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Utopia Talk / Politics / Things the Kavanaugh saga taught us
Rugian
Member
Sun Oct 07 10:13:30
-No Democrat ever drank to excess in college

-Men need to "shut up" and sit on the sidelines whenever a woman cries sexual harassment from four decades ago

-Showing emotion while the press accuses you of participating in rape gangbangs is apparently wrong

-High school yearbooks are germane to Supreme Court confirmations

-Liking beer is bad (actual WTF!)

-Hillary is now 0-3 in attempts to hijack our government

-"Women" are a monolithic group who can be spoken for as if they have a singular voice

-The press continues to be in touch with the general American public

-Our realities aren't shaped by our internal biases: "Seventy-six percent of Democrats surveyed said they believe Ford, and 76 percent of Republicans said they believe Kavanaugh."

-Lifelong careers should be destroyed based on unsubstantiated claims of inappropriate sexual conduct in high school

-Our system of government is healthy
Seb
Member
Sun Oct 07 10:39:36
And don't forget:

Perjury is a good qualification for supreme court justices.
RugianLovesTheCock
Member
Sun Oct 07 10:57:46
And don't forget.

Rugian loves the cock.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Oct 07 10:59:01
the drinking & yearbook were relevant to establishing his behavior & as to deciding whose memory was more likely faulty

also regarding emotion, he had none at all a day or two prior in his Fox News test interview... it's almost like he's a total fake... and liar
The Sentinal
Member
Sun Oct 07 11:02:00
Rugian is right. Life long careers as a follower of God to lead those to salvation should matter over the miniscule and petty allegations of molestation and sexual abuse. If they didn't say something then, what is their motive for now.
Paramount
Member
Sun Oct 07 11:06:59
We have also learned that if American women speaks up about being sexually assaulted and raped they will be ridiculed by the President of the United States.
The Politician
Member
Sun Oct 07 11:08:40
We also learned that you can believe the person for being a sexually assaulted, but they must have the wrong person.
TJ
Member
Sun Oct 07 11:20:28
Trump plays the left game from a right position and they are totally unaware they are looking at their own behavior. "The Art of the Deal"

I find the emulation rather hilarious and it has been effective. A stable genius. Accusations without facts. lmao
Allahuakbar
Member
Sun Oct 07 11:22:51
Election of Kavanaugh is a first good step.

But will you stone Ford now as you SHOULD do?
kargen
Member
Sun Oct 07 19:55:38
We know whos memory was at fault. Ford couldn't remember a damn thing except she only had one beer.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Oct 07 21:38:00
wow... you should be embarrassed, that's straight from Trump's mocking speech... i hope it was a joke

it's what HRs believe so hard to tell jokes from real Trump fans
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Sun Oct 07 21:42:57

And you have trouble telling the difference between the truth and the lies that you make up.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Oct 07 21:57:11
^that reminds me of Kellyanne Conway's embarrassing defense of Trump:

STELTER: "The scandals are about the President's lies. About voter fraud, about wiretapping, his repeated lies about those issues. That's the scandal."

CONWAY: "[Trump] doesn't think he's lying about those issues, and you know it."


she's not pretending there's any truth to Trump's nonsense claims, just that the delusional idiot child doesn't think he's lying about them...

"It's not a lie, if you believe it"
~Costanza
kargen
Member
Sun Oct 07 22:18:14
"wow... you should be embarrassed, that's straight from Trump's mocking speech..."

why should I be embarrassed? Democrats jumped on President Trump because of his tone not the words he said. Would have been smarter had he not said it at all but still the truth. Ford couldn't remember shit about the night and everybody else has said there was no such night.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Oct 07 22:23:11
well, clearly you didn't listen to her actual testimony and are taking the mocking words of a total idiot president (who the White House says was not mocking, that he was just stating 'facts'... the new kind of 'facts' that are provably false)

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 08 00:10:16
after a day at the Columbia Country Club in Chevy Chase, MD, she went to a gathering at a home in the area w/ a small # of people, 4 named (not really a party, earlier in the evening)... at some point she went to use the bathroom upstairs, drunken Brett Kavanaugh & drunken Mark Judge followed her and pushed her into a bedroom & onto the bed where Brett Kavanaugh got on top of her & held her down, & Brett Kavanaugh laughed w/ his friend as he groped her & grinded on her, & Brett Kavanaugh tried to remove her clothing, & Brett Kavanaugh put his hand over her mouth to silence her protests.

She got free from Brett Kavanaugh only when Mark Judge jumped on the bed and knocked Brett Kavanaugh off her. She ran from the room to the bathroom and heard them stumble and laugh down the stairs, then she fled herself.



to the R's claiming 'i believe Dr. Ford' to sound compassionate... no, you don't

& for those thinking it's weird not to have memories of things less directly related to the traumatic part, you're just wrong (or a disgusting lying childish piece of orange shit)
Pillz
Member
Mon Oct 08 01:09:41
If that's supposed to be you making a compelling case, you failed.

Lock her up for slander
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 08 01:20:24
that's me countering kargen's view (via Donald 'the Everliar' Trump) that "Ford couldn't remember a damn thing except she only had one beer."

& also was not the sum total of her memories (she also recalled more of the layout & details of the house for example)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 08 01:31:04
Trump probably got his 'one beer' routine from watching some Hannity type show so maybe/hopefully that's where kargen got it from too rather than from Trump

its marginally better, but I'd hate to see another poster just accepting and parroting the disgusting entity who couldn't be more dishonest
werewolf dictator
Member
Mon Oct 08 01:48:45
she remembers them turning up stereo so loud you couldn't hear screaming.. but high decibels of human laughter throughout ordeal is indelible in the hippocampus

she remembers being 15 and being in late teens.. in early 1980s and mid 1980s

she remembers them locking her in room [no mention of remembering getting key or teleporting through door in escape]

therapist remembers her saying 4 boys in room.. then pj was a "bystander" in next versions.. then that was all wrong and it was 4 boys and another girl in house with two boys in room

no one else would have reason to remember night where screams [but not laughter] was drowned out with music.. and she ran out of house and disappeared without transportation.. nothing odd here to notice at all

although otoh leland keyser's lack of memory motives had something to do with "significant health challenges" and being "happy that she’s focusing on herself and getting the health treatment that she needs" and being "glad that she’s taking care of herself.." because when making false insinuations about how old friend has psychological or substance abuse problems [rather than serious neck and back injuries] who is person you no longer speak with.. it is always good idea to talk about your virtuous loving happiness at them focusing on themselves to authenticate your trustworthiness
kargen
Member
Mon Oct 08 03:15:44
where?
when?
who took her home?
who took her to the party?
how many people were there?
what did the room look like?
who's house was it?
Did they turn the music down when she got away?
Did they go downstairs and start a conversation with the others?
Why was nobody concerned that she never came down stairs?


patom
Member
Mon Oct 08 06:50:52
Those of you who may have daughters, nieces, or any loved ones who are of the female gender. Need to remember this case.

Instruct your female loved ones that in the case of rape or physical molestation, They need to document the incident as clearly as they possibly can. If they have physical evidence of any sort, they need to save it.

They may or may not be capable of confronting their attacker at that moment in time. Thus exposing themselves to the treatment they will suffer from those who defend sexual predators.
Therefore they will, when and if the time comes need all the evidence that they can muster to counter the condemnation that will surely come their way.

If at all possible, you need to attempt to convince your female loved ones that they can come to you for help and if possible understanding. To know that you will support them to the best of your ability.
Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 07:50:06
Patom:

And they would do all that and still have less than 1 in 4 chance of it resulting in a conviction.

I think we need to spend far more effort teaching our boys not to rape people. The kind of entitlement of particularly the well educated sons of the well off, followed by the one inevitable chants of "don't let one silly mistake ruin a life before it's begun" do far more to create the culture of impunity than lack of physical evidence. First and foremost, the bottleneck comes from whether you can show beyond all reasonable doubt that the accused couldn't reasonably believe he had consent.

The only way to do that is if we, as a society, move the needle on what a reasonable man or boy should take to mean consent.

When lack of physical evidence is the key reason for most rapes failing to be convicted...
hood
Member
Mon Oct 08 08:17:17
"I think we need to spend far more effort teaching our boys not to rape people."

Besides making it illegal and repeatedly teaching children that crimes and criminals are bad? Besides all of the negative press surrounding all of these cases (not just the famous ones, but any instance that might only make the local news)? The whole "teach not to rape" is a great sounds bite, but it's fucking retarded.


"The kind of entitlement of particularly the well educated sons of the well off"

Yes, the existence of the elite-by-wealth class is something to deconstruct (but good luck), but that's hardly going to get you far. Sure, you might impact the number of famous, well publicized instances, however that wouldn't actually impact the overall occurrence of rape by very much.

Targeting the bulk of rape means dealing with family life, as over 40% of women (likely the same rate with men) who were raped experienced it before turning 18 (with over 3/4 of the rapists being adults, so no this isn't high school students assaulting classmates). You might then want to reference the other 60% of rape going on. Over half of those cases are by "an intimate partner." Again, family life. This leaves us with, at best, ~35% of cases that would potentially fall under this "teach boys not to rape" bit that implies young men (generally college aged) are the prime targets for rape remedy. I cannot find any relevant statistic for that number, but it's reasonable to just guesstimate that half, at most, of the remaining cases (~17%) fall under "teach boys not to rape."



Methinks that for all the white knighting, y'all don't really understand the gruesome realities of rape. Focusing on "rich entitled boys" will get you just about nowhere. But we might see fewer cases make the national news, so must be a win!? I mean, once it isn't newsworthy, rape has been solved right?

http://www.nsvrc.org/statistics



Patom:
Loved ones are the most likely perpetrators. Would be pretty awkward to tell your female loved ones to save as much physical evidence of the assault you committed on them for when they are finally ready to accuse you. (Theoretical you, not actually accusing you of rape)
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Oct 08 08:18:35

Why the Republican mascot is the strong and wise Elephant.

And the Democrat mascot is the jackass.

hood
Member
Mon Oct 08 08:32:26
And no, I don't have any good tactics for dealing with the seedy underbelly of rape that nobody wants to recognize. But rich entitled boys? Bitch please.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Oct 08 08:41:40

How can you believe Dr. Ford when there is absolutely zero evidence to support her accusation?
Aeros
Member
Mon Oct 08 08:55:46
I listened to her testimony. She described a very horrible event. Problem is she offered no evidence the event occured. Not even the so called therapist notes from 2012. Everyone she said was present during the event said it did not happen.so yeah. Cool story girl
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Oct 08 10:17:33
Duckhat did you put on your pussy hat and go to your local tantrum/protest?
TJ
Member
Mon Oct 08 10:19:13
This saga wasn't about a possible assault-not rape-not Ford-not Kavanaugh, nor the me too movement that seriously deserves better. It was about the willingness to apply any means necessary to justify a political desire. The entire process was a despicable treachery.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Oct 08 10:27:41

The Republicans too?

I don't think so.

Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 11:01:17
Hood:

Yes. For example, you argued strenuously in defense of Ansari as to all the ways it might not have been rape.

Quite simply, if he behaved as she described, he was behaving in what one might colloquially call "a very rapey way". Not ok, but lots of kids seem to think it's their right and - thanks to pervasive porn and a macho culture that thinks women don't want to have sex unless convinced - that they are even expected - to push as far as they can up against the law in order to get laid.

I reckon if we explain very clearly to boys that no, the idea is enthusiastic participation from the woman; and also stop obsessing over people who very clearly have committed rape but who we think really ought to have a lenient sentence (because, you know, he's on the swim team, and he's so young and has such a great future ahead if only he doesn't go to jail for raping someone) then we might not find so many awkward edge cases.

*The reason I say "wealthy" here is not because I have an issue with wealth, but rather the upper middle professional classes that dominate the media industry can all see the wonderful potential in a white skinned, middle class kid like their own, but would never afford the same lenience to a black kid or a poor white kid. Then they would see the accusation of rape as merely confirming their prejudices.

". Over half of those cases are by "an intimate partner." "

Aka date rape, with lots of parallels to the Ansari case.
Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 11:02:05
You start off with teaching boys because boys become intimate partners you moron.
Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 11:02:58
HotRod:

A strong, proud elephant, with it's trunk up a woman's skirt, grabbing her by the pussy, because they let you do that when you are rich and powerful.
Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 11:09:24
"who were raped experienced it before turning 18 (with over 3/4 of the rapists being adults, so no this isn't high school students assaulting classmates)."

Ok, so think, for example, the Ford/Kavanaugh situation. He was 17 and a half, she was 15, and whether you believe it happened or not, the general scenario is absolutely plausible, and would be *just as plausible* if he was 6 months older and therefore an adult. And of course there were older kids in their circle to.

Again, not really clear how this isn't about men thinking "she's over 16, so legal, and she's drunk, so as long as she doesn't say no".

Most rapists are known to their victims - so that doesn't mean "some rando jumping on an 18 year old", and it's not all "dodgy uncle".

Again, your desire to find points to disagree on means you have started burbling nonsense once more.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Oct 08 11:17:57

So you would rather be a jackass?

Cool.


BTW, I have always thought rape should be a Capital Offense.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 08 11:20:32
@wd

-turning up the music to help drown her out does not mean it was so blaring she couldn't hear laughter from 2 feet away

-bedroom doors lock from the inside, typically not even requiring unlocking to turn knob & open

-she likely went outside & walked back to the pool (if close) or used a payphone to call for pick-up as she likely did almost every day (she said went to the pool most days in summer)

-she didn't say all that nonsense about Leland's illness (& one of Brett's shifty answers suggested he DID know Leland, so Brett & his defenders using her claim of not remembering him as evidence of something is complete bullshit... it proves her memory provides no info one way or the other)

------------------

@ kargen

how many people were there? she did have an estimate, w/ 4 named

what did the room look like? she described every relevant room... where the people gathered, the stairs, the bedroom, the bathroom

Did they turn the music down when she got away? I believe she did answer that, but not positive

Did they go downstairs and start a conversation with the others? Yes, that was what she recalled

Why was nobody concerned that she never came down stairs? how would she know what was said? the drunken assholes could've made any excuse for her

-------------

there's no reason to expect her to have perfect memory of all events & date just because she has a vivid memory of Brett Kavanaugh holding her down & assaulting her... not sure why this concept is so hard for people who are desperately trying to suggest she's a liar to understand


my car was broken into, i remember the circumstances... i have NO idea what date, or what i had for dinner... & that's exactly the same as attempted rape
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Oct 08 11:20:57

Seb, here you go.


http://far...3/17069223747_b1418b7129_b.jpg

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 08 11:30:56
Trump has declared it was a "hoax"
& that “It was all made up, it was fabricated, and it’s a disgrace"


so there's your 'facts' to go forth with HR, superdude, maybe kargen & mt...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 08 11:42:59
& for when the last non-deadened part of your mind thinks a President couldn't possibly have said such things... here's video of him saying it, so you can then suddenly find it completely appropriate after hearing it from his mind-numbing voice

http://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1049320740191981570
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Oct 08 11:49:20

What he says does not matter to me.

People say many things in their lives that may or may not be physically practiced.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 08 12:00:10
you're going to suggest he misspoke or something? (like his entire Helsinki press conference where he was taking Russia's side over our intel agencies throughout, but was all just a one-word mistake supposedly)

also, being a hoax was your belief from the start

any thing he hears, mishears, or imagines that is positive for him &/or negative to his opponents suddenly is fact in his diseased brain & must be told to the world
patom
Member
Mon Oct 08 12:33:03
Hood, "Patom:
Loved ones are the most likely perpetrators. Would be pretty awkward to tell your female loved ones to save as much physical evidence of the assault you committed on them for when they are finally ready to accuse you. (Theoretical you, not actually accusing you of rape)"

Do you honestly think that a rapist, pedophile, sexual predator type is going to instruct their victims or potential victims on things they should do to protect themselves? To help them in the future?

You are correct that many perpetrators of sex crimes are family, trusted friends of the family or professionals who normally would be considered above reproach. This only makes it harder for their victims to come forward at the time of their victimization.

After this debacle with the Kavanaugh nomination, I think there will be a marked drop in reported rapes. If she was telling the truth or lying, either way it will discourage victims from coming forward.
hood
Member
Mon Oct 08 12:33:41
"Aka date rape, with lots of parallels to the Ansari case."

You literally have the source posted. The definition of intimate partner as used by the CDC is fairly straightforward. No, date rape does not count, not unless you're getting date raped by a long term partner (several dates with an acquaintance does not qualify).

But since you're retarded, here you go:
"An intimate partner is a person with whom one has a close personal relationship that can be characterized by the following:

-Emotional connectedness
-Regular contact
-Ongoing physical contact and/or sexual behavior
-Identity as a couple
-Familiarity and knowledge about each other’s lives

The relationship need not involve all of these dimensions. Examples of intimate partners include current or former spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends, dating partners, or sexual partners. IPV can occur between heterosexual or same-sex couples and does not require sexual intimacy."

So, no, the Ansari case was not an intimate partner case. From all accounts, the Blasey Ford case was not an intimate partner case. Simply knowing the other person doesn't make it intimate partner.



I'm going to pull a Seb and not bother with the rest of your post, because you clearly and demonstrably did not understand what you were addressing. Feel free to try again with a better idea of what intimate partners are as categorized by the CDC data and recognize that date rape, Blasey Ford episodes, etc. are all included in that left over ~35% I referenced.
hood
Member
Mon Oct 08 12:41:50
"Do you honestly think that a rapist, pedophile, sexual predator type is going to instruct their victims or potential victims on things they should do to protect themselves?"

Congratulations, you figured out the point of my post! Clearly no, a rapist isn't going to do any of that. Thus, you telling men to look after their female loved ones is relevant in maybe ~40% of cases, as in those other cases, the very people you're addressing are the perps.
patom
Member
Mon Oct 08 12:51:18
No, I was addressing those who care about their female loved ones.
There are too many who just like to not address touchy subjects like this. They, for some reason don't even have the sense to explain or instruct their children on the proper terminology of what sex organs are actually called.
These people, for the sake of their children, need to wake up and smell the roses.
werewolf dictator
Member
Mon Oct 08 12:53:38
FORD: Indelible in the hippocampus is the laughter, the laugh — the uproarious laughter between the two, and their having fun at my expense.
LEAHY: You’ve never forgotten that laughter. You’ve never forgotten them laughing at you.
FORD: They were laughing with each other.
LEAHY: And you were the object of the laughter?
FORD: I was, you know, underneath one of them while the two laughed, two friend — two friends having a really good time with one another.

if music in room is loud enough to drown out screams then maybe you can still hear someone laughing right into your ear

but hearing laughter from 5 feet or more.. from second person jumping on bed.. no freaking way

[she also wrote feinstein "From across the room a very drunken REDACTED said mixed words to Kavanaugh ranging from “go for it” to “stop.”".. but at least this "said" is not explicitly indelible in the hippocampus so maybe she would weirdly say "said" instead of "screamed"]

..

"I exited the bathroom, ran outside of the house and went home." [letter to feinstein july]
"Once I heard them go downstairs, I ran out of the house and went home." [polygraph note august]
FORD: Yes. I had to walk past everyone to leave the house, so… [senate]

..

MITCHELL: Are you aware that they say that they have no memory or knowledge of such a party?
FORD: Yes.
MITCHELL: OK. Do you have any particular motives to ascribe to Leland?
FORD: I guess we could take those one at a time. Leland has significant health challenges, and I’m happy that she’s focusing on herself and getting the health treatment that she needs, and she let me know that she needed her lawyer to take care of this for her, and she texted me right afterward with an apology and good wishes, and et cetera. So I’m glad that she’s taking care of herself. I don’t expect that P.J. and Leland would remember this evening. It was a very unremarkable party. It was not one of their more notorious parties, because nothing remarkable happened to them that evening. They were downstairs. And Mr. Judge is a different story. I would expect that he would remember that this happened.

insinuations about leland wouldn't be more clear by pointing finger towards ear and circling it around.. but ford's happy and glad her friend she stopped talking to and who has had like 14 surgeries is taking care of and focusing on herself..
Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 12:56:56
Hood:

Intimate partner means anyone be you are involved in an intimate relationship. Date rape often doesn't happen the first time people have sex.

It's in your own definition: "dating partners"

I don't know where you've got the idea that it has to be a very long term relationship and having had several dates is not enough. But you are wrong.
Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 13:25:23
hood:

"Lots of parallels" by the way, doesn't mean "Exactly the same as". I. Thought. You. Knew. Words.
Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 13:31:54
So, basically, Hood, you have:

Manufactured a disagreement that probably didn't exist in the first place given the key stats he mentioned fall into the kind of scenario in question.

When confronted with the fact that he's not thought through his response, he doubles down, and posts a definition which, erm, includes dating partners.

Uses this as a reason to run away, by deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of the expression "has parallels to" to mean "is equivalent to".

Hood, why even bother? Your bitter crusade to pick a fight at every opportunity just leads to this kind of pointless scenario.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Mon Oct 08 13:42:45

tw - also, being a hoax was your belief from the start


No, I saw the video too. But, just because he said it does not mean he actually did it.

Unless you have additional evidence the rest of us are not aware of.

Don't get me wrong, he may very well have grabbed some woman like that.

But without convincing empirical evidence, he never did it.


You should have learned that in the last two weeks.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 08 15:23:48
@wd

she didn't say the music was so incredibly loud it would drown out laughter nor screams, that would likely attract attention rather than disguise anything

Brett Kavanaugh put his hand over her mouth to deal w/ screams

Ford said: "I don’t expect that P.J. and Leland would remember this evening."... not because of her health, but because nothing remarkable about the evening for them... i assumed her talk about Leland's health was explaining why Leland wasn't getting involved except through a lawyer statement


@HR
you say EVERY time when a woman accuses an R, that's it's a hoax

"but without convincing empirical evidence, he never did it"

sex offenders rejoice
hood
Member
Mon Oct 08 15:24:28
"Intimate partner means anyone be you are involved in an intimate relationship."

Yes, good, you can read!


"It's in your own definition: "dating partners""

Oh, wait, apparently you can't. Or you can't comprehend. One of the two is broken beyond repair.


"I don't know where you've got the idea that it has to be a very long term relationship and having had several dates is not enough. But you are wrong."

Read the fuckinf CDC definition. A few dates != Intimate partner. A few dates for lifelong friends (or even just good friends for a few months beforehand), sure. Several months of close, intimate dating, sure. A few dates with a relative stranger over the course of a month or 2? Not intimate partners.


"Date rape often doesn't happen the first time people have sex."

The fuck are you talking about? Date rape (also referred to as "acquaintance rape") is, by definition, not with an intimate partner. Sex is immaterial.


"Manufactured a disagreement that probably didn't exist in the first place given the key stats he mentioned fall into the kind of scenario in question."

No. Unless there was a history of close friendship between Blasey Ford and Kavrapaugh (kavanaugh + raper, pronounced Kav-rae-paw), the instance here is not covered by the specific statistics I laid out. It would fall into the leftover ~35% bucket.

Even still, my much larger point is that there seems to be a disconnect in your head where you believe most rape is the opportunistic date-rape-esque kind, not the insideous "my father/uncle/grandpa sexually abused me" kind. The attitude that "teach boys not to rape" instills categorically whitewashes the hard, grotesque nature of the majority of rape cases. You don't appear to understand this as you continue to try and argue that the date rape level occurrences are somehow more prevalent than they actually are.

I'm saying that you're a sound byte crusader whose end goal is to root out the fashionable rape cases, the ones that get all the screen time and the newspaper columns and the Senate hearings. You straight up reject the prevalence of those instances that are not media darling material despite them being a pretty clear majority of rape cases. You are weak on rape. You are a coward.

And you're retarded, since you think we somehow don't teach people that it's wrong to rape.
hood
Member
Mon Oct 08 15:26:41
Bleh. I left off brother from the list of men in the insideous list. Father/uncle/grandpa/brother.
kargen
Member
Mon Oct 08 16:06:48
"Did they go downstairs and start a conversation with the others? Yes, that was what she recalled"

when questioned about her recollection she answered she assumed they went downstairs and started talking to the others.

Same with most the other stuff I asked about. When pressed her answers became more and more vague.

The only thing she stuck to was that it was Bret, he was laughing, his friend was there also laughing and the music was loud.
Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 16:23:04
Hood:

The CDCs own definition says quite clearly, dating partner.

Your idea of intimate is incorrect. You can be intimate without previously having sex if that's what you think.
hood
Member
Mon Oct 08 16:36:51
"You can be intimate without previously having sex if that's what you think."

"Sex is immaterial."

Bitch clearly doesn't fucking understand words.


"The CDCs own definition says quite clearly, dating partner."

Yes, we've already established that you are unable to interpret words accurately, so it was foolish of me to think that providing a CDC definition would have been helpful to you in any way.
Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 18:26:43
Hood:

I've interpreted it just fine. You are the one that's come up with some erstatz definition that thinks a "few dates" means you can't possibly be intimate partners.

This is simply wrong. I've no idea how you've come to this conclusion, not do I care. Nothing in your CDC definition supports that view, quite the opposite.

I am content to leave you to your error.
Seb
Member
Mon Oct 08 18:36:54
Fuck it, might as well correct this other point while I'm at it.


Aquaintance rape can include anyone known to you (including family members, intimate partners). It's the antonym of stranger rape. Conflating date rape and aquaintance rape as equivalent is wrong.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquaintance_rape

"Acquaintance rape is rape that is perpetrated by a person who is known to the victim. Examples of acquaintances include someone the victim is dating, a classmate, co-worker, employer, family member, spouse, counselor, therapist, religious official, or medical doctor.[1][2][3] Acquaintance rape includes a subcategory of incidents labeled date rape that involves people who are in romantic or sexual relationships with each other.[4][5][6][7] When a rape is perpetrated by a college student on another student, the term campus rape is sometimes used."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape

"Date rape is a form of acquaintance rape. The two phrases are often used interchangeably, but date rape specifically refers to a rape in which there has been some sort of romantic or potentially sexual relationship between the two parties. Acquaintance rape also includes rapes in which the victim and perpetrator have been in a non-romantic, non-sexual relationship, for example as co-workers or neighbors.[1][2][3][4][5][6] "

Your entire argument hinges on the idea that someone you've had a few romantic dates with can't be considered intimate. Which is just wrong. As you always are, about everything.

hood
Member
Mon Oct 08 19:36:16
"You are the one that's come up with some erstatz definition that thinks a "few dates" means you can't possibly be intimate partners."

You are a retard of colossal proportions. I wish you a swift (relative to the calendar, not in time of experience) and painful exit from your life.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Oct 09 01:23:28
Maybe don't bother, hood. Your point is clear but is still being missed. More Sebbishness.

..
[patom]: "Those of you who may have daughters, nieces, or any loved ones who are of the female gender. Need to remember this case ... They need to document the incident as clearly as they possibly can."

..why specifically female? A bit sexist. That's more cultivation of a protected class victim mindset or a subject-body experience of the world ("[Things will/may happen *to* you]". It further kills Wollstonecraft ideals of *all* people being able to pursue value in life. No thanks.

And documentation is a good idea for *any* crime. Western society has a burden of proof for good reason. Even if Ford was assaulted as she described and even if people believe her testimony despite its flaws, she has zero proof. Zero proof should not have power over others — that's religion, not law.
Seb
Member
Tue Oct 09 01:59:20
Hood:

If you spent half as much time commingled up with a concise, coherent proposition rather than inept and innacurate critiquing of other posts followed by invective, it might be worth reading your posts.

Suffice it to say you've contributed nothing. Again.


We'd do a lot more in society to tackle rape if we focused on getting boys to understand that what they should be looking for from a sexual partner is enthusiastic participation and trying to have sex with things short of that is a deeply dodgy behaviour. Something you evidently don't know given your staunch defence of Ansari for example.

McKobb
Member
Tue Oct 09 02:12:40
Sexual programming isn't the hottest ticket.
Rugian
Member
Tue Oct 09 07:29:27
I come back into this thread to find everyone talking about Aziz Ansari and Seb arguing that men should learn how to ignore one of their most fundamental biological imperatives. Sounds about right.
hood
Member
Tue Oct 09 07:44:28
"Maybe don't bother, hood. Your point is clear but is still being missed. More Sebbishness."

Apparently not clear enough. :/


"We'd do a lot more in society to tackle rape if we focused on getting boys"

I think we have different definitions of what a lot more means. To me, that means tackling the ~65% of rape that happens within the family setting by close, trusted people.
patom
Member
Tue Oct 09 09:50:33
It's a scary time for men:

http://the...-for-men-during-metoo-movement
McKobb
Member
Tue Oct 09 10:43:53
She needs to pull the stingers out!
Seb
Member
Tue Oct 09 12:09:24
Cherub Cow:

Interested in what you consider proof here.

There's certainly plenty of evidence - convictions in all sorts of cases are made without physical and eye witness accounts in many cases.

What in say, Bill Crosby's case is present but absent here that counts as proof?
Seb
Member
Tue Oct 09 12:14:30
Rugian:

Control rugian, not ignore. We are people, not rutting animals. Sex drive is far less fundamental than hunger for example. "I killed and robbed for food" is no defence.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Oct 09 13:24:05
"What in say, Bill Crosby's"

Crosby admitted guilt.

Loldumbseb
Seb
Member
Tue Oct 09 17:19:08
Sam:

No. He admitted giving drugs to another person in a civil case, which he claimed meant knowingly for recreational purposes. I.e. he admitted to supplying drugs to others, not roophieing and raping.

The credibility of his claims was lacking, but again, thats kinda the reason you need To look at all the circunstancial evidence when assessing if a case is proven.


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