Utopia Talk - Politics - Brexit Gotterdammerung

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Brexit Gotterdammerung

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 03:45:06
So, a small dispatch from the UK where tribal conflict continues to wrack the minority government dominated by the countries largest ethnic group.

The government's minister for brexit has quit over the fact the PM and the Cabinet have "reached a consensus" to back the deal he himself negotiated.

Note, consensus is the word you use when you can't say unanimous.

This would be so much better if I hadn't immediately sold by new employers to go back and do brexit stuff.

Rugian
Member Thu Nov 15 10:07:58
Multiple ministers quitting now. Is this finally it for May?

Rugian
Member Thu Nov 15 10:16:44
On a side note, for a pooitician the former minister for Work and Pensions is a real hottie.

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/300333868881313132/

I'd like to take her out on a date and exploit the working classes, if you know what I mean ;)

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 10:43:03
She's called a press conference. I think the 1922 committee have decided to knife her - she's probably going to either resign or fight a leadership challenge.

Odds on a new referendum high.

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 10:44:00
Odds on no deal also very high.

Rugian
Member Thu Nov 15 10:58:23
Oh shit, Rees-Mogg filed for no confidence. If he's not posturing this is gonna be fun.

Average Ameriacn
Member Thu Nov 15 11:02:46
Watching it live to see the historical moment when she announces that the UK will become part of the USA and Trump will become President of the UK:
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-46200010

Rugian
Member Thu Nov 15 11:03:59
^thx for live link

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 11:06:58
So if she contests, she will likely win, with soft brexit backing, which gives her a strong mandate to ignore brexiteers during the second phase of negotiations on the future relationship.

Brexiteers no confidencing her as Tory leader now is threatre and tends to indicate that think that Mays deal will be the only viable basis for the future relationship after transition or May's deal will get voted down in favour of a new ref with high probability of remain.

With no prospect of getting what they want for the long term, they need to put up a show of distancing themselves from May's brexit.

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 11:29:31
She's not going.

Average Ameriacn
Member Thu Nov 15 11:30:22
She hasn't mentioned Trump yet?!

jergul
large member Thu Nov 15 11:38:22
May is doing a good news conferance so far. Remembering that it comes back to back on what has to have been a very draining series of meeting.

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 11:44:16
Which meeting? Cabinet was yesterday

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 11:45:27
This is classic may. Said nothing. Didn't address the elephant in the room. Clearly only done to ensure 6pm news leads with pictures of her looking prime ministerial rather than footage from commons of hey being grilled.

Rugian
Member Thu Nov 15 11:47:33
Yeah, she's being really noncommittal and saying nothing. Like a true politician.

jergul
large member Thu Nov 15 11:48:57
Seb
I was not commenting on the substance. There cannot be any as we all know. Just her form.

Rugian
Member Thu Nov 15 11:51:36
I mean, what else can you expect from her? "Yes, I would absolutely resign if the House of Commons voted for a second referendum."

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 11:59:39
Rugian:

A more head on addressing of the arguments against her deal and a full throated rebuttal of them.

A direct attack on those undermining a deal and their recklessness.

It's so tepid. Not conciliatory. Not coming out fighting. Just meh.

Maybotic.

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 12:01:06
John major did a back me or sack me move under similar circumstances.

Rugian
Member Thu Nov 15 13:49:36
Meh, that's just who she is. Bad quality for campaigning, good for collegiality.

Going with a "fuck or walk" attitude would be supremely dangerous and I'm sure May is rather skittish when it comes to elections. If it does get to that point it would probably be because she thought it was her absolute last resort.

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 14:15:14
Rugian:

She's famously uncolegiate.

And if you count up declared no confidence and resignations, she can't get her vote past parliament.

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 14:25:29
She's at that point where she needs to do something to change the game.

Rugian
Member Thu Nov 15 15:08:29
Seb,

Collegial may be the wrong word. She's a very well-tempered and friendly person who generally makes allies rather than enemies, but bythe same token she's definitely no firebrand.

If no confidencee are playing kabuke, then there's room for negotiation. Once the hardliners formally absolve themselves of responsibility the deal, its feasible for them to reluctantly support it in order to prevent the only alternative of Corbyn unleashing the communist apocalypse.

Rugian
Member Thu Nov 15 15:22:11
I guess my point is there's no reason to state what's already self-evident. The reasons why the proposal looks the way it does have been thoroughly covered, and I dont see how the government survives a no-deal scenario. Fear of Corbyn will ultimately prevail.

Seb
Member Thu Nov 15 15:42:18
Rugian:

Seriously, you must be on another planet.

She's famous for being cold, unlikeable, and distant.

Your reading is wrong though. A labour govt is temporary, association with a bad brexit* is forever.

If you are not a minister and in a safe seat, do you care if Corbyn wins an election more than playing to your faction?

* Bad being different if you are remain or leave

Rugian
Member Thu Nov 15 16:22:06
Seb,

Sociable, collaborative and amenable all mean different things. If we're talking about reputation, she's well known for loyalty and doesn't tend to start shit with colleagues. That's not the same thing as saying that she attends Etonian keggers and is is easy to work with.

Or are you arguing that she got to where she is by being a frequent bridge-burner?

Labour victory, besides the reversion of the UK to the 1970s, means that they will be in charge of negotiating a new deal with the EU following the no-deal crash out. Maybe you're right on this, but I dont see how willfully bringing Corbyn to power helps their cause more than backing a shit half measure.

Really, I dont see how your argument is consistent with your earlier point in this thread. If hardliners are playing theater, then why would they be legitimately attempting to destroy the government?

show deleted posts

Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 03:45:06 So, a small dispatch from the UK where tribal conflict continues to wrack the minority government dominated by the countries largest ethnic group. The government's minister for brexit has quit over the fact the PM and the Cabinet have "reached a consensus" to back the deal he himself negotiated. Note, consensus is the word you use when you can't say unanimous. This would be so much better if I hadn't immediately sold by new employers to go back and do brexit stuff.
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 15 10:07:58 Multiple ministers quitting now. Is this finally it for May?
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 15 10:16:44 On a side note, for a pooitician the former minister for Work and Pensions is a real hottie. http://www.pinterest.com/pin/300333868881313132/ I'd like to take her out on a date and exploit the working classes, if you know what I mean ;)
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 10:43:03 She's called a press conference. I think the 1922 committee have decided to knife her - she's probably going to either resign or fight a leadership challenge. Odds on a new referendum high.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 10:44:00 Odds on no deal also very high.
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 15 10:58:23 Oh shit, Rees-Mogg filed for no confidence. If he's not posturing this is gonna be fun.
Average Ameriacn Member	Thu Nov 15 11:02:46 Watching it live to see the historical moment when she announces that the UK will become part of the USA and Trump will become President of the UK: http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-46200010
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 15 11:03:59 ^thx for live link
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 11:06:58 So if she contests, she will likely win, with soft brexit backing, which gives her a strong mandate to ignore brexiteers during the second phase of negotiations on the future relationship. Brexiteers no confidencing her as Tory leader now is threatre and tends to indicate that think that Mays deal will be the only viable basis for the future relationship after transition or May's deal will get voted down in favour of a new ref with high probability of remain. With no prospect of getting what they want for the long term, they need to put up a show of distancing themselves from May's brexit.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 11:29:31 She's not going.
Average Ameriacn Member	Thu Nov 15 11:30:22 She hasn't mentioned Trump yet?!
jergul large member	Thu Nov 15 11:38:22 May is doing a good news conferance so far. Remembering that it comes back to back on what has to have been a very draining series of meeting.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 11:44:16 Which meeting? Cabinet was yesterday
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 11:45:27 This is classic may. Said nothing. Didn't address the elephant in the room. Clearly only done to ensure 6pm news leads with pictures of her looking prime ministerial rather than footage from commons of hey being grilled.
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 15 11:47:33 Yeah, she's being really noncommittal and saying nothing. Like a true politician.
jergul large member	Thu Nov 15 11:48:57 Seb I was not commenting on the substance. There cannot be any as we all know. Just her form.
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 15 11:51:36 I mean, what else can you expect from her? "Yes, I would absolutely resign if the House of Commons voted for a second referendum."
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 11:59:39 Rugian: A more head on addressing of the arguments against her deal and a full throated rebuttal of them. A direct attack on those undermining a deal and their recklessness. It's so tepid. Not conciliatory. Not coming out fighting. Just meh. Maybotic.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 12:01:06 John major did a back me or sack me move under similar circumstances.
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 15 13:49:36 Meh, that's just who she is. Bad quality for campaigning, good for collegiality. Going with a "fuck or walk" attitude would be supremely dangerous and I'm sure May is rather skittish when it comes to elections. If it does get to that point it would probably be because she thought it was her absolute last resort.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 14:15:14 Rugian: She's famously uncolegiate. And if you count up declared no confidence and resignations, she can't get her vote past parliament.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 14:25:29 She's at that point where she needs to do something to change the game.
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 15 15:08:29 Seb, Collegial may be the wrong word. She's a very well-tempered and friendly person who generally makes allies rather than enemies, but bythe same token she's definitely no firebrand. If no confidencee are playing kabuke, then there's room for negotiation. Once the hardliners formally absolve themselves of responsibility the deal, its feasible for them to reluctantly support it in order to prevent the only alternative of Corbyn unleashing the communist apocalypse.
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 15 15:22:11 I guess my point is there's no reason to state what's already self-evident. The reasons why the proposal looks the way it does have been thoroughly covered, and I dont see how the government survives a no-deal scenario. Fear of Corbyn will ultimately prevail.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 15 15:42:18 Rugian: Seriously, you must be on another planet. She's famous for being cold, unlikeable, and distant. Your reading is wrong though. A labour govt is temporary, association with a bad brexit* is forever. If you are not a minister and in a safe seat, do you care if Corbyn wins an election more than playing to your faction? * Bad being different if you are remain or leave
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 15 16:22:06 Seb, Sociable, collaborative and amenable all mean different things. If we're talking about reputation, she's well known for loyalty and doesn't tend to start shit with colleagues. That's not the same thing as saying that she attends Etonian keggers and is is easy to work with. Or are you arguing that she got to where she is by being a frequent bridge-burner? Labour victory, besides the reversion of the UK to the 1970s, means that they will be in charge of negotiating a new deal with the EU following the no-deal crash out. Maybe you're right on this, but I dont see how willfully bringing Corbyn to power helps their cause more than backing a shit half measure. Really, I dont see how your argument is consistent with your earlier point in this thread. If hardliners are playing theater, then why would they be legitimately attempting to destroy the government?
	show deleted posts

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