Utopia Talk / Politics / Ivanka's a criminal

tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Dec 14 19:11:25 Ivanka Negotiated Trump Hotel Venue Rental to Inaugural Committee http://www...tee-trump-hotel-raised-1259951 wholly inappropriate start to finish... obviously the inaugural committee would not hunt for a best value location particularly disgusting (from article): "The original price was unclear, but Damelincourt [of hotel] offered a new $175,000-per-day rate for the Presidential Ballroom and other meeting rooms, and $700,000 for four days. ... Wolkoff [of inauguration] wrote that the inaugural committee had been offered other event spaces free of charge, saying, “I understand that compared to the original pricing this is great but we should look at the whole context.” Wolkoff asked for a daily rate of $85,000. " so she's saying the 'new' $175,000 offer ($700k for 4 days... that's no discount at all) was 'great' compared to the original quote but still more than double what she hoped for (and about 175x more than i would've expected) so how demonically evil was the first quote i wonder... plus she's saying some places offered space free so if it wasn't Trump's hotel they would've never paid that shake-down at all
obaminated Member	Fri Dec 14 21:03:12 Ivanka doesn't know how to shop for bargains!!! REEEEEEEEEE
kargen Member	Fri Dec 14 21:11:23 That's good business right there.
kargen Member	Fri Dec 14 21:15:47 and now that I have read the article it sounds like she just suggested one person contact another person to talk prices.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Dec 14 21:38:40 so no problem with $175,000 a day for some rooms to hold events to honor Trump? you could buy multiple homes for that price... its so ridiculous I will assume there's some error, but even with the error it will still be absurd and that $ is being paid to Trump... who isn't even allowed to be leasing that property as a government official... he shouldn't be profiting at all off these events and forgive me if I don't trust the spokesman for Ivanka's lawyer about her involvement we know Donald lies to his own lawyer and his lawyer lies to the public... now we have someone even more removed
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Dec 14 21:46:03 during the campaign there were also reports of the Trump's price-gouging charities who used their properties for events pattern
Dukhat Member	Fri Dec 14 22:50:33 Trump Supporter: "He's a businessman. He's going to make money. Ain't nothing more American than making a healthy profit."
kargen Member	Sat Dec 15 16:01:13 Where did I say there was no problem with the price? Again this is you wanting someone to be guilty so with no evidence you just call them guilty. The courts decided long ago that Trump the brand and President Trump are separate entities. The brand can profit while he is in office.
American Democrat Member	Sun Dec 16 06:32:15 "The brand can profit while he is in office." Yeah you've said this before. However, this isn't so much about the brand but more specifically his company. Not "trump steaks."
American Democrat Member	Sun Dec 16 06:45:41 You are neglecting to look into the ethical portion of and the potential tax violates that is related to the matter. 1.) Still to this day there has been no official tax releases from Trump, who declared he would. 2.) In this particular situation along with official statement from Ivanka's lawyer, does not exactly clear her from this impropriety. The final result of the price is unknown and that is what needs to be discovered. Because if it is above the market rate, they clearly violated tax laws and more probable than not used it for their profits. But sure, continue your defense of "courts said this..." But this isn't the same as what you are referencing.
kargen Member	Sun Dec 16 14:33:58 Ethical and legal are not the same thing and you haven't been paying attention. I've admitted many times that President Trump has done has done some unethical things. And his hotels are a part of the Trump Brand.
hood Member	Sun Dec 16 14:46:39 There's a difference between people wanting to visit a trump hotel because of trump being president and the Trump admin trying to guide money to Trump hotels at above market rate. Not that kargen would ever be smart enough to figure this out on his own.
American Democrat Member	Sun Dec 16 16:30:36 "Ethical and legal are not the same thing and you haven't been paying attention. I've admitted many times that President Trump has done has done some unethical things." And apparently you completely ignore the legal aspect of as I've indicated in my post. Either is because you cannot understand, or you at your convenience ignore critical details to go out of your way to defend Trump. "And his hotels are a part of the Trump Brand. " Some, not all.
American Democrat Member	Sun Dec 16 16:31:45 Also, really is besides the point considering the other issues that were pointed out that you want to avoid.
kargen Member	Sun Dec 16 21:07:15 "The final result of the price is unknown and that is what needs to be discovered. Because if it is above the market rate, they clearly violated tax laws and more probable than not used it for their profits. " If they report the income and pay tax on it then no it is not a tax crime. If it is price gouging that is on the manager or whoever made the deal. According to the article Ivanka's role in this was introducing those involved to each other. And yeah Hood I know the difference but I also read the article. Maybe you should have.
hood Member	Sun Dec 16 21:19:37 "According to the article Ivanka's role in this was introducing those involved to each other." Doesn't really matter. She was an exec vp. She bears responsibility.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Dec 16 21:42:51 Ivanka was one recipient of the "hey, are you sure you want to gouge us this much? it will look bad" email she's involved it's not like the spokesman for her lawyer would say 'hell yeah, she was all for the completely unethical behavior, as all Trumps are in all situations, as is shown repeatedly"
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Dec 16 21:56:34 i believe the crime issue AD referring to is how you have to pay 'fair market value' when using campaign donations
kargen Member	Mon Dec 17 03:06:20 yes and again nothing shows it was Ivanka that charged more than fair market value if more than fair market value was actually paid. This is still simply you wanting someone to be guilty so you decide with no evidence that they are guilty. What crime has she committed?
American Democrat Member	Mon Dec 17 04:49:27 Because you have complete insight to the matter itself to make that determination? This is still simply you not wanting someone to be guild so you decide with no evidence they are not guilty. See how this works?
American Democrat Member	Mon Dec 17 05:10:51 guild = guilty*
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Dec 17 11:13:54 i'm fine w/ it being yet another high up Trump employee being a criminal although i would be surprised if the hotel director got no authorization & also completely ignored Ivanka (according to his twitter, he still has his job) we'll see more of the facts at some point hopefully
kargen Member	Mon Dec 17 15:50:22 "Because you have complete insight to the matter itself to make that determination? This is still simply you not wanting someone to be guild so you decide with no evidence they are not guilty." No this is me reading the article and seeing nothing in it that supports the claims tumbleweed is making. Personally I really don't care one way or the other if Ivanka or others go to jail or face other penalties. If she committed a crime then she should face the consequences. And yeah Tumbleweed I'm with you on hoping some facts come out. As of now really not much to see.
jergul large member	Mon Dec 17 23:50:53 The campaign would be the one committing the crime for moving beyond market value.
hood Member	Tue Dec 18 00:08:19 And Ivanka was the senior vp in charge.
jergul large member	Tue Dec 18 04:24:26 Hood Senior VP of the campaign? Rgr.
kargen Member	Tue Dec 18 23:59:56 "The campaign would be the one committing the crime for moving beyond market value." I don't see how that can be. Most of the time you can't expect the people that make those decisions to be up on current market value. It might be a crime if someone working with the campaign knew about the high mark-ups and was complacent with that knowledge but so far no evidence pointing to that.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Dec 19 00:23:08 we already know both sides knew it was crazy the woman in charge of paying is the one who sent the 'hey, this will look bad' email to Ivanka & the hotel manager who already apparently had dropped an insane gouge price to just an obnoxious gouge price
jergul large member	Wed Dec 19 05:00:16 Kargen It can be. But it is a court's call.
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