Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Sun Nov 18 02:30:45 PST 2018

Utopia Talk / Politics / Globalism vs. Nationalism: The Ideologic
TJ
Member
Tue Oct 30 11:08:29
Is the ideology of the 21st century. Not a left or right, but a forming of Continental Empires in Global unity. Just thinking about it has my eyebrows twitching.

As I'm sure all have noticed that Nationalism will not go down quietly and this will be a dance for the ages. We are in the infancy of a historical century.

What say you?
Rugian
Member
Tue Oct 30 11:43:18
Globalism was a European plot to keep that shitty continent afloat after their inevitable entry into post-colonial decline. MAGA!
Paramount
Member
Tue Oct 30 12:04:11
Nationalism has never brought anything good with it, it is confrontialin its nature, a we vs them mindset. And it has never gone down quietly. Just look at Yugoslavia. Look at the shit going down in Israhell. Etc.
Paramount
Member
Tue Oct 30 12:11:39
”Globalism was a European plot”

Or a Jewish plot?

Theodore Levitt was an American economist and professor at Harvard Business School. He was also editor of the Harvard Business Review and an editor who was especially noted for increasing the Review's circulation and for popularizing the term globalization.

Levitt was born in 1925 in Vollmerz to a Jewish family.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Levitt
Paramount
Member
Tue Oct 30 12:23:30
Not sure Levitt invented globalism though. It’s been around since the 1940. Probably invented by some American. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a Jew. They like to study money and wealth and they are smart.
McKobb
Member
Tue Oct 30 12:32:11
So Globalcrats vs Nationalcans?
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Oct 30 16:04:02

I am a Constitutional Conservative and I love my country and the principles on which it was founded so I guess that makes me a Nationalist too.

I am complete.

Rugian
Member
Tue Oct 30 16:11:34
McKobb
Member Tue Oct 30 12:32:11
So Globalcrats vs Nationalcans?

Ironically not far off from where we started. Republicans were always huge fans of tariffs to protect Northern manufacturers, while southern Democrats really loved themselves some global trade.
Pillz
Member
Tue Oct 30 17:06:18
Hot Rod changes his political affiliation every other thread?
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Oct 30 17:14:25

Hardly.

This has been me ever since I read Atlas Shrugged.

It is not a case of evolving. It is a case of defining.

Dukhat
Member
Tue Oct 30 17:24:26
Nationalism is designed for uneducated voters from the major ethnic group of a country as an excuse for them to assert extra-governmental powers over minority groups.

The group promoting Nationalism almost always gaslights and projects their own faults onto the minority group and depends on a mob mentality among the majority ethnic class to pervert the truth.

The appeal of racism is especially strong to unsuccessful people who are helpless and thus look for a worldview that rationalizes their lack of success and avoids personal responsiblity.

For further examples of the above look at the lives of Rugian, Forwyn, and Werewolf Dictator.

Also, try not to laugh.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Tue Oct 30 17:29:09

Where do you get that crap?

Paramount
Member
Tue Oct 30 17:30:32
Hot Rod
Revved Up Tue Oct 30 16:04:02

I am a Constitutional Conservative

- -

No, you are pedofascist.
Paramount
Member
Tue Oct 30 17:30:54
* a
Pillz
Member
Tue Oct 30 18:08:18
At least we're all in agreement he's no libertarian
Memory Lane
Member
Wed Oct 31 05:08:08
I remember hot rod for years parading around that he was a libertarian and vehemently defended that position and that he would only vote for those who are libertarian. Then one election year, still carrying that particular banner, later admitted that he voted for McCain. Though he was a libertarian and would only vote libertarian.

I drink and remember things.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Wed Oct 31 05:41:31

Why do you make up lies?

I understand that you are the forum drunk, but your lies are absurd.

Memory Lane
Member
Wed Oct 31 05:59:03
13. "BTW, I will vote Libertarian regardless who The dems or repubs nominate"

"I have admitted that I voted McCain"

http://www...hread=37327&time=1281065725652

Like I said I drink and remember things
Delude
Member
Wed Oct 31 06:02:53
Oh I remember this one lol!
patom
Member
Wed Oct 31 06:17:52
As the human population of the planet keeps climbing at a rate they are using up the very things that we all need for survival. I'm thinking it is about time we all start to think globally.

Our advanced technology has already surpassed the oceans ability to regenerate many fish species. Our farming practices keep dumping more chemicals into the soil that is washed into our rivers causing a lot of problems down stream.

Yet the 'I've got mine so fuck the rest of you' mindset seems to be at the heart of the Nationalism movement.
Daemon
Member
Wed Oct 31 06:29:56
Globalism is good!

http://www...018-10/31/content_69154633.htm

BERLIN, Oct. 30 (Xinhua) -- The number of the unemployed in Germany has fallen to a new record low in in October, figures published Tuesday by the country's Federal Labor Office show.

According to the Nuremberg-based institution, the number of unemployed Germans dropped by an annual rate of 185,000 to 2.2 million in October, hence the official unemployment rate declined by 0.1 percentage points to its lowest ever level of 4.9 percent. It was the first time since the beginning of measurements following German reunification that the rate was put at below 5 percent.

Separate figures published by the Federal Statistical Office Tuesday further revealed that the number of employed Germans had reached a historical high in another sign of the current strength of the national labor market.

According to the Wiesbaden-based government agency, 45 million Germans were officially employed in September. The number marked an increase of 1.3 percent or 557,000 individuals compared to the same period last month and was the overall largest recorded by the Federal Statistical Office since its official measurements began after German reunification in 1990.
Seb
Member
Wed Oct 31 07:28:07
I'm not clear on what is meant by globalism.

I'm assuming a rejection of global governance processes.

The globalist Vs nationalist frameing isn't mutually exclusive & collectively exhaustive. It leads to unforseen (negative) consequences ignored or disregarded.

The better framing is Open societies and economies Vs closed ones (Cf Blair).

The benefits of open societies are huge, though come with downsides, result in interdependencues and necessitate some mechanism for global governance.

The rejection of "globalism" means forgoing most of the benefits of open societies, but cannot mitigate against all of the perceived downsides as many of these are a consequence of a changed world. Cyber crime, terrorism, instability from ungoverned spaces, tax evasion and many other issues can be tackled by building iron curtains to some extent, but global collaborative approaches would be more effective.

If these are not preferable for ideological reasons, that's fine, but framing it purely in terms of Open versus Closed draws clearer lines around what follows from rejection of globalism in favour of nationalism.

Trying to obtain the benefits of an open society without full policy discretion of nationalism and not embracing closed Economies and societies (cf brexit "cakeism") risks incoherence, insecurity and unforseen disappointments where voter expectations are not correctly managed.

Capitalism in one country isn't going to perform like Reaganism economically. And trying to maintain free flows of capital and goods without global governance will leave Nations and their electorates leasable to respond to emergent events such as economic shocks.



TJ
Member
Wed Oct 31 11:03:08
I don't view globalism and globalization equally and think therein lies the problem the world is facing. Transition from one to the other.

Sovereignty has a long and rewarding heritage.

We are fairly globalized at the present in a sense. The world has gotten smaller and all should agree. In some ways slow and others with speed.

The U.S. isn't functioning as a true capitalistic society. When you guarantee the impossibility of failing by removing all risk to a venture there is no risk that won't be taken and failure does become inevitable at some point of certainty.

So does that mean that a true capitalistic world society could be considered globalism and will it be risk free, and if so, for who? I venture to say less than more.

Globalism may be at a standstill, but appears to also be inevitable. I'm trying to get my head around something i'll likely never experience, because of age, and I often think that is an advantage.

Huge benefits are subjective as well as bias. Objectivity needs facts not theory.

I don't feel as though I'm being semantically driven with this post. Errors motivate progress and I've made plenty over the years and know the world will spin without my presence. The consistent pattern has always been out with the old and in with the new.
Seb
Member
Wed Oct 31 12:20:52
TJ:

It did. But it has so in an age where where capital and services were not traded (and goods barely traded), and
it was practically impossible for individuals to pose serious threats to states and their populations, where systemic natural threats were viewed as acts of God, where nobody really made much attempt at all to control population flows but thankfully you need not bother as transportation was poor.

Pretty much all of that had changed.

The main reason we have vastly greater living standards than the world of peak national sovereignty (1850) is because of the integration of the world.

This has created or magnified all the threats lifted above.

If you want to go back to national sovereignty, it means either abandoning much of the benefits (capitalism in one country) or it means forgoing the ability to control and mitigate the systemic risks of integration.

The truth is that globalisation has given us most of the benefits of modern life. Countries seeking maximum sovereignty necessarily either become "fax-democracies" like Norway or North Korea. North Korea isn't poor because it's a dictatorship. It's poor because it's dictators prioritise absolute control and sovereignty, necessitation cutting itself off from the world.

And globalisation without some degree of global governance (which doesn't mean global government, it means commitment by cooperating govts to abide by mutually agreed common rules) leads to chaos and dysfunction.

Your statement about risk etc. I think is irrelevant. That's mostly determined internally by policies unaffected by globalism.

Trying to run a global capitalist system without reducing friction for goods, services and capital limits you to capitalism-in-one-country. It means less trade, greater efficiencies and dead weight losses, and therefore a poorer world that grows more slowly.



TJ
Member
Wed Oct 31 12:41:21
Few things have ever gone as I wanted them. If they had I most likely wouldn't have enjoyed much success over nearly a lifetime. I'm not beyond being a little dense at times.

I'm not exactly sure if we are in disagreement other than subtle nuances of expression of the inevitable unfolding forward. I'll wait and see if additional discussion develops.
Cold Rod
Member
Wed Oct 31 15:16:40
LOL notice hot rod ran away like a little bitch when he got caught lying again. Two points awarded to memory lane.
Memory Lane
Member
Wed Oct 31 15:38:20
I remember hot rod retreating multiple times when caught lying or being wrong, and avoiding anything that makes him look like a complete and utter fool.

I drink and remember things.
show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message:
Bookmark and Share