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Utopia Talk / Politics / Jergulistan fail
Nimatso
Member
Thu Nov 08 05:37:17
Norway is incompetent, something like that could never happen in Iran.

http://news.trust.org//item/20181108074154-87wsj/

Oil tanker, frigate in accident off Norway, no sign of oil leak
by Reuters
Thursday, 8 November 2018


OSLO, Nov 8 (Reuters) - An oil tanker and a Norwegian navy frigate collided near the coast of western Norway on Thursday, lightly injuring seven people, rescue services and the armed forces said.

There was no sign of any leak from the Sola TS oil tanker, rescue leader Ben Vikoeren at the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre for southern Norway told Reuters.

The tanker had earlier left Equinor's Sture oil shipment terminal with a cargo of North Sea crude.

The KNM Helge Ingstad frigate took on water and was at risk of sinking. Its crew of 137 had been evacuated, Vikoeren said.

The tanker vessel will return to port for inspection, he added.

The Sola TS, an Aframax class vessel built in 2017, belongs to Tsakos Energy Navigation, according to the company's website.

The KNM Helge Ingstad had recently taken part in NATO's Trident Juncture military exercise, which centred on defence of Norway. (Reporting by Terje Solsvik Editing by Darren Schuettler and Raissa Kasolowsky)

jergul
large member
Thu Nov 08 06:14:24
Definitely incompetence in play. The frigate was rammed in the rear and obviously lost steerage. It is now grounded and may capsize (aka "sink").

Usually the tanker would be clearly at fault (as the frigate was rear-ended), but a tugboat was in play. I rather suspect to tanker was under tow or guidance (the tugboat was acting as lead ship) and the frigate cut into that between the vessels.

That would make it the frigate's fault (the tanker and tug boat essentially being a single vessel for the purposes of navigation).

The tanker returned to berth, but I doubt it lost much paint off its bow.
jergul
large member
Thu Nov 08 06:15:19
Ah yes. The gas facility has shut down as a precaution. That of course immediately impacts on Euro gas supplies.
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Nov 08 10:54:52
The bridge crew were going to learn maritime right of way, but it was more important to attend the agile meeting.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Thu Nov 08 13:26:32
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrfoB8WXgAMLwhJ.jpg
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Thu Nov 08 13:26:46
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrfoCzjW4AErDCx.jpg
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Thu Nov 08 13:26:59
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrfoD7MWsAE_NPr.jpg
kargen
Member
Thu Nov 08 13:37:16
http://war...-the-iranian-frigate-damavand/
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 09 03:49:45
It looks like the frigate was warned by both the tanker and a sentral navigation authority that it was on a dangerous course.

Verified by 5 sources according to the newspaper source.

"We have everything under control"

Lulz and wtf.

"Dangerous Catch" seamanship in action.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Nov 09 04:08:16

The oceans are getting more and more crowded it seems.

jergul
large member
Tue Nov 13 03:31:18
They may pretend the boat is grounded, but in my opinion it is now "sunk" with bits of superstructure still above water.

Head-to-head collision, so I was wrong on think the fregate was rammed from the aft (which is the only thing that made sense with the assumption of decent seamanship).

I am pretty sure overreliance on electronic plotters was the cause here. To be specific - false positive radar returns made the fregate think it was closer to shoals than it was, so wrong thought it had no room to maneuvre to starboard.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 13 03:33:49
The paper pilot map shows clearly a small shoal was nearly a nautical mile away and even it still left room for the frigate to shift right.

My God, what a mindblowingly poor display.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Tue Nov 13 08:41:09
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dr0hD11WsAA933x.jpg
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Tue Nov 13 08:41:18
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dr38ZN-WoAEN7OT.jpg
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Tue Nov 13 09:15:49
http://twitter.com/JosephHDempsey/status/1062288617257754626
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 14 03:18:58
A satirical magazine had that last picture with the title: "Norway acquires a new submarine"

I laughed.
Nimatso
Member
Wed Nov 14 10:47:55
Ship sunk because Norway is cheap:
http://tra...e-spare-penger-pa-bergingen%2F
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 14 11:01:03
Also because they did not know how to splice wires.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWUbj1ZqxOc

An informational video.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Wed Nov 14 11:24:01
http://www...en-til-Haakonsvern-om-tre-uker
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Nov 17 05:56:23
Lol it sank! I guess affirmative action sailors arnt just limitted to us pacfleet...
Seb
Member
Sun Nov 18 04:56:37
So, no comment though on the likely write-off of the Russian carrier?
jergul
large member
Sun Nov 18 05:14:35
Sammy
That was piss-poor recovery efforts by the private sector.

Seb
That was a bit random whataboutism. Again private sector malfeasance (no, you cannot rely exclusively on grid power to run pumps you need to keep a dry dock afloat).

But to answer: I hear a crane fell on the deck and caused easily repairable damage (that can be repaired while the boat is moored).

That it should be written off for other reasons is true, but true for the same reasons the new RN carriers should be written off.

(the only true value does not logically compute. Yes, it will keep boomers safe, but that is a moot point after the first 15 minutes of an exchange).
Seb
Member
Sun Nov 18 12:24:44
Jergul:

Just teasing :p.

I thought I read that basically it wasn't going to be reprable for some reason.

Been mulling on the idea of uncrewed robot arsenal ships to make the UK carriers somewhat more usable. Idea being very cheap stripped down escorts with no other role.

Cheap and disposable.

Say something like the tide class RFA ships (think Norway bought one) or even cheaper old or commercial hulls.

Three phalanx, two RAMs and a bunch of VlS cells for sea ceptor and aster 15s.

No crew so just sails along side the carrier.

The first two systems are self contained and automatic. The latter two can be cued off either the T45 or the carriers using current systems, with Asters taking direction from the T45 and the sea ceptors are fire and forget.

Flight deck to transfer crew for reload, maintenance and steering into dock.

At 200m long, they also do a good job of providing a physical barrier to sea skimming missiles.


jergul
large member
Sun Nov 18 15:11:50
Seb
heh, fair enough. I was more wtf that was random than I was miffed.

You would need to match carrier speed. 18 knots is cheap and easy. 30 (I am guessing that is what the carrier does) is hard and expensive.

Conceptually, just view missiles as very disposable drones. A lot of puzzle pieces fit with that leap.

I have put quite a bit of thought into these things and believe corvette (around 1k tons) sized vessels the best bet for the future for lesser navies like Russia and the UK.

So semi-manned ships :D.

A tidbit. Kongberg has developed a 30 mm anti torpedo munition. Torpedoes are now far less relevant (which impacts on the importance of helicopter capability).
jergul
large member
Sun Nov 18 15:19:40
tide class RFA ships meet the speed ticket. They are not exactly expendible price-wise.

Seb
Member
Sun Nov 18 16:15:16
Jergul:

Yes, needs to be fast. That's why I picked tide.

A tide class costs 150m. I think phalanx are about 2m ditto SeaRAM. Say 200m - cheaper than a frigate and the space to add power and cooling for lasers.

Say four of those.

I'd like something cheaper (the job being to carry a bunch of missiles and get in the way of any leakers) - what was the top speed of their predecessors?

Wondering how much you can cut out when you start removing the crew etc. There's some kind of gearing there, but depends on how much remote control costs.





Seb
Member
Sun Nov 18 16:17:06
Hmm, rover and leaf were much slower.

I assume part of the logic of the faster tide class was to keep up with the carriers.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Nov 18 20:51:35
wire splicing looks complicated
jergul
large member
Sun Nov 18 23:04:52
Tw
It is rather. I would almost certainly muddle it today. But it was never a one-person job for the proper cables. But it is a fast job and the splice will hold.

Thought wires stretch way more than say chain. and chain will not slip if you bolt it. far more appropriate to the task at hand.

So, yah, a fuck fest.

That is why our navy should not have nice things.
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 19 03:24:09
Norwegian police investigators are interrogating a American officer embedded on the vessel on a 2 year exchange programme.

Interesting...

Other vessels had reported very non-standard radio communications prior to the collision.

Compatible with a bridge crew member not fully understanding or able to communicate properely in Norwegian.

Not understanding the warnings the vessel was being given would certainly explain the lack of response to the warnings.

Seb
Member
Mon Nov 19 03:36:35
Saw that this weekend but assumed it was routine.

It would be tres amusant if it's turned out it was another example of USN seamanship fail.

jergul
large member
Mon Nov 19 03:47:36
Hubris. English and Norwegian are equally acceptable commmunication forms, but the ship guiding authority and the pilot on the tanker need to know that the Norwegian navy vessel was not currently able to communicate in Norwegian so they could switch to English.
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 19 03:49:30
In sum. Its easier to seem to understand than it is to actually understand. Passable conversational Norwegian would not cut the grade.
Seb
Member
Mon Nov 19 05:23:55
So what's the plan for the ship?

I can't imagine refurbishement is much a possibility - you'd need to refit all the combat systems, sensors etc so can't be far off the cost of a new ship.

How old are they?

Seb
Member
Mon Nov 19 05:39:29
Ouch - 9 years service
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 19 05:57:59
Refit. The political costs of writing off are too high.

Completed: 5
Active: 4
Lost: 1

Lol. Wiki. The truth hurts

Small mercies. Its two helicopters that should have been ready close to a decade ago have still not been delivered, so the avionics suite would have been quite limited.

swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon Nov 19 09:31:52
U.S. Navy Officer Could Face Questions In Norwegian Frigate Collision (excerpt)

http://www...rwegian-frigate-collision.html
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Nov 19 10:00:46
Battleships and armored cruisers would survive these collisions.

Just saying.
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 19 10:50:13
ST
Yah, that was what I was whining about.

SA
Who needs seamanship if only the ship is big enough?

That explains the UKs special relationship with the US at least.

Its a carrier you cannot sink.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon Nov 26 09:07:07
'Unfortunate': Norwegian Ship Salvaging Sunken Frigate Runs Into Pleasure Boat

http://spu...0130361-norway-shipwreck-navy/
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 26 09:31:22
Yah. Yay.
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