if necessary, temporarily incapacitating particular individuals. The research was dropped after WaveBand's acquisition. Kenneth Foster, a bioengineering professor at the University of Pennsylvania and an early researcher into MAE, told IEEE Spectrum in 2008 that the system wouldn't work as intended—”Any kind of exposure you could give to someone that wouldn’t burn them to a crisp would produce a sound too weak to have any effect." Other researchers agreed that heat would get to people before the sound did. The US military continued to look into that particular feature of microwaves. The US Army deployed the Active Denial System, a microwave-based heat weapon, to Afghanistan in 2010 but apparently never used it. The Defense Department has moved on to research in laser-based auditory weapons for non-lethal purposes. But other countries have apparently continued research into such weapons, without concern about the long-term physical effects a microwave weapon would have on its targets—or perhaps because of them. In 2012, Russian Defense Minister Anatoli Serdjukov announced that "directed energy weapons" and "psychotronic weapons"—weapons intended to attack the central nervous system of human targets—were part of Russia's ten-year plan for military weapons procurement. The National Security Agency confirmed to attorney Mark Zaid in a 2012 memorandum that there was intelligence in the late 1990s that a foreign government had developed a high-energy microwave weapon "designed to bathe a target's living quarters in microwaves, causing numerous physical effects, including a damaged nervous system." Now, US officials are certain that the symptoms experienced by victims in Havana and China are the result of deliberate attacks, and Russia is the primary suspect. According to a report from NBC News, the victims included State Department diplomatic corps members, CIA officers, at least one member of the US military, and employees of other US government agencies. The Canadian government has also reported that one of their diplomats also suffered hearing loss from a similar incident in Cuba.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Tue Sep 11 13:30:16 "and Russia is the primary suspect" lol
murder Member	Tue Sep 11 13:47:45 "Evidence now suggests that strange symptoms experienced by US embassy staff in Havana and China may have been the result of attacks with a microwave—and Russian agents are now the most likely suspects behind the attacks." That doesn't make any damn sense. What would be the point?
Seb Member	Tue Sep 11 14:34:32 Murder: Context - what was happening in Cuba and China at the time those individuals were involved in. Any attack would be designed to undermine the performance if those individuals, to the benefit of Russia presumably. Cuba was opening up then. Dunno about china.
jergul large member	Tue Sep 11 15:14:44 Gawd.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Sep 11 15:35:25 Sounds like someone is testing their new weapon. An effective new weapon it looks like. I doubt it is Russia. More likely China developed it.
Average Ameriacn Member	Tue Sep 11 19:03:18 They want to impress us with their new weapons and then sell them to us to win the trade war, but Trump will put a 1000 percent tariff on microwave weapons and ruin them.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Sep 11 19:30:30 "That doesn't make any damn sense. What would be the point?" It may also be something as classy as embassy-to-embassy pranks. U.S. embassies were for a while considering using the Active Denial System as perimeter defense, with the only barrier being that it needed to be made compact enough to be mounted to walls or entrances fairly discretely. China and/or Russia may have arrived at a portable version sooner and decided to test it on embassy neighbors (i.e., it wouldn't be surprising if a Russian embassy security team decided to take their new embassy security toys for a spin, pointing the ray at whichever embassy employees had a window office).
murder Member	Tue Sep 11 20:33:40 "It may also be something as classy as embassy-to-embassy pranks. U.S. embassies were for a while considering using the Active Denial System as perimeter defense, with the only barrier being that it needed to be made compact enough to be mounted to walls or entrances fairly discretely." I have a strong suspicion that we injured our own personnel.
jergul large member	Wed Sep 12 01:02:29 Murder Why would you think that? Just because evidence of Russia having it is some speech on wanting to develop some kind of system over the next decade in the case of Russia And the US deploying that kind of unit overseas in addition to funding and developing such things. You are crazy.
Seb Member	Wed Sep 12 02:37:18 The American system deployed is different - if you mean the skin burning sensation one? Microwaves are a broad spectrum.
jergul large member	Wed Sep 12 04:12:36 Everything we are talking about is microwave. The only smoking guns are American.
jergul large member	Wed Sep 12 04:20:27 Anyway, the level of evidence of anything is right up there with dark age beliefs that Jews were responsible for anything going wrong evah.
Seb Member	Wed Sep 12 05:10:45 jergul: This bullet is a calibre not used by Nato, but Nato has guns. Ergo, NATO? Seems a bit unreasonable. No conclusive evidence, but I don't agree that the hypothesis makes no *sense*.
Seb Member	Wed Sep 12 05:10:45 jergul: This bullet is a calibre not used by Nato, but Nato has guns. Ergo, NATO? Seems a bit unreasonable. No conclusive evidence, but I don't agree that the hypothesis makes no *sense*.
Seb Member	Wed Sep 12 05:14:19 "The National Security Agency confirmed to attorney Mark Zaid in a 2012 memorandum that there was intelligence in the late 1990s that a foreign government had developed a high-energy microwave weapon "designed to bathe a target's living quarters in microwaves, causing numerous physical effects, including a damaged nervous system." This seems to be the pertinent information here. A report, dated long before the events, describing exactly the system that is alleged to have been used in exactly the way it is alleged to have been used.
Seb Member	Wed Sep 12 05:16:59 The idea that ADS as a perimeter defence gone wrong doesn't make sense technically. ADS is highly directional, and would be very noticeable when on. Everyone in the compound (and given these were domestic with dependents there) would need to know it was there. So announcing they think it was a microwave weapon would lead a host of people to actually say "hey, we had ADS there, could it be side effects? I'm gonna sue".
murder Member	Wed Sep 12 06:36:39 "No conclusive evidence, but I don't agree that the hypothesis makes no *sense*." I'm old enough to remember when we were blaming the Cuban government. It should also be noted that the people originally blaming Cuba are people that wanted to undermine improving US/Cuba relations. Furthermore, there is no evidence that any "weapon" at all was involved, that US embassies/consulates in multiple countries are now involved, and that after pointing fingers at dirt poor Cuba, we're pointing fingers at any plausible source available ... for any random reason that anyone wants to attach to it. As a weapon, this would be stupid. The point of this weapon is what exactly?
murder Member	Wed Sep 12 06:40:22 "This seems to be the pertinent information here." No, this seems to be the pertinent information here ... "According to a report from NBC News, the victims included State Department diplomatic corps members ... CIA officers ... at least one member of the US military, and employees of other US government agencies." Sure this may be the result of targeting, but it's at least as likely to result from proximity to the device causing the injuries.
Seb Member	Wed Sep 12 06:53:02 Murder: Russians are known for low level disruption of foreign missions on their soil. A fair few UK official missions have been disrupted by attempting to ensure they don't sleep and poisoning them to give them diaoreah etc. The intent is to demoralise and disrupt. Yes, I remember they pointed the finger at Cuba. I don't think they have any clear idea on who did it. But it's not in the realm of "This makes no sense". If the Russians had this, didn't necesarily understand it had long lasting effects, it's used different mechanisms to do the same thing in Russia. Why wouldn't they do it elsewhere if it helped them in a negotiation or whatever to have a fatigued US negotiator who didn't get any sleep theclast few nights to tinnitus? As to proximity, what device do you imagine?
McKobb Member	Wed Sep 12 07:24:25 http://youtu.be/4nKXjJ7O0s4
jergul large member	Wed Sep 12 09:40:30 Seb We should throw Russians down the wells. After all, they killed Christ.
jergul large member	Wed Sep 12 09:41:49 In sum, this is CT nuttery.
Seb Member	Wed Sep 12 09:51:21 jergul: Are you seriously suggesting noting Putin's track record here is akin to anti-semitism?
murder Member	Wed Sep 12 10:42:54 "As to proximity, what device do you imagine?" I haven't the foggiest. But based on what diplomatic missions and the CIA do, the likelihood is some sort of communications equipment.
Seb Member	Wed Sep 12 12:21:44 Murder: Seems unlikely - why would those be at the domiciled rather than offices.
McKobb Member	Wed Sep 12 12:26:07 Lighting insert in the foyer or something
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Sep 12 13:05:48 “Everyone in the compound (and given these were domestic with dependents there) would need to know it was there.“ False. It is rare that regular DoS staff will know about a compound’s security measures. .. “So announcing they think it was a microwave weapon would lead a host of people to actually say "hey, we had ADS there, could it be side effects? I'm gonna sue".” False. This isn’t some corporate job, this is a U.S. mission, which means hazard wavers and all kinds of legal documents which amount to employees having little to no suing power. At best they’d get health care coverage extended after leaving service for reporting symptoms which can be paired to workplace health hazards. Sounds like Seb still weighs in on topics in which Seb has zero expertise.
Seb Member	Wed Sep 12 13:34:02 Cherub: The proposition is that we have a high powered microwave system that makes people's skin feel like it is on fire, and the system is powered up but there are some sort of fringe effects leaking into quarters. So either staff will have been told to avoid such areas or will have figured out for themselves in account of being "burned". So for them not to know about it ee have to imagine a situation where the system is accidentally powered up when it's not supposed to be, with the sole effect of bathing residential quarters with high powered microwave in a different frequency band than aws works in, and nobodies noticed the anomolous power consumption. It seems quite unlikely.It looks like cherub cow knows so little about the subject they can't even follow the basics. U.s. missions use sub contractors, alleged fault is in the equipment which means the supllier cpuld be sued, and why would the state department be making this such a public is due if there was a likelihood it was their own kit? Also doubt you can waive statutory rights here. Dependents were effected and doubt they can actually legally remove any liability. The idea this is a secret use of ADS as bade perimeter defence gone wrong doesn't stack up.
jergul large member	Wed Sep 12 13:36:01 Seb I will happily entertain CTs for as long as we recognize that this does not entail condoning them. Most likely in order (if indeed wavelength devices are responsible for health issues): 1. US communication system malfunction 2. Foreign eavesdropping system malfunction 3. US perimeter surveillance system malfunction 4. US perimeter defence malfunction 5. Foreign dehabilitation attempt
hood Member	Wed Sep 12 13:53:17 Gotta love when Seb argues something completely different to try and suggest you were wrong in pointing out his stupidity. "What do you mean Frodo didn't want to destroy the one ring? When Bilbo went into the mountains with the dwarves, he clearly stole the ring of power from gollum. When Bilbo passed the ring onto Frodo, he embarked on a quest for Mordor. Clearly you're wrong [in saying that Frodo had doubts on Mt. Doom and would not have destroyed the ring if it weren't for gollum biting it off of his finger and falling into the lava]!"
Seb Member	Wed Sep 12 16:30:30 jergul: I'm not sure you have read the post here correctly. Nobody is saying here "Russia did it". 1. No, highly unlikely: said communications devices at that power level wouldn't be near the residences. It would be in the securer working areas. It would be strange then to have such a marked effect distant from the facility but highly localised. 2. Again, unlikely at the kind of power levels required. Think about the power level of your mobile phone compared to what is needed for the effect in question... an order magnitude different. An espionage device can only really run on battery power, and has to be small. The idea of accidental miniaturised devices able to emit powerful, yet directional beams of microwave sufficient to damage the brain is very far fetched. I'm struggling to think of the kind of listening you would do by shining a high power directional microwave beam into residences. And such a thing ammounts to the same thing the state department are suggesting, merely changing the intent (though I struggle to think what kind of an espionage device would involve a high powered microwave beam as a sensor) 3 and 4: Perimeter suverillance system: this is proper conspiracy theory in that no such device exists or is in use, and the only thing we know of that remotely fits the bill again is not something that would fail in this way without lots of people knowing as discussed previously., It is inconsistent with the fuss the State dept has made about it. We might as well just say the whole thing is fake news and the state department is lying about everything. Hood: What are you on about? If the response to Cherub Cow, Cherub Cow assumed by "Everyone in the compound (and given these were domestic with dependents there) would need to know it was there" that I was saying I expectgd them to have been briefed. What I actually meant (which should be obvious to anyone with a vague background knowledge, which I know jergul exceeds) is that IF this was a leakage from a AWS type system, then everyone would know because there would be strange areas around the compound where if you take a step in the wrong direction you get the sensation of being burned alive. Which I think is kinda noticeable. This ought to have been clear in the first sentence of the paragraph: "ADS is highly directional, and would be very noticeable when on." Cherub missed this, presumably because Cherub did not understand the salience of this point being unfamiliar with ADS. So, I hope you now appreciate the issue was the Cherub misunderstood my post, even though the context is very clear, because Cherub doesn't have the level of knowledge that I know jergul does. It would perhaps have been better for Cherub to seek clarification first.
jergul large member	Wed Sep 12 17:07:21 Seb 1 - Highly unlikely becomes near certainty over time. By malfunction, I would weigh in human error. For example using a device when people were nearby. 2 - An order of magnitude greater than my cell-phone needs? How much would that be in watts? If such a device must be battery powered, then the same dictate would be true of any clandestine device used, would it not? 3 - Here is a microwave surveillance system: http://spe...-camera-can-see-through-walls. Here is a microwave defensive system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System All you need to do is assume the US government is not a monolith organization, but rather has many many organizations doing their own thing with their own funding. Or that the top department level is not always informed on all details of what is known in isolation farther down (cue deep state). So, no. We do not need to call it fake news, nor do we need to think the State Department is making much of a fuss at all at this point. The US screws up all the time over all kinds of stuff. And is huge. Things will and do go wrong.
hood Member	Wed Sep 12 17:18:28 "What I actually meant" As great as that is, that isn't what you said. Your follow up comment about suits indeed makes little sense with what you claim you meant. Your comment about suing ("So announcing they think it was a microwave weapon would lead a host of people to actually say "hey, we had ADS there, could it be side effects? I'm gonna sue".") pretty clearly implies that members of the Embassy would know what an ADS is. CC responded saying that randos inside the embassy likely would have no idea what an ADS is. You then continued on in the post I was criticizing about suing suppliers of product, with is absolutely, completely unrelated to what CC said, which was that an embassy member wouldn't be able to sue the government. Also: "So either staff will have been told to avoid such areas or will have figured out for themselves in account of being "burned"." This contradicts your entire suggestion that people would have figured out on their own. You again pretty plainly stated that staff would have been informed of building defenses and then went out on random tangents completely unrelated to what CC said. Had you stayed on topic, you wouldn't have bothered responding to CC about ADS at all, as her second post in the thread was entirely unrelated to ADS; indeed, it centered around building defenses and your apparent lack of knowledge in how embassies are run.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Sep 13 01:16:57 “Gotta love when Seb argues something completely different to try and suggest you were wrong in pointing out his stupidity.“ +1, and hilarious was Seb’s further invention of my having missed some grandiose technical detail that somehow only Seb and Jergul could catch or understand — almost like sea urchins claiming mastery of the universe: “Oh, you fool! Clearly you missed that we have spikes!” .. “U.s. missions use sub contractors, alleged fault is in the equipment which means the supllier cpuld be sued ... Also doubt you can waive statutory rights here. Dependents were effected and doubt they can actually legally remove any liability.” And yep, Seb’s growing missteps about liability in government service show yet more cluelessness about how embassies and clearance facilities are actually run. Too bad this is something that Seb can’t just Google to feign some knowledge that Seb would claim to have possessed from the very beginning, as megalomaniacs and trolls tend to do. Or I guess it’s not intuitive for Asperger-types to see the pitfalls faced by a fictional person who attempts to sue a hidden entity for a hidden project of which they have no specific knowledge and no way of investigating and which they have previously agreed not to disclose any information about even if they knew anything about anything. I suppose that person could start by drawing an accurate picture of a room on the other side of the world which they have never seen.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 02:41:23 Hood: ADS looks like a giant fucking dish. Hard to conceal. When powers up it creates a wide area where it feels like your skin is on fire. If the device was installed and in use (powered up) then the residents would know about it through experience of it. And they would likely link their symptoms: "hey, we've got weird symptoms, do you think it could be linked to that thing that you installed that makes it feel like your skin is on fire?" Plus, I think they'd Google it no? And immediately find ADS, given the system isn't secret? Also they'd notice the emitters being installed ever hundred feet or so. So we are inevitably talking some weird failure mode that is very implausible. It's pretty clear I knew exactly what I was talking about, and as my point was to jergul who I know knows more about this stuff than you or cherub. Why don't you ask him what he thought I meant? I originally said that victims would sue. CCaid that they'd be no suing power because of waivers. This might apply to being able to sue the state dept, but if the fault is with the kit not performing properly, then I doubt any waiver would extend to the supplier. So my comment on suing is entirely relevant. I have no interest discussing it with you, or cherub, who clearly know little about it. Cherub: There's nothing grandiose. Jergul and I talked about ADS when it was shipped out to Afghanistan. It's a microwave based system with a directional emitter allowing an area up to a few hundred feet to be made intolerable. It works by using a microwave frequency to stimulate pain receptors in the top mm of skin and give the sensation of being on fire. It's a relatively high frequency to avoid penetration. Flaws in the system is that it's easy therefore to block (I suspect why it was never used, actually not that useful). To penetrate into the brain through the caranium requires longer frequencies. If you know a few basic bits, then everything else follows if you've got a bit of engineering or physics background. Your lack of basic knowledge does not make this esoteric or grandiose. Why do you think FTCA would not apply? Compare also to gulf war veterans suits and campaigns over vaccines linked to GWS. And why would a waiver cover a supplier where the equipment supplies had malfunctioned? It's not an act of the government, but incompetence of the supplier? Do you have an example of the waiver that would have been signed? Speculative at best. The idea that somehow ADS was secretly installed and there was no knowledge of it by embassy staff requires that it: 1. Never be intentionally turned on (or people would have noticed areas where there skin "burns") and nobody notices the installation of several to tens of two meter dishes and links it to the syndrome that is publicly attributed to microwaves. 2. Is nevertheless powered up and drawing a chunk of power nobody notices. 3. Is somehow leaking microwaves in a different frequency band outside the targeted area. 4. The state department didn't make the link internally and instead drew lots of attention to the issue rather than playing it down.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 02:48:56 Jergul: 1. Can you give a hypothetical example here? I'm not seeing why or how dependents would be exposed to a high power microwave transmitter. 2. Orders of magnitude. I don't really see how this could be a small device. It needs a big battery. Not saying it can't be portable. 3. The camera is interesting, but if it's tuned to reflect off skin, seems the wrong band again (and as I said, intent at that point becomes secondary). Yes, we've been talking about ADS. But it's never be turned into a perimeter defence system. And as I said, for that to be the cause "it would need to fail in many weird ways".
hood Member	Thu Sep 13 07:41:18 "ADS looks like a giant fucking dish. Hard to conceal." So we're completely ignoring where CC proposed the hypothetical that maybe another country successfully miniaturized it? About 95% of your post is directly about ADS as is publicly known which completely ignores the proposed hypothetical. My assessment is accurate: you saw a keyword and wanted to bloviate about it. You didn't care about what was actually proposed, because "OMG ADS I CAN LOOK LIKE A SMRT PRSN!" "CCaid that they'd be no suing power because of waivers. This might apply to being able to sue the state dept, but if the fault is with the kit not performing properly, then I doubt any waiver would extend to the supplier. So my comment on suing is entirely relevant." I'm going to just parrot CC here. You have no idea how the federal government works. Hell, I have no idea how embassies are run, but even a tiny modicum of ... not even intelligence, but "non-stupidity", would lead you to an understanding that lawsuits aren't happening here. "I have no interest discussing it with you, or cherub, who clearly know little about it." This sentence is extremely telling. You want to talk about ADS. That was only barely relevant to the brief conversation between you and CC. You have run with it as the central argument. You are an ignorant blowhard.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 09:42:20 Hood, you tiresome pedant. You are busy arguing about one response to one post by Cherub Cow to a post I made to Murder and Jergul regarding whether the Americans accidentally injured themselves by use of ADS. I wasn't responding to CC's post, because we have an agreement not to talk to each other. So the fact it differs from CCs "miniaturised and weaponized version" is irrelevant. I'm responding to Jergul and Murder - and on reviewing CC's first post, I tend to agree with CC: I think it far more likely it was intentional by another power rather than accidental. In any case, ADS is still the wrong waveband to penetrate into the brain, so it would be a different system, but ADS is a good proof of concept. CC then decided to disagree with my refutation of Jerguk/Murder's points: "“Everyone in the compound (and given these were domestic with dependents there) would need to know it was there.“ False. It is rare that regular DoS staff will know about a compound’s security measures. .. “So announcing they think it was a microwave weapon would lead a host of people to actually say "hey, we had ADS there, could it be side effects? I'm gonna sue".” False. This isn’t some corporate job, this is a U.S. mission, which means hazard wavers and all kinds of legal documents which amount to employees having little to no suing power. At best they’d get health care coverage extended after leaving service for reporting symptoms which can be paired to workplace health hazards. Sounds like Seb still weighs in on topics in which Seb has zero expertise." So: 1. CC is not defending CC's original proposition, that it was an attack by a foreign power. CC is now trying to undermine my refutation of Jergul and Murder's theory it was "friendly fire" from a malfunctioning ADS permiter defence system. CC's refutation is based on falsely assuming that the only way residents would know about the system was if they were briefed, rather than direct observation/experience of the effects and the implausibility of it being kept a secret. They'd know something was there, if not the details. 2. CC additionally asserts that there would be no way people, even if they did make the link, would sue because they'd have signed a waiver. Well, there are statutory rights here which are often hard to waive, there's no evidence that there is a particular waiver that would cover this, and in any case waivers on what the state department as an employer is not responsible for would not extend to the manufacturer if a duff product. And even if legally unsound, I would imagine lawsuits anyway - c.f. the failed attempts by military (which are statutorily limited rights) attempts to sue both the govt and third parties over GWS. "that lawsuits aren't happening here." I see. I rather think I know better how that stuff runs than you do actually. In any case, when CC posted I did a bit of googling and I think you need to provide some evidence for this point. " You want to talk about ADS." No, I was talking about ADS, I happen to agree with CC's original post. This is likely a microwave system designed and used by a foreign power - more likely than malfunctioning comms or perimiter defence systems. I disagree with CC's points against my refutation of Jergul/Murder's position. You have extremely poor comprehension skills, and once again you have insisted on derailing a thread on a quixotic quest to try and disprove some phantom of your own imaginings.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 09:44:05 No, *I was* talking about ADS, because that is what jergul and murder were alluding to. [emphasis added].
hood Member	Thu Sep 13 09:51:38 How long until Seb realizes that CC brought up ADS and jergul/murder only barely touched on it (jergul to mention that Americans had "deployed" a unit, and murder to suggest we did it to ourselves) and that ADS was almost entirely a comment from CC? My guess: sometime after the universe begins to contract.
hood Member	Thu Sep 13 09:54:06 The point of my above post, since certain people are buffoons, is that sebs suggestion that he wasn't responding to CC is either a lie or a flagrant inability to understand/follow conversation.
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 13 10:45:56 "Seb’s growing missteps about liability in government service show yet more cluelessness about how embassies and clearance facilities are actually run. Too bad this is something that Seb can’t just Google to feign some knowledge that Seb would claim to have possessed from the very beginning, as megalomaniacs and trolls tend to do. Or I guess it’s not intuitive for Asperger-types to see the pitfalls faced by a fictional person who attempts to sue a hidden entity for a hidden project of which they have no specific knowledge and no way of investigating and which they have previously agreed not to disclose any information about even if they knew anything about anything. I suppose that person could start by drawing an accurate picture of a room on the other side of the world which they have never seen." rofl Arson is illegal, and that burn shows intent to harm
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 12:25:47 Hood: How long before good realised jergul and web understand eachother better than good understands English? In any case, see the following exchange: "Jergul Wed Sep 12 01:02:29 Murder Why would you think that? Just because evidence of Russia having it is some speech on wanting to develop some kind of system over the next decade in the case of Russia And the US deploying that kind of unit overseas in addition to funding and developing such things. You are crazy. Seb Member Wed Sep 12 02:37:18 The American system deployed is different - if you mean the skin burning sensation one? Microwaves are a broad spectrum. jergul large member Wed Sep 12 04:12:36 Everything we are talking about is microwave. The only smoking guns are American" Clearly jergul and I have established the understanding we are talking about ADS. Now my comment CC responded to clearly wasn't directed at either of you. It very clearly wasn't a response to CCs OP for the very reasons you were complaining about: it doesn't address CCs miniaturized foreign weapon idea, it very clearly addresses jergul insinuation that it's ADS, which is already confirmed with him. Your logic is idiotic, and your complaint my comment doesn't address CCs point is entirely consistent with the fact it was a dressing jergul you moron.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 12:26:11 Every goddamned time. Enough. Your on the same list as CC.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 12:31:52 Forwyn: CC is being naive. As I've pointed out, the thing itself can't be kept secret because the whole point is it has area effect, and in any case the system itself is a commercial product not some super secret skunk works. It's got a wiki page for a start. Nor is it going to be top secret either. It's a radio broadcaster so you'd need to inform host countries etc. So you'd start by filing the claim and subpoena the manufacturer. The govt doesn't actually work like the X-Files might have you believe. CC is actually being terribly naive while indulging in I think what jergul calls kewl kid cynicism.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 13 12:59:42 Seb I just finished reading "Blindsight" (because, why not?). It mentions ultrasound in addition to EM in the invariable (well, except the most recent novel) footnotes and appendices Watts attaches to such things.
murder Member	Thu Sep 13 13:05:45 Seb: Murder didn't mention or allude to ADS. ;o)
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 13:50:13 Murder: Yup, but when jergul started talking about "And the US deploying that kind of unit overseas in addition to funding and developing such things." And then "The only smoking guns are American" After I referenced ADS, by the time of my post CC is objecting to it's clear we are talking about a malfunctioning ADS as a potential cause, and it is that I'm addressing with that post.
hood Member	Thu Sep 13 13:56:12 "Hood: How long before good realised jergul and web understand eachother better than good understands English?" Absolutely fucking priceless.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 15:43:19 Godddamn autocorrect. Why the fuck does Google replace correctly spelled words with ones it feels are "contextually better" and does anyone know how to turn that fucking feature off? Good = hood Web = Seb
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 15:45:12 Jergul: Not read that. Any good? Someone recommended to me before. Space vampires? Or was that something different? I have 3 body problem on my list.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Sep 13 15:54:04 Because google knows what you really meant. Based on your internet history and behavior on the interner that is what you really subconsciously meant to say. It isn’t what you expected, it isn’t pretty or even coherent, but it is you as googles knows you. And who knows you better than that which has not just peaked into the dark abyss of your soul, but has full access to your porn browsing history for the last 8 years? Not even your wife knows you that well.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 13 16:16:03 Presumably, it "learns" what I meant to say from the previous "corrections" it's made too. I just wish the UI did something like highlight words it's changed to give you a clearer review point after you've finished typing.
hood Member	Thu Sep 13 16:28:37 "does anyone know how to turn that fucking feature off?" not easily.
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